Re: [PD] Google Summer of Code WIKI
Hallo Kyle! Please describe this, as you just did, again in the WIKI. I already added a little bit of technical describtion (as described by Tim) ! LG Georg There already is a jack VST and Audio Unit for OSX, that's not the issue. What I really want is to just be able to run one master app (my DAW) and have everything else loaded from there, so that I don't have to do the whole 30 mins of configuring and opening corresponding files and settings, stored in directories across the computer thing. It's a pain to have to adjust and load setting after setting when it could all be saved in a nice project file in a professional sequencer app. For those of us who like what Pd has to offer as a bus insert or midi filter or general audio swiss army knife, we don't want to deal with multiples of files all over the place in different spots, we just want to have a nice compact project space that contains everything in an intuitive way, so we can just touch and go, and save everything so that we can open the project back up again exactly how we left it, all automation and everything stored in the project. Managing automation in Pd has not been a quick and dirty thing for me, and I'd prefer to leave that task to software that I'm comfortable with. But to have a custom synth or effect or midi chain filter or integrated graphics show work seamlessly from my DAW once I load one single project file is the holy grail to me. Having 5 programs open and trying to wrangle the routing between them for a half hour to get a song playing is less than ideal. A Pluggo for Pd would help minimize the time and frustration of this by compressing it all into one file that references a bank of subordinate plugins. ~Kyle ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Google Summer of Code WIKI
On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 21:20 +0100, Tim Blechmann wrote: i've been changing some emails with stefano d'angelo, who is starting to write a plugin wrapper, which is supposed to work with different plugin backends (vst, ladspa ...) ... a pluggo for pd could make use of this project in order to support several platforms out of the box. i guess, stefano doesn't have a working prototype, yet, but it's probably a good idea to join the development resources in order do avoid duplicate work. his project website is http://sourceforge.net/projects/naspro/ in general, from my knowledge of the pd architecture, running pd in a plugin environment would require some non-trival changes, it can't be just implemented on top of the current implementation. which means, in some way, this has to be incorporated into vanilla pd ... Maybe this is a very naive solution, but couldn't we solve the problem of getting audio data from PD into non-jack apps (that support some kind of plugin), by writing a very simple (LADSPA, VST, AU etc.) plugin that acts as a jack client. e.g.: Audacity - LADSPA jack client plugin - jack - PD - jack - LADSPA jack client plugin - Audacity The simplest case would use one 'jack client plugin' instance for each audio channel to/from PD. I've been meaning to implement this for a while, and maybe there's a glaring flaw, but I can't see it right now.. Jamie ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Google Summer of Code WIKI
Hallo! Audacity - LADSPA jack client plugin - jack - PD - jack - LADSPA jack client plugin - Audacity But AFAIK this is already possible - at least in Ardour I did something like that (but the problem is, that you cannot automate the parameters ..) LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Google Summer of Code WIKI
There already is a jack VST and Audio Unit for OSX, that's not the issue. What I really want is to just be able to run one master app (my DAW) and have everything else loaded from there, so that I don't have to do the whole 30 mins of configuring and opening corresponding files and settings, stored in directories across the computer thing. It's a pain to have to adjust and load setting after setting when it could all be saved in a nice project file in a professional sequencer app. For those of us who like what Pd has to offer as a bus insert or midi filter or general audio swiss army knife, we don't want to deal with multiples of files all over the place in different spots, we just want to have a nice compact project space that contains everything in an intuitive way, so we can just touch and go, and save everything so that we can open the project back up again exactly how we left it, all automation and everything stored in the project. Managing automation in Pd has not been a quick and dirty thing for me, and I'd prefer to leave that task to software that I'm comfortable with. But to have a custom synth or effect or midi chain filter or integrated graphics show work seamlessly from my DAW once I load one single project file is the holy grail to me. Having 5 programs open and trying to wrangle the routing between them for a half hour to get a song playing is less than ideal. A Pluggo for Pd would help minimize the time and frustration of this by compressing it all into one file that references a bank of subordinate plugins. ~Kyle On 3/3/07, Jamie Bullock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 21:20 +0100, Tim Blechmann wrote: i've been changing some emails with stefano d'angelo, who is starting to write a plugin wrapper, which is supposed to work with different plugin backends (vst, ladspa ...) ... a pluggo for pd could make use of this project in order to support several platforms out of the box. i guess, stefano doesn't have a working prototype, yet, but it's probably a good idea to join the development resources in order do avoid duplicate work. his project website is http://sourceforge.net/projects/naspro/ in general, from my