Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd 0.55-0 test version released

[Miller Puckette]

I'm having trouble recreating this - I thik it was happening for a while 
but now I can't seem to get consistent differences (after launching both 
versions many times).  Are you launching it by clicking on the Pd icon, 
or some other way?  (That seems to make a difference).


thanks

M

On 5/15/24 1:25 PM, Benjamin Wesch wrote:

hm, that's really weird. i tried to objectively measure here now with
a script that waits for the "connected" output when starting both
versions in parallel and i consistently get results quite similar to
this:

pd-0.54-1.log: 0.99s
pd-0.55-0.log: 2.72s

so my subjective impression was certainly wrong with 5s - but there's
still a noticeable difference.

cheers,
ben

Am Mi., 15. Mai 2024 um 11:51 Uhr schrieb Miller Puckette
:

Hmm... I'm not getting that on mine.  The startup order is indeed
different -

the GUI doesn't start up until after any startup stuff has been done
(loading libraries,

etc).  But I don't _think_ the overall time spent is different - do let
me know if you're

finding otherwise :)

Miller

On 5/15/24 10:56 AM, Benjamin Wesch wrote:

thanks a lot for the test release!
what i noticed here (apple m2) in addition to the missing console
output: pd now takes ~5s to start. not a big deal obviously, but it's
a huge difference compared to 0.54, where the gui is ready after ~1s.

cheers,
ben

Am Di., 14. Mai 2024 um 16:26 Uhr schrieb Miller Puckette
:

To Pd-announce:

Pd version 0.55-0 test2 is available from http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
or (source only) via github: 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data__;!!Mih3wA!EYIIRk4dAHKvFUeDU8oAbbLqs85QxrQMAIKPfOBo4CV429prsy7Mkhr6G-eFg56gAQv31-q3Q0hYoDbWzZpR$

There was no "test1" - it never made it through the release process.  Also,
for Mac users, the app will show up as "Pd-0.55-0test2c" but in fact
it's just test2.

cheers
Miller





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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd 0.55-0 test version released

[Miller Puckette]

It feels slower to me too (on Mac at least) - not sure why but I'd like 
to figure it out.


cheers

Miller

On 5/15/24 1:25 PM, Benjamin Wesch wrote:

hm, that's really weird. i tried to objectively measure here now with
a script that waits for the "connected" output when starting both
versions in parallel and i consistently get results quite similar to
this:

pd-0.54-1.log: 0.99s
pd-0.55-0.log: 2.72s

so my subjective impression was certainly wrong with 5s - but there's
still a noticeable difference.

cheers,
ben

Am Mi., 15. Mai 2024 um 11:51 Uhr schrieb Miller Puckette
:

Hmm... I'm not getting that on mine.  The startup order is indeed
different -

the GUI doesn't start up until after any startup stuff has been done
(loading libraries,

etc).  But I don't _think_ the overall time spent is different - do let
me know if you're

finding otherwise :)

Miller

On 5/15/24 10:56 AM, Benjamin Wesch wrote:

thanks a lot for the test release!
what i noticed here (apple m2) in addition to the missing console
output: pd now takes ~5s to start. not a big deal obviously, but it's
a huge difference compared to 0.54, where the gui is ready after ~1s.

cheers,
ben

Am Di., 14. Mai 2024 um 16:26 Uhr schrieb Miller Puckette
:

To Pd-announce:

Pd version 0.55-0 test2 is available from http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
or (source only) via github: 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data__;!!Mih3wA!EYIIRk4dAHKvFUeDU8oAbbLqs85QxrQMAIKPfOBo4CV429prsy7Mkhr6G-eFg56gAQv31-q3Q0hYoDbWzZpR$

There was no "test1" - it never made it through the release process.  Also,
for Mac users, the app will show up as "Pd-0.55-0test2c" but in fact
it's just test2.

cheers
Miller





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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd 0.55-0 test version released

[Miller Puckette]

Hmm... I'm not getting that on mine.  The startup order is indeed 
different -


the GUI doesn't start up until after any startup stuff has been done 
(loading libraries,


etc).  But I don't _think_ the overall time spent is different - do let 
me know if you're


finding otherwise :)

Miller

On 5/15/24 10:56 AM, Benjamin Wesch wrote:

thanks a lot for the test release!
what i noticed here (apple m2) in addition to the missing console
output: pd now takes ~5s to start. not a big deal obviously, but it's
a huge difference compared to 0.54, where the gui is ready after ~1s.

cheers,
ben

Am Di., 14. Mai 2024 um 16:26 Uhr schrieb Miller Puckette
:

To Pd-announce:

Pd version 0.55-0 test2 is available from http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
or (source only) via github: 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data__;!!Mih3wA!EYIIRk4dAHKvFUeDU8oAbbLqs85QxrQMAIKPfOBo4CV429prsy7Mkhr6G-eFg56gAQv31-q3Q0hYoDbWzZpR$

There was no "test1" - it never made it through the release process.  Also,
for Mac users, the app will show up as "Pd-0.55-0test2c" but in fact
it's just test2.

cheers
Miller





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[PD] [PD-announce] Pd 0.55-0 test version released

[Miller Puckette]

To Pd-announce:

Pd version 0.55-0 test2 is available from http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
or (source only) via github: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data

There was no "test1" - it never made it through the release process.  Also,
for Mac users, the app will show up as "Pd-0.55-0test2c" but in fact 
it's just test2.


cheers
Miller





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Re: [PD] RIP Ed Kelly

[Miller Puckette]

I'll miss him!

Miller

On 3/11/24 03:31, José Luis Santorcuato Tapia wrote:
It's a great shame, I remember him with great joy, I still remember 
the anecdote about the dog. A great guy.

:/
José

El dom, 10 mar 2024 a las 18:19, Antoine Rousseau 
() escribió:


I'm sad too. I was lucky enough to work with him on NinjaJamm,
unfortunately I never met him face to face.
He had a very personal way of patching, and I'll never forget him!


Le dim. 10 mars 2024 à 22:36, Jaime Oliver
 a écrit :

Very sad news indeed!
Goodbye Ed Kelly!
J

On Sun, Mar 10, 2024 at 5:07 PM IOhannes m zmölnig
 wrote:

On 3/10/24 18:49, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> Tehomas Bow on facebook gave us the bad news. He had a
stroke and fell, got
> injured and passed away this friday. He leaves us soon,
just before turning
> 50. Ed was quite a fun character, I loved him, he'll be
missed. Rest in
> Peace.


this is indeed sad news.
the lone shark now sails uncharted waters.

mdsar
IOhannes m zmölnig
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-- 
**

Jaime E Oliver LR
www.jaimeoliver.pe



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Re: [PD] "espd" play soundfile

[Miller Puckette]

I did something really ugly and stupid... I set the output buffer to 20 
msec so


that Pd could do long-lasting control operations without interrupting audio.

Then I set a metronome to go off at exactly 2048-sample intervals, at 
each of


which I filled an array progressively from a file and started a tabplay~ 
object at


the same instant.  This works only with short files since the SD card 
filesystem


"seeks" by reading through the entire file every time - but you can 
still play long


sounds in principle by splitting them up into many short ones, each one 
an exact


multiple of 2048 samples long.

Here's my patch, enjoy :)

#N canvas 207 195 905 534 12;
#X obj 257 421 soundfiler;
#X obj 53 351 dac~ 1;
#X obj 47 165 r a;
#X obj 52 326 *~;
#X obj 232 13 loadbang;
#X obj 72 295 tabplay~ sample0;
#X msg 336 333 symbol /sdcard;
#X obj 232 38 t b b;
#X obj 532 82 r p;
#X obj 532 109 unpack 0 0 0;
#X msg 290 135 tempo 1 samp;
#X obj 306 211 + 1;
#X obj 277 211 f 0;
#X obj 266 237 moses;
#X msg 356 177 0;
#X obj 470 110 t b b f;
#X msg 160 127 50;
#X msg 391 135 1;
#X obj 258 307 +;
#X obj 266 262 t b f;
#X obj 257 368 pack 0 0 s;
#X obj 52 213 line~;
#X obj 52 238 *~;
#X obj 52 263 *~ 0.0001;
#X obj 554 366 s pd;
#X msg 495 256 0;
#X msg 554 342 dsp \$1;
#X msg 524 256 1;
#X msg 257 395 read -skip \$1 \$3/\$2-foo.wav sample0;
#X obj 277 177 metro 2048;
#X obj 424 27 array define sample0 2048;
#X obj 258 333 * 2048;
#X connect 2 0 21 0;
#X connect 3 0 1 0;
#X connect 4 0 7 0;
#X connect 5 0 3 1;
#X connect 6 0 20 2;
#X connect 7 1 16 0;
#X connect 7 1 10 0;
#X connect 7 1 6 0;
#X connect 7 1 29 0;
#X connect 8 0 9 0;
#X connect 9 0 15 0;
#X connect 9 1 18 1;
#X connect 9 2 13 1;
#X connect 10 0 29 0;
#X connect 11 0 12 1;
#X connect 12 0 11 0;
#X connect 12 0 13 0;
#X connect 13 0 19 0;
#X connect 13 1 25 0;
#X connect 14 0 12 1;
#X connect 15 0 17 0;
#X connect 15 0 27 0;
#X connect 15 1 14 0;
#X connect 15 2 20 1;
#X connect 16 0 21 0;
#X connect 17 0 29 0;
#X connect 18 0 31 0;
#X connect 19 0 5 0;
#X connect 19 1 18 0;
#X connect 20 0 28 0;
#X connect 21 0 22 0;
#X connect 21 0 22 1;
#X connect 22 0 23 0;
#X connect 23 0 3 0;
#X connect 25 0 26 0;
#X connect 26 0 24 0;
#X connect 27 0 26 0;
#X connect 28 0 0 0;
#X connect 29 0 12 0;
#X connect 31 0 20 0;


On 11/25/23 12:35, Yogi data wrote:

Hello,

after watching a video of a talk given by Mille Puckette at 
"laboratoire STMS"
about "espd" ,which is an adaptation of pd for esp32, I decided to 
give it a try.


I already have a set of 10 esp32 playing sounds from sdcard, using the
"arduino-audio-tools library", I monitor esp32's states and trigger 
samples from my
computer using pure data, via wifi. But I would prefer to be able to 
prototype using

pd.

The "espd" project compiled nicely, I can upload patches through wifi 
to my esp32

and all works just fine.

But, I couldn't find a way of playing samples, like Miller used it to 
make did in an

art  installation so I guess it is possible.

My question is : has anyone who has used espd a clue or an example 
patch showing

the usage ?

( I only tried using readsf~ )

Cheers

Yog

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Re: [PD] patching feedback loops in parent patch

[Miller Puckette]

This is 'correct' behavior, although perhaps not intuitive - sub-patches 
are considered atomic within their parents.  (I believe this is 
different from the way Max manages things).


cheers

Miller

On 11/16/23 11:32, Clemens wrote:


Hello there,

I noticed that pd handles delayed feedback loops a little bit odd. 
Feedback loops seem to be only allowed within the sub patch that 
contains the delay as well. When I patch the feedback loop in the 
parent of the patch that contains the delay, pd complains with the 
usual error message and doesn't give me audio output.


The screenshots below illustrate the issue.



No problem in this case. Everything fine.



I would argue this patch is functionally equivalent to the one above, 
but it refuses to run.


Is this behavior intended?

Best wishes,
Clemens Wegener

--
—

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 /   \|
|\ A /|
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   |

The Center for
Haptic Audio Interaction Research

http://www.chair.audio
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https://www.facebook.com/chair.audio


+49 3643 583940

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Re: [PD] Current best practice for GPIO pins on Raspberry Pi?

[Miller Puckette]

My old 'gpio' object was from 2013. it just issued linux reads and 
writes to some device.  I don't know if it would still work.


I've stuck it on

msp.ucsd.edu/tmp/gpio.c

in case you get desperate enough to want to revive a 10-year-old bit of 
system hackery :)


Miller

On 11/8/23 19:07, Dan Wilcox wrote:
I believe there was a basic [gpio] object, perhaps from Miller but I 
don't find it on his site now.


If someone has the source code, maybe we can put it up separately on 
github.com/pd-externals 
 with 
a pd-lib-builder makefile. It should be a simple C object, so easy to 
compile.



On Nov 8, 2023, at 6:57 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2023 15:14:21 +0100
From: Yann Seznec 
To:pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: [PD] Current best practice for GPIO pins on Raspberry Pi?
Message-ID: <9052d80b-1595-4402-92d3-066b5a4d3...@yannseznec.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8

Hello,

I?m wondering what the best option is nowadays for using the GPIO 
pins on a Raspberry Pi in Pure Data.


Wiring Pi seems to be no longer available, as far as I can tell. I?m 
not sure what other options there are?


One option suggested elsewhere for inputs was to use the ?retrogame? 
script to turn GPIO pin activity into keyboard presses and use the 
[key] object in Pd, but I can?t seem to get that script to work 
properly yet.


Any suggestions would be great, thanks in advance.

Yann



Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 

danomatika.com 

robotcowboy.com 






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[PD] [PD-announce] Pd 0.54-1 released

[Miller Puckette]

To Pd-announce:

Pd version 0.54-1 is available from http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
or (source only) via github: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data

This updates Pd to work correctly on MacOS 14.  There are various other 
bug fixes and documentation updates.


cheers

Miller




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Re: [PD] MPE in Pd Vanilla?

[Miller Puckette]

Use another instance of Pd :)

On 10/25/23 23:43, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
I'm finally trying to get a hold of what the deal is with MIDI 
Polyphonic Expression, which is hard because I have no modern 
controller that uses it. So one question is does anyone know of a nice 
free open source software that can format, send and receive MPE so I 
can test some things?


Now, only external I found in the wild was 
https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/2117 
 
and I'm trying to check it to see how things work.


And now for the real subject. I know Pd can get MPE data from raw midi 
and even specialized objects like [ctlin], but that doesn't seem to me 
like the "real deal", even though I'm aware my knowledge is limited. I 
am thinking about  a new external for ELSE, but it really looks like 
Vanilla should handle this. My point and idea is that Pd should better 
deal with it natively, whatever that actually means, I cannot put 
things in details yet... for reference, what I can say is that MAX has 
mpeparse and mpeformat objects, and I figure that Pd should also have 
something like that, by the way, I also opened an issue on github, see 
https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/2117 



what do you peple say?

cheers


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[PD] [PD-announce] Pd 0.54-1 test 1 relased - fixes problem with newest MAC OS version (14).

[Miller Puckette]

To Pd-announce:

Pd version 0.54-1 test 1 is available from http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
or (source only) via github: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data

This fixes a problem running 0.54-0 on the newest MAC operating system, 
plus other bug fixes andfocumentation updates.


cheers

Miller




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Re: [PD] off topic: congrats Miller for the Silver Lion award from La Biennale di Venezia

[Miller Puckette]

A big (off-topic) thanks --- both for the congrats, and to all of you 
who contribute to the Pd community.


Miller

On 10/21/23 04:17, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
see https://www.labiennale.org/en/music/2023/silver-lion 



Cheers for Miller <3

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Re: [PD] Where is "ESPD" (Pd for ESP32)?

[Miller Puckette]

http://msp.ucsd.edu/ideas/2022.10.02.espd/

I'm still trying to figure out how to make everything have a clear date 
but still be versionable and still also have stable URLs.


cheers

M

On 8/16/23 18:46, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
Howdy! In the link http://msp.ucsd.edu/ideas/espd/ I used to find pd 
compiled for FreeRTOS that would run in an ESP32 board, but it's now 
unavailable (The requested URL was not found on this server.)


cheers




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Re: [PD] HELP: Pure Data Vanilla v.0.54-0 under Windows 10 22H2 64-bit is not running!

[Miller Puckette]

Well, the "System tells there is already a Pd installation" message 
looks suspicious - but I don't understand the inner workings of the 
installer generator ("nsis") that makes the .exe file so I'm not sure if 
it's anything to worry about.


OTOH, one thing to try would be to manually ... grab the ".zip" file and 
unzip it somewhere in your own files (desktop is OK), then click inside 
"PD\bin" and try starting "pd.cmd" (the terminal app version) and see 
what it says/does.


From the fact that you have a hung "Wish" app but no "pd" I think 
somehow the gui application (a Wish script) is somehow not even getting 
to where it tries to start pd, which is a separate application with no GUI.


Meanwhile I can't get to a Windows 10 machine myself until Wednesday so 
I can't test any of this myself yet.


Thanks for the reporting in any case!

Miller


On 7/8/23 08:02, Linux ROUEN wrote:

Hello Miller,
Thanks for your reply.

No more luck trying to launch Pd Vanilla 0.54.0 after my 3rd installation 
attempt under Windows 10.

Installation procedure (with antivirus disabled):
- Manually deleted "C:\Program Files\Pd" folder,
- Manually deleted Pd Vanilla "StartMenu" entries,
- Rebooted my PC,
- Installed "pd-0.54-0.windows-installer.exe" file without any errors,
   . except a warning message at the beginning of the procedure stating that:
 "System tells there is already a Pd installation" which impossible!
- At the end of the installation, ran Pure Data 0.54.0, but nothing happened!
- In the Windows Tasks Manager, Wish is running but no Pd.
See the attached zip file summarizing the above.

Best,
Joseph Gastelais

-Message d'origine-
De : Pd-list [mailto:pd-list-boun...@lists.iem.at] De la part de Miller Puckette
Envoyé : samedi 8 juillet 2023 15:24
À : pd-list@lists.iem.at
Objet : Re: [PD] HELP: Pure Data Vanilla v.0.54-0 under Windows 10 22H2 64-bit 
is not running!

Well, first off I'd like to see if you can get back up and running  0.53
OK - then we can confidently try to figure out what happened with 0.54.

I think the machine failed to un-install Pd 0.54 because it was running
somehow without showing any windows.  The fix for that would be to look
in the "task manager" (open that using the famous control-alt-delete key
combination) and find all copies of Pd that are running, and kill them.
At that point an "uninstall" should work, but it would be simpler and
more direct simply to delete the folder "\Program Files\Pd".

Once that's done you should be able to install and run Pd 0.53 as it was
working before.

NExt step, since this is Windows, might be simply to reinstall 0.54 and
try it again.  If it doesn't immediately work then let's try together to
figure out why and how to fix it :)

Miller

On 7/7/23 18:34, Linux ROUEN wrote:

Hello Pd List,

Under Windows 10 22H2 64-bit, the previous 3 versions 0.53.0, 0.53.1
and 0.53.2 of Pure Data Vanilla were working okay, but not the latest
0.54.0 version!

I tried today to update to it using the
‘pd-0.54-0.windows-installer.exe’ file from Miller’s site but after
the installation trying to launch it nothing happens.

Installation procedure (with antivirus disabled):
- Uninstall Pd 0.53.2: okay
- Install ‘pd-0.54-0.windows-installer.exe’: everything went well
- Launch Pd 0.54.0: nothing happens!
- Uninstall Pd 0.54.0: okay
- Reinstall ‘pd-0.53-2.windows-installer.exe’: but lot of errors which
was not the case previously!
- Launch Pd 0.53.2: it’s opening?!
See the attached zip file for the error messages.

- Uninstall Pd 0.53.2: okay
- Reinstall ‘pd-0.54-0.windows-installer.exe’: but now a lot of errors
like with 0.53.2 reinstallation!
- Launch Pd 0.54.0: still nothing happens!!
See the attached zip file for the error messages.

See also the attached Pd Bin & Font zip file for the folders content.

Any idea what is going wrong with Pd 0.54.0 installation and now also
with Pd 0.53.2 reinstallation?
Everything seems to be broken!

Thanks,
Joseph Gastelais
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Re: [PD] HELP: Pure Data Vanilla v.0.54-0 under Windows 10 22H2 64-bit is not running!

[Miller Puckette]

Well, first off I'd like to see if you can get back up and running  0.53 
OK - then we can confidently try to figure out what happened with 0.54.


I think the machine failed to un-install Pd 0.54 because it was running 
somehow without showing any windows.  The fix for that would be to look 
in the "task manager" (open that using the famous control-alt-delete key 
combination) and find all copies of Pd that are running, and kill them.  
At that point an "uninstall" should work, but it would be simpler and 
more direct simply to delete the folder "\Program Files\Pd".


Once that's done you should be able to install and run Pd 0.53 as it was 
working before.


NExt step, since this is Windows, might be simply to reinstall 0.54 and 
try it again.  If it doesn't immediately work then let's try together to 
figure out why and how to fix it :)


Miller

On 7/7/23 18:34, Linux ROUEN wrote:


Hello Pd List,

Under Windows 10 22H2 64-bit, the previous 3 versions 0.53.0, 0.53.1 
and 0.53.2 of Pure Data Vanilla were working okay, but not the latest 
0.54.0 version!


I tried today to update to it using the 
‘pd-0.54-0.windows-installer.exe’ file from Miller’s site but after 
the installation trying to launch it nothing happens.


