Abrupt death (Was: Re: [PD] up-down saw-wave)
On 22/11/2006, at 15.54, martin brinkmann wrote: sometimes, when i close the patch (especially when i have opend some subpatches before), not only the groovebox is closed, but also all other open windows + the pd application. Attached is a patch (with an abstraction) that, i think illustrates the problem Martin experiences. Following the procedure described in it will (says Hume knowing about the small set of empirical data i've experienced) crash Pd. I will add it to the tracker (shortly), if it's not know. t_abruptclose.pd Description: Binary data t_abs_gop.pd Description: Binary data ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] up-down saw-wave
Hans-Christoph Steiner ha scritto: On Nov 20, 2006, at 10:37 PM, Chris McCormick wrote: On Sun, Nov 19, 2006 at 03:40:51PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Nov 19, 2006, at 11:19 AM, derek holzer wrote: hard off wrote: ah thanks. a triangle oscillator is exactly what i need. cheers. Keep in mind that none of these are anti-aliased AFAIK, so you could easily get aliased harmonic frequencies. There's a few threads in the archive about avoiding this. My personal solution is to use [plugin~] with the BLOP LADSPA oscillator plugins. I wonder how hard it would be to implement the BLOP LADSPA algorithm in Pd, so that there would be native anti-aliased oscilators. Its something that Pd sorely needs. I am a big fan of these ones, by Günter: http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2006-05/038681.html There are so many great patches posted to this list, there should be a better way to search the list for patches. Any perl, python, etc master want to write a script to pull out all of the patches from the list archives? That would be amazing. http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/attachments/ ? well, pulling that url with wget -r (apart of generating a LOT of traffic) would result in a big mess of unordered attachments but at least it is a start -- Federico ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] up-down saw-wave
Hallo, Chris McCormick hat gesagt: // Chris McCormick wrote: I wonder how hard it would be to implement the BLOP LADSPA algorithm in Pd, so that there would be native anti-aliased oscilators. Its something that Pd sorely needs. I am a big fan of these ones, by Günter: http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2006-05/038681.html So juicy. Another way to get alias-free waveforms is through summation formulas. Attached is an implementation of the gbuzz opcode. Note that this isn't actually bandlimited, but when choosing the harmonicity value a not too high, high frequencies have reasonably low amplitue ... and it's a patch I had here. The classical paper on this is James A. Moorer's The Synthesis of Complex Audio Spectra by Means of Discrete Summation Formulas available here: http://www.jamminpower.com/main/articles.jsp Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__ #N canvas 384 121 780 602 10; #X obj 257 361 +~; #X obj 132 89 phasor~; #X obj 132 112 *~ 1024; #X obj 257 160 tabread4~ \$0-cos; #X obj 131 350 tabread4~ \$0-sin; #X obj 132 421 /~; #X obj 132 132 +~ 1; #X obj 480 250 *~ 1024; #X obj 480 278 +~ 1; #X obj 410 311 tabread4~ \$0-1+a2; #X obj 544 310 tabread4~ \$0-norm; #X obj 133 444 *~; #X obj 380 258 *~ -2; #X obj 257 311 *~; #X obj 134 473 outlet~; #X obj 379 45 inlet~; #X obj 489 66 table \$0-1+a2 1027; #X obj 489 85 table \$0-norm 1027; #X obj 132 46 inlet~; #X text 133 503 out = sqrt[(1-a^2)(1+a^2)] * [sin(x) / (1+a^2 - 2a*cos(x))] ; #X obj 489 105 table \$0-cos 1027; #X obj 489 127 table \$0-sin 1027; #N canvas 0 0 702 442 init-tables 0; #X obj 125 75 until; #X obj 125 104 f 0; #X obj 153 105 + 1; #X msg 164 75 0; #X obj 125 53 t a b; #X obj 55 204 expr 1+$f1*$f1; #X obj 125 150 / 1024; #X obj 125 127 t a a; #X obj 55 234 tabwrite \$0-1+a2; #X obj 125 12 loadbang; #X obj 547 122 s \$0-cos; #X obj 509 175 s \$0-sin; #X msg 509 148 sinesum 1024 1; #X msg 547 97 cosinesum 1024 0 1; #X obj 509 67 loadbang; #X obj 188 236 tabwrite \$0-norm; #X msg 125 33 1027; #X obj 188 206 expr sqrt((1-$f1*$f1)/(1+$f1*$f1)); #X text 79 350 writes f(a) = 1+a^2 rsp. normalization into tables; #X connect 0 0 1 0; #X connect 1 0 2 0; #X connect 1 0 7 0; #X connect 2 0 1 1; #X connect 3 0 1 1; #X connect 4 0 0 0; #X connect 4 1 3 0; #X connect 5 0 8 0; #X connect 6 0 5 0; #X connect 6 0 17 0; #X connect 7 0 6 0; #X connect 7 1 8 1; #X connect 7 1 15 1; #X connect 9 0 16 0; #X connect 12 0 11 0; #X connect 13 0 10 0; #X connect 14 0 13 0; #X connect 14 0 12 0; #X connect 16 0 4 0; #X connect 17 0 15 0; #X restore 489 45 pd init-tables; #X text 131 550 cf: James A. Moorer: Synthesis of Complex Audio Spectra and Dodge/Jerse: Computer Music page 163f; #X connect 0 0 5 1; #X connect 1 0 2 0; #X connect 2 0 6 0; #X connect 3 0 13 0; #X