[PD] [pdconv16_r] vanilla as core: GUI message standardization & source modularization

[Dan Wilcox]

(This is also covered in a short section on the upcoming libpd paper.)

With the success of libpd, the vanilla sources have proven to be an adaptable 
basis as a core library without substantially altering the purpose or 
maintainability of vanilla itself. We now have an ecosystem of applications 
which all share the same vanilla core. Can this model be extended so 
vanilla/libpd can be used as the core for the other variants of the Pure Data 
GUI? 

Similarly, can the GUI communication with the core be standardized around a 
messaging API to allow something like libpd to be used as this basis? Jonathan 
Wilkes has done work in this area with the Purr Data messaging API. I can 
foresee various GUIs all sharing the same core, objects, etc

Also, can the vanilla sources be greater modularized to allow overriding of 
various aspects of the GUI / internals when used by variants ie. undo/redo, 
etc? This could allow for a better sharing of development resources while 
maintaining both the goal of vanilla stability and allowing for customization 
and experimentation with newer, better GUIS.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 
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[PD] [pdconv16_r] A simplification for tracking topics (from the admins)

[Joe Deken]

Maybe adding a little helpful detail for admin -- please post one message
per topic you have in mind; this will make sorting easier.   So a
suggested sample "Subject:" header might be

[pdconv16_r] Topic: World Peace through Pd

and then another separate message might have

[pdconv16_r] Topic: Incompatible harmonies support

But NOT [pdconv16_r] Topic: World Peace & Incompatible harmonies support

etc.  Please don't worry -- this is not fuss or rocket science; just a
suggestion that
might make topic-gathering easier.  No need (and not recommended)
to tidy up.
NOT RE-SEND multi-topic message(s) you may have already launched.
   (We'll probably find it easier to split-out a complex message or
two than to
start recognizing/eliminating duplicate messages. Thanks!)



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[PD] [pdconv16_r] Topics: Deken/Core Objects/Website/Community Involvement

[Derek Kwan]

> Joe Deken and Jaime Oliver and I are interested in setting up a round table
> discussion to consider possible future developments for Pd vanilla.  I have a
> lengthy list of ideas and I'm sure many of you have ideas as well.  To prepare
> for this, it would be helpful to collect some of them in advance.  If you
> have a direction you'd like to see Pd development go in, please feel free to
> suggest it in a followup e-mail to this one.

Oh boy, I have a bunch bunch of ideas that are kinda sorta related to
each other sorta not. Here we go!:


DEKEN:
- I think library management is important to the future of Pd and
  I'd like to discuss idea of how to improve it. I basically think
  the current idea needs a bit more meat on its bones to truly be
  helpful and integral to the Pd experience. I'd like to discussion
  what sorts of metadata would be helpful to have, how updates to
  libraries can be handled (esp with previous versions on a user's
  computer), if perhaps it could handle package manifests ala
  Node.js so that projects are easier to distribute (which also
  brings up the issue of local project install vs global install)

CORE OBJECTS:
- I'd like to discuss if the core objects included with Pd Vanilla
  should be expanded and what they should be expanded with. I like
  the modularity of Pd (this aspect being reinforced by Deken), but
  I also think maybe including objects to increase the functionality
  to Pd could be added. Things such as additional GUI objects,
  multidimensional arrays, more powerful sequencing tools, global
  transport like functions, hash tables, etc. 

WEBSITE:
- I'd like to discuss the future of the website (not totally related
  to Pd Vanilla, but important to the Pd world as a whole). I think
  the Pd community lacks a good solid go-to resource on the web
  that's up to date. Puredata.info has been a great resources, but
  I'm not sure that the wiki format lends itself to simplicity and
  clarity, esp for Pd newbies. It also hasn't been the best at being
  up-to-date (I mean, there's still mentions of Pd-extended in
  several places) and it would stand a better chance of being more
  up to date if more people in the community could freely contribute
  to its upkeep. I also think that a centralized Pd website could
  potentially become a great showcase of what people have done with
  Pd and a resource for abstractions and example code and although
  that can be done with member pages, I don't think member pages are
  the best way to get this info across (although I'm not opposed to
  member pages, I have one!)

COMMUNITY INVOLVEMENT:
- I'm not sure if it's just me finally working on Pd community
  projects like Cyclone and writing on the list, but I have a
  feeling that the community has been grown and become more active
  and eager to be involved in the development and improvement of Pd
  and Pd-related projects and I'd like to explore perhaps if somehow
  more people could be involved in Pd Vanilla development, how that
  could be achieved, and how it can be made sure that development is
  focused and doesn't stray from a central idea of what Pd Vanilla
  should be.


Looking forward to some fruitful discussion!

Derek

==
Derek Kwan
www.derekxkwan.com


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