Re: [PD] changing timestamp of noteout midi message

[Roman Haefeli]

On Fre, 2013-02-01 at 02:19 +0100, Panagiotis Melidis wrote:
> hello all.
> 
> 
> i revive this thread to ask you if there is any way that i can edit a
> noteout message _after_ it leaves PD, in order to add the desired
> timestamp. midipipe in the end didn't work, so i am looking for
> alternatives, to no avail so far.

I still think you are looking for the solution at the wrong layer. As
far as I understand, Pd's MIDI classes like [noteout] implement the
plain MIDI protocol (which - as said before - doesn't know anything
about timestamps) and do not take into account specific features of
specific MIDI backends on specific OS'. So unless you find someone who
is willing to write a specific Pd-MIDI driver for the IAC bus (or
whatever the specific MIDI backend is), your better bet is to look for a
solution outside of Pd. 

Just in case nobody else on this list comes up with a practical
solution, make sure to also ask on a forum or ML about "IAC bus" if
something like that exists. I'd imagine that Pd is not the only program
sending MIDI messages not tagged with a timestamp, though that is just a
wild guess.

Roman



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Re: [PD] changing timestamp of noteout midi message

[Panagiotis Melidis]

hello all.

i revive this thread to ask you if there is any way that i can edit a
noteout message _after_ it leaves PD, in order to add the desired
timestamp. midipipe in the end didn't work, so i am looking for
alternatives, to no avail so far.


=
Panagiotis Melidis

http://www.larrygus.com
http://facebook.com/larrygus
http://twitter.com/larrygus
http://larrygus.tumblr.com


On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Panagiotis Melidis wrote:

> thanks a lot for your replies!!
>
> for now, i found a solution, which is this little application called
> MidiPipe http://subtlesoft.square7.net/SubtleSoft/MidiPipe.html, which
> helps you modify the midi messages, and i just added a sort of 10ms delay,
> which in turn forces the message to carry the timestamp.
>
>
> =
> Panagiotis Melidis
>
> http://www.larrygus.com
> http://facebook.com/larrygus
> http://twitter.com/larrygus
> http://larrygus.tumblr.com
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 4:12 PM, Roman Haefeli  wrote:
>
>> On Die, 2013-01-15 at 15:57 +0100, Panagiotis Melidis wrote:
>> > thanks a lot for your answer martin!
>> >
>> >
>> > so in that case, is there any way to modify the noteout object in
>> > order to add a timestamp? otherwise i should find a way to add the
>> > timestamp _after_ the message is sent from noteout, right?
>>
>> From what I know - and probably what Martin meant before - there is no
>> way to specify a timestamp in MIDI as the MIDI protocol simply has no
>> timestamp defined. When timestamps are involved in your problem, they
>> most likely are not implemented on the MIDI level, but somewhere else.
>>
>> As there are no timestamps in MIDI, it is unlikely that your problem can
>> be solved by hacking [noteout].
>>
>> The concept of timestamps in your problem seems specific to the IAC bus
>> you mentioned. In the link you posted I read:
>>
>> "A hacky workaround would be to route the MIDI bus to an intermediate
>> program that echoes the MIDI packets to another IAC bus but adds
>> timestamps."
>>
>> Have you tried that? (I must say I don't know anything about IAC bus nor
>> any specifics about MIDI in OS X)
>>
>> Roman
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > =
>> > Panagiotis Melidis
>> >
>> > http://www.larrygus.com
>> > http://facebook.com/larrygus
>> > http://twitter.com/larrygus
>> > http://larrygus.tumblr.com
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Martin Peach
>> >  wrote:
>> > There is no timestamp in the MIDI spec. A noteout message
>> > sends three bytes: status+channel, number, velocity.
>> >
>> >
>> > Martin
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 2013-01-15 08:02, Panagiotis Melidis wrote:
>> >
>> > as it seems the problem would be solved if i could
>> > find a way to add a
>> > timestamp each time noteout sends a message... but is
>> > there a way to do
>> > that? should i modify the noteout source code?
>> >
>> > is there maybe another way to send timestamped midi
>> > messages from pure data?
>> >
>> > thanks again!
>> >
>> >
>> > =
>> > Panagiotis Melidis
>> >
>> > http://www.larrygus.com
>> > http://facebook.com/larrygus
>> > http://twitter.com/larrygus
>> > http://larrygus.tumblr.com
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Panagiotis Melidis
>> > > >
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> > hey people!
>> >
>> > i am working on osx, ver 10.8.2
>> >
>> > i am sending noteout messages from PD over to
>> > Ableton Live via the
>> > IAC driver, but after a certain point ableton live
>> > ignores the
>> > messages, and this has to do with the fact that
>> > live itself is
>> > getting confused by the timestamps.
>> >
>> > on the ableton forums people found that the
>> > solution is to add the
>> > timestamp with the midi message, and some people
>> > managed to achieve
>> > it for C++ and Python as explained in those two
>> > posts;
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?p=1426466#p1426466
>> >
>> >
>> https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?p=1347051#p1347051
>> >
>> > so, i am struggling to find a way to change the
>> > timestamp of a
>> > noteout message but i can't do it.
>> >
>> > any ideas?
>> >
>> > hope i was clear enough :)
>> > =
>> > Panagiotis Melidis
>> >
>> > http://www.larrygus.com
>> > http://facebook.com/larr