connect 4 0 5 0; #X connect 5 0 11 0; #X connect 6 0 3 0; #X connect 6 0 4 0; #X connect 7 0 8 0; #X connect 8 0 9 0; #X connect 8 0 10 0; #X connect 9 0 0 1; #X connect 10 0 11 1; #X connect 11 0 14 0; #X connect 12 0 13 1; #X connect 13 0 0 0; #X connect 15 0 7 0; #X connect 15 0 12 0; #X connect 18 0 1 0; #N canvas 274 60 691 629 10; #X floatatom 111 36 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X obj 111 484 ezdac~; #X obj 238 478 tabwrite~ \$0-scope; #N canvas 0 0 450 300 (subpatch) 0; #X array \$0-scope 4410 float 2; #X coords 0 1 4409 -1 200 140 1; #X restore 375 354 graph; #X obj 238 452 metro 100; #X obj 238 431 tgl 15 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 -1 1 1; #X obj 325 280 throw~ \$0-asig; #X obj 326 210 vline~; #X obj 326 82 b; #X obj 326 234 *~; #X obj 326 253 *~; #X obj 128 340 vline~; #X obj 128 364 *~; #X obj 128 383 *~; #X obj 112 418 *~; #X msg 128 319 0.9 100 \, 0.8 300 100 \, 0 1000 400; #X obj 111 63 mtof; #X obj 326 154 f; #X obj 360 81 hsl 128 15 0 0.9 0 0 empty empty empty -2 -8 0 10 -262144 -1 -1 12700 1; #X obj 357 111 moses 1; #X obj 111 168 gbuzz~; #X obj 149 134 catch~ \$0-asig; #X text 440 279 Harmonicity-Env; #X text 169 381 Amplitude-Env; #X text 428 113 don't go equal or over 1!; #X floatatom 365 135 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X msg 326 179 \$1 200 \, 0.1 1000 200; #X connect 0 0 8 0; #X connect 0 0 16 0; #X connect 4 0 2 0; #X connect 5 0 4 0; #X connect 7 0 9 0; #X connect 7 0 9 1; #X connect 8 0 15 0; #X connect 8 0 17 0; #X connect 9 0 10 0; #X connect 9 0 10 1; #X connect 10 0 6 0; #X connect 11 0 12 0; #X connect 11 0 12 1; #X connect 12 0 13 0; #X connect 12 0 13 1; #X connect 13 0 14 1; #X connect 14 0 1 0; #X connect 14 0 1 1; #X connect 14 0 2 0; #X connect 15 0 11 0; #X connect 16 0 20 0; #X connect 17 0 26 0; #X connect 18 0 19 0; #X connect 19 0 17 1; #X connect 19 0 25 0; #X connect 20 0 14 0; #X connect 21 0 20 1; #X connect 26 0 7 0; ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] up-down saw-wave
you are right, and i should have written 'subtractive' instead of 'virtual analog' im not defending/attacking anything ... its just the fact that the analog cliped signal sounds much more convincing when comparing with digital hysteria best On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:07:27 +0100, martin brinkmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: threen wrote: nice indeed... but still, the attack on those synths/filters cant be compared with analog... . it is just my first, naive attempt to make such a synth in pd, and i have not cared at all for any authentic analog emulation. though i like the kind of 'rough' digital sound, i will probably try to make bandlimited oscs, use upsampling etc. in the future. bis denn! martin ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.fastmail.fm - A fast, anti-spam email service. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] up-down saw-wave
sorry, forgot Dr. James still existed. then what would we be refering to if he didnt. would that be understood as well and would that change the use of filter technics in conventional/commercial way On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 18:04:50 +0100, Steffen [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On 21/11/2006, at 2.18, threen wrote: sounds like afx analord... nice. nice indeed... but still, the attack on those synths/filters cant be compared with analog... Im sure Max Neupert was refering to Richard D. James/Aphex Twin/AFX's Analord records rather then analog synth (emulation). That might be well understood by all. best, steffen -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Accessible with your email software or over the web ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] up-down saw-wave
Sorry for being clumsy. why? you aren't. I write off-list since im not sure this is of anyones interest as such, why? its a bad idea. now im the bad guy... i havnt misread anything. just using this opportunity to make a little attemp to fish some sound aesthetic related issues up, especially in digital domain. no bite... I try to be nice, but clumsy can stop that alright. didnt expect you'll be so humble... sorry then... On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 20:38:47 +0100, Steffen [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On 23/11/2006, at 18.29, threen wrote: then what would we be refering to if he didnt. would that be understood as well and would that change the use of filter technics in conventional/commercial way You lost me. I just want to correct something. When i said might be understood by all i was just trying to say that what i pointed out, might be a known, trivial thing, and that the comment on the filters was not triggered by a miss read of analord to analog. I can just feel, this don't come out right. Basically i was just trying to make a catch all, such that i didn't necessarily insinuated that you infact did miss read, as it could well be that you didn't. Sorry for being clumsy. I write off-list since im not sure this is of anyones interest as such, i just wanted you to know what i meant. I try to be nice, but clumsy can stop that alright. Best, steffen -- http://www.fastmail.fm - The way an email service should be ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] up-down saw-wave