Installation procedure (with antivirus disabled):

- Uninstall Pd 0.53.2: okay

- Install ‘pd-0.54-0.windows-installer.exe’: everything went well

- Launch Pd 0.54.0: nothing happens!

- Uninstall Pd 0.54.0: okay

- Reinstall ‘pd-0.53-2.windows-installer.exe’: but lot of errors which 
was not the case previously!


- Launch Pd 0.53.2: it’s opening?!

See the attached zip file for the error messages.

- Uninstall Pd 0.53.2: okay

- Reinstall ‘pd-0.54-0.windows-installer.exe’: but now a lot of errors 
like with 0.53.2 reinstallation!


- Launch Pd 0.54.0: still nothing happens!!

See the attached zip file for the error messages.

See also the attached Pd Bin & Font zip file for the folders content.

Any idea what is going wrong with Pd 0.54.0 installation and now also 
with Pd 0.53.2 reinstallation?


Everything seems to be broken!

Thanks,

Joseph Gastelais


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[PD] [PD-announce] Pd 0.54-0 released

[Miller Puckette]

To Pd announce:

Pd version 0.54-0 is available from http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
or (source only) via github: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data .

cheers

Miller




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Re: [PD] 0.54-0test2 released

[Miller Puckette]

Drat, I already built 0.54-0 before seeing this.  Don't worry, it will 
make it into 0.54-1 which I'm sure will be needed before long :)


On 7/3/23 12:18, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
ok, my last edit to the help files, I worked on [sigmund~] and the 
changes are important, I really think you should include this last one 
cause I also fixed the correct version number. For details, see 
https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/2042


please revise.

cheers

Em seg., 3 de jul. de 2023 às 13:46, Alexandre Torres Porres 
 escreveu:


I'm staying tuned for the macOS app so I can test it :)

It's still not clear to me if we'll have both single and double
precision versions in the same app or what.

I have to say I'm getting really annoyed and not used to the new
hot area around outlets. Many many times I just want to click on
an object and drag it but end up pulling out an undesired cord.
Too late to do anything about it but that's it, maybe I could
suggest we could set this up in preferences.

As for the documentation updates, I wanted to better describe the
new features of sigmund~, add some examples, but I needed a bit
more time to figure things out a bit. I'm also worried the version
number won't get updated from 0.7 to 0.8 or something. I'll see if
I can revise its help file a bit and change the version.

cheers

Em seg., 3 de jul. de 2023 às 10:47, IOhannes m zmoelnig
 escreveu:

On 7/3/23 13:23, José de Abreu wrote:
> about the bigger console, it triggered to me on test1 I
think, but only
> after I tried to change the font size of the console, then I
don't know how
> to go back...

ah thanks, that's the trick.

so the new resizing code kicks in if you ever change the
default font of
the Pd-console.
since this change is remembered in the GUI-settings, the
console is
resized for future restarts of Pd (until you clear all the
settings).

it's probably something that ought to be fixed, but I think
it's low
priority (as in: let's not hold this back the Pd-0.54 release)

gfdasrtas
IOhannes
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[PD] 0.54-0test2 released

[Miller Puckette]

I've released 0.54-0 test 2 - I think all the known show-soppers are 
taken care of... uness something appears broken I'll plan to make the 
0.54-0release tomorrow.


cheers

Miller




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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd 0.54-0 test 1 released

[Miller Puckette]

On 6/22/23 11:50, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:

On 22/06/2023 15:41, oliver wrote:

It seems to not overwrite the old installation completely,
or so it seems to me. 



I think you runned the *new* installer whithout a prior uninstall (and 
you overwrited files).


The new installer will (in the future) warn you and ask you to 
uninstall first. but this warning is not happening if you have Pd < 
0.54 installed.


I got a different ride... installing 0.54 on top of 0.53 the installer 
did give me the option to erase the old one.  I tried it both with and 
without the "uninstall" option and had no trouble either way.  Since the 
new one will overwrite any files it needs, it shouldn't be strictly 
necessary to uninstall 0.53 files that got renamed or removed in 0.54 - 
they should just hang around but not do anything.  OTOH, if 
"preferences" are left around from 0.53 to 0.54 that could potentially 
cause trouble if something that was appropriate for 0.53 somehow crashes 
0.54, which is what I think Oliver saw.  If that's true, the only way to 
recreate Oliver's crash would be to re-establish the preferences he had 
in 0.53 and then install 0.54 on top of it without "uninstalling".


Or perhaps something totally different from that was going wrong...?

cheers

Miller




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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd 0.54-0 test 1 released

[Miller Puckette]

Are you using the "installer"?  I've been trying it and can't get it to 
go wrong yet.


thanks

Miller

On 6/22/23 10:57, Kylee Kennedy wrote:

Hi Oliver,

Good tip on uninstalling 0.53 and then install 0.54. I'm on WIN 10 and 
noticed my audio interface selections were missing Rearoute channels 
from Reaper when I installed 0.54 over the old pd app.
I reinstalled Reaper and they popped up. So far all my patches are 
working fine but I think it might be good to uninstall them and do 
a fresh install to be safe.


Thanks all for the work on getting this new release out, I'm looking 
forward to playing with the new multi-channel routing.


Take Care,
Kylee Kennedy




On Thu, Jun 22, 2023 at 6:42 AM oliver  wrote:

just some more minor reports:

WIN 7 /64bit

i downloaded and installed PD 0.54.0-test1 and installed it over
PD 0.53
which didn't go down well at all.

The new audio engine (portaudio) would crash PD when selecetd and the
preferences interface was a hybrid of the old and new one ...

Only after a complete wiping of the old PD (and PD user settings)
a new
install would work as expected. Also no more crashes on portaudio.

Another strange thing:

When entering startup flags in the preferences window
("font-weight" and
"font-size" in my case): they can be set but the line is empty
after a
close and restart of PD.

The values are set correctly on startup though !

Best

Oliver


Christof Ressi wrote:
>> anyhow, this is not something i think worth spending my time on.
> Agreed :)
>
>
>
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-- 


/// http://oliver.klingt.org


///





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[PD] [PD-announce] Pd 0.54-0 test 1 released

[Miller Puckette]

To Pd-announce:

Pd version 0.54-0test1 is available from http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
or (source only) via github: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data

New features include multi-channel signal connections and updated 
windows audio.  The new window version uses an audio subsystem that 
became available in windows 7 (so won't work on Windows XP any more but 
should be fine for windows 7 or newer).  There are many other 
improvements and updates.


cheers

Miller




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Re: [PD] change variables in struct?

[Miller Puckette]

I believe that if you change the name of a variable in a "struct" object 
it will keep all the existing data fields under the new names, even 
reordering the fields as appropriate.  OTOH I haven't tested this 
recently, so try it and report back if it fails somehow :)


cheers

Miller

On 5/11/23 03:00, Forrest Curo wrote:
If I want to use a working example struct (from the datastructures 
help patches) I can readily change the values of the variables it uses.


What about changing the names of those variables to something more 
meaningful for their use in a new structure? Will I need to construct 
the dreadful patch from scratch?


Forrest Curo
San Diego

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Re: [PD] hardcoded samplerate in audio example

[Miller Puckette]

Yep... these patches date back to before that outlet :)

For now it migth suffice to mention that the patches only work on 44k1 
soundfiles... and incidentally, thee best one (teh phase vocoder) works 
fine on 48K files, you just have to adjust the transposition by 147 cents.


cheers

Miller

On 4/23/23 03:47, Patco wrote:

Hello,

  I've found something awkward in all fft patches from 03.audio-examples that 
leads to mistakes.

Samplerate is hardcoded to 44100, so this wouldn't work correctly when opening 
soundfiles having another samplerate.

  This should be corrected by using [soundfiler] second outlet instead of 
hardcoding samplerate.


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Re: [PD] midi file into [text sequence]?

[Miller Puckette]

I've been using the "midi2sco" program to convert MIDI files to csound 
scores and then either reading the csound straight into a text object 
(read -c message so end-of-line terminates lists) - and/or writing 
simple awk scripts to change csound pitch notation back into MIDI 
pitches and convert times to milliseconds.


cheers

Miller

On 4/22/23 12:57, Christof Ressi wrote:
You can read the MIDI file with [mrpeach/midifile], output everything 
in a loop and save the MIDI messages in a [text] object. You just need 
to calculate the appropriate time delta between messages.


Christof

On 22.04.2023 07:46, Peter P. wrote:

Hi,

starting to use [text sequence] instead of [qlist] more and more, I am
wondering how difficult it might be to write an external script that
converts .mid file into .txt usable by [textfile sequence]?

Has anyone attempted something similar already? What would be the
easiest language and/or libraries to do this on DebianGNU Linux?

Thanks!
Peter



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Re: [PD] DSP crashing - PD freezes.

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

OK, I've uploaded the fix (I hope correctly) to msp.ucsd.edu/software.html,
as "0.53-2test1".  If that seems to work for everyone I'll rename it "0.53-2".

Thanks to all the help from several people (and to the portaudio folks!)

Miller
On Sat, Feb 04, 2023 at 03:09:21PM -0800, Theron Trowbridge wrote:
> It works on my Mac Mini M1 (upgraded to Ventura 13.2 last night) as well.
> The callbacks setting doesn't seem to have any obvious effect, but I didn't
> do anything too crazy with it.
> 
> Thanks for all the troubleshooting on this, it's a big help for me right
> now!
> 
> 
> -Theron
> ^
> 
> 
> On Sat, Feb 4, 2023 at 3:22 AM Dan Wilcox  wrote:
> 
> >
> > On Feb 4, 2023, at 11:46 AM, Denis Połeć  wrote:
> >
> > As far as I can tell, everything is going smoothly with the callback
> > settings.
> > However, I still haven't quite understood what it is for.
> >
> >
> > There was some discussion, maybe a year ago, about changing the name of
> > this option and finding ways to make it clear what it does.
> >
> > Copy/paste from Christof's email replay to Romain, to which you were not
> > in CC:
> >
> >  Are there situations when using
> > callbacks  (on CoreAudio) bring any benefit?
> >
> >
> > With "callbacks" enabled, Pd runs directly on the audio thread.
> > Generally, this is not really recommended because Pd itself is not
> > realtime safe. Many operations block for an indeterminate amount of
> > time, e.g. any call to "malloc()", network IO, file system operations,
> > etc. The upside is that you can avoid some extra delay (see below).
> >
> > With Pd's ringbuffer scheduler (= "callbacks" disabled), you can freely
> > adjust the delay according to? your needs. (The "delay" parameter
> > basically sets the size of the ringbuffer.) The price you pay is some
> > extra delay (1x the hardware buffer size). To minimize this extra delay,
> > you would set the /hardware buffer size/ as low as possible (e.g. 64
> > samples) since the audio callback does nothing but transfer a bunch of
> > samples. In this case, the extra latency would be as low as 64 samples,
> > so nothing to worry about too much.
> >
> > (The "callback" option can indeed make a noticable difference when using
> > Jack with larger block sizes. Ideally you would just use the smallest
> > Jack block size possible, but this might not work well for other Jack
> > clients...)
> >
> > As a side note: up until now, Pd's scheduler thread regularly goes to
> > sleep for a fixed duration, so it may wake up a bit too late. If the
> > delay setting is too low, this can lead to drop outs. With my
> > "scheduler_fix" branch, the scheduler thread waits on a semaphore and is
> > notified immediately when audio data is available. In my experience so
> > far, this allows for lower "delay" settings than before.
> >
> > Christof
> >
> >
> > 
> > Dan Wilcox
> > @danomatika 
> >  >  >
> > danomatika.com
> > robotcowboy.com
> >
> >
> >
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> >



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Re: [PD] DSP crashing - PD freezes.

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Bizarre... looks like the compile flags went whack somehow (API 4 is
portaudio, which is precisely what I updated).  I'll dig around in the
compiler output and see if I can psychoanalyse...

thanks
Miller

On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 10:12:08PM -0800, Theron Trowbridge wrote:
> Mac Mini M1, Ventura 13.1
> 
> It works better in some ways - the windows close and things quit when I ask
> them to. I don't have to force quit, and it doesn't seem to be messing up
> audio on the computer.
> 
> But when I turn on the DSP the output console just spams "unknown API" over
> and over again, and when I go into audios settings, I don't see my usual
> devices. The input device list has three options: "input device #1", "input
> device #2" and "input device #3" and there is no pull-down menu for output
> device, but only says "(same as input device)..." And I can't get it to
> make any sound.
> 
> When I turn off DSP, it outputs "sys_close_audio: unknown API 4"
> 
> 
> -Theron
> ^
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 8:24 PM Miller Puckette  wrote:
> 
> > OK (and thanks to Zmoelnig's CI machine)- here's a version of Pd with
> > the newest stable portaudio - can someone with MacOS 13 test this and see
> > if
> > the problem is still there?
> >
> > http://msp.ucsd.edu/tmp/pure-data_pa-v19.7.0_Darwin.zip
> >
> > cheers
> > Miller
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 01:28:14PM -0800, Miller Puckette via Pd-list
> > wrote:
> > > Thanks for the heads-up... Pd is carrying around a rather old version of
> > > portaudio - I'm in the middle of trying to update ot the latest stable
> > version,
> > > will let you know when I have something you can try...
> > >
> > > Miller
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 01:46:22PM -0800, Theron Trowbridge wrote:
> > > > I have similar issues on my Mac Mini M1 running Ventura 13.1. If I do
> > > > anything to generate audio, I cannot get it to quit normally, and have
> > to
> > > > force quit. It also screws up audio playback on the machine a little
> > bit
> > > > (pausing a YouTube video stutters a few times before it ceases to play
> > > > audio, for example) until I restart the computer (didn't think to try
> > and
> > > > kill the CoreAudio process).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -Theron
> > > > ^
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 12:09 PM William Brent <
> > william.br...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > This was originally reported on this list Oct 27 2022 (see this
> > thread
> > > > > <
> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2022-10/131609.html__;!!Mih3wA!FTX7ZBUz4d6gyF2FNd0fVyy0AM3EJ8dsNg5XR5I0kLxUB_tQoZnnxvzASC7vdL5WsMyhuRfHPRhHSzQZ9RwRUfQ$
> > >), and
> > > > > I can also confirm it second-hand via someone I'm currently
> > collaborating
> > > > > with. He accidentally upgraded to Ventura and since then has been
> > unable to
> > > > > quit Pd using Pd menu/Quit or command-Q. It's the only reason I
> > haven't
> > > > > upgraded to macOS 13!
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 2:26 PM Phil Stone 
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> I cannot reproduce it by disabling/enabling DSP on an M1 Macbook
> > running
> > > > >> Monterrey and Pd 0.53-1.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> *From: *Pd-list  on behalf of Denis
> > Połeć <
> > > > >> denis.po...@gmail.com>
> > > > >> *Date: *Monday, January 30, 2023 at 11:10 AM
> > > > >> *To: *pd-list@lists.iem.at 
> > > > >> *Subject: *[PD] DSP crashing - PD freezes.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Hello everyone,
> > > > >> I am experiencing an issue with Pure Data (0.53-1) on macOS Ventura
> > > > >> (13.2) running on an Apple Silicon machine. Whenever I make changes
> > to some
> > > > >> of the DSP settings, such as disabling and enabling it again, the
> > > > >> application freezes and I have to force close it. This also causes
> > my audio
> > > > >> to crash, and I have to kill CoreAudio in order to get it back up
> > and
> > > > >> running.
> > > > >>
> > >

Re: [PD] DSP crashing - PD freezes.

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

OK (and thanks to Zmoelnig's CI machine)- here's a version of Pd with
the newest stable portaudio - can someone with MacOS 13 test this and see if
the problem is still there?

http://msp.ucsd.edu/tmp/pure-data_pa-v19.7.0_Darwin.zip

cheers
Miller

On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 01:28:14PM -0800, Miller Puckette via Pd-list wrote:
> Thanks for the heads-up... Pd is carrying around a rather old version of
> portaudio - I'm in the middle of trying to update ot the latest stable 
> version,
> will let you know when I have something you can try...
> 
> Miller
> 
> On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 01:46:22PM -0800, Theron Trowbridge wrote:
> > I have similar issues on my Mac Mini M1 running Ventura 13.1. If I do
> > anything to generate audio, I cannot get it to quit normally, and have to
> > force quit. It also screws up audio playback on the machine a little bit
> > (pausing a YouTube video stutters a few times before it ceases to play
> > audio, for example) until I restart the computer (didn't think to try and
> > kill the CoreAudio process).
> > 
> > 
> > -Theron
> > ^
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 12:09 PM William Brent 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > This was originally reported on this list Oct 27 2022 (see this thread
> > > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2022-10/131609.html__;!!Mih3wA!FTX7ZBUz4d6gyF2FNd0fVyy0AM3EJ8dsNg5XR5I0kLxUB_tQoZnnxvzASC7vdL5WsMyhuRfHPRhHSzQZ9RwRUfQ$
> > >  >), and
> > > I can also confirm it second-hand via someone I'm currently collaborating
> > > with. He accidentally upgraded to Ventura and since then has been unable 
> > > to
> > > quit Pd using Pd menu/Quit or command-Q. It's the only reason I haven't
> > > upgraded to macOS 13!
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 2:26 PM Phil Stone  wrote:
> > >
> > >> I cannot reproduce it by disabling/enabling DSP on an M1 Macbook running
> > >> Monterrey and Pd 0.53-1.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> *From: *Pd-list  on behalf of Denis Połeć <
> > >> denis.po...@gmail.com>
> > >> *Date: *Monday, January 30, 2023 at 11:10 AM
> > >> *To: *pd-list@lists.iem.at 
> > >> *Subject: *[PD] DSP crashing - PD freezes.
> > >>
> > >> Hello everyone,
> > >> I am experiencing an issue with Pure Data (0.53-1) on macOS Ventura
> > >> (13.2) running on an Apple Silicon machine. Whenever I make changes to 
> > >> some
> > >> of the DSP settings, such as disabling and enabling it again, the
> > >> application freezes and I have to force close it. This also causes my 
> > >> audio
> > >> to crash, and I have to kill CoreAudio in order to get it back up and
> > >> running.
> > >>
> > >> Does anyone else experience this issue?
> > >> I have tried older versions, but I am getting the same result. Is this an
> > >> issue with Ventura? Can someone reproduce this?
> > >>
> > >> thanks.
> > >> denis. :)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
> > >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> > >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list__;!!Mih3wA!FTX7ZBUz4d6gyF2FNd0fVyy0AM3EJ8dsNg5XR5I0kLxUB_tQoZnnxvzASC7vdL5WsMyhuRfHPRhHSzQZ5K6hjtw$
> > >>  
> > >> ___
> > >> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
> > >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> > >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list__;!!Mih3wA!FTX7ZBUz4d6gyF2FNd0fVyy0AM3EJ8dsNg5XR5I0kLxUB_tQoZnnxvzASC7vdL5WsMyhuRfHPRhHSzQZ5K6hjtw$
> > >>  
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > William Brent
> > >
> > > “Great minds flock together”
> > > Conflations: conversational idiom for the 21st century
> > >
> > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.conflations.com__;!!Mih3wA!FTX7ZBUz4d6gyF2FNd0fVyy0AM3EJ8dsNg5XR5I0kLxUB_tQoZnnxvzASC7vdL5WsMyhuRfHPRhHSzQZSCeOCOU$
> > >  
> > > ___
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> > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list__;!!Mih3wA!FTX7ZBUz4d6gyF2FNd0fVyy0AM3EJ8dsNg5XR5I0kLxUB_tQoZnnxvzASC7vdL5WsMyhuRfHPRhHSzQZ5K6hjtw$
> > >  
> > >
> 
> > ___
> > Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
> > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list__;!!Mih3wA!FTX7ZBUz4d6gyF2FNd0fVyy0AM3EJ8dsNg5XR5I0kLxUB_tQoZnnxvzASC7vdL5WsMyhuRfHPRhHSzQZ5K6hjtw$
> >  
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] DSP crashing - PD freezes.

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Thanks for the heads-up... Pd is carrying around a rather old version of
portaudio - I'm in the middle of trying to update ot the latest stable version,
will let you know when I have something you can try...