knowledge of the pd architecture, running pd in a plugin environment would require some non-trival changes, it can't be just implemented on top of the current implementation. which means, in some way, this has to be incorporated into vanilla pd ... Maybe this is a very naive solution, but couldn't we solve the problem of getting audio data from PD into non-jack apps (that support some kind of plugin), by writing a very simple (LADSPA, VST, AU etc.) plugin that acts as a jack client. e.g.: Audacity - LADSPA jack client plugin - jack - PD - jack - LADSPA jack client plugin - Audacity The simplest case would use one 'jack client plugin' instance for each audio channel to/from PD. I've been meaning to implement this for a while, and maybe there's a glaring flaw, but I can't see it right now.. Jamie ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://theradioproject.com http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com (()()()(()))()()())( (())(())()((( ))(__ _())(()))___ (((000)))oOO ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Google Summer of Code WIKI
Yeah. Kyle pretty much summed it up there. This is something I've wanted badly since I first saw Pd. It took me months to get a stable, workable setup between Cubase and Pd, and even now, I could finally take up knitting with the time a Pluggo for Pd would save me. Futzing with Jack and OS X IAC every time I want to make noise is a monstrous PITA. I've attempted building large sequencers to replace Cubase on multiple occasions, but it just doesn't make sense to duplicate that effort (and that's assuming Pd's data structures are ready for such a thing performance-wise, which they are not). So a huge vote for PluggoPd! The Naspro project that Tim mentioned was exactly what I thought of when I first saw this idea... I'm glad to see it is being developed; the myriad plugin formats are a tedious situation. Luke On 3/3/07, Kyle Klipowicz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There already is a jack VST and Audio Unit for OSX, that's not the issue. What I really want is to just be able to run one master app (my DAW) and have everything else loaded from there, so that I don't have to do the whole 30 mins of configuring and opening corresponding files and settings, stored in directories across the computer thing. It's a pain to have to adjust and load setting after setting when it could all be saved in a nice project file in a professional sequencer app. For those of us who like what Pd has to offer as a bus insert or midi filter or general audio swiss army knife, we don't want to deal with multiples of files all over the place in different spots, we just want to have a nice compact project space that contains everything in an intuitive way, so we can just touch and go, and save everything so that we can open the project back up again exactly how we left it, all automation and everything stored in the project. Managing automation in Pd has not been a quick and dirty thing for me, and I'd prefer to leave that task to software that I'm comfortable with. But to have a custom synth or effect or midi chain filter or integrated graphics show work seamlessly from my DAW once I load one single project file is the holy grail to me. Having 5 programs open and trying to wrangle the routing between them for a half hour to get a song playing is less than ideal. A Pluggo for Pd would help minimize the time and frustration of this by compressing it all into one file that references a bank of subordinate plugins. ~Kyle On 3/3/07, Jamie Bullock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 21:20 +0100, Tim Blechmann wrote: i've been changing some emails with stefano d'angelo, who is starting to write a plugin wrapper, which is supposed to work with different plugin backends (vst, ladspa ...) ... a pluggo for pd could make use of this project in order to support several platforms out of the box. i guess, stefano doesn't have a working prototype, yet, but it's probably a good idea to join the development resources in order do avoid duplicate work. his project website is http://sourceforge.net/projects/naspro/ in general, from my knowledge of the pd architecture, running pd in a plugin environment would require some non-trival changes, it can't be just implemented on top of the current implementation. which means, in some way, this has to be incorporated into vanilla pd ... Maybe this is a very naive solution, but couldn't we solve the problem of getting audio data from PD into non-jack apps (that support some kind of plugin), by writing a very simple (LADSPA, VST, AU etc.) plugin that acts as a jack client. e.g.: Audacity - LADSPA jack client plugin - jack - PD - jack - LADSPA jack client plugin - Audacity The simplest case would use one 'jack client plugin' instance for each audio channel to/from PD. I've been meaning to implement this for a while, and maybe there's a glaring flaw, but I can't see it right now.. Jamie ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://theradioproject.com http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com (()()()(()))()()())( (())(())()((( ))(__ _())(()))___ (((000)))oOO ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Google Summer of Code WIKI