Frank Barknecht wrote: difference between both is illustrated in attached patch. thanks, ok, i think i will use metro in most future pd-sequencer patches, instead of my old phasor-method... it was a 'quick-and-dirty' solution anyway, since i have sampled the phasor with metro 3 or 2 and snapshot (so there would have been no benefit from the audio-phasor), i thougt something like the 200 hz 'control-rate a la reaktor' would be sufficient. maybe the main reason for using the phasor was, that i had read something about timing-issues with the metro object. (i can not recall it exactly...) bis denn! martin ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] up-down saw-wave
threen wrote: im not defending/attacking anything ... its just the fact that the analog cliped signal sounds much more convincing when comparing with digital hysteria hmm, yes, maybe. i think it depends on the context where the sound is used... btw: are there any good saturation/distortion patches? i have tried it with a table, but it souned not very convincing, so i have used simple clipping instead. bis denn! martin ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] up-down saw-wave
On Thu, 2006-11-23 at 21:57 +0100, martin brinkmann wrote: maybe the main reason for using the phasor was, that i had read something about timing-issues with the metro object. (i can not recall it exactly...) i heard also something about an issue with [metro] from max/msp users, something about that it has audible jitter. honestly i don't quite trusted these rumours, since i often experienced that people suspect a software to be buggy, but actually made the mistakes by themselves. but now i wonder, if there is really some flesh on these rumours. is there something wrong with metro, i never noticed myself? roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] up-down saw-wave
i prefer to clip with a tube amp or whatever outside digital media (which is good at other points) On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 22:01:15 +0100, martin brinkmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: threen wrote: im not defending/attacking anything ... its just the fact that the analog cliped signal sounds much more convincing when comparing with digital hysteria hmm, yes, maybe. i think it depends on the context where the sound is used... btw: are there any good saturation/distortion patches? i have tried it with a table, but it souned not very convincing, so i have used simple clipping instead. bis denn! martin ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Accessible with your email software or over the web ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] up-down saw-wave
On Nov 22, 2006, at 4:19 PM, martin brinkmann wrote: Steffen wrote: Works here too (osx i386 pd-extended). It was great fun trying to figure how they worked i the user end (i didn't complete, but got some stuff straight). thats good news, sice i tried it once with a nightly build of pd extended, and could not get the groovebox to work. it only produced a lot of '' expected but got bang error-messages, and since jack-audio-out did not work either i de-installd pd-extended, and went back to pd 0.39 (the one from the ubuntu 6.06 repository) It would be good to have bug reports in the bug tracker since we are working towards a release. .hc Terrorism is not an enemy. It cannot be defeated. It's a tactic. It's about as sensible to say we declare war on night attacks and expect we're going to win that war. We're not going to win the war on terrorism.- retired U.S. Army general, William Odom ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] up-down saw-wave
does anybody know how to make an up-down saw-wave ? phasor~ just ramps up and then goes straight back to 0, but i want something that ramps up then back down again. i know it's possible to use a [metro] and [line~] based solution, but that falls apart at high frequencies. is there a way to do this in the signal domain? ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] up-down saw-wave