Miller

On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 01:46:22PM -0800, Theron Trowbridge wrote:
> I have similar issues on my Mac Mini M1 running Ventura 13.1. If I do
> anything to generate audio, I cannot get it to quit normally, and have to
> force quit. It also screws up audio playback on the machine a little bit
> (pausing a YouTube video stutters a few times before it ceases to play
> audio, for example) until I restart the computer (didn't think to try and
> kill the CoreAudio process).
> 
> 
> -Theron
> ^
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 12:09 PM William Brent 
> wrote:
> 
> > This was originally reported on this list Oct 27 2022 (see this thread
> >  >  >), and
> > I can also confirm it second-hand via someone I'm currently collaborating
> > with. He accidentally upgraded to Ventura and since then has been unable to
> > quit Pd using Pd menu/Quit or command-Q. It's the only reason I haven't
> > upgraded to macOS 13!
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 2:26 PM Phil Stone  wrote:
> >
> >> I cannot reproduce it by disabling/enabling DSP on an M1 Macbook running
> >> Monterrey and Pd 0.53-1.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *From: *Pd-list  on behalf of Denis Połeć <
> >> denis.po...@gmail.com>
> >> *Date: *Monday, January 30, 2023 at 11:10 AM
> >> *To: *pd-list@lists.iem.at 
> >> *Subject: *[PD] DSP crashing - PD freezes.
> >>
> >> Hello everyone,
> >> I am experiencing an issue with Pure Data (0.53-1) on macOS Ventura
> >> (13.2) running on an Apple Silicon machine. Whenever I make changes to some
> >> of the DSP settings, such as disabling and enabling it again, the
> >> application freezes and I have to force close it. This also causes my audio
> >> to crash, and I have to kill CoreAudio in order to get it back up and
> >> running.
> >>
> >> Does anyone else experience this issue?
> >> I have tried older versions, but I am getting the same result. Is this an
> >> issue with Ventura? Can someone reproduce this?
> >>
> >> thanks.
> >> denis. :)
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
> >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list__;!!Mih3wA!FTX7ZBUz4d6gyF2FNd0fVyy0AM3EJ8dsNg5XR5I0kLxUB_tQoZnnxvzASC7vdL5WsMyhuRfHPRhHSzQZ5K6hjtw$
> >>  
> >> ___
> >> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
> >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
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> >>  
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > William Brent
> >
> > “Great minds flock together”
> > Conflations: conversational idiom for the 21st century
> >
> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.conflations.com__;!!Mih3wA!FTX7ZBUz4d6gyF2FNd0fVyy0AM3EJ8dsNg5XR5I0kLxUB_tQoZnnxvzASC7vdL5WsMyhuRfHPRhHSzQZSCeOCOU$
> >  
> > ___
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> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list__;!!Mih3wA!FTX7ZBUz4d6gyF2FNd0fVyy0AM3EJ8dsNg5XR5I0kLxUB_tQoZnnxvzASC7vdL5WsMyhuRfHPRhHSzQZ5K6hjtw$
> >  
> >

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Re: [PD] verbose object search paths not displaying unless debug4?

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

On Tue, Jan 24, 2023 at 07:27:59PM +0100, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:
> On 1/24/23 17:36, Peter P. wrote:
> > Hi list,
> > 
> > I am trying to trace the non-loading of an external, iemguts in my case.
> > I enabled verbose messages either in the "Path" preferences or by the 
> > command
> > line flag. Nevertheless the familiar dump of all the places that are
> > being searched is not displayed unless I enable verbose mode 4. Is this
> > intentional and has this behavior been modified recently?
> 
> i guess it was part of the logpost-refactoring:
> https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/1389
> 
> iirc, the outcome is that with "-verbose" you get an extra level of
> verbosity beyond "debug"¹
> 
> to be honest, i think that it's not asking too much to add both "-verbose"
> on the cmdline *and* raise the log-level in the GUI.
> (but then: i typically have set my log-level to "4" anyhow)
> 
> gfmdsar
> IOhannes
> 
> 
> 
> ¹ well not only; there's still the possibility to output at an "error" level
> if and only if "-verbose" was given. but the general idea is what i wrote
> above.

actually, would it work to set the verbose level of -verbose output to
normal?  Since you've already set the verbose flag anyway, I think all
such output ala "if (pd_verbose) ..." should then not be filtered by the
GUI verbose setting.

(I also got bitten by this at least once in the past :)

M

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Re: [PD] Pd download pages are down

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Hi all -

I believe the site went down last night but is back up now.

cheers
Miller

On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 04:41:55PM +0100, Peter P. wrote:
> Mario, both currently are working from within my country on the european
> continent.
> 
> * mario buoninfante  [2023-01-23 16:22]:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Just wanted to report that at the moment there is no way to download Pd
> > from:
> > 
> >  * 
> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://puredata.info/downloads/pure-data__;!!Mih3wA!Gl9wzD4LRO_V-DgtqSMDqrbx9YQpH3JSoaBLNWoIUT5RpBJ1ed7CyMuCTgOBpmd7CoIikYvgFnaBI5Ns28Y$
> >  
> >  * http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.html
> > 
> > because these seem to be both "broken".
> > 
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > 
> > Mario
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > musician, QA engineer, mental health first aider MHFA England
> > 
> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://isoneph.bandcamp.com/__;!!Mih3wA!Gl9wzD4LRO_V-DgtqSMDqrbx9YQpH3JSoaBLNWoIUT5RpBJ1ed7CyMuCTgOBpmd7CoIikYvgFnaB8bqvQjI$
> >  
> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://vdof.bandcamp.com/__;!!Mih3wA!Gl9wzD4LRO_V-DgtqSMDqrbx9YQpH3JSoaBLNWoIUT5RpBJ1ed7CyMuCTgOBpmd7CoIikYvgFnaBU7OIFnw$
> >  
> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mbuoninfante.tumblr.com__;!!Mih3wA!Gl9wzD4LRO_V-DgtqSMDqrbx9YQpH3JSoaBLNWoIUT5RpBJ1ed7CyMuCTgOBpmd7CoIikYvgFnaB3WzI-3E$
> >  
> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://vimeo.com/creativecodingsalerno__;!!Mih3wA!Gl9wzD4LRO_V-DgtqSMDqrbx9YQpH3JSoaBLNWoIUT5RpBJ1ed7CyMuCTgOBpmd7CoIikYvgFnaBJu3ktRg$
> >  
> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/mariobuoninfante__;!!Mih3wA!Gl9wzD4LRO_V-DgtqSMDqrbx9YQpH3JSoaBLNWoIUT5RpBJ1ed7CyMuCTgOBpmd7CoIikYvgFnaBeCNhz1s$
> >  
> 
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> >  
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[PD] [PD-announce] Max pd~ object test compiled for M1 processors

[Miller Puckette via Pd-announce]

To Pd announce -

The pd~ Max object (which allows you to embed Pd patches in Max/MSP) is now
available for the M1 architecture in a test version (0.55test1).  You can
get it at the usual spot:  http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.html

It _should_ be possible to run it in Max version 8 for either intel or "M1"
(apple) architecture, using Pd compiled for either architecture - but I haven't
tried out all the permutations yet.

Bug reports are most welcome, either to Pd list or to me personally.

cheers
Miller



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Re: [PD] Pd0.53-1 for Windows downloads look like Pd0.53-0

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

OK, I think I have this fixed - you can download them again from the
usual site, msp.ucsd.edu.

I had made a serious and stupid mistake putting out the 64-bit release (The
32-bit one appears to have been OK).  The good news is that the previous
files actually were 0.53-0, i.e., the "about pd" panel at least wasn't lying.

I didn't update the filename.  To check which file you have you can look at its
size which I gave on the website.

cheers
Miller

On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 01:11:23AM -0300, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:
> Good catch!
> 
> I can confirm the I get "Pd version 0.53.0" on the downloads for "version
> 0.53-1" from Miller's site (on both arch versions i386 and amd64).
> 
> @ Miller please fix it.
> 
> 
> :)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
> 
> On 29/12/2022 09:58, Benjamin Wesch wrote:
> > Hi and first of all: thank you so much for this beautiful piece of
> > software! I hope I'm addressing this correctly here: Since around 3
> > years, I've always (happily) downloaded the newest Windows Pd versions
> > from http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.html ... the current version
> > irritated me a bit though since it doesn't seem to include all the
> > changes that I've been following on github.
> > 
> > I downloaded and checked the installer and the zipped version. When I
> > open "Help"->"About Pd" from the menu, it says "Pd version 0.53.0".
> > Since that might just be a missing manual edit, I checked for changes
> > in help files and .tcl files that should be present (sigmund~-help.pd
> > for example) and can confirm that these are also missing in the
> > installer and zip of Pd0.53-1. I then built the current release myself
> > from 
> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/releases/tag/0.53-1__;!!Mih3wA!Gqf8nBzQ-hIcN9_qKlo09EjLHHYRsaKskjlk7uo7bdQuvnD10klNT5s2otHff8Hp_zzsbN2lcOjHv-UB$
> >   and
> > everything looks correct now (including "About Pd").
> > 
> > I hope I didn't do anything wrong on my side - but otherwise, I hope
> > this might help to get the downloads fixed. All the best! Ben
> > 
> > 
> > 
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] [leapmotion] version 0.2.0 on deken

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Nah.. it's just the command "xcodebuild -configuration Deployment -project 
pd~.xcodeproj/" (which has to be replaced) - after which I appear simply to
have copied the sources and help file into the built "mxo" bundle.

cheers
M

On Thu, Dec 29, 2022 at 07:19:23PM +0100, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> Ok, that explains a lack of separate tarball. Is the build script in the main 
> pd repo anywhere?
> 
> Also, if you buy used, get an M1 as a minimum. Don't buy an Intel CPU 
> otherwise you'll be revisiting this topic in a few years.
> 
> > On Dec 29, 2022, at 7:16 PM, Miller Puckette  wrote:
> > 
> > Sources are exactly the same as in extra/pd~ - needed files are
> > pd~.c and binarymsg.c .  I had these compiling with the 7.x Max SDK but
> > the 8.x one has dropped "xcodebuild" for cmake so the build and
> > release scripts have to be revisited.
> > 
> > Anyway I'm leaning toward buying a used macmini for decently cheap and
> > can get on this once that's done.
> > 
> > cheers
> > Miller
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://twitter.com/danomatika__;!!Mih3wA!Abr_PtncDce5zN25Z9HG_b2BwBTcP8oS4TBv_qEi5ZG8KWqOSzfg2_70ZlpFww8ju2Mw1XIpkpqTorM$
>  >
> danomatika.com 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://danomatika.com/__;!!Mih3wA!Abr_PtncDce5zN25Z9HG_b2BwBTcP8oS4TBv_qEi5ZG8KWqOSzfg2_70ZlpFww8ju2Mw1XIpnkgh_bs$
>  >
> robotcowboy.com 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://robotcowboy.com/__;!!Mih3wA!Abr_PtncDce5zN25Z9HG_b2BwBTcP8oS4TBv_qEi5ZG8KWqOSzfg2_70ZlpFww8ju2Mw1XIpGti6HZ0$
>  >
> 
> 
> 



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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] [leapmotion] version 0.2.0 on deken

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Sources are exactly the same as in extra/pd~ - needed files are
pd~.c and binarymsg.c .  I had these compiling with the 7.x Max SDK but
the 8.x one has dropped "xcodebuild" for cmake so the build and
release scripts have to be revisited.

Anyway I'm leaning toward buying a used macmini for decently cheap and
can get on this once that's done.

cheers
Miller

On Thu, Dec 29, 2022 at 06:44:20PM +0100, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> Is there a source code tarball for pd~ for Max? I'd be willing to build it if 
> installing the requisite SDKs is relatively easy. If the process can be 
> automated, we could consider using the build servers ala Pd vanilla.
> 
> > On Dec 29, 2022, at 4:52 PM, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
> > 
> > Ah, ok... the "pd~" object for Max... not its equivalent for pd. Now I 
> > understand why you need cmake which, in any case, is easily installable via 
> > homebrew. As for the Max SDK, I imagine it probably requires a more recent 
> > OS than 10.14 or 10.15, so you are best off with a Mac mini M1 or M2 at 
> > this point.
> > 
> >> On Dec 29, 2022, at 4:49 PM, Miller Puckette  >> <mailto:m...@ucsd.edu>> wrote:
> >> 
> >> Trying to compile and test it under Max - so that Max users can enjoy the
> >> powerful features of Pd at last :)
> >> 
> >> M
> >> 
> >> On Thu, Dec 29, 2022 at 04:47:50PM +0100, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> >>> Actually, isn't pd~ already compiled for arm64? What am I missing...?
> >>> 
> >>> % file /Applications/Pd-0.53-1.app/Contents/Resources/extra/pd~/pd~.d_fat
> >>> /Applications/Pd-0.53-1.app/Contents/Resources/extra/pd~/pd~.d_fat: 
> >>> Mach-O universal binary with 2 architectures: [x86_64:Mach-O 64-bit 
> >>> bundle x86_64] [arm64:Mach-O 64-bit bundle arm64]
> >>> /Applications/Pd-0.53-1.app/Contents/Resources/extra/pd~/pd~.d_fat (for 
> >>> architecture x86_64): Mach-O 64-bit bundle x86_64
> >>> /Applications/Pd-0.53-1.app/Contents/Resources/extra/pd~/pd~.d_fat (for 
> >>> architecture arm64):  Mach-O 64-bit bundle arm64
> >>> 
> >>> On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 07:49:43PM +0100, IOhannes m zm?lnig wrote:
> >>>> Am 28. Dezember 2022 16:20:08 MEZ schrieb "Jo?o Pais" 
> >>>> mailto:jmmmp...@gmail.com> 
> >>>> <mailto:jmmmp...@gmail.com <mailto:jmmmp...@gmail.com>>>:
> >>>>> ah ah actually the wink was for Miller - pd~ doesn't work on M1 yet.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Why not?
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Dan Wilcox
> >>> @danomatika 
> >>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://twitter.com/danomatika__;!!Mih3wA!GO00FwOSgl31mMscKMpZmwJaBSkv2sO_mvswrsoXIymnH-SSram6DsOmuu62kJXEAqEizO6qKqFHPe8$
> >>>  
> >>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://twitter.com/danomatika__;!!Mih3wA!GO00FwOSgl31mMscKMpZmwJaBSkv2sO_mvswrsoXIymnH-SSram6DsOmuu62kJXEAqEizO6qKqFHPe8$>
> >>>  >
> >>> danomatika.com 
> >>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://danomatika.com/__;!!Mih3wA!AWq7tr_i6nLkMC0TjveQyulbF-k9yp5jm624OypH7akWKlbu-NCVH8a0elfyL-tnm3AKB9OXs5aOqDI$
> >>>  > 
> >>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://danomatika.com/__;!!Mih3wA!GO00FwOSgl31mMscKMpZmwJaBSkv2sO_mvswrsoXIymnH-SSram6DsOmuu62kJXEAqEizO6qvmtuGlo$
> >>>  
> >>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://danomatika.com/__;!!Mih3wA!GO00FwOSgl31mMscKMpZmwJaBSkv2sO_mvswrsoXIymnH-SSram6DsOmuu62kJXEAqEizO6qvmtuGlo$>
> >>>  >
> >>> robotcowboy.com 
> >>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://robotcowboy.com/__;!!Mih3wA!AWq7tr_i6nLkMC0TjveQyulbF-k9yp5jm624OypH7akWKlbu-NCVH8a0elfyL-tnm3AKB9OX0TQyiL4$
> >>>  > 
> >>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://robotcowboy.com/__;!!Mih3wA!GO00FwOSgl31mMscKMpZmwJaBSkv2sO_mvswrsoXIymnH-SSram6DsOmuu62kJXEAqEizO6qPT6Q3e0$
> >>>  
> >>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://robotcowboy.com/__;!!Mih3wA!GO00FwOSgl31mMscKMpZmwJaBSkv2sO_mvswrsoXIymnH-SSram6DsOmuu62kJXEAqEizO6qPT6Q3e0$>
> >>>  >
> > 
> > 
> > Dan Wilcox
> > @danomatika 
> > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://twitter.com/danomatika__;!!Mih3wA!AWq7tr_i6nLkMC0TjveQyulbF-k9yp5jm624OypH7akWKlbu-NCVH8a0elfyL-tnm3AKB9OXmkXW6GY$
> >  >
> > danomatika.com 
> > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://danomatika.com/__;!!Mih3wA!AWq7tr_i6nLkMC0TjveQyulbF-k9yp5jm624OypH7akWKlbu-NCVH8a0elfyL-tnm3AKB9OXs5aOqDI$
> >  >
> > robotcowboy.com 
> > <https:/

Re: [PD] [PD-announce] [leapmotion] version 0.2.0 on deken

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Trying to compile and test it under Max - so that Max users can enjoy the
powerful features of Pd at last :)

M

On Thu, Dec 29, 2022 at 04:47:50PM +0100, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> Actually, isn't pd~ already compiled for arm64? What am I missing...?
> 
> % file /Applications/Pd-0.53-1.app/Contents/Resources/extra/pd~/pd~.d_fat
> /Applications/Pd-0.53-1.app/Contents/Resources/extra/pd~/pd~.d_fat: Mach-O 
> universal binary with 2 architectures: [x86_64:Mach-O 64-bit bundle x86_64] 
> [arm64:Mach-O 64-bit bundle arm64]
> /Applications/Pd-0.53-1.app/Contents/Resources/extra/pd~/pd~.d_fat (for 
> architecture x86_64): Mach-O 64-bit bundle x86_64
> /Applications/Pd-0.53-1.app/Contents/Resources/extra/pd~/pd~.d_fat (for 
> architecture arm64):  Mach-O 64-bit bundle arm64
> 
> On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 07:49:43PM +0100, IOhannes m zm?lnig wrote:
> > Am 28. Dezember 2022 16:20:08 MEZ schrieb "Jo?o Pais"  > >:
> >> ah ah actually the wink was for Miller - pd~ doesn't work on M1 yet.
> > 
> > Why not?
> 
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika 
>   >
> danomatika.com 
>   >
> robotcowboy.com 
>   >
> 
> 
> 



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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] [leapmotion] version 0.2.0 on deken

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

I don't have a recent enough mac to compile for M1.  I'm almost ready to
hold my nose and buy one.  Mac SDK requires cmake which I don't think my
department has managed to get running on their machines yet.  UGH...

M

On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 07:49:43PM +0100, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:
> Am 28. Dezember 2022 16:20:08 MEZ schrieb "João Pais" :
> >ah ah actually the wink was for Miller - pd~ doesn't work on M1 yet.
> 
> Why not?
> 
> 
> mfg.sfg.jfd
> IOhannes
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] [leapmotion] version 0.2.0 on deken

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

I think Max users can use pd~ to run this.

cheers
Miller

On Sun, Dec 25, 2022 at 06:08:44PM -0500, William Brent wrote:
> Hey Joao,
> 
> Chikashi also has a mac build of [leapmotion] available here
>   >, but it seems to be using SDK 1.
> So at least this version allows us to use 2.3.1. That's as far as we can go
> on macOS unless Leap changes their stance on mac development. But I'm
> messing around some with the latest 5.7.2 SDK and I'm not having any
> trouble building/linking on both Linux and Windows. And on those platforms
> I'm able to connect to both the original Leap Motion Controller and the new
> Ultraleap hardware.
> 
> I'm not sure about the best way to consolidate everything that's been done
> in this area, especially since I decided to remove the FLEXT layer, which
> will be important for Max/MSP users. Myself, I'm only interested in
> building this for Pd and I want to keep things as simple as possible. And
> if I follow through working with SDK 5.7.2, we'll have access to the latest
> version of Leap software/hardware on all 3 platforms. I'm totally open to
> working and organizing together on this...whatever seems to be the best
> way. I think I'll have time to get the code up to a good stopping point
> over the holidays.
> 
> As for the gestures - do you mean adding a system for training/recognizing
> user-defined gestures beyond the existing circle/swipe/tap gestures? I'm
> interested in that idea for sure, but don't have the deep learning chops to
> pull it off yet.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 1:21 PM João Pais  wrote:
> 
> > Hi William,
> > nice that you made this also for mac. I'm thinking that since each version
> > of the object is in a different repository (I have the windows version, you
> > have mac, and Chikashi has linux), would it make sense to cross-reference
> > them? I guess putting them all together might be too much.
> >
> > I haven't used my leap too much, mostly because after some performances I
> > wanted to use more complex control such as gestures. But I couldn't program
> > anything myself, and didn't find any way of using e.g. machine learning or
> > similar for that. Is this some kind of work you also do? Could you
> > recommend any such libraries, even if not for Pd?
> >
> > Best,
> > Joao
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > After years of using Chikashi Miyama's [leapmotion] object, I decided to
> > fork his repo in order to make some changes and build against the most
> > recently available Leap SDK for macOS (2.3.1). Information about specific
> > changes can be found by visiting the repo:
> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/wbrent/leapmotion__;!!Mih3wA!Haw4yo5G_N5jRUNIA9_p9jl43vxppxKYmzyb0cOH8fDT60JS_bGp2awgbPKBnG_tJAvFw6e-Sm3NTvTeC8Q$
> >  . I've also uploaded deken packages
> > for macOS/Intel and Linux.
> >
> > Note that this external is for the original Leap Motion Controller, and
> > not the current Ultraleap Controller. I may keep working on this in order
> > to use the latest Leap SDK (5.7.2) for Ultraleap compatibility under Linux
> > and Windows, but there seems to be no plan for supporting that device under
> > macOS, hence the freeze at SDK 2.3.1 for now...
> >
> > I hope it's helpful to someone out there!
> > William
> >
> >
> > --
> > William Brent
> >
> > “Great minds flock together”
> > Conflations: conversational idiom for the 21st century
> >
> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.conflations.com__;!!Mih3wA!Haw4yo5G_N5jRUNIA9_p9jl43vxppxKYmzyb0cOH8fDT60JS_bGp2awgbPKBnG_tJAvFw6e-Sm3NGVm-xgo$
> >  
> >
> > ___
> > Pd-announce mailing 
> > listpd-annou...@lists.iem.athttps://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce
> >
> > --
> > Manteuffelstr. 19
> > 10997 Berlin (Deutschland)
> > Tel +49 30 74921288 | Mob +49 176 98476769jmmmp...@gmail.com | skype: 
> > jmmmpjmmmphttps://www.facebook.com/jmmmpais
> >
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> >  
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> William Brent
> 
> “Great minds flock together”
> Conflations: conversational idiom for the 21st century
> 
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.conflations.com__;!!Mih3wA!Haw4yo5G_N5jRUNIA9_p9jl43vxppxKYmzyb0cOH8fDT60JS_bGp2awgbPKBnG_tJAvFw6e-Sm3NGVm-xgo$
>  

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[PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.53-1 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-announce]

To Pd-announce:

Pd version 0.53-1 is available from http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
or (source only) via github: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data

I have access again to my old Mac so I was slao able to bring the macOS7
64- and 32-bit apps up to date.

cheers
Miller



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[PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.53-1test1 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-announce]

To Pd-announce:

Pd version 0.53-1test1 available from http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
or (source only) via github: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data .