I think this idea is awesome too ... very useful for me personally, and would be sure to bring more PD users. ~David On 3/3/07, Luke Iannini (pd) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah. Kyle pretty much summed it up there. This is something I've wanted badly since I first saw Pd. It took me months to get a stable, workable setup between Cubase and Pd, and even now, I could finally take up knitting with the time a Pluggo for Pd would save me. Futzing with Jack and OS X IAC every time I want to make noise is a monstrous PITA. I've attempted building large sequencers to replace Cubase on multiple occasions, but it just doesn't make sense to duplicate that effort (and that's assuming Pd's data structures are ready for such a thing performance-wise, which they are not). So a huge vote for PluggoPd! The Naspro project that Tim mentioned was exactly what I thought of when I first saw this idea... I'm glad to see it is being developed; the myriad plugin formats are a tedious situation. Luke On 3/3/07, Kyle Klipowicz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There already is a jack VST and Audio Unit for OSX, that's not the issue. What I really want is to just be able to run one master app (my DAW) and have everything else loaded from there, so that I don't have to do the whole 30 mins of configuring and opening corresponding files and settings, stored in directories across the computer thing. It's a pain to have to adjust and load setting after setting when it could all be saved in a nice project file in a professional sequencer app. For those of us who like what Pd has to offer as a bus insert or midi filter or general audio swiss army knife, we don't want to deal with multiples of files all over the place in different spots, we just want to have a nice compact project space that contains everything in an intuitive way, so we can just touch and go, and save everything so that we can open the project back up again exactly how we left it, all automation and everything stored in the project. Managing automation in Pd has not been a quick and dirty thing for me, and I'd prefer to leave that task to software that I'm comfortable with. But to have a custom synth or effect or midi chain filter or integrated graphics show work seamlessly from my DAW once I load one single project file is the holy grail to me. Having 5 programs open and trying to wrangle the routing between them for a half hour to get a song playing is less than ideal. A Pluggo for Pd would help minimize the time and frustration of this by compressing it all into one file that references a bank of subordinate plugins. ~Kyle On 3/3/07, Jamie Bullock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 21:20 +0100, Tim Blechmann wrote: i've been changing some emails with stefano d'angelo, who is starting to write a plugin wrapper, which is supposed to work with different plugin backends (vst, ladspa ...) ... a pluggo for pd could make use of this project in order to support several platforms out of the box. i guess, stefano doesn't have a working prototype, yet, but it's probably a good idea to join the development resources in order do avoid duplicate work. his project website is http://sourceforge.net/projects/naspro/ in general, from my knowledge of the pd architecture, running pd in a plugin environment would require some non-trival changes, it can't be just implemented on top of the current implementation. which means, in some way, this has to be incorporated into vanilla pd ... Maybe this is a very naive solution, but couldn't we solve the problem of getting audio data from PD into non-jack apps (that support some kind of plugin), by writing a very simple (LADSPA, VST, AU etc.) plugin that acts as a jack client. e.g.: Audacity - LADSPA jack client plugin - jack - PD - jack - LADSPA jack client plugin - Audacity The simplest case would use one 'jack client plugin' instance for each audio channel to/from PD. I've been meaning to implement this for a while, and maybe there's a glaring flaw, but I can't see it right now.. Jamie ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://theradioproject.com http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com (()()()(()))()()())( (())(())()((( ))(__ _())(()))___ (((000)))oOO ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and
Re: [PD] Google Summer of Code WIKI
Hallo! so imo, such a project should be coordinated with miller in order to avoid that the effort is wasted, just because he doesn't incorporate the changes. of course - and IMHO that's the problem with that project ... LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Google Summer of Code WIKI
Well, at least with OSX, there are Audio Units development kits available for free with their developers package (also free). I vaguely remember reading somewhere that Steinberg is cagey about VST API stuff, but am not sure. Something like this would really cause me to use Pd a whole lot more. Features that would be great are: -cross platform -ability to encapsulate a plug-in that has all libraries and abstractions included in a single file. -edit-ability in this encapsulated form I doubt that these things will be easy (if even possible to accomplish). Oh, and on the subject, maybe we could think about enlisting some 'summer help' on tcl/tk interface improvements as well? ~Kyle On 3/1/07, Josh Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Georg Holzmann wrote: Hallo! Well, I guess updating PdVST is a little bit too small ... not if done correctly, it should be portable, support multiple plugin formats (ladsa, dx, vst), etc. would be a really good summer project. you are right ... but aren't there already hosts for all the plugins ? other way around, the project isnt to host plugins in pd, its to host pd patches as a plugins in other vst hosts (live, flstudio, whatever)... check out PdVST if you have a windows box... it works pretty well, but is based of a really outdated pd: http://www-crca.ucsd.edu/~jsarlo/pdvst/ i am unable... i removed PdVST from the short list, Pluggo4PD is probably a better descriptor, but now there is no little ? to click on. strange ;) ... I changed it to PluggoPD, now it's possible again ... it seems that for the wiki there should be no numbers in the names ... ahh, that makes some sense, thanks. i'll try to find some time soon to writeup a description. if anyone wants to pipe in with wanted features or maybe clues on how to implement this it would be helpful. -josh -- tasty electronic music vittles -- bluevitriol.com the only music blog you need-- playtherecords.com you are the dj. interactive music -- improbableorchestra.com random observations of the bizarre -- vitriolix.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://theradioproject.com http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com (()()()(()))()()())( (())(())()((( ))(__ _())(()))___ (((000)))oOO ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Google Summer of Code WIKI