Re: [PD] changing timestamp of noteout midi message

[Panagiotis Melidis]

thanks a lot for your replies!!

for now, i found a solution, which is this little application called
MidiPipe http://subtlesoft.square7.net/SubtleSoft/MidiPipe.html, which
helps you modify the midi messages, and i just added a sort of 10ms delay,
which in turn forces the message to carry the timestamp.


=
Panagiotis Melidis

http://www.larrygus.com
http://facebook.com/larrygus
http://twitter.com/larrygus
http://larrygus.tumblr.com


On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 4:12 PM, Roman Haefeli  wrote:

> On Die, 2013-01-15 at 15:57 +0100, Panagiotis Melidis wrote:
> > thanks a lot for your answer martin!
> >
> >
> > so in that case, is there any way to modify the noteout object in
> > order to add a timestamp? otherwise i should find a way to add the
> > timestamp _after_ the message is sent from noteout, right?
>
> From what I know - and probably what Martin meant before - there is no
> way to specify a timestamp in MIDI as the MIDI protocol simply has no
> timestamp defined. When timestamps are involved in your problem, they
> most likely are not implemented on the MIDI level, but somewhere else.
>
> As there are no timestamps in MIDI, it is unlikely that your problem can
> be solved by hacking [noteout].
>
> The concept of timestamps in your problem seems specific to the IAC bus
> you mentioned. In the link you posted I read:
>
> "A hacky workaround would be to route the MIDI bus to an intermediate
> program that echoes the MIDI packets to another IAC bus but adds
> timestamps."
>
> Have you tried that? (I must say I don't know anything about IAC bus nor
> any specifics about MIDI in OS X)
>
> Roman
>
>
>
>
>
> > =
> > Panagiotis Melidis
> >
> > http://www.larrygus.com
> > http://facebook.com/larrygus
> > http://twitter.com/larrygus
> > http://larrygus.tumblr.com
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Martin Peach
> >  wrote:
> > There is no timestamp in the MIDI spec. A noteout message
> > sends three bytes: status+channel, number, velocity.
> >
> >
> > Martin
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2013-01-15 08:02, Panagiotis Melidis wrote:
> >
> > as it seems the problem would be solved if i could
> > find a way to add a
> > timestamp each time noteout sends a message... but is
> > there a way to do
> > that? should i modify the noteout source code?
> >
> > is there maybe another way to send timestamped midi
> > messages from pure data?
> >
> > thanks again!
> >
> >
> > =
> > Panagiotis Melidis
> >
> > http://www.larrygus.com
> > http://facebook.com/larrygus
> > http://twitter.com/larrygus
> > http://larrygus.tumblr.com
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Panagiotis Melidis
> >  >
> > > wrote:
> >
> > hey people!
> >
> > i am working on osx, ver 10.8.2
> >
> > i am sending noteout messages from PD over to
> > Ableton Live via the
> > IAC driver, but after a certain point ableton live
> > ignores the
> > messages, and this has to do with the fact that
> > live itself is
> > getting confused by the timestamps.
> >
> > on the ableton forums people found that the
> > solution is to add the
> > timestamp with the midi message, and some people
> > managed to achieve
> > it for C++ and Python as explained in those two
> > posts;
> >
> >
> >
> https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?p=1426466#p1426466
> >
> >
> https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?p=1347051#p1347051
> >
> > so, i am struggling to find a way to change the
> > timestamp of a
> > noteout message but i can't do it.
> >
> > any ideas?
> >
> > hope i was clear enough :)
> > =
> > Panagiotis Melidis
> >
> > http://www.larrygus.com
> > http://facebook.com/larrygus
> > http://twitter.com/larrygus
> > http://larrygus.tumblr.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
> > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
> > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>
>
>
> ___

Re: [PD] changing timestamp of noteout midi message

[Roman Haefeli]

On Die, 2013-01-15 at 15:57 +0100, Panagiotis Melidis wrote:
> thanks a lot for your answer martin!
> 
> 
> so in that case, is there any way to modify the noteout object in
> order to add a timestamp? otherwise i should find a way to add the
> timestamp _after_ the message is sent from noteout, right?