Hallo, hard off hat gesagt: // hard off wrote: does anybody know how to make an up-down saw-wave ? phasor~ just ramps up and then goes straight back to 0, but i want something that ramps up then back down again. doc/3.audio.examples/J05.triangle.pd i know it's possible to use a [metro] and [line~] based solution, but that falls apart at high frequencies. You could use [vline~] instead and replace the metro, which has a lower limit for its period of 1ms, with a [delay]-based metro as attached, that can go as fast as you like. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__ #N canvas 0 0 450 300 10; #X obj 95 141 timer; #X obj 95 115 t b b; #X floatatom 95 167 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X obj 95 61 tgl 15 0 empty empty empty 0 -6 0 8 -262144 -1 -1 0 1 ; #X floatatom 181 63 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X obj 95 87 delmetro 0.01; #X connect 0 0 2 0; #X connect 1 0 0 0; #X connect 1 1 0 1; #X connect 3 0 5 0; #X connect 4 0 5 1; #X connect 5 0 1 0; #N canvas 254 119 439 347 10; #X obj 101 104 select 0 1; #X obj 101 53 inlet; #X obj 101 78 t a a; #X msg 101 126 stop; #X obj 100 256 outlet; #X obj 202 49 inlet; #X text 85 24 like [metro] \, only faster; #X obj 100 212 t b b; #X obj 130 232 del 0; #X obj 259 70 loadbang; #X obj 259 92 f \$1; #X obj 100 155 del; #X obj 100 188 spigot; #X obj 202 125 max 0.01; #X connect 0 0 3 0; #X connect 0 1 11 0; #X connect 1 0 2 0; #X connect 2 0 0 0; #X connect 2 1 12 1; #X connect 3 0 11 0; #X connect 5 0 13 0; #X connect 7 0 4 0; #X connect 7 1 8 0; #X connect 8 0 11 0; #X connect 9 0 10 0; #X connect 10 0 13 0; #X connect 11 0 12 0; #X connect 12 0 7 0; #X connect 13 0 11 1; ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] up-down saw-wave
Roman Haefeli a écrit : On Sun, 2006-11-19 at 12:27 +0100, cyrille henry wrote: hard off a écrit : does anybody know how to make an up-down saw-wave ? a triangle oscillator? phasor~ just ramps up and then goes straight back to 0, but i want something that ramps up then back down again. i know it's possible to use a [metro] and [line~] based solution, but that falls apart at high frequencies. is there a way to do this in the signal domain? phasor~ | -~ 0.5 | abs~ [abs~] is part of zexy. if you need a solution only with internals, see frank's solution. well, abs~ is now part of zexy abstraction. it's made with expr~. all this equation can be made with expr~. but using a table should be faster. cyrille | -~ 0.25 | *~ 4 cyrille ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Der fr�he Vogel f�ngt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] up-down saw-wave
ah thanks. a triangle oscillator is exactly what i need. cheers. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] up-down saw-wave
hard off wrote: ah thanks. a triangle oscillator is exactly what i need. cheers. Keep in mind that none of these are anti-aliased AFAIK, so you could easily get aliased harmonic frequencies. There's a few threads in the archive about avoiding this. My personal solution is to use [plugin~] with the BLOP LADSPA oscillator plugins. best, d. -- derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ---Oblique Strategy # 53: Do something boring ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] up-down saw-wave
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Nov 19, 2006, at 11:19 AM, derek holzer wrote: hard off wrote: ah thanks. a triangle oscillator is exactly what i need. cheers. Keep in mind that none of these are anti-aliased AFAIK, so you could easily get aliased harmonic frequencies. There's a few threads in the archive about avoiding this. My personal solution is to use [plugin~] with the BLOP LADSPA oscillator plugins. I wonder how hard it would be to implement the BLOP LADSPA algorithm in Pd, so that there would be native anti-aliased oscilators. Its something that Pd sorely needs. I made the [sqosc~] object to do band-limited pulse-width modulated square wave. (http://pure-data.cvs.sourceforge.net/pure-data/externals/mrpeach/sqosc~/) You can choose the bandwidth at creation time. It wouldn't be too hard to make it do triangle waves as well. Sine waves are naturally bandlimited if you keep them below 1/2 sampling frequency. Running everything through a few [lop~]s should work as well unless the aliasing has already been introduced, by a table lookup with a too-large stride, or something like that. Martin ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] up-down saw-wave
creb contains band-limited oscillators: [blosc~] .-j Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Nov 19, 2006, at 11:19 AM, derek holzer wrote: hard off wrote: ah thanks. a triangle oscillator is exactly what i need. cheers. Keep in mind that none of these are anti-aliased AFAIK, so you could easily get aliased harmonic frequencies. There's a few threads in the archive about avoiding this. My personal solution is to use [plugin~] with the BLOP LADSPA oscillator plugins. I wonder how hard it would be to implement the BLOP LADSPA algorithm in Pd, so that there would be native anti-aliased oscilators. Its something that Pd sorely needs. .hc ¡El pueblo unido jamás será vencido! ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