I've already updated the translations since then, so no worries about that
(I think).  Otherwise, as always, if anything seems broken you can let the
pd list know, or write me personally.  I'll plan to finalize pd 0.53-1 later
this week.

cheers
Miller



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Re: [PD] metro and dsp error interacting

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

I've seen something slightly related, which is that if Pd is running without 
audio while a machine is in the "suspend" state, then when it wakes up it goes 
mad trying to catch up with all the elapsed time.  But other than that I've not 
seen Pd's non-audio timing fail the way yuo described.  Can you give a bit more 
detail as to what seems to bring the behavior on?

cheers

M

On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 12:47:27PM +0100, Simon Iten wrote:
> hi,
> 
> i have pd 0.52 running on a raspberry 4 for an art installation.
> 
> i don't need audio, so initially i disabled the dsp. i noticed that
> occasionally a [metro 1000] that i loadbanged was banging constantly (very
> very fast). after i enabled the dsp, this does not happen anymore. however,
> as soon as i get an audio i/o error, the metro just stops outputting bangs.
> is this a known bug? if so, is there some way around it? or ist this a
> raspberry specific issue?

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Re: [PD] Pd freezing on Mac Ventura 13.0

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

I don't have access to any ventura machines but would like to hear more about
this.  Looking down the portaudio github for the last year I don't see anything
about breakage on Ventura.

We can count on Apple though to break stuff on every OS release, harrumph.

Miller

On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 09:34:00AM -0500, Rick Snow wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Is anyone able to get PD 53.0 to work on Mac Ventura?  I have a student with 
> and PD 53 and 52 are freezing after a few minutes.  Changing the audio device 
> will cause it to freeze almost immediately.
> 
> Thanks!
> Rick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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>   



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[PD] [PD-announce] Pd 0.53- released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-announce]

To Pd-announce:

Pd version 0.53-0 is available from http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
or (source only) via github: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data

cheers
Miller



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[PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.53-0test3 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-announce]

OK, Pd 0.53-0test3 !

http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data

I think this one has all teh show-stoppers resolved.
cheers
Miller




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Re: [PD] Pd 0.53-0test2 scrollers

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

OK, I think the scrollbar test is working now.  However, all the IEMGUIs
still make empty strings above themselves causing unnecessary scrollbars to
appear.  I think the fix should be either to not draw them at all (that
would be best?) or to put them back where they were in 0.52.

cheers
Miller

On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 06:53:13PM -0700, Miller Puckette via Pd-list wrote:
> Aha it's that fucking VU meter - it's now drawing something that pokes way
> north of what's visible.
> 
> On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 06:50:02PM -0700, Miller Puckette via Pd-list wrote:
> > Oops, there's more than that.  I was wrong - the empty string is always
> > displayed in 0.52-2 or 0.53-0, but in 0.53-0 it was moved above the toggle
> > and since it has height but no width, the window thinks the toggle extends 
> > the
> > hight of a character higher than it does.  In 0.52-2 it's 2 pixels to the
> > right and having zero width it protrudes much less.
> > 
> > However, restoring a saved toggle from 0.52-2 gives the same old behavior,
> > so even though this is an annoyance (which perhaps we should change back?)
> > it's not the same problem you found.
> > 
> > M
> > On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 06:35:05PM -0700, Miller Puckette via Pd-list wrote:
> > > I'm getting the same problem on linux... and 0.52-2 is working correctly.
> > > 
> > > It looks like IEM GUIs are displaying empty strings above themselves by 
> > > default
> > > (you can see this by making a new toggle and moving it close to the top 
> > > of the
> > > window).  At some point I "fixed" this by suppressing displaying empty 
> > > labels -
> > > this must have been reintroduced.
> > > 
> > > I'm glad you spotted this one...
> > > 
> > > cheers
> > > M
> > > On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 01:11:59AM +0200, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> > > > Howdy all,
> > > > 
> > > > running the 0.53-test2 macOS build, I noticed that opening 
> > > > doc/7.stuff/tools/sizingtest.pd from the Help Browser opens the patch 
> > > > with the scrollbars showing, even though there should be enough 
> > > > whitespace around all borders.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Dan Wilcox
> > > > @danomatika 
> > > > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://twitter.com/danomatika__;!!Mih3wA!BtaKlVSGsZf-A4KY3bRTCCILzVHFlc2-HpOh_xLLzsI6fObSqkou1ZGF_3p6-4ShIcjsoEP6ScsB-_o$
> > > >   >
> > > > danomatika.com 
> > > > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://danomatika.com/__;!!Mih3wA!BtaKlVSGsZf-A4KY3bRTCCILzVHFlc2-HpOh_xLLzsI6fObSqkou1ZGF_3p6-4ShIcjsoEP6bPntpzo$
> > > >   >
> > > > robotcowboy.com 
> > > > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://robotcowboy.com/__;!!Mih3wA!BtaKlVSGsZf-A4KY3bRTCCILzVHFlc2-HpOh_xLLzsI6fObSqkou1ZGF_3p6-4ShIcjsoEP6zdAU_s8$
> > > >   >
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ___
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> > >   
> > 
> > 
> > 
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> 
> 
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Re: [PD] Pd 0.53-0test2 scrollers

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Aha it's that fucking VU meter - it's now drawing something that pokes way
north of what's visible.

On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 06:50:02PM -0700, Miller Puckette via Pd-list wrote:
> Oops, there's more than that.  I was wrong - the empty string is always
> displayed in 0.52-2 or 0.53-0, but in 0.53-0 it was moved above the toggle
> and since it has height but no width, the window thinks the toggle extends the
> hight of a character higher than it does.  In 0.52-2 it's 2 pixels to the
> right and having zero width it protrudes much less.
> 
> However, restoring a saved toggle from 0.52-2 gives the same old behavior,
> so even though this is an annoyance (which perhaps we should change back?)
> it's not the same problem you found.
> 
> M
> On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 06:35:05PM -0700, Miller Puckette via Pd-list wrote:
> > I'm getting the same problem on linux... and 0.52-2 is working correctly.
> > 
> > It looks like IEM GUIs are displaying empty strings above themselves by 
> > default
> > (you can see this by making a new toggle and moving it close to the top of 
> > the
> > window).  At some point I "fixed" this by suppressing displaying empty 
> > labels -
> > this must have been reintroduced.
> > 
> > I'm glad you spotted this one...
> > 
> > cheers
> > M
> > On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 01:11:59AM +0200, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> > > Howdy all,
> > > 
> > > running the 0.53-test2 macOS build, I noticed that opening 
> > > doc/7.stuff/tools/sizingtest.pd from the Help Browser opens the patch 
> > > with the scrollbars showing, even though there should be enough 
> > > whitespace around all borders.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Dan Wilcox
> > > @danomatika 
> > > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://twitter.com/danomatika__;!!Mih3wA!BtaKlVSGsZf-A4KY3bRTCCILzVHFlc2-HpOh_xLLzsI6fObSqkou1ZGF_3p6-4ShIcjsoEP6ScsB-_o$
> > >   >
> > > danomatika.com 
> > > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://danomatika.com/__;!!Mih3wA!BtaKlVSGsZf-A4KY3bRTCCILzVHFlc2-HpOh_xLLzsI6fObSqkou1ZGF_3p6-4ShIcjsoEP6bPntpzo$
> > >   >
> > > robotcowboy.com 
> > > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://robotcowboy.com/__;!!Mih3wA!BtaKlVSGsZf-A4KY3bRTCCILzVHFlc2-HpOh_xLLzsI6fObSqkou1ZGF_3p6-4ShIcjsoEP6zdAU_s8$
> > >   >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
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> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] Pd 0.53-0test2 scrollers

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Oops, there's more than that.  I was wrong - the empty string is always
displayed in 0.52-2 or 0.53-0, but in 0.53-0 it was moved above the toggle
and since it has height but no width, the window thinks the toggle extends the
hight of a character higher than it does.  In 0.52-2 it's 2 pixels to the
right and having zero width it protrudes much less.

However, restoring a saved toggle from 0.52-2 gives the same old behavior,
so even though this is an annoyance (which perhaps we should change back?)
it's not the same problem you found.

M
On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 06:35:05PM -0700, Miller Puckette via Pd-list wrote:
> I'm getting the same problem on linux... and 0.52-2 is working correctly.
> 
> It looks like IEM GUIs are displaying empty strings above themselves by 
> default
> (you can see this by making a new toggle and moving it close to the top of the
> window).  At some point I "fixed" this by suppressing displaying empty labels 
> -
> this must have been reintroduced.
> 
> I'm glad you spotted this one...
> 
> cheers
> M
> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 01:11:59AM +0200, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> > Howdy all,
> > 
> > running the 0.53-test2 macOS build, I noticed that opening 
> > doc/7.stuff/tools/sizingtest.pd from the Help Browser opens the patch with 
> > the scrollbars showing, even though there should be enough whitespace 
> > around all borders.
> > 
> > 
> > Dan Wilcox
> > @danomatika 
> > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://twitter.com/danomatika__;!!Mih3wA!BtaKlVSGsZf-A4KY3bRTCCILzVHFlc2-HpOh_xLLzsI6fObSqkou1ZGF_3p6-4ShIcjsoEP6ScsB-_o$
> >   >
> > danomatika.com 
> > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://danomatika.com/__;!!Mih3wA!BtaKlVSGsZf-A4KY3bRTCCILzVHFlc2-HpOh_xLLzsI6fObSqkou1ZGF_3p6-4ShIcjsoEP6bPntpzo$
> >   >
> > robotcowboy.com 
> > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://robotcowboy.com/__;!!Mih3wA!BtaKlVSGsZf-A4KY3bRTCCILzVHFlc2-HpOh_xLLzsI6fObSqkou1ZGF_3p6-4ShIcjsoEP6zdAU_s8$
> >   >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] Pd 0.53-0test2 scrollers

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

I'm getting the same problem on linux... and 0.52-2 is working correctly.

It looks like IEM GUIs are displaying empty strings above themselves by default
(you can see this by making a new toggle and moving it close to the top of the
window).  At some point I "fixed" this by suppressing displaying empty labels -
this must have been reintroduced.

I'm glad you spotted this one...

cheers
M
On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 01:11:59AM +0200, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> Howdy all,
> 
> running the 0.53-test2 macOS build, I noticed that opening 
> doc/7.stuff/tools/sizingtest.pd from the Help Browser opens the patch with 
> the scrollbars showing, even though there should be enough whitespace around 
> all borders.
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika 
>    >
> danomatika.com 
>    >
> robotcowboy.com 
>    >
> 
> 
> 



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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.53-0test2 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Aha... so the real problem is that I can't seem to push the tag I added
locally to the head up to github.  It looks like I have to tag the commit
before pushing, because tagging afterward fools git into thinking everything
is already pushed.  Live and learn...

M
On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 08:04:06PM +0200, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:
> Am 23. Oktober 2022 19:49:10 MESZ schrieb Claude Heiland-Allen 
> :
> >
> >On 23/10/2022 15:27, Miller Puckette via Pd-list wrote:
> >> On Sat, Oct 22, 2022 at 04:45:00PM -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> >>> all good, but mac binary comes out as "Pd-0.53-0test1-80-g20334410"
> >>> 
> >
> >I think this is probably related to "git describe" getting into the version 
> >string somehow.
> 
> Exactly.
> This is how the version string is generated for the dmg (and other artifacts 
> created by the CI)
> 
> 
> mfg.sfg.jfd
> IOhannes
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.53-0test2 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

No luck ("bad superblock" style messages for both hfs and hfsplus).
I'm not sure how much longer I should spend trying to fix this - I'll
be able to get on a Mac Tuesday.

thanks
M

On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 05:23:14PM +0200, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> You can mount a dmg (disk image). Something like:
> 
> sudo mount -t hfs -o loop Pd-1.2.3.dmg /media/pd-dmg
> 
> If that doesn't work, then try hfsplus
> 
> > On Oct 23, 2022, at 5:05 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> > 
> > (I don't have a mac
> > handy and have no idea how to open a "dmg" on my linux box :)
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika 
>    >
> danomatika.com 
>    >
> robotcowboy.com 
>    >
> 
> 
> 



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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.53-0test2 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Hi Alexandre -

This sounds a bit mysterious and might be a problem or might not...
could you (or anyone) download this one:

http://msp.ucsd.edu/tmp/pd-macos-5c4f7554.zip

... and see what the app is named when you unpack it?  (I don't have a mac
handy and have no idea how to open a "dmg" on my linux box :)

thanks
M
On Sat, Oct 22, 2022 at 04:45:00PM -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> all good, but mac binary comes out as "Pd-0.53-0test1-80-g20334410"
> 
> Em sáb., 22 de out. de 2022 às 15:11, Miller Puckette via Pd-announce <
> pd-annou...@lists.iem.at> escreveu:
> 
> > To Pd-announce:
> >
> > Pd version 0.53-0test2 is available from http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
> > or (source only) via github: 
> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data__;!!Mih3wA!EiLyeBaOAXyr8pr6xa6UHQZCFWFVESrMXTUnLkFCwqOwecYUWYBLAwH9LqxjG4dXd7xdgNLEDA$
> >   
> >
> > This contains more bug fixes and documentation updates.
> >
> > Iohannes is still working on an update to teh string translation
> > mechanism; I'm planning to incorporate that into the final release,
> > hopefully early next week.
> >
> > cheers
> > Miller
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce__;!!Mih3wA!EiLyeBaOAXyr8pr6xa6UHQZCFWFVESrMXTUnLkFCwqOwecYUWYBLAwH9LqxjG4dXd7zG_xSwig$
> >   
> >
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> >   
> >



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[PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.53-0test2 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-announce]

To Pd-announce:

Pd version 0.53-0test2 is available from http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
or (source only) via github: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data

This contains more bug fixes and documentation updates.

Iohannes is still working on an update to teh string translation
mechanism; I'm planning to incorporate that into the final release,
hopefully early next week.

cheers
Miller



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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.53-0test1 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Right, that's part of the IEMGUI rewrite... I stuck a quick reference to it in 
the release notes
(but missed getting it in "test2").

I think it's an improvement...
cheers
M
On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 06:23:29PM +0200, Giulio Moro wrote:
> I am sorry if this conversation has taken place before and I missed it, but 
> is it expected that the default parameters (size etc) for most (all?) iemguis 
> has changed with 0.53 compared to 0.52 (and possibly all previous versions)?
> E.g.:
> hsl
>  width: 128->162
>  height: 15->19
>  label font size: 10->12
>  y-offset: -8->-10
> tgl:
>  Size: 15->9
>  label font size: 10->12
>  X-offset: 17->0
>  Y-offset: 7->-10
> 
> I am asking because it's quite a big change in look and this was meant to be 
> a minor release ... and it's not mentioned in the changelog
> 
> Thanks,
> Giulio
> 
> 
> Alexandre Torres Porres wrote on 16/10/2022 22:49:
> > Em dom., 16 de out. de 2022 às 16:34, Miller Puckette via Pd-announce 
> > mailto:pd-annou...@lists.iem.at>> escreveu:
> > 
> > To Pd-announce:
> > 
> > Pd version 0.53-0test1 is available from 
> > http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
> > or (source only) via github: 
> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data__;!!Mih3wA!CmMk71zjht6QfgX6PR2euQcMXUh--N6-xAOaqCMwNBm5X3j1_8NR6cvw-S0ZaParCVfFatUcPQfSufPRmw$
> > 
> > This is a test version that mostly just fixes bugs in version 0.52, 
> > including
> > one serious problem reading soundfiles.
> > 
> > 
> > Great, I imagine the actual final version should come quite soon.
> > 
> > I'll have a look to see if I can add a couple more documentation updates, I 
> > just found a typo in the [nbx] help file. I can also suggest more details 
> > to the release notes in the manual. We can mention the new deken version, 
> > and I can say there is at least one new feature, which is the unification 
> > of vertical and horizontal sliders and radio buttons, which can now have 
> > their orientation changed via the 'orientation' message. Maybe we can add 
> > that (I'll send a commit as a suggestion soon).
> > 
> > 
> > cheers
> > Miller
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
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[PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.53-0test1 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-announce]

To Pd-announce:

Pd version 0.53-0test1 is available from http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
or (source only) via github: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data

This is a test version that mostly just fixes bugs in version 0.52, including
one serious problem reading soundfiles.

cheers
Miller



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Re: [PD] Alternative for array to show curves?

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Hi Ingo and all -

This reminds me of a problem I had 15 or 20 years ago, in which the (ASCII)
communications between Pd and the GUI would sometimes choke under heavy
volumes - perhaps because teh GUI wasn't reading stuff as fast as Od was
trying to spit it out.

This would be dependent on the relative timing of the Pd and GUI processes,
which could easily be quite different on Pi than on Intel machines.

If you're willing to zip it up into an archive i can test, I'd be happy to give
it a try on my own Pi and see if I can get the same thing to happen.

cheers
Miller

On Sun, Oct 09, 2022 at 10:16:40AM +0200, Ingo wrote:
> Hello everyone!
> 
> I'm having trouble on the Raspberry Pi 4  with showing arrays reliably with
> Pd 0.51 and Raspbian OS.
> 
>  
> 
> I must say that the patch is a graphical synth editor with over 500
> parameters. So it's quite large which could be part of the problem.
> 
> It takes 5-8 seconds on the Pi to open it.
> 
> I tried setting the Pi's graphics memory from the default of 64 MB to 256 MB
> but this did not change anything, though!
> 
>  
> 
> When opening the editor patch all graphics - like number boxes, etc. - might
> or might not work for the first time.
> 
> When reopening it one or several times most standard graphical objects like
> number boxes, faders, radio buttons etc. stop to updates their graphics.
> 
> So do the arrays!
> 
> After they are disabled once they are guaranteed to not work anymore until I
> restart.
> 
>  
> 
> I have already spent countless hours in replacing number boxes and faders
> with using canvases on top of the number boxes and faders.
> 
> Instead of radio buttons I use dropdown menus.
> 
>  
> 
> The number boxes and faders do actally work and send values but do not
> update their graphics.
> 
> So I'm sending their output to a canvas on top of the number box for
> displaying their values now - which actually looks better!
> 
> All graphics are working now like this on the Raspberry Pi - with the
> exception of the still missing arrays that I need for showing MIDI CC
> curves.
> 
>  
> 
> Let me add that I had never any issues like that on Intel or AMD processors
> over the last 10 years.
> 
> It only happens on the Paspberry Pi.
> 
> The same software always runs flawlessly on these other systems updating all
> graphics normally as they should.
> 
>  
> 
> ___
> 
> What I'm looking for now as my last problem solver is an external that will
> be able to show simple curves.
> 
> Is there anything that is not based on TCL/TK?
> 
> (I'm suspecting TCL/TK to treat all of these objects like being unvisable in
> the background and disabling their graphics - but I'm not sure.)
> 
>  
> 
> Or would there possibly be a way to send curves instead of just text to a
> canvas?
> 
>  
> 
> Alternatively a way to reenable the graphical update would work as well.
> 
>  
> 
> Data structures might be an option. Can someone point me to tutorials for
> data structers?
> 
>  
> 
> I know that I still have the option to make a namber of gifs that could be
> recalled with [image] but that's my last resort for now.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks for any suggestion!
> 
> Ingo
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 

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[PD] [OT} faculty job at UCSD, deadline Nov. 1

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

To Pd list -

UCSD is hiring an assistant professor starting next fall.  First application 
deadline is this Nov. 1.  Job announcement is here: 
https://apol-recruit.ucsd.edu/JPF03295

Quoting from the ad:

...broad expertise in computer and electronic music. Possible areas of research 
specialization may include: sound synthesis and processing, interaction and 
sound design, game sound, machine learning, virtual and augmented reality as 
applied to music and sound.

cheers
Miller



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Re: [PD] Using Teensy as midi compliant device

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

MIDI messages only go out to one device - so to send to
device 2 you send to MIDI "channel" 17 to 32.  In this
case, probably 18 (channel 2 on device number 2).

cheers
Miller


On Mon, Apr 18, 2022 at 05:28:04PM -0500, Rick Snow wrote:
> Hello!
> 
> I am working to use two Teensy devices as midi compliant devices to control a 
> set of motors with PD.  I have each one working as expected.  One Teensy 
> expects midi info on Channel 1 and the other on Channel 2.  Each Teensy 
> Device is given its own name.  When I try to use them both at the same time 
> (plug in both to my Mac) I can see both of them in the Midi Devices.  
> However, only the first one I choose will accept midi values and move the 
> motors.  Whichever one I choose second will not react when I send it midi 
> data.
> 
> Anyone else worked with multiple Teensy Midi devices and PD?
> 
> Cheers,
> Rick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] why units per pixel: -1 by default on subpatches?