>From what I know - and probably what Martin meant before - there is no
way to specify a timestamp in MIDI as the MIDI protocol simply has no
timestamp defined. When timestamps are involved in your problem, they
most likely are not implemented on the MIDI level, but somewhere else.

As there are no timestamps in MIDI, it is unlikely that your problem can
be solved by hacking [noteout]. 

The concept of timestamps in your problem seems specific to the IAC bus
you mentioned. In the link you posted I read:

"A hacky workaround would be to route the MIDI bus to an intermediate
program that echoes the MIDI packets to another IAC bus but adds
timestamps."

Have you tried that? (I must say I don't know anything about IAC bus nor
any specifics about MIDI in OS X)

Roman





> =
> Panagiotis Melidis
> 
> http://www.larrygus.com
> http://facebook.com/larrygus
> http://twitter.com/larrygus
> http://larrygus.tumblr.com
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Martin Peach
>  wrote:
> There is no timestamp in the MIDI spec. A noteout message
> sends three bytes: status+channel, number, velocity.
> 
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
> 
> On 2013-01-15 08:02, Panagiotis Melidis wrote:
> 
> as it seems the problem would be solved if i could
> find a way to add a
> timestamp each time noteout sends a message... but is
> there a way to do
> that? should i modify the noteout source code?
> 
> is there maybe another way to send timestamped midi
> messages from pure data?
> 
> thanks again!
> 
> 
> =
> Panagiotis Melidis
> 
> http://www.larrygus.com
> http://facebook.com/larrygus
> http://twitter.com/larrygus
> http://larrygus.tumblr.com
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Panagiotis Melidis
>  
> > wrote:
> 
> hey people!
> 
> i am working on osx, ver 10.8.2
> 
> i am sending noteout messages from PD over to
> Ableton Live via the
> IAC driver, but after a certain point ableton live
> ignores the
> messages, and this has to do with the fact that
> live itself is
> getting confused by the timestamps.
> 
> on the ableton forums people found that the
> solution is to add the
> timestamp with the midi message, and some people
> managed to achieve
> it for C++ and Python as explained in those two
> posts;
> 
> 
> https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?p=1426466#p1426466
> 
> https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?p=1347051#p1347051
> 
> so, i am struggling to find a way to change the
> timestamp of a
> noteout message but i can't do it.
> 
> any ideas?
> 
> hope i was clear enough :)
> =
> Panagiotis Melidis
> 
> http://www.larrygus.com
> http://facebook.com/larrygus
> http://twitter.com/larrygus
> http://larrygus.tumblr.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list



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Re: [PD] changing timestamp of noteout midi message

[Panagiotis Melidis]

thanks a lot for your answer martin!

so in that case, is there any way to modify the noteout object in order to
add a timestamp? otherwise i should find a way to add the timestamp _after_
the message is sent from noteout, right?


=
Panagiotis Melidis

http://www.larrygus.com
http://facebook.com/larrygus
http://twitter.com/larrygus
http://larrygus.tumblr.com


On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Martin Peach wrote:

> There is no timestamp in the MIDI spec. A noteout message sends three
> bytes: status+channel, number, velocity.
>
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> On 2013-01-15 08:02, Panagiotis Melidis wrote:
>
>> as it seems the problem would be solved if i could find a way to add a
>> timestamp each time noteout sends a message... but is there a way to do
>> that? should i modify the noteout source code?
>>
>> is there maybe another way to send timestamped midi messages from pure
>> data?
>>
>> thanks again!
>>
>>
>> =
>> Panagiotis Melidis
>>
>> http://www.larrygus.com
>> http://facebook.com/larrygus
>> http://twitter.com/larrygus
>> http://larrygus.tumblr.com
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Panagiotis Melidis > > wrote:
>>
>> hey people!
>>
>> i am working on osx, ver 10.8.2
>>
>> i am sending noteout messages from PD over to Ableton Live via the
>> IAC driver, but after a certain point ableton live ignores the
>> messages, and this has to do with the fact that live itself is
>> getting confused by the timestamps.
>>
>> on the ableton forums people found that the solution is to add the
>> timestamp with the midi message, and some people managed to achieve
>> it for C++ and Python as explained in those two posts;
>>
>> 
>> https://forum.ableton.com/**viewtopic.php?p=1426466#**p1426466
>> 
>> https://forum.ableton.com/**viewtopic.php?p=1347051#**p1347051
>>
>> so, i am struggling to find a way to change the timestamp of a
>> noteout message but i can't do it.
>>
>> any ideas?
>>
>> hope i was clear enough :)
>> =
>> Panagiotis Melidis
>>
>> http://www.larrygus.com
>> http://facebook.com/larrygus
>> http://twitter.com/larrygus
>> http://larrygus.tumblr.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __**_
>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/**
>> listinfo/pd-list 
>>
>>
>
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Re: [PD] changing timestamp of noteout midi message