Hallo! Well, I guess updating PdVST is a little bit too small ... not if done correctly, it should be portable, support multiple plugin formats (ladsa, dx, vst), etc. would be a really good summer project. you are right ... but aren't there already hosts for all the plugins ? i am unable... i removed PdVST from the short list, Pluggo4PD is probably a better descriptor, but now there is no little ? to click on. strange ;) ... I changed it to PluggoPD, now it's possible again ... it seems that for the wiki there should be no numbers in the names ... LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Google Summer of Code WIKI
Hey, why not have the Pd website be a project for SOC as well? I'm sure there would be some young designers aching to test their skills and give us a good PR representation. Is that acceptable to the terms of the event? ~Kyle On 2/27/07, Georg Holzmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo! As also IOhannes said, that he would be a mentor for the GEM projects, I started now to make a WIKI, where the projects we discussed are discribed. This page must be presented to google (description of puredata and of the single projects) - so maybe some english native speaker can correct my really bad english and make this text looking better to the google guys (everyone with an puredata.org account should have write privilegs). Here is the WIKI: http://puredata.info/dev/summer-of-code LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://theradioproject.com http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com (()()()(()))()()())( (())(())()((( ))(__ _())(()))___ (((000)))oOO ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Google Summer of Code WIKI
Hallo! Hey, why not have the Pd website be a project for SOC as well? I'm sure there would be some young designers aching to test their skills and give us a good PR representation. Is that acceptable to the terms of the event? No, unfortunately no documentation work will be accepted ... (I read it somewhere in the FAQ) LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Google Summer of Code WIKI
i'd like to nominate reviving and updating PdVST as another idea. or if someone has another idea for doing it better than the approach pdvst used, some soft of new Pluggo for PD idea. -josh Georg Holzmann wrote: Hallo! As also IOhannes said, that he would be a mentor for the GEM projects, I started now to make a WIKI, where the projects we discussed are discribed. This page must be presented to google (description of puredata and of the single projects) - so maybe some english native speaker can correct my really bad english and make this text looking better to the google guys (everyone with an puredata.org account should have write privilegs). Here is the WIKI: http://puredata.info/dev/summer-of-code LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- tasty electronic music vittles -- bluevitriol.com the only music blog you need-- playtherecords.com you are the dj. interactive music -- improbableorchestra.com random observations of the bizarre -- vitriolix.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Google Summer of Code WIKI
Yes yes yes And cross-platform too. Or at least a comparable audio units version for Mac users. That would be great! ~Kyle On 2/27/07, Josh Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i'd like to nominate reviving and updating PdVST as another idea. or if someone has another idea for doing it better than the approach pdvst used, some soft of new Pluggo for PD idea. -josh Georg Holzmann wrote: Hallo! As also IOhannes said, that he would be a mentor for the GEM projects, I started now to make a WIKI, where the projects we discussed are discribed. This page must be presented to google (description of puredata and of the single projects) - so maybe some english native speaker can correct my really bad english and make this text looking better to the google guys (everyone with an puredata.org account should have write privilegs). Here is the WIKI: http://puredata.info/dev/summer-of-code LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- tasty electronic music vittles -- bluevitriol.com the only music blog you need-- playtherecords.com you are the dj. interactive music -- improbableorchestra.com random observations of the bizarre -- vitriolix.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://theradioproject.com http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com (()()()(()))()()())( (())(())()((( ))(__ _())(()))___ (((000)))oOO ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Google Summer of Code WIKI
Hallo! i'd like to nominate reviving and updating PdVST as another idea. or if someone has another idea for doing it better than the approach pdvst used, some soft of new Pluggo for PD idea. Well, I guess updating PdVST is a little bit too small ... And don't know much if a Pluggo for PD is possible, so I cannot really describe it - and if it is possible I think it should not be only for VST, also LADSPA etc. But you can of course add it to the WIKI, but please make also a more detailed description (click on the ? to generate the new page) LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