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Because when just making a patch the origin is conventionally top left,
not bottom left.  So pixels count downward, and if you want "y" to increase
as you go up, that's the opposite dorection.

Just install a mirror on your desktop and look at your screen downward
through it, and you'll see 'y' increase upward when 'scale' is set to 1 :)

M

On Mon, Mar 28, 2022 at 10:34:37PM -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> Hi, I believe this must have been discussed before... it's surely known. I
> wonder why when you add a subpatch the 'scale' section has an inverted "-1"
> scale for the vertical axis. This is particularly bad for display data
> structures and needs to be corrected by hand.
> 
> Should I open a request to change this default parameter?
> 
> cheers

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Re: [PD] consistency check failed: drawline

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Interesting - that's a bit of code nobody's touched for at least 15 years.

The next thing I'd do would be to try to run the project under a memory-
integrity-checking system (I use valgrind in linux to do this).

If you'd be willing to send me the project (or even better if you can reduce
the size of the patch without losing the symptom) I'd be happy to try that.

My guess is the trouble is coming from something far removed from the line
of code that's printing the message...

thanks
Miller

On Wed, Mar 30, 2022 at 10:25:16AM -0500, José Rafael Subía Valdez wrote:
> Hello List
> 
> I just downloaded and installed the latest Pd 0.52-2. But if I open a
> project of mine and close it I get the message (messages come up when I
> cles the patch)
> "consistency check failed: drawline"
> 
> the patch opened and closed with no problem in previous versions of Pd, I
> had no error warning like this.
> 
> So my question is, what can be causing this? How can I narrow this down?
> where should I start looking whats going on?
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> -- 
> José Rafael Subía Valdez
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.jrsv.net=DwIFaQ=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=Yp_pekhbODAJ7EN5gKYOMNC9K0J5rl14KSypMc7FNoSC6XdfVygTHutmuRUzdhEk=ZYHMvzU6vn09d7OHAVlsFE-xcKs5TvFf_pG3FFyUtJ0=
>  
> 
> 
> *"...I am an Anarchist! Wherefore I will*
> *Not rule, and also ruled I will not be!"*
> 
> - John Henry Mackay -

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[PD] [PD-announce] Pd 0.52-2 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-announce]

To Pd-announce:

Pd version 0.52-2 is available from http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
or (source only) via github: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data .

cheers
Miller



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[PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.52-2 test version 1 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-announce]

To Pd-announce:

Pd version 0.52-2test1 is available from http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
or (source only) via github: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data

cheers
Miller



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Re: [PD] Pd 0.52-1 - frozen dsp and gui in ubuntu 20.04

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

I think the bug report isn't needed, thanks.

Meanwhile, yes, it would be appropriate to print a message that the delay
got reset, and yes, please do throw it in the develop PR.

thanks
M

On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 12:43:08PM -0300, Bruno Rohde wrote:
> As it looks like you guys are working on a quick and simple solution, I'll
> wait a bit to see if it's really necessary to file a bug. If it's still
> relevant, I can do it later.
> 
> Em ter., 22 de mar. de 2022 às 12:33, Christof Ressi 
> escreveu:
> 
> > > Of course, now the displayed settings doesn't always reflect the setting
> > used internally.
> > We could post a little notice that the delay setting has been capped.
> > Probably also for the ASIO backend. But that's just cosmetics.
> >
> > @umlaeute: should I push the quick fix below to develop?
> >
> > Christof
> >
> > On 22.03.2022 16:26, Roman Haefeli wrote:
> > > On Tue, 2022-03-22 at 16:00 +0100, Christof Ressi wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I think the solution is simple:
> > >>
> > >> In jack_open_audio() replace
> > >>
> > >> if (advance_samples < DEFDACBLKSIZE)
> > >>  advance_samples = DEFDACBLKSIZE;
> > >> with
> > >>
> > >> if (advance_samples < jack_blocksize)
> > >>  advance_samples = jack_blocksize;
> > >> @Roman: can you give this a try?
> > > Yeah, it works. Now - without callbacks - it works with any setting for
> > > 'delay (ms)'. Of course, now the displayed settings doesn't always
> > > reflect the setting used internally.
> > >
> > > Roman
> > >
> > >
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> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Bruno Faria Rohde

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Re: [PD] delwrite~ delread4~ name of delay line not settable?

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

You can use tabsend~ and tabreceive~ (with the same name) - whatever you
put into tabsend~ wil come out of the tabreceive~ in the next cloned
instance.

all best,
Miller
On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 10:40:23AM +0100, Max wrote:
> vd~ is just an alias for delread4~. I don't see a set message for them in
> the source.
> 
> 
> On 14.03.22 06:59, Johnny Mauser wrote:
> > If i remember correct, i used [vd~] for such a case!?
> > 
> > Max mailto:abonneme...@revolwear.com>>
> > schrieb am So., 13. März 2022, 23:25:
> > 
> > Is the name of the delay line written to and read from in delwrite~ and
> > delread4~ settable by messages?
> > If not, is it intentional or could this feature be added?
> > I want to send from one clone(d) instance to the next via delay lines,
> > so I need to change the names.
> > 
> > M.
> > 
> > 
> > 
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> >  > >
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] Different [random] behaviour between macOS & linux?

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Each time a [random] is created it gets a new (pseudo-random) seed - so if
you want total repeatability you should exit and restart Pd.  Then you should
see exactly the same behavior on linux and on Mac.

cheers
Miller

On Thu, Mar 10, 2022 at 12:04:15PM +0100, Yann Seznec wrote:
> Hi! Here's thing I’m confused about…if I use [random] to generate some 
> numbers on startup, it appears to have different behaviour on macOS and on 
> linux (running on a raspberry pi). 
> 
> With a very simple patch generate a stream of random numbers using [random] 
> (with no seed) and printing to console, on macOS it will create a different 
> random set every time I launch the patch. On linux, it will generate the same 
> set of numbers each time the patch is launched. It feels to me like the 
> [random] object on linux is using the same seed each time, whereas on macOS 
> it is either using a new seed each time or just not using a seed at all (if 
> that’s possible, I’m clearly no random number specialist). 
> 
> Any thoughts appreciated. Thanks!
> Yann
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] what's the 3rd value of bonk~'s cooked output?

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

It's teh 'center of gravity' of the bonk spectrum, that is, the centroid
of the spectrum considered as a distribution.  It's intended to be a
sort of 'spectral centroid' along the lines of David Wessel's old idea,
but measuring the centroid in 'bonk's might correlate bette with perceived
brilliance.  The word 'temperature' is intended as an analog to
'color temperature' which I believe is a corresponding concept for
optical spectra.

cheers
Miller

On Sat, Feb 26, 2022 at 01:33:20PM -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> Hi, there's a third value output in the 'cooked' list that the
> documentation doesn't explain, but the code refers to as 'temperature'.
> Does anybody know what it is? Miller? :)
> 
> Opened an issue for it => 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_pure-2Ddata_pure-2Ddata_issues_1578=DwIBaQ=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=FOCEpZf64xKPoFcLfIUhrUYIC6pSjp-MRlntzZkj4AcccVItkZOUfYOgkvvC3d0a=36nRHRaosPJ4hgYaiYsFq4o3tSlYp3lcUMeGTyQxNDc=
>  
> 
> btw, this is me revising and going over the whole documentation of Pd and
> writing quick references. Almost done!
> 
> cheers



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Re: [PD] different float accuracy betw. Pd-0.52-1-msw-i386 and Pd-0.52-1-msw-amd64

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Just to ad tothe confusion ... I'm running tests ("reality check") to see
of Pd runs musical pieces the same way on diffrent machines.  I found that
AMD64 Pd on linux and on MacOS (both 64-bit Intel CPUs) gave slightly
different results, off by less thatn a part in a million (10^-6 error).
But.. the MacOS test gave the identical same result as a Raspberry Pi, which
is in 32 bits and has an ARM processor.

I _think_ linux and MACOS are setting different rounding modes in the
processor, but haven't takent the time to try to figure it out.

cheers
Miller

On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 11:25:26PM +0100, Christof Ressi wrote:
> > However, what worries me is that if I run a Pd vanilla patch on
> > different Pd versions (i386 or amd64) with the same floating point
> > precision, I expect the same results.
> Generally, you can't really expect that. Even without -ffast-math, different
> CPU architectures or instruction sets will give slightly different results
> (unless you jump through various hoops).
> 
> Here's an interesting article by a game developer: 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gafferongames.com_post_floating-5Fpoint-5Fdeterminism_=DwICAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=APlmOH6-SnFCR7Jvr5B5Sup5Bjb4le7rctP34Mrr9Y-4wQA2jiIang6E8-_797z3=uDkC4rfduQLn3ViZe_SQnSi3i6yQHuLVgwGP64klfN4=
> 
> Usually, these errors are very small, but with (suboptimal) recursive
> algorithms they can get amplified significantly. Your patch is a very
> striking demonstration of the problems with the direct 2 form of the biquad
> filter :-)
> 
> Christof
> 
> On 11.02.2022 23:11, mu...@iem.at wrote:
> > 
> > Zitat von Christof Ressi :
> > 
> > > That's only half the story. Generally, one shouldn't expect floating
> > > point computations to yield the exact same result with different
> > > compilers/machines. The rounding errors themselves are very small,
> > > but they can accumulate over long periods of time or get amplified
> > > by recursive algorithms.
> > > I've made an alternative implementation [biquad2~] that uses direct
> > > form 1. It shows significantly less noise than the [biquad~]
> > > examples. See attachments.
> > 
> > That's right what you wrote.
> > However, what worries me is that if I run a Pd vanilla patch on
> > different Pd versions (i386 or amd64) with the same floating point
> > precision, I expect the same results.
> > 
> > e.g. the test patch running on Pd-0.52-1-xxx-i386 produces -60dB low
> > frequency spikes, the identical patch running on Pd-0.52-1-xxx-amd64
> > produces -34dB high frequency bursts. And that's a realistic simple
> > situation, a microphone signal feeds a 3rd order high pass filter.
> > 
> > Thomas Musil
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
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Re: [PD] KDE: how to change window color, too dark...

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Hi Rafael -

I don't know why the colors aren't the standard (black and white) that are 
baked into
the Pd code.  Pd should be ignoring the theme setting on your desktop.

Just for a test, can you see if the colors change when you change your theme?

cheers
Miller

On Tue, Feb 01, 2022 at 09:50:42PM +0100, rafael.racc...@blindekinder.com wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm on KDE, the main theme is Breeze. Most apps are ok, but PD is too dark,
> with few contrast (black on dark grey), and I cant know if checkboxes are
> checked or not (light grey on white).
> I use PD 0.50.
> 
> How can I change the colors?
> 
> thank you!
> 
> rph-r

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Re: [PD] [sfinfo~]

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Yep, I can think of other reasons you'd want to know the size of a soundfile
in a Pd patch without having to read the whole thing in.

cheers
M

On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 07:32:02PM +, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay wrote:
> > I forgot is even simpler (no need for an array)
> 
> Oh la la this is embarrassing. I didn’t know one could not supply an array… 
> but that way I don’t get the size of the file in frames.
> 
> > Are you doing stuff that "soundfiler" doesn't?  If so, it would be better 
> > to add to the soundfiler object than to add a new object with its own name.
> 
> 
> Indeed Miller I’ll do a PR to add it at the end then. I get everything else 
> with soundfiler
> 
> For info, I need the size of the sum of my sound files in frames and in 
> channels to allocate the right size once. I do that in Max and SC doing 2 
> passes, once to read the headers and accumulate what I need in both 
> dimensions (and capture the SR at the same time) then I assign then I read 
> and copy. For large corpora, this is useful.
> 
> So the proposal is not so big and bold as my first email… but still a needed 
> feature.



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Re: [PD] [sfinfo~]

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Excellent - nothing to do then.  My favorite kind of dolist.

cheers
M

On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 07:37:04PM +, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay wrote:
> Wait - this is embarrassing, it seems that the left outlet still spits out 
> the number of samples when there are no destination arrays so I should be 
> golden…
> 
> I probably need a weekend. Sorry for the Friday night noise.
> 
> > On 28 Jan 2022, at 19:35, Miller Puckette  wrote:
> > 
> > Yep, I can think of other reasons you'd want to know the size of a soundfile
> > in a Pd patch without having to read the whole thing in.
> > 
> > cheers
> > M
> > 
> > On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 07:32:02PM +, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay wrote:
> >>> I forgot is even simpler (no need for an array)
> >> 
> >> Oh la la this is embarrassing. I didn’t know one could not supply an 
> >> array… but that way I don’t get the size of the file in frames.
> >> 
> >>> Are you doing stuff that "soundfiler" doesn't?  If so, it would be better 
> >>> to add to the soundfiler object than to add a new object with its own 
> >>> name.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Indeed Miller I’ll do a PR to add it at the end then. I get everything 
> >> else with soundfiler
> >> 
> >> For info, I need the size of the sum of my sound files in frames and in 
> >> channels to allocate the right size once. I do that in Max and SC doing 2 
> >> passes, once to read the headers and accumulate what I need in both 
> >> dimensions (and capture the SR at the same time) then I assign then I read 
> >> and copy. For large corpora, this is useful.
> >> 
> >> So the proposal is not so big and bold as my first email… but still a 
> >> needed feature.
> > 
> > 
> > 
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Re: [PD] [sfinfo~]

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Hi PA -

Are you doing stuff that "soundfiler" doesn't?  If so, it would be better
to add to the soundfiler object than to add a new object with its own name.

cheers
Miller

On Fri, Jan 28, 2022 at 06:17:21PM +, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay wrote:
> Hello again
> 
> So I was missing an object that is quite useful when dealing with audio files 
> in batches. Attached is the ugly file in progress to read (with [file]) the 
> header of audio files and demingle it to get the number of channels and 
> number of frames and sampling rate… what the Max object [sfinfo~] does.
> 
> Now I notices that the pd API offers me the headers to recode it in C - so I 
> have 2 options here
> 
> - I don’t bother anyone and I coder it as fluid.sfinfo
> - I code it as [sfinfo~] and make a PR and pray that the dev gods pick on it 
> and in the meantime I just include my PR version.
> 
> I looked in decken and couldn’t find that string (soundfile, sound file, etc) 
> so I’m pretty sure it is not there.
> 
> In all cases this is a very useful object to have. I offer my pd attempt in 
> sacrifice to the people who want to have a laugh. It kind of works… but that 
> ‘extended’ format (80 bit float anyone?) is a pain to detangle :)
> 





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Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

OK... I've put a link to Dan's version on my download page and will leave it
until the CI build is merrily building for ARM .

cheers
M

On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 05:56:40PM +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
> On 1/24/22 17:18, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> > There was an issue with building Tk Wish 8.6.12 as a universal build which 
> > stopped this for now.
> 
> no.
> this is not really true, and more importantly i think it spreads confusion.
> 
> the truth (according to john) is:
> - for newer macOS versions, miller uses binaries produced by the iem-ci
> - the iem-ci currently does not build arm64 binaries
>   - simply because the XCode version installed there is too old
> - this means that Pd-core (on the downloads) is only x86_64
> - the iem-ci does not build Tcl/Tk *at all*
>   - instead it uses a pre-built binary (similar to the one found in
> mac/stuff.tgz)
>   - this pre-built blob is Tcl/Tk-8.6.12 and it is a universal build for
> arm64 and x86_64
> 
> 
> this raises the following questions:
> Q1: why is the iem-ci not updated to a newer XCode that allows to build
> arm64 binaries for macOS?
> A1: because I haven't found the time yet to do so
> 
> Q2: why isn't Tcl/Tk build along with Pd
> A2: because I don't want our CI to spend time compiling a helper library
> that we is not actively developed by *us*
> 
> 
> because of the situation with the externals, i do not consider the current
> situation extremely bad.
> 
> 
> gfdmst
> IOhannes




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Re: [PD] JACK and blocksize

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

You can use camomile (github.com/pierreguillot/Camomile) to wrap Pd
inside a VST for 64-sample latency back and forth.

cheers
Miller

On Sun, Jan 16, 2022 at 05:38:34PM +0100, oliver wrote:
> > 
> > As for the need for it, I would personally use it, I tuned my linux
> > system to run at 16 samples but I cannot use such settings when I want
> > to run Pd (I can with Bitwig and Bespoke synth).
> 
> Sorry , a little off topic ...
> 
> how exactly did you achieve that ? could you provide some specs ?
> (linux distro, kernel, tweaks, JACK or ALSA, soundcard)
> 
> i never succeeded in getting any reasonable latency out of BITWIG (the
> "real" latency of let's say a pushed midi trigger and the soundfile in a
> slot being started was always much bigger than stated), so i ditched it in
> the end.
> 
> BESPOKE looks awesome, will dig into it ...
> 
> FWIW, i find REAPER a great program to team up with PD (via OSC
> communication), though i'm still not at the desired latency i'm looking for
> (any "real" latency less than 10ms would be fine with me)
> 
> 
> 
> thanks for any hints
> 
> best
> 
> oliver
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] [file]: paths not relative to patch

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

The confusion is my fault... "." never really meant current working directory,
it just means "THIS directory here".  I.E., it could mean any #$^#$ thing at
all :)

M

On Sat, Jan 08, 2022 at 10:42:35AM +0100, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> I agree with Roman's point that "current working directory" as an idea is 
> different, depending on the user. For some, it will be relative to the patch, 
> for others it will be relative to the shell (and the resulting programs 
> launched by it). I agree it makes technical sense that [file] would be 
> relative to the Pd process, knowing the C api behind it, but for many it's a 
> bit of friction for sure since it's something that now works different from 
> other objects which handle paths implicitly. Additionally, I think it's 
> perhaps a stretch to assume most beginners are aware of how shells and paths 
> work.
> 
> If it were up to me, I would make [file] work like the other objects and 
> treat relative paths as relative to the canvas. OTOH I know this could 
> complicate the implementation. I think at the very least, this difference 
> needs to be well documented with the requisite canvas-oriented approaches 
> documented. Forgive me if they are already as I've not used [file] yet, but 
> Roman's question indicates to me perhaps not everything is covered yet. ;)
> 
> Another approach is to provide a very explicit option to get the patch canvas 
> location which fits into the api ala [file patchdir] or [file canvasdir]. I 
> know this is probably redundant to [pdcontrol] but perhaps helps with the 
> distinction..?
> 
> > On Jan 8, 2022, at 1:07 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> > 
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2022 01:07:48 +0100
> > From: Christof Ressi  > >
> > To: Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> > Subject: Re: [PD] [file]: paths not relative to patch
> > Message-ID: <0d33e805-37ff-4988-d50e-29eb3d86d...@christofressi.com 
> > >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> > 
> >> If I pass a relative path to such an utility, I want it to resolve to 
> >> the current working directy and *not* to the Pd patch itself. 
> > In practice, I almost wrap such utilities in a shell script anyway and 
> > there I would turn relative path arguments into absolute paths before 
> > passing them on to Pd. But I just wanted to show that the current 
> > directory is not completely useless.
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika 
>   >
> danomatika.com 
>   >
> robotcowboy.com 
>   >
> 
> 
> 

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[PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.52-1 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-announce]

To Pd-announce:

Pd version 0.52-1 is available from http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
or (source only) via github: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data

cheers
Miller



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Re: [PD] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Iohannes's builds are compiled for both IA64 and arm64.  Incidentally, i heard
from one informal tester that the arm64 version runs way faster in an M1 machine
than the older ia64-only builds.  No surprise there, but nice to hear.

cheers
M

On Thu, Dec 16, 2021 at 05:38:47PM +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
> 
> On 12/16/21 15:28, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> > 
> > First, replying to emails from pd-announce sends to 'pd-l...@iem.at' and
> > not 'pd-list@lists.iem.at', which results in undeliverable messages that
> > return back.
> 
> thanks for finding the long lost reference to the old and outdated address.
> it's now fixed.
> 
> > Questions: - Will we provide downloads for M1 macs?
> 
> most likely not.
> 
> gfmasdr
> IOhannes




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[PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.52-0 test 4 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-announce]