[Martin Peach]

There is no timestamp in the MIDI spec. A noteout message sends three 
bytes: status+channel, number, velocity.



Martin


On 2013-01-15 08:02, Panagiotis Melidis wrote:

as it seems the problem would be solved if i could find a way to add a
timestamp each time noteout sends a message... but is there a way to do
that? should i modify the noteout source code?

is there maybe another way to send timestamped midi messages from pure data?

thanks again!


=
Panagiotis Melidis

http://www.larrygus.com
http://facebook.com/larrygus
http://twitter.com/larrygus
http://larrygus.tumblr.com


On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Panagiotis Melidis mailto:pmeli...@gmail.com>> wrote:

hey people!

i am working on osx, ver 10.8.2

i am sending noteout messages from PD over to Ableton Live via the
IAC driver, but after a certain point ableton live ignores the
messages, and this has to do with the fact that live itself is
getting confused by the timestamps.

on the ableton forums people found that the solution is to add the
timestamp with the midi message, and some people managed to achieve
it for C++ and Python as explained in those two posts;

https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?p=1426466#p1426466
https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?p=1347051#p1347051

so, i am struggling to find a way to change the timestamp of a
noteout message but i can't do it.

any ideas?

hope i was clear enough :)
=
Panagiotis Melidis

http://www.larrygus.com
http://facebook.com/larrygus
http://twitter.com/larrygus
http://larrygus.tumblr.com




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Re: [PD] changing timestamp of noteout midi message

[Panagiotis Melidis]

as it seems the problem would be solved if i could find a way to add a
timestamp each time noteout sends a message... but is there a way to do
that? should i modify the noteout source code?

is there maybe another way to send timestamped midi messages from pure data?

thanks again!


=
Panagiotis Melidis

http://www.larrygus.com
http://facebook.com/larrygus
http://twitter.com/larrygus
http://larrygus.tumblr.com


On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 1:21 PM, Panagiotis Melidis wrote:

> hey people!
>
> i am working on osx, ver 10.8.2
>
> i am sending noteout messages from PD over to Ableton Live via the IAC
> driver, but after a certain point ableton live ignores the messages, and
> this has to do with the fact that live itself is getting confused by the
> timestamps.
>
> on the ableton forums people found that the solution is to add the
> timestamp with the midi message, and some people managed to achieve it for
> C++ and Python as explained in those two posts;
>
> https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?p=1426466#p1426466
> https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?p=1347051#p1347051
>
> so, i am struggling to find a way to change the timestamp of a noteout
> message but i can't do it.
>
> any ideas?
>
> hope i was clear enough :)
>  =
> Panagiotis Melidis
>
> http://www.larrygus.com
> http://facebook.com/larrygus
> http://twitter.com/larrygus
> http://larrygus.tumblr.com
>
___
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UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
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[PD] changing timestamp of noteout midi message

[Panagiotis Melidis]

hey people!

i am working on osx, ver 10.8.2

i am sending noteout messages from PD over to Ableton Live via the IAC
driver, but after a certain point ableton live ignores the messages, and
this has to do with the fact that live itself is getting confused by the
timestamps.

on the ableton forums people found that the solution is to add the
timestamp with the midi message, and some people managed to achieve it for
C++ and Python as explained in those two posts;

https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?p=1426466#p1426466
https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?p=1347051#p1347051

so, i am struggling to find a way to change the timestamp of a noteout
message but i can't do it.

any ideas?

hope i was clear enough :)
=
Panagiotis Melidis

http://www.larrygus.com
http://facebook.com/larrygus
http://twitter.com/larrygus
http://larrygus.tumblr.com
___
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