OK, here's "test 4", which I believe runs on all reasonable platforms and
is compatible with the newest Jack:

http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
or (source only) https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data

cheers
Miller



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Re: [PD] JACK on macOS

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Excellent.. I think it's time for test4 :)

M

On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 09:22:51AM -0500, William Brent wrote:
> For me, IOhannes' latest build (
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__git.iem.at_pd_pure-2Ddata_-2D_jobs_33818_artifacts_file_Pd-2D0.52-2D0test3-2D2-2Dg6ca9539f.dmg=DwIFaQ=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=fl57PEVI5mP734J4WxD5hjIoB0msU2LZPA4FnonAJwj9UJC2JkEeznls80b9dxEW=xLhzmvDU_SibT-v7sYsFHVf1EgZxJdWAd-7ShahCSpM=
>  )
> and Dan's recent build (
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__docs.danomatika.com_pdbuilds_0.52_Pd-2D0.52-2D0test3-2Dx86-5F64-2Djack.zip=DwIFaQ=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=fl57PEVI5mP734J4WxD5hjIoB0msU2LZPA4FnonAJwj9UJC2JkEeznls80b9dxEW=Uyotyn_b1MYhN70Wdi9BUjs27lIlb4AL2H-lJjuVi4E=
>  )
> work on Big Sur 11.6.1 *without* callbacks enabled. I've done a lot of work
> with Pd/JACK and have never enabled callbacks.
> 
> On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 9:01 AM Christof Ressi 
> wrote:
> 
> > this must be a bug then... I don't see why Jack should only work with
> > "callbacks" enabled.
> > On 14.12.2021 14:51, Csaba Láng wrote:
> >
> > I confirm Jack works on Big Sur with using callback in the audio settings.
> >
> > Thanks for the hint.
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 2:16 PM William Brent 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Good news - this new build is indeed working for me with JACK 1.9.19 on
> >> Big Sur 11.6.1 (Intel 64bit hardware). I'll update my comment on the ticket
> >> to document it. Thanks IOhannes!
> >>
> >> On Tue, Dec 14, 2021 at 4:37 AM IOhannes m zmoelnig 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> On 12/13/21 22:06, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:
> >>>  >
> >>>  >
> >>>  > once it finished building, the dmg will be available on
> >>> <
> >>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__git.iem.at_pd_pure-2Ddata_-2D_jobs_33818_artifacts_file_Pd-2D0.52-2D0test3-2D2-2Dg6ca9539f.dmg=DwIFaQ=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=fl57PEVI5mP734J4WxD5hjIoB0msU2LZPA4FnonAJwj9UJC2JkEeznls80b9dxEW=xLhzmvDU_SibT-v7sYsFHVf1EgZxJdWAd-7ShahCSpM=
> >>>  >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  >
> >>>  > could you please be so kind and test with that version as well?
> >>>
> >>> my first tests show that this version indeed works (at least on
> >>> Catalina).
> >>> could someone on Big Sur or Monterey confirm this?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> gfsdr
> >>> IOhannes
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> PS: here's a bit more in-depth tech babble, for those interested what (I
> >>> think) is going on:
> >>>
> >>> >
> >>> > this info in the issue was incredibly helpful:
> >>> >  > JACK protocol mismatch 8
> >>> >
> >>> > afaict it tries to tell us that Pd and jackd speak different (and
> >>> > obviously incompatible) protocols.
> >>> >
> >>> > i'm currently trying to create a new binary on our CI that finally
> >>> uses
> >>> > the pre-built binaries from jackaudio.org (as dan always suggested).
> >>> >
> >>> > hopefully this will get the protocol version right.
> >>>
> >>> i now think that this was a red hering.
> >>>
> >>> the problem really seems to be that depending on whether Pd is linked
> >>> against  JACK from homebrew or jackaudio.org it will look for the
> >>> library in /usr/local/opt/jack/lib/ resp. /usr/local/lib/.
> >>> for reasons i do not fully understand yet, a homebrew-jacked Pd (that
> >>> looks for libjack.so.0.1.0 in /usr/local/opt/jack/lib/) will refuse to
> >>> load the library if it is found in /usr/local/lib/ (even though this is
> >>> a standard search path for libraries).
> >>> copying/symlinking the libjack.so to the searched for directory, makes
> >>> binaries work.
> >>>
> >>> $ mkdir /usr/local/opt/jack/lib/
> >>> $ ln -s /usr/local/lib/libjack.0.1.0.dylib /usr/local/opt/jack/lib/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> of course this is not really practical
> >>> ___
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> >>>  
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> William Brent
> >>
> >> “Great minds flock together”
> >> Conflations: conversational idiom for the 21st century
> >>
> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.conflations.com=DwIFaQ=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=fl57PEVI5mP734J4WxD5hjIoB0msU2LZPA4FnonAJwj9UJC2JkEeznls80b9dxEW=2ZWOWNRIXvgR3olfEgo4NYZw71H5hRcu5ZmSW-gdmPw=
> >>  
> >> ___
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> >>  
> >>
> >
> > 

Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd version 0.52-0test3 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

> 
> As explained in previous emails, I don't use jack from Homebrew for my 
> builds. I use the distribution from jack.org 
>   > which is equivalent to the old JackOSX distribution:
> 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__jackaudio.org_downloads_=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=ycOjZIud6YrWOk_GwSKZQH8UkGH1TeCiVsjsMIlmE_FTvOHrDlkBofF6FsBNUyl-=bfa_OxtCOIyvpdlj2NL0nPmVqj505twR0xAxEXWncog=
>   
>   >
> 
> You just need to download and run the installer on the build machine, which 
> could also be automated via a script. People needing to use jack installed 
> via Homebrew should build Pd themselves as the those libs doesn't seem to 
> enable weak linking like the ones in the installer AFAICT.
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> 

Right ho - Iohannes - I'm hoping this is something you can fix in the CI
builds (since I plan to distribute that as the up-to-date compiled version for
MacOS)

cheers
M



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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd version 0.52-0test3 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

> > 
> 
> seems to run fine on "macOS Sierra - 10.12.6"
> 
> miller: does it also run on "Mac OS X Lion - 10.7"?
> (or even "OS X Snow Leopard - 10.6"?)
> 
> gffxyd
> IOhannes

Nope - Wish 8.6.12 seems to depend on newer Mac features than are
on OSX 10.7.  

But I'm OK with continuing to compile for 10.7 on my old machine and
make it available to people like me :)

Meanwhile, the jack mystery is still unsolved as far as I know (the
brew version somehow doesn't like newest jackd?)

cheers
Miller





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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd version 0.52-0test3 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

OK, here's one that I believe has 64-bit Intel and arm64 architectures
compiled in - I compiled this remotely on a macOS 11.6.1 machine.  I
can't test it right now, but if any of you can grab and see I'd be grateful.
(this is from running Dan's script, "./tcltk-wish.sh -l --universal 8.6.12".)

This should be the same thing Dan tried that resulted in a "Damaged app" 
message on his machine - I'm just hoping that running it on a totally
different machine will help for whatever reason :)


http://msp.ucsd.edu/tmp/Wish-8.6.12.app.tgz

thanks
Miller


On Sun, Dec 12, 2021 at 11:25:46AM +0100, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> I depends on the version of Xcode and/or CLITools you have installed. It 
> needs to be new enough to support -arch arm64.
> 
> > On Dec 12, 2021, at 6:26 AM, Lucas Cordiviola  wrote:
> > 
> > The "--universal" switch didn't work on this VM: the compiler fails to 
> > build the test program at the beginning.
> > 
> > Anyway I'm leaving this VM in peace as I don't want to screw it up. I only 
> > use it to build a couple of externals.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > 
> > Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
> > On 12/11/2021 11:21 AM, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> >> For a (modern) fat build:
> >> 
> >> ./mac/tcltk-wish.sh --universal 8.6.12
> >> 
> >> However make sure to try the generated Wish-8.6.12.app. I have no problems 
> >> making a universal build, however the resulting Wish doesn't *run* and a 
> >> generated Pd.app using it as a source would not run either. I think there 
> >> is a problem with the Tk makefile "embedded" target which assembles the 
> >> Wish.app.
> >> 
> >>> On Dec 11, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at 
> >>> <mailto:pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Message: 1
> >>> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2021 02:44:38 -0300
> >>> From: Lucas Cordiviola  >>> <mailto:lucard...@hotmail.com>>
> >>> To: Miller Puckette mailto:m...@ucsd.edu>>, 
> >>> pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> >>> Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd version 0.52-0test3 released
> >>> Message-ID:
> >>>   
> >>>  >>>  
> >>> <mailto:ds7pr10mb48457d61678049d87b569aeba6...@ds7pr10mb4845.namprd10.prod.outlook.com>>
> >>>   
> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> >>> 
> >>> On 12/10/2021 11:58 PM, Miller Puckette via Pd-list wrote:
> >>>> Looks like I can get a Mac running 10.13 this Monday, so will probably
> >>>> be able to build Tcl/Tk-8.6.12 then, unless someone else does it first.
> >>>> (It's easy to do using Dan's scripts, all you need is a Mac running a
> >>>> less ancient OS than 10.7
> >>> 
> >>> I had run:
> >>> 
> >>> ?? ?mac/tcltk-wish.sh 8.6.12
> >>> 
> >>> on a VM [macOS 10.15.7] using QEMU on a Debian10 machine.
> >>> 
> >>> Here is the build (zipped) and the log:
> >>> 
> >>> ?? 
> >>> ?https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nc.nubegris.com.ar_index.php_s_AMDde4EcqZzAZBn=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=pUDUnwMwtM1gQzGh5pRh4tr1grCOQtmE2YH_fRaqZWamfq1MdtU8DW1Rnd4_-N9H=UJA5fYiHXo3ZfvcFbO8fpm-wILYKgkq06xdT5N_9VrM=
> >>>   
> >>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nc.nubegris.com.ar_index.php_s_AMDde4EcqZzAZBn=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=pUDUnwMwtM1gQzGh5pRh4tr1grCOQtmE2YH_fRaqZWamfq1MdtU8DW1Rnd4_-N9H=UJA5fYiHXo3ZfvcFbO8fpm-wILYKgkq06xdT5N_9VrM=
> >>>  >
> >>> 
> >>> On theory it should work.
> >>> 
> >>> :)
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Dan Wilcox
> >> @danomatika 
> >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_danomatika=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=pUDUnwMwtM1gQzGh5pRh4tr1grCOQtmE2YH_fRaqZWamfq1MdtU8DW1Rnd4_-N9H=cY26l8O39zpd5pFDeTEj2kdSs5LM66tusaFtLTEYGPI=
> >>  >
> >> danomatika.com 
> >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__danomatika.com_=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=pUDUnwMwtM1gQzGh5pRh4tr1grCOQtmE2YH_fRaqZWamfq1MdtU8DW1Rnd4_-N9H=3NxM-gsNTnCdJpIFEI7JUaluiwPCqqY9A-2hljwiqMc=
> >>  >
> >> robotcowboy.com 
> >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__robot

Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd version 0.52-0test3 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Looks like I can get a Mac running 10.13 this Monday, so will probably
be able to build Tcl/Tk-8.6.12 then, unless someone else does it first.
(It's easy to do using Dan's scripts, all you need is a Mac running a
less ancient OS than 10.7 :)

Miller

On Fri, Dec 10, 2021 at 12:23:24PM -0800, Miller Puckette via Pd-list wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Dec 10, 2021 at 09:20:09PM +0100, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:
> > On 12/10/21 21:11, Miller Puckette via Pd-list wrote:
> > > Looks like I'm not going to be able to get 8.6.12 running on my MACOS 10.7
> > > machine (errors compiling the event-management code - exactly the stuff
> > > that it was so miserable to get running before)...  so considering the 
> > > "main"
> > > version of Pd should run OK on 10.10 and onward, I think it's OK to just 
> > > stick
> > > with the patched 8.6.10 for the 10.7-10.9 version.
> > > 
> > 
> > darn.
> > 
> > my secret plan to solve the problem with the CI-build not starting up, was
> > actually to just use the bundled Tcl/Tk-8.6.12 (from
> > mac/stuff/wish-shell.tgz).
> > in fact i was really hoping the pre-built Tcl/Tk-8.6.12 to be a fat binary (
> > provided e.g. by Dan :-P)
> > 
> > if a pre-build Tcl/Tk-8.6.12 is not going to get into mac/stuff/ i'll need
> > to investigate into getting a life build working on the CI (again).
> > 
> > fmdfdsa
> > IOhannes
> 
> Alternatively, if someone can throw me a pre-built Tcl/Tk-8.6.12 I can just
> add it to "stuff" and leave the Tcl/Tk-8.6.10 version in there as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd version 0.52-0test3 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

On Fri, Dec 10, 2021 at 09:20:09PM +0100, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:
> On 12/10/21 21:11, Miller Puckette via Pd-list wrote:
> > Looks like I'm not going to be able to get 8.6.12 running on my MACOS 10.7
> > machine (errors compiling the event-management code - exactly the stuff
> > that it was so miserable to get running before)...  so considering the 
> > "main"
> > version of Pd should run OK on 10.10 and onward, I think it's OK to just 
> > stick
> > with the patched 8.6.10 for the 10.7-10.9 version.
> > 
> 
> darn.
> 
> my secret plan to solve the problem with the CI-build not starting up, was
> actually to just use the bundled Tcl/Tk-8.6.12 (from
> mac/stuff/wish-shell.tgz).
> in fact i was really hoping the pre-built Tcl/Tk-8.6.12 to be a fat binary (
> provided e.g. by Dan :-P)
> 
> if a pre-build Tcl/Tk-8.6.12 is not going to get into mac/stuff/ i'll need
> to investigate into getting a life build working on the CI (again).
> 
> fmdfdsa
> IOhannes

Alternatively, if someone can throw me a pre-built Tcl/Tk-8.6.12 I can just
add it to "stuff" and leave the Tcl/Tk-8.6.10 version in there as well.




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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd version 0.52-0test3 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Looks like I'm not going to be able to get 8.6.12 running on my MACOS 10.7
machine (errors compiling the event-management code - exactly the stuff
that it was so miserable to get running before)...  so considering the "main"
version of Pd should run OK on 10.10 and onward, I think it's OK to just stick
with the patched 8.6.10 for the 10.7-10.9 version.

cheers
M

On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 09:04:22PM +0100, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> Yes, major reasons to move to Tk 8.6.12 on macOS, least of which is that it 
> already incorporates all the fixes the back ported patches address as well as 
> supports a couple of things added to macOS 12.
> 
> For a summary, see: 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_pure-2Ddata_pure-2Ddata_pull_1414=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=pnAlCUWZ5MzYYSykucuR5HOfc18ah9O_nmAOsb7LeslXPQGgKENZepMhJVbqppWl=L0gd4KUwAdCncnta1-XfFeR7TUL3zGQoc_m8yvN_gmQ=
>   
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_pure-2Ddata_pure-2Ddata_pull_1414=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=pnAlCUWZ5MzYYSykucuR5HOfc18ah9O_nmAOsb7LeslXPQGgKENZepMhJVbqppWl=L0gd4KUwAdCncnta1-XfFeR7TUL3zGQoc_m8yvN_gmQ=
>  >
> 
> > On Dec 9, 2021, at 8:57 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> > 
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2021 11:57:29 -0800
> > From: Miller Puckette mailto:m...@ucsd.edu>>
> > To: Dan Wilcox mailto:danomat...@gmail.com>>
> > Cc: Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> > Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-announce]  Pd version 0.52-0test3 released
> > Message-ID: mailto:ybjfqery4pwer...@ucsd.edu>>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> > 
> > I might have something mislabeled, but I _think_ all the Pd builds I'm
> > making are indeed based on Wish-8.6.10, with these 4 patches:
> > 
> > tk8.6.10_helpmenu.patch
> > tk8.6.10_keyfix.patch
> > tk8.6.10_scrollbars.patch
> > tk8.6.10_zombiewindows.patch
> > 
> > OTOH, should I 'upgrade' to ish-8.6.12?  If there/s no reason to, I'd just
> > as soon keep things as they are.
> > 
> > cheers
> > M
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_danomatika=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=pnAlCUWZ5MzYYSykucuR5HOfc18ah9O_nmAOsb7LeslXPQGgKENZepMhJVbqppWl=Rbjkk3F-cMkAvAzGhmY6bVG-SevfyWDrbNVDkVIuCKE=
>  >
> danomatika.com 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__danomatika.com_=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=pnAlCUWZ5MzYYSykucuR5HOfc18ah9O_nmAOsb7LeslXPQGgKENZepMhJVbqppWl=qh-CC7nhUHBaqX-B_o7TMQco7T7ZplIvDG9A0cXx9ng=
>  >
> robotcowboy.com 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__robotcowboy.com_=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=pnAlCUWZ5MzYYSykucuR5HOfc18ah9O_nmAOsb7LeslXPQGgKENZepMhJVbqppWl=gOc_YwZ8jiXrzIIyyt_GqeCwFI1xMpPdr4R-4x43qiM=
>  >
> 
> 
> 



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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd version 0.52-0test3 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

So combining from two branches of this same thread: Iohannes writes:

afaict the problem actually was that Pd doesn't launch at all.
(un)fortunately i am able to reproduce this on a Sierra machine:

(and then various trouble)... and from below, Dans' got Pd working with the
newest jack but not running multi-arch yet:

On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 08:45:25PM +0100, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> I use the "official" JACK distribution installer from <> and *not* JACK via 
> Homebrew. I believe I've mentioned this in one or two of the "JACK doesn't 
> work" threads on Github. My testing back then indicated that linking to JACK 
> from Homebrew would result in the usual dylib missing errors when running on 
> other systems and didn't result in a weaklink. Maybe this is something that 
> works in newer versions or requires some Homebrew install flag?

---

so I think what I'm doing now is waiting for Iohannes's CI build to solve _two_
problems, the not-running-on-Sierra and the weak-linking-to-jack-broken.  (Sorry
Iohannes)...

Meanwhile I think I can make myself useful doing these:

Dan's PR to get MIDI working in libpd
naming the released files coherently
upgrading the "macosx7" (sometimes typoed as "macos7", ouch) version to
incorporate Tcl/Tk 8.6.12

cheers
Miller




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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd version 0.52-0test3 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

I might have something mislabeled, but I _think_ all the Pd builds I'm
making are indeed based on Wish-8.6.10, with these 4 patches:

tk8.6.10_helpmenu.patch
tk8.6.10_keyfix.patch
tk8.6.10_scrollbars.patch
tk8.6.10_zombiewindows.patch

OTOH, should I 'upgrade' to ish-8.6.12?  If there/s no reason to, I'd just
as soon keep things as they are.

cheers
M

On Wed, Dec 08, 2021 at 10:52:56PM +0100, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> I think that's an old version. It looks like Tk 8.6.10 when it should be the 
> Tk 8.6.12 as you have in the 0.52-0test3 builds.
> 
> > On Dec 8, 2021, at 7:20 PM, Miller Puckette  wrote:
> > 
> > Should be there now (on github; I presume that's where it would be
> > useful.)
> > 
> > cheers
> > M
> > 
> > On Wed, Dec 08, 2021 at 05:29:11PM +0100, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> >> Howdy Miller,
> >> 
> >> can you update mac/stuff.tgz with the latest Wish you've compiled? That's 
> >> need before the release so people self-compiling will get the right 
> >> version when using `make app`.
> >> 
> >>> On Dec 8, 2021, at 4:54 PM, Miller Puckette  wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> I think it would be sensible to build the "official" Pd binary with the
> >>> newest JACK - I think anyone running the older JACK can probably fall back
> >>> to the "macosx7" compile that I can still compile :)
> >>> 
> >>> Iohannes - is this an easy thing for you to change in the CI sys?
> >>> 
> >>> thanks
> >>> Miller
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Dan Wilcox
> >> @danomatika 
> >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_danomatika=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=5vfL16Rtlk-HfU_tR_ZguhBwx_sm7eqXtL-Wdb5PqKMoNQDZdaTF-GmPre7KWc7D=gJB10fR6RlGM3QbXu9xNDK3w1dw5wwPFdyk8n78S50A=
> >>  
> >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_danomatika=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=5vfL16Rtlk-HfU_tR_ZguhBwx_sm7eqXtL-Wdb5PqKMoNQDZdaTF-GmPre7KWc7D=gJB10fR6RlGM3QbXu9xNDK3w1dw5wwPFdyk8n78S50A=>
> >>  >
> >> danomatika.com 
> >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__danomatika.com_=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=sMhyM1Bsrk_C4BxippYtlu9kwG_tbjB7rZ2hgAXXr_cNNkjqwod_IpnwguKP-03d=GtykTaXvHMBlPZ-yV9ZnQyoH_5rUALHaZIYv26nZrwI=
> >>  > 
> >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__danomatika.com_=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=5vfL16Rtlk-HfU_tR_ZguhBwx_sm7eqXtL-Wdb5PqKMoNQDZdaTF-GmPre7KWc7D=dcZBcLrl6s4vYIwDi3TzXxsJZ4hKp8YPSZu3K4_YWcU=
> >>  
> >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__danomatika.com_=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=5vfL16Rtlk-HfU_tR_ZguhBwx_sm7eqXtL-Wdb5PqKMoNQDZdaTF-GmPre7KWc7D=dcZBcLrl6s4vYIwDi3TzXxsJZ4hKp8YPSZu3K4_YWcU=>
> >>  >
> >> robotcowboy.com 
> >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__robotcowboy.com_=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=sMhyM1Bsrk_C4BxippYtlu9kwG_tbjB7rZ2hgAXXr_cNNkjqwod_IpnwguKP-03d=QnqfPWJDnuY7UdpJltIxrJf-qgpvNsY0uBpPieF6Bsw=
> >>  > 
> >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__robotcowboy.com_=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=5vfL16Rtlk-HfU_tR_ZguhBwx_sm7eqXtL-Wdb5PqKMoNQDZdaTF-GmPre7KWc7D=aAqw0_tpUFlyIia1TTfrXGUod0JxbzZlgHmH6aDOiIU=
> >>  
> >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__robotcowboy.com_=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=5vfL16Rtlk-HfU_tR_ZguhBwx_sm7eqXtL-Wdb5PqKMoNQDZdaTF-GmPre7KWc7D=aAqw0_tpUFlyIia1TTfrXGUod0JxbzZlgHmH6aDOiIU=>
> >>  >
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_danomatika=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=sMhyM1Bsrk_C4BxippYtlu9kwG_tbjB7rZ2hgAXXr_cNNkjqwod_IpnwguKP-03d=HrtlqnUW8sWki1Sj4LizVvee96As_e4Z_IxqrYosEY4=
>  >
> danomatika.com 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__danomatika.com_=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=sMhyM1Bsrk_C4BxippYtlu9kwG_tbjB7rZ2hgAXXr_cNNkjqwod_IpnwguKP-03d=GtykTaXvHMBlPZ-yV9ZnQyoH_5rUALHaZIYv26nZrwI=
>  >
> robotcowboy.com 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__robotcowboy.com_=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=sMhyM1Bsrk_C4BxippYtlu9kwG_tbjB7rZ2hgAXXr_cNNkjqwod_IpnwguKP-03d=QnqfPWJDnuY7UdpJltIxrJf-qgpvNsY0uBpPieF6Bsw=
>  >
> 
> 
> 



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Re: [PD] mc – multichannel extension for Pd

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

I'm hoping to make this part of a major change that will have to introduce
a new version of t_signal to hold extra info (overlap factor for sub-blocked
windows; separate sample rate and number-of-samples-per-second; at least one
additional dimension for multichannel signals and/or images; some sort of
control by which objects can specify whether they require the same sizes
of input and output signals, )

Not for 0.52 though...

cheers
M

On Thu, Dec 09, 2021 at 06:22:33PM +0100, Winfried Ritsch wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Yes, thank you Christof for your notices,there are a lot of ideas about 
> PdSnake  ( 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__git.iem.at_pd_pdsnake_-2D_blob_master_docs_=DwICAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=FHyiZea0TQQHi-c8JicPAalOfO_9XMXhmhxsnmN7P0xA3uFhfF4Gg7Kkf4qx1aRs=_fc1CYUxloktEjjWR0XonNafTenxp_VB2uPhCQHo7_M=
>  
> , which Miller can laugh about sometimes  ;-)
> 
> We started this repository in case someone want to implement it, maybe a 
> place 
> also for ideas  ideas in there...:
> 
> - 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__git.iem.at_pd_pdsnake=DwICAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=FHyiZea0TQQHi-c8JicPAalOfO_9XMXhmhxsnmN7P0xA3uFhfF4Gg7Kkf4qx1aRs=BIBlqd_xWxkn1fV7w3udY6bIkmfCCT27GUvTl1fZBqk=
>  
> 
> mfg winfried
> 
> 
> Am Donnerstag, 9. Dezember 2021, 16:44:33 CET schrieb Christof Ressi:
> > Lots of nice ideas! I will definitely look at your abstractions for
> > inspiration.
> > 
> > On 09.12.2021 16:34, Thomas Grill wrote:
> > > Hi Christof,
> > > i didn't know about the initiative, but good that this is on a todo list!
> > > Many of your ideas listed here are implemented in my mc project.
> > > One drawback is definitely that the send~/receive~ based architecture
> > > can't cope with varying block sizes.
> > > 
> > > There are other problems concerning state preservation of mapped objects
> > > upon changed in the signal graph which i think can't be solved within the
> > > abstraction-based system.> 
> > >> FWIW, after talking to Winfried about Pd-snake a while ago, I worked out
> > >> a backwards compatible multichannel solution in my sketch book but never
> > >> came around making a proof of concept implementation (yet). AFAICT, it
> > >> should be possible to do.> 
> > > It is possible to also implement a detection whether a signal has been
> > > generated through mc._out (and represents a multichannel transport), or
> > > it is a normal signal. This can be done using some watermark, but
> > > clearly, this will not be 100% safe.> 
> > >> * [mc~ join ] join several (single-channel) input signals into
> > >> a multi-channel output signal.> 
> > > i named that mc.pack~
> > > Currently, there is also mc.concat to join two multi-signals.
> > > 
> > >> * [mc~ split ] splits a multi-channel input signal into
> > >> invidual (single-channel) output signals> 
> > > there is mc.unpack~, but also mc.index / mc.slice to select channels (for
> > > example interleaved pairs) out of the multi-signal.> 
> > >> * [mc~ sig ] creates a multi-channel signal from several float
> > >> inlets.> 
> > > not implemented yet, but easy to do
> > > 
> > >> * [mc~ ] tells an object to operate in multi-channel mode. If the
> > >> object doesn't support it (or knows about it), it operates as if the
> > >> inputs were single-channel and Pd prints a warning.> 
> > > mc.map maps (currently only mono) signal objects onto the multi-signal.
> > > Other mappings (most notably stereo) should be possible. mc.effect maps
> > > the mc multi-signal to an abstraction with many signal inputs/outputs,
> > > like vstplugin~
> > > 
> > > 
> > > best, Thomas
> > > 
> > >> On 09.12.2021 09:41, Winfried Ritsch wrote:
> > >>> Am Sonntag, 5. Dezember 2021, 17:22:44 CET schrieb Thomas Grill:
> > >>>> Hi all,
> > >>>> i'd like to make you aware of an abstraction library i have made
> > >>>> because of
> > >>>> working more with multi-channel loudspeaker systems lately.
> > >>>> 
> > >>>> Dealing with many parallel signal connections was cumbersome, so i have
> > >>>> come up with the mc library in order to abstract multi-channel
> > >>>> processing. It consists of pure-Pd abstractions using dynamic object
> > >>>> creation and it is NOT related or compatible with

Re: [PD] Pd version 0.52-0test3 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

So I guess they should be labeled "Macintosh OS 10.10 or later" and
"Macintosh OS 10.7-9".  I'm not sure if "macos7" works on 10.10 or not,
but I don't think it matters much :)

M
On Wed, Dec 08, 2021 at 05:30:22PM -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> Em ter., 7 de dez. de 2021 às 22:51, Miller Puckette 
> escreveu:
> 
> > So I guess the OS11 one should say "10 or later" and the "9" version is
> > the same as the
> > "7" version (so I'll just keep the "7" link around).
> >
> 
> "9" is too old and unsupported, "7" is even older. I see the confusion now,
> we actually mean "10.7", "10.9", "10.10" and so on.
> 
> It's all clearer for 0.51-4, where we have
> 
> - compiled for Macintosh OSX 10.9 (?) or later
> <http://msp.ucsd.edu/Software/pd-0.51-4.mac.tar.gz>
> 
> and
> 
> -- Compiled versions for older systems -
> - 64-bit Macintosh version for OSX 10.6 or later
> <http://msp.ucsd.edu/Software/pd-0.51-4-macosx7.mac.tar.gz>
> 
> 
> We just need to sort now what are the actual current minimal requirements.
> If it's 10.7 and 10.10
> 
> And it should be noted that the one compiled for older systems has a
> maximum requirement (I'm assuming it won't run on macOS 11 or later).
> 
> cheers
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > thanks
> > M
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 06, 2021 at 02:19:39PM -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> > > and since i'm talking aboute editing the site, you may wanna have "
> > >
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__puredata.info_=DwIFaQ=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=M1ANtpsp5o1IdXmqK6FhJk7Y5akzcTL5y51zVczlgr0kHoP8RNHj0sl198yRfuHb=vnPheJM8uLP7Fxyee5etc6rEprXDY7_nAxzpfIsJTDI=
> > " as an active link on your site ;)
> > >
> > > Em seg., 6 de dez. de 2021 às 13:17, Alexandre Torres Porres <
> > > por...@gmail.com> escreveu:
> > >
> > > > cool, now your emails are coming through :)
> > > >
> > > > mac downloads on your site are confusing
> > > >
> > > > there are 4 downloads
> > > >
> > > > - compiled for Macintosh OS 11 or later
> > > > <http://msp.ucsd.edu/Software/pd-0.52-0test3.macos.zip>
> > > >
> > > > <http://msp.ucsd.edu/Software/pd-0.52-0test3.macos.zip>- compiled for
> > > > Macintosh OSX 9 or 10
> > > > <http://msp.ucsd.edu/Software/pd-0.52-0test3-macosx7.mac.tar.gz>
> > > >
> > > > - 32-bit ("i386") Macintosh version for OSX 10.6 or later; can load
> > old,
> > > > 32-bit external libraries
> > > > <http://msp.ucsd.edu/Software/pd-0.52-0test3-i386.mac.tar.gz>
> > > >
> > > > - 64-bit Macintosh version for OSX 10.6 or later
> > > > <http://msp.ucsd.edu/Software/pd-0.52-0test3-macosx7.mac.tar.gz>
> > > >
> > > > I have 10.14.16 and could download and use the one compiled for OS 11
> > just
> > > > fine.
> > > >
> > > > The one that says it's compiled for "OSX 9" doesn't seem right - OSX9
> > is
> > > > long gone and it'd have to be compiled just for it. This one also
> > > > uncompresses to a confusing Pd-0.52-0test3-*macosx7* file. And the one
> > > > compiled to "64-bit Macintosh version for OSX 10.6 or later" also
> > > > uncompresses to this same file name.  Ayway, I can use this one too as
> > well
> > > > as the 64 bit for OSX 10.6 or later. So do we really need these 3?
> > > >
> > > > cheers
> > > > Em seg., 6 de dez. de 2021 às 03:44, Miller Puckette via Pd-announce <
> > > > pd-annou...@lists.iem.at> escreveu:
> > > >
> > > >> To Pd announce:
> > > >>
> > > >> Pd 0.52-0 test3 is out on the usual site:
> > > >>
> > > >> http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
> > > >>
> > > >> or (source only) on github:
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_pure-2Ddata_pure-2Ddata=DwIFaQ=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=M1ANtpsp5o1IdXmqK6FhJk7Y5akzcTL5y51zVczlgr0kHoP8RNHj0sl198yRfuHb=gIe7LEUDkO4ku3G7Bjp_zUxkM0LBYDnOwrd9ZtbJrgo=
> > > >>
> > > >> cheers
> > > >> Miller
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> ___
&g

Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd version 0.52-0test3 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Drat... I'd better look again...

M

On Wed, Dec 08, 2021 at 10:52:56PM +0100, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> I think that's an old version. It looks like Tk 8.6.10 when it should be the 
> Tk 8.6.12 as you have in the 0.52-0test3 builds.
> 
> > On Dec 8, 2021, at 7:20 PM, Miller Puckette  wrote:
> > 
> > Should be there now (on github; I presume that's where it would be
> > useful.)
> > 
> > cheers
> > M
> > 
> > On Wed, Dec 08, 2021 at 05:29:11PM +0100, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> >> Howdy Miller,
> >> 
> >> can you update mac/stuff.tgz with the latest Wish you've compiled? That's 
> >> need before the release so people self-compiling will get the right 
> >> version when using `make app`.
> >> 
> >>> On Dec 8, 2021, at 4:54 PM, Miller Puckette  wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> I think it would be sensible to build the "official" Pd binary with the
> >>> newest JACK - I think anyone running the older JACK can probably fall back
> >>> to the "macosx7" compile that I can still compile :)
> >>> 
> >>> Iohannes - is this an easy thing for you to change in the CI sys?
> >>> 
> >>> thanks
> >>> Miller
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Dan Wilcox
> >> @danomatika 
> >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_danomatika=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=5vfL16Rtlk-HfU_tR_ZguhBwx_sm7eqXtL-Wdb5PqKMoNQDZdaTF-GmPre7KWc7D=gJB10fR6RlGM3QbXu9xNDK3w1dw5wwPFdyk8n78S50A=
> >>  
> >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_danomatika=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=5vfL16Rtlk-HfU_tR_ZguhBwx_sm7eqXtL-Wdb5PqKMoNQDZdaTF-GmPre7KWc7D=gJB10fR6RlGM3QbXu9xNDK3w1dw5wwPFdyk8n78S50A=>
> >>  >
> >> danomatika.com 
> >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__danomatika.com_=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=sMhyM1Bsrk_C4BxippYtlu9kwG_tbjB7rZ2hgAXXr_cNNkjqwod_IpnwguKP-03d=GtykTaXvHMBlPZ-yV9ZnQyoH_5rUALHaZIYv26nZrwI=
> >>  > 
> >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__danomatika.com_=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=5vfL16Rtlk-HfU_tR_ZguhBwx_sm7eqXtL-Wdb5PqKMoNQDZdaTF-GmPre7KWc7D=dcZBcLrl6s4vYIwDi3TzXxsJZ4hKp8YPSZu3K4_YWcU=
> >>  
> >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__danomatika.com_=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=5vfL16Rtlk-HfU_tR_ZguhBwx_sm7eqXtL-Wdb5PqKMoNQDZdaTF-GmPre7KWc7D=dcZBcLrl6s4vYIwDi3TzXxsJZ4hKp8YPSZu3K4_YWcU=>
> >>  >
> >> robotcowboy.com 
> >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__robotcowboy.com_=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=sMhyM1Bsrk_C4BxippYtlu9kwG_tbjB7rZ2hgAXXr_cNNkjqwod_IpnwguKP-03d=QnqfPWJDnuY7UdpJltIxrJf-qgpvNsY0uBpPieF6Bsw=
> >>  > 
> >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__robotcowboy.com_=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=5vfL16Rtlk-HfU_tR_ZguhBwx_sm7eqXtL-Wdb5PqKMoNQDZdaTF-GmPre7KWc7D=aAqw0_tpUFlyIia1TTfrXGUod0JxbzZlgHmH6aDOiIU=
> >>  
> >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__robotcowboy.com_=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=5vfL16Rtlk-HfU_tR_ZguhBwx_sm7eqXtL-Wdb5PqKMoNQDZdaTF-GmPre7KWc7D=aAqw0_tpUFlyIia1TTfrXGUod0JxbzZlgHmH6aDOiIU=>
> >>  >
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_danomatika=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=sMhyM1Bsrk_C4BxippYtlu9kwG_tbjB7rZ2hgAXXr_cNNkjqwod_IpnwguKP-03d=HrtlqnUW8sWki1Sj4LizVvee96As_e4Z_IxqrYosEY4=
>  >
> danomatika.com 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__danomatika.com_=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=sMhyM1Bsrk_C4BxippYtlu9kwG_tbjB7rZ2hgAXXr_cNNkjqwod_IpnwguKP-03d=GtykTaXvHMBlPZ-yV9ZnQyoH_5rUALHaZIYv26nZrwI=
>  >
> robotcowboy.com 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__robotcowboy.com_=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=sMhyM1Bsrk_C4BxippYtlu9kwG_tbjB7rZ2hgAXXr_cNNkjqwod_IpnwguKP-03d=QnqfPWJDnuY7UdpJltIxrJf-qgpvNsY0uBpPieF6Bsw=
>  >
> 
> 
> 



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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd version 0.52-0test3 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Looking closer at Iohannes's CI output I saw:

Downloading https://ghcr.io/v2/homebrew/core/jack/manifests/1.9.19-2

... this _looks_ like jack2 to me.  So there must be something more subtle
happening than just the jack version Pd is linked to on the CI build.
(This is the build that's labeled "compiled for Macintosh OS 10 or later",
confusingly, as Alexandre has pointed out :)

M

On Wed, Dec 08, 2021 at 08:05:07PM -0800, Miller Puckette via Pd-list wrote:
> Hmm, I see "-ljack" in the command line in the CI output... so I guess
> what version of jack it links to depends on what is installed on the machine
> the CI process runs on?
> 
> cheers
> Miller
> 
> On Wed, Dec 08, 2021 at 04:55:39PM -0500, William Brent wrote:
> > Thanks everyone for all the action on this. I've tried two Pd 0.52-0 test3
> > versions downloaded today from http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.html
> > 
> >- "compiled for Macintosh OS 10 or later"
> >- "64-bit Macintosh version for OSX 10.7 or later"
> > 
> > Both of these fail to recognize when I have the latest version of JACK
> > running and tell me that they can't open JACK. Dan's latest single-arch
> > build successfully recognizes the latest JACK and opens just fine on my
> > x86_64 Mac under Big Sur.
> > 
> > I'm happy to do any testing needed to help out here, so just let me know.
> > William
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 2:02 PM Miller Puckette  wrote:
> > 
> > > Oops, perhaps this whole thing was a false alarm on my end...
> > >
> > > William - is it still the case that the Mac version on the website is
> > > failing to connect with the current version of jack?
> > >
> > > thanks
> > > M
> > >
> > > On Wed, Dec 08, 2021 at 07:55:03PM +0100, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:
> > > > On 12/8/21 16:54, Miller Puckette via Pd-list wrote:
> > > > > I think it would be sensible to build the "official" Pd binary with 
> > > > > the
> > > > > newest JACK - I think anyone running the older JACK can probably fall
> > > back
> > > > > to the "macosx7" compile that I can still compile :)
> > > > >
> > > > > Iohannes - is this an easy thing for you to change in the CI sys?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > actually, the CI already does this...
> > > >
> > > > the relevant change to the CI configuration is here:
> > > > <
> > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_pure-2Ddata_pure-2Ddata-2Dci_commit_0ef09a0bbfe46eea481715ceb09683947a604623=DwIFaQ=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=wFwYsyJQRiFd0mFeiCHlLDd4wrACgeX5kz7p5whpOCQsRKdQ0-CMs8RBDtsTwxHv=cAegjjs61n3qOyj47m4KBq-QMztZGXHUiCtuk3w8bAk=
> > >  
> > > >
> > > > (it has since been superseded, but in the core it remains the same)
> > > >
> > > > the current build logs show that the CI indeed only links against 
> > > > libjack
> > > > (and not against the framework):
> > > >
> > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__git.iem.at_pd_pure-2Ddata_-2D_jobs_33678-23L2432=DwIFaQ=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=wFwYsyJQRiFd0mFeiCHlLDd4wrACgeX5kz7p5whpOCQsRKdQ0-CMs8RBDtsTwxHv=lQv43UKdfdyAdKNl-ReorlMeU34fHvQZGZ0CbSLIBTg=
> > > >  
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > fdsf
> > > > IOhannes
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
> > > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.puredata.info_listinfo_pd-2Dlist=DwIFaQ=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=wFwYsyJQRiFd0mFeiCHlLDd4wrACgeX5kz7p5whpOCQsRKdQ0-CMs8RBDtsTwxHv=vAWFiZvktSBUP_kWdwODstOl2gWTA8kskn0CqENAxeY=
> > >  
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > -- 
> > William Brent
> > 
> > “Great minds flock together”
> > Conflations: conversational idiom for the 21st century
> > 
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.conflations.com=DwIFaQ=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=wFwYsyJQRiFd0mFeiCHlLDd4wrACgeX5kz7p5whpOCQsRKdQ0-CMs8RBDtsTwxHv=l7CVY8yl7Vwpm7cJxO3vctmYaXdQ6CsSY5iPK8pZW94=
> >  
> 
> 
> 
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>  



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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd version 0.52-0test3 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Hmm, I see "-ljack" in the command line in the CI output... so I guess
what version of jack it links to depends on what is installed on the machine
the CI process runs on?

cheers
Miller

On Wed, Dec 08, 2021 at 04:55:39PM -0500, William Brent wrote:
> Thanks everyone for all the action on this. I've tried two Pd 0.52-0 test3
> versions downloaded today from http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.html
> 
>- "compiled for Macintosh OS 10 or later"
>- "64-bit Macintosh version for OSX 10.7 or later"
> 
> Both of these fail to recognize when I have the latest version of JACK
> running and tell me that they can't open JACK. Dan's latest single-arch
> build successfully recognizes the latest JACK and opens just fine on my
> x86_64 Mac under Big Sur.
> 
> I'm happy to do any testing needed to help out here, so just let me know.
> William
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 2:02 PM Miller Puckette  wrote:
> 
> > Oops, perhaps this whole thing was a false alarm on my end...
> >
> > William - is it still the case that the Mac version on the website is
> > failing to connect with the current version of jack?
> >
> > thanks
> > M
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 08, 2021 at 07:55:03PM +0100, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:
> > > On 12/8/21 16:54, Miller Puckette via Pd-list wrote:
> > > > I think it would be sensible to build the "official" Pd binary with the
> > > > newest JACK - I think anyone running the older JACK can probably fall
> > back
> > > > to the "macosx7" compile that I can still compile :)
> > > >
> > > > Iohannes - is this an easy thing for you to change in the CI sys?
> > >
> > >
> > > actually, the CI already does this...
> > >
> > > the relevant change to the CI configuration is here:
> > > <
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_pure-2Ddata_pure-2Ddata-2Dci_commit_0ef09a0bbfe46eea481715ceb09683947a604623=DwIFaQ=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=wFwYsyJQRiFd0mFeiCHlLDd4wrACgeX5kz7p5whpOCQsRKdQ0-CMs8RBDtsTwxHv=cAegjjs61n3qOyj47m4KBq-QMztZGXHUiCtuk3w8bAk=
> >  
> > >
> > > (it has since been superseded, but in the core it remains the same)
> > >
> > > the current build logs show that the CI indeed only links against libjack
> > > (and not against the framework):
> > >
> > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__git.iem.at_pd_pure-2Ddata_-2D_jobs_33678-23L2432=DwIFaQ=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=wFwYsyJQRiFd0mFeiCHlLDd4wrACgeX5kz7p5whpOCQsRKdQ0-CMs8RBDtsTwxHv=lQv43UKdfdyAdKNl-ReorlMeU34fHvQZGZ0CbSLIBTg=
> > >  
> > >
> > >
> > > fdsf
> > > IOhannes
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > ___
> > > Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
> > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.puredata.info_listinfo_pd-2Dlist=DwIFaQ=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=wFwYsyJQRiFd0mFeiCHlLDd4wrACgeX5kz7p5whpOCQsRKdQ0-CMs8RBDtsTwxHv=vAWFiZvktSBUP_kWdwODstOl2gWTA8kskn0CqENAxeY=
> >  
> >
> >
> 
> -- 
> William Brent
> 
> “Great minds flock together”
> Conflations: conversational idiom for the 21st century
> 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.conflations.com=DwIFaQ=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=wFwYsyJQRiFd0mFeiCHlLDd4wrACgeX5kz7p5whpOCQsRKdQ0-CMs8RBDtsTwxHv=l7CVY8yl7Vwpm7cJxO3vctmYaXdQ6CsSY5iPK8pZW94=
>  



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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd version 0.52-0test3 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Oops, perhaps this whole thing was a false alarm on my end...

William - is it still the case that the Mac version on the website is
failing to connect with the current version of jack?

thanks
M

On Wed, Dec 08, 2021 at 07:55:03PM +0100, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:
> On 12/8/21 16:54, Miller Puckette via Pd-list wrote:
> > I think it would be sensible to build the "official" Pd binary with the
> > newest JACK - I think anyone running the older JACK can probably fall back
> > to the "macosx7" compile that I can still compile :)
> > 
> > Iohannes - is this an easy thing for you to change in the CI sys?
> 
> 
> actually, the CI already does this...
> 
> the relevant change to the CI configuration is here:
> <https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data-ci/commit/0ef09a0bbfe46eea481715ceb09683947a604623>
> (it has since been superseded, but in the core it remains the same)
> 
> the current build logs show that the CI indeed only links against libjack
> (and not against the framework):
> 
> https://git.iem.at/pd/pure-data/-/jobs/33678#L2432
> 
> 
> fdsf
> IOhannes




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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd version 0.52-0test3 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Should be there now (on github; I presume that's where it would be
useful.)

cheers
M

On Wed, Dec 08, 2021 at 05:29:11PM +0100, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> Howdy Miller,
> 
> can you update mac/stuff.tgz with the latest Wish you've compiled? That's 
> need before the release so people self-compiling will get the right version 
> when using `make app`.
> 
> > On Dec 8, 2021, at 4:54 PM, Miller Puckette  wrote:
> > 
> > I think it would be sensible to build the "official" Pd binary with the
> > newest JACK - I think anyone running the older JACK can probably fall back
> > to the "macosx7" compile that I can still compile :)
> > 
> > Iohannes - is this an easy thing for you to change in the CI sys?
> > 
> > thanks
> > Miller
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_danomatika=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=5vfL16Rtlk-HfU_tR_ZguhBwx_sm7eqXtL-Wdb5PqKMoNQDZdaTF-GmPre7KWc7D=gJB10fR6RlGM3QbXu9xNDK3w1dw5wwPFdyk8n78S50A=
>  >
> danomatika.com 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__danomatika.com_=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=5vfL16Rtlk-HfU_tR_ZguhBwx_sm7eqXtL-Wdb5PqKMoNQDZdaTF-GmPre7KWc7D=dcZBcLrl6s4vYIwDi3TzXxsJZ4hKp8YPSZu3K4_YWcU=
>  >
> robotcowboy.com 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__robotcowboy.com_=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=5vfL16Rtlk-HfU_tR_ZguhBwx_sm7eqXtL-Wdb5PqKMoNQDZdaTF-GmPre7KWc7D=aAqw0_tpUFlyIia1TTfrXGUod0JxbzZlgHmH6aDOiIU=
>  >
> 
> 
> 



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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd version 0.52-0test3 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

I think it would be sensible to build the "official" Pd binary with the
newest JACK - I think anyone running the older JACK can probably fall back
to the "macosx7" compile that I can still compile :)

Iohannes - is this an easy thing for you to change in the CI sys?

thanks
Miller

On Wed, Dec 08, 2021 at 04:48:00PM +0100, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> A "damaged" app bundle usually indicates something is missing or misnamed 
> internally. It can also indicate a signing error.
> 
> I tried making an updated universal build with JACK but the resulting bundle 
> doesn't run even on my own machine, so something is wrong with the build or 
> the script which assembles the Pd .app. I will look at this.
> 
> Also, in my opinion and I know I've suggested this before, builds for newer 
> systems should be linked to the newer version of JACK buy default ala:
> 
> ./configure --disable-jack-framework --enable-jack
> 
> This requires having the JACK distribution pre-compiled libs installed.
> 
> > On Dec 8, 2021, at 3:16 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> > 
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 09:15:10 -0500
> > From: William Brent  > <mailto:william.br...@gmail.com>>
> > To: Miller Puckette mailto:m...@ucsd.edu>>
> > Cc: pd-annou...@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-annou...@lists.iem.at>
> > Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-announce]   Pd version 0.52-0test3 released
> > Message-ID:
> >  > <mailto:CAGukSDNWgFb7S0apD=XTLGOnrTWNTG_8njB0phNq=cqlyn9...@mail.gmail.com>>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> > 
> > Unfortunately, that build is showing up as "damaged" for my students on Mac
> > OS Mojave and Big Sur, only offering the option of moving it to the trash
> > (see the attached screenshot). Even the usual route of doing a
> > right-click/open on the app leads to the same message, and in the Mac OS
> > security preferences it never offers the option to approve opening the app.
> > I can get them to successfully launch it from the command line by having
> > them navigate to the pd binary in the app bundle though. Or of course, just
> > build from source themselves. Not sure how important this is to others but
> > I'm doing a lot of work with JACK in my classes and nearly all of my
> > students are on Mac OS.
> > 
> > 
> > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 7:40 PM Miller Puckette  > <mailto:m...@ucsd.edu>> wrote:
> > 
> >> Dan Wilcox has a build againset the new Jack:
> >> 
> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__docs.danomatika.com_pdbuilds_0.52_Pd-2D0.52-2D0-2Duniversal-2Djack.zip=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=2hemQHRQfjbCsughWsFIC5EBZ4nVjvjEVuJZX0ff6pu0n08NrImpQK4A4EHxLdNs=UmZ7eRZEVxt-DzmPB21J_qjoTuP5TH1qJaUkt7CcTCI=
> >>   
> >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__docs.danomatika.com_pdbuilds_0.52_Pd-2D0.52-2D0-2Duniversal-2Djack.zip=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=2hemQHRQfjbCsughWsFIC5EBZ4nVjvjEVuJZX0ff6pu0n08NrImpQK4A4EHxLdNs=UmZ7eRZEVxt-DzmPB21J_qjoTuP5TH1qJaUkt7CcTCI=
> >>  >
> >> 
> >> (I think I need to include that in the (growing) list of compiled versions
> >> on my site, hmm...)
> >> 
> >> cheers
> >> Miller
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_danomatika=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=2hemQHRQfjbCsughWsFIC5EBZ4nVjvjEVuJZX0ff6pu0n08NrImpQK4A4EHxLdNs=XKP29FU0NGCnCSA0SFAVJbzJn2hpa7k_dzT-td96B_s=
>  >
> danomatika.com 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__danomatika.com_=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=2hemQHRQfjbCsughWsFIC5EBZ4nVjvjEVuJZX0ff6pu0n08NrImpQK4A4EHxLdNs=_d3VvlGAXn_eRgs-_kNzrcFtbyUnQvt-ap4SAaBD3nM=
>  >
> robotcowboy.com 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__robotcowboy.com_=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=2hemQHRQfjbCsughWsFIC5EBZ4nVjvjEVuJZX0ff6pu0n08NrImpQK4A4EHxLdNs=cOiI_z744n77_QNMwjx2yvlnoufQDemcNKAOF5IXFbw=
>  >
> 
> 
> 



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Re: [PD] Pd version 0.52-0test3 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

So I guess the OS11 one should say "10 or later" and the "9" version is the 
same as the
"7" version (so I'll just keep the "7" link around.

thanks
M

On Mon, Dec 06, 2021 at 02:19:39PM -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> and since i'm talking aboute editing the site, you may wanna have "
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__puredata.info_=DwIFaQ=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=M1ANtpsp5o1IdXmqK6FhJk7Y5akzcTL5y51zVczlgr0kHoP8RNHj0sl198yRfuHb=vnPheJM8uLP7Fxyee5etc6rEprXDY7_nAxzpfIsJTDI=
>  " as an active link on your site ;)
> 
> Em seg., 6 de dez. de 2021 às 13:17, Alexandre Torres Porres <
> por...@gmail.com> escreveu:
> 
> > cool, now your emails are coming through :)
> >
> > mac downloads on your site are confusing
> >
> > there are 4 downloads
> >
> > - compiled for Macintosh OS 11 or later
> > <http://msp.ucsd.edu/Software/pd-0.52-0test3.macos.zip>
> >
> > <http://msp.ucsd.edu/Software/pd-0.52-0test3.macos.zip>- compiled for
> > Macintosh OSX 9 or 10
> > <http://msp.ucsd.edu/Software/pd-0.52-0test3-macosx7.mac.tar.gz>
> >
> > - 32-bit ("i386") Macintosh version for OSX 10.6 or later; can load old,
> > 32-bit external libraries
> > <http://msp.ucsd.edu/Software/pd-0.52-0test3-i386.mac.tar.gz>
> >
> > - 64-bit Macintosh version for OSX 10.6 or later
> > <http://msp.ucsd.edu/Software/pd-0.52-0test3-macosx7.mac.tar.gz>
> >
> > I have 10.14.16 and could download and use the one compiled for OS 11 just
> > fine.
> >
> > The one that says it's compiled for "OSX 9" doesn't seem right - OSX9 is
> > long gone and it'd have to be compiled just for it. This one also
> > uncompresses to a confusing Pd-0.52-0test3-*macosx7* file. And the one
> > compiled to "64-bit Macintosh version for OSX 10.6 or later" also
> > uncompresses to this same file name.  Ayway, I can use this one too as well
> > as the 64 bit for OSX 10.6 or later. So do we really need these 3?
> >
> > cheers
> > Em seg., 6 de dez. de 2021 às 03:44, Miller Puckette via Pd-announce <
> > pd-annou...@lists.iem.at> escreveu:
> >
> >> To Pd announce:
> >>
> >> Pd 0.52-0 test3 is out on the usual site:
> >>
> >> http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm
> >>
> >> or (source only) on github: 
> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_pure-2Ddata_pure-2Ddata=DwIFaQ=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=M1ANtpsp5o1IdXmqK6FhJk7Y5akzcTL5y51zVczlgr0kHoP8RNHj0sl198yRfuHb=gIe7LEUDkO4ku3G7Bjp_zUxkM0LBYDnOwrd9ZtbJrgo=
> >>  
> >>
> >> cheers
> >> Miller
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Pd-announce mailing list
> >> pd-annou...@lists.iem.at
> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.puredata.info_listinfo_pd-2Dannounce=DwIFaQ=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=M1ANtpsp5o1IdXmqK6FhJk7Y5akzcTL5y51zVczlgr0kHoP8RNHj0sl198yRfuHb=x8eWNn28_00VKWG4MNwNvZOYgaK67g8N9rOumP5Ws4Y=
> >>  
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.puredata.info_listinfo_pd-2Dlist=DwIFaQ=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=M1ANtpsp5o1IdXmqK6FhJk7Y5akzcTL5y51zVczlgr0kHoP8RNHj0sl198yRfuHb=NGbSvVQC3ejs0H_BhPedhkIBglvhICb5q8Jp5QuMTBc=
> >>  
> >>
> >

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Re: [PD] Pd version 0.52-0test3 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Nope... I think it's a zip file that unpacks to "test3".

but now I don't know which "compile" to use, "Darwin" or "macOS"
(both appear on https://git.iem.at/pd/pure-data/-/pipelines ).  The "Darwin"
is a zip file containing the raw app, and the "macOS" one is a "disk image".
I'd prefer to distribute the "Darwin" version if it works on all the newest
MacOS versions.

cheers
Miller

"macOS is correct, but the one I uploaded was "Darwin".  
On Mon, Dec 06, 2021 at 03:09:15PM -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> Em seg., 6 de dez. de 2021 às 15:05, Alexandre Torres Porres <
> por...@gmail.com> escreveu:
> 
> >
> >
> > Em seg., 6 de dez. de 2021 às 14:19, Alexandre Torres Porres <
> > por...@gmail.com> escreveu:
> >
> >>
> >> there are 4 downloads
> >>>
> >>> - compiled for Macintosh OS 11 or later
> >>> 
> >>>
> >> hmmm, this one is actually uncompressed to "test2"
> >
> 
> I guess you reverted back to test2 and is fixing things now, right?

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[PD] [PD-announce] Pd version 0.52-0test3 released

[Miller Puckette via Pd-announce]

To Pd announce:

Pd 0.52-0 test3 is out on the usual site:

http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm

or (source only) on github: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data

cheers
Miller



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Re: [PD] 0.52.0test2: window jitter on (Mac OS)

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

Excellent news... I'm busy trying to grind out test3 which will have the fix in.

cheers
M

On Sun, Dec 05, 2021 at 06:12:38PM +, Philip Stone wrote:
> Thanks, Miller. I can confirm that build #8286 does *not* exhibit the problem.
> 
> Phil
> 
> From: Miller Puckette 
> Date: Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 9:33 AM
> To: Philip Stone 
> Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at 
> Subject: Re: [PD] 0.52.0test2: window jitter on (Mac OS)
> If you're on a mac you can just go to
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__git.iem.at_pd_pure-2Ddata_-2D_pipelines=DwIF-g=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=xDf6bAK0urUWlQ2gLTJeNAM5MGFVWSoQNI1C7CUb36eq4Z0SKCMjZfthDzHhmOou=3UvAtV-kEOVPgZQYuuObqFZK5aGFXpdlCXW0JiWFwug=
>  
> 
> look at the latest version that has finished compiling (build #8286 , third
> from top).  On the "..." drop-down, you can grab "macOS:archive" which
> should be an "app" with the fix in it.
> 
> cheers
> Miller
> 
> On Sun, Dec 05, 2021 at 05:10:04PM +, Philip Stone via Pd-list wrote:
> > Hi Iohannes,
> >
> > What I called “visual flutter” does indeed sound like the github issue you 
> > referenced – it is the scrollbars that are flashing when one transitions 
> > from floating over an object to not floating over it.
> >
> > I’ve never compiled Pd before, but maybe this is an opportunity to learn. 
> > If I can figure it out, I’ll do it and report.
> >
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> >
> > Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 00:15:20 +0100
> > From: IOhannes m zm?lnig 
> > To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
> > Subject: Re: [PD] 0.52.0test2: window jitter on (Mac OS)
> > Message-ID: <38f6fbe3-3a3b-b5a9-6625-260a89311...@iem.at>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> >
> > On 12/4/21 23:20, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> > > Howdy Phil,
> > >
> > > this may be related to a reported GOP performance problem with test2, so 
> > > I copied your report to the issue on Github:
> >
> > it might also be related to the scrollbar glitches reported in [1410]
> > (it's kind of hard to tell what "visual flutter" really means here).
> >
> > in any case, both issues ought to be fixed in current 'master' branch
> > (no pre-release yet).
> > @phil so if you are up to compiling you might give it a try...
> >
> > gfmds
> > IOhannes
> >
> > [1410] 
> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_pure-2Ddata_pure-2Ddata_issues_1410=DwIF-g=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=ioq7Ka00BM3zn1qhlJYaeymUbmoT1D7td0YpLJVzPRAxw9eW6JDM6q-Ht0dewD-e=W_UiSijTQKQVDgp7N8_8uBtGrlI51by-LGXOFQBQX4A=
> > 
> 
> > ___
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Re: [PD] 0.52.0test2: window jitter on (Mac OS)

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

If you're on a mac you can just go to 
https://git.iem.at/pd/pure-data/-/pipelines

look at the latest version that has finished compiling (build #8286 , third
from top).  On the "..." drop-down, you can grab "macOS:archive" which
should be an "app" with the fix in it.

cheers
Miller

On Sun, Dec 05, 2021 at 05:10:04PM +, Philip Stone via Pd-list wrote:
> Hi Iohannes,
> 
> What I called “visual flutter” does indeed sound like the github issue you 
> referenced – it is the scrollbars that are flashing when one transitions from 
> floating over an object to not floating over it.
> 
> I’ve never compiled Pd before, but maybe this is an opportunity to learn. If 
> I can figure it out, I’ll do it and report.
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> Phil
> 
> 
> 
> Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2021 00:15:20 +0100
> From: IOhannes m zm?lnig 
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
> Subject: Re: [PD] 0.52.0test2: window jitter on (Mac OS)
> Message-ID: <38f6fbe3-3a3b-b5a9-6625-260a89311...@iem.at>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> 
> On 12/4/21 23:20, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> > Howdy Phil,
> >
> > this may be related to a reported GOP performance problem with test2, so I 
> > copied your report to the issue on Github:
> 
> it might also be related to the scrollbar glitches reported in [1410]
> (it's kind of hard to tell what "visual flutter" really means here).
> 
> in any case, both issues ought to be fixed in current 'master' branch
> (no pre-release yet).
> @phil so if you are up to compiling you might give it a try...
> 
> gfmds
> IOhannes
> 
> [1410] 
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_pure-2Ddata_pure-2Ddata_issues_1410=DwIF-g=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=ioq7Ka00BM3zn1qhlJYaeymUbmoT1D7td0YpLJVzPRAxw9eW6JDM6q-Ht0dewD-e=W_UiSijTQKQVDgp7N8_8uBtGrlI51by-LGXOFQBQX4A=
>  
> 

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Re: [PD] '$0' in messages again, another proposal? (Was: Pd 0.52 test 2 is out)

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

I think having a "message" object is a better idea.  Only thing is, it
does raise some interesting design questions of its own - like, what of
sending more than one message; how to specify destination names without
using the ';' separator, and what if we allowed expressions ...

cheers
Miller

On Wed, Dec 01, 2021 at 09:34:15PM +0100, Christof Ressi wrote:
> > what if we introduce double dollar syntax to grab patch arguments?
> Actually, I already thought about that. The problem is that "$" is only
> interpreted as a dollar or dollarsym if it is followed by a number. So
> currently "$$" is not a reserved token, meaning that "$$" is a valid symbol.
> We *could* reserve it, but we risk breaking some patches. Assuming that only
> very few patches will be affected by this change, we might decide that
> extending the functionality of message boxes is more important.
> 
> Christof
> 
> On 01.12.2021 21:22, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> > I like the idea.
> > 
> > Em qua., 1 de dez. de 2021 às 17:14, José de Abreu
> >  escreveu:
> > 
> > I have an idea about $0
> > 
> > what if we introduce double dollar syntax to grab patch arguments?
> > and then inside messages $$1 would be first abstraction argument,
> > while $1 is the the first element of the list (as it already is)
> > 
> > this way, $$0 in a message would be what $0 is for an object, $$1
> > would be what $1 is for an object, and so on (this would be coherent)
> > 
> > this way we add the ability to access $0 from an object as $$0 in
> > a message and as a bonus make easier to get the patch arguments
> > inside a message too.. this makes sense? what do you think?
> > 
> > Em qua., 1 de dez. de 2021 16:44, Alexandre Torres Porres
> >  escreveu:
> > 
> > Context: we have an open PR that allows us to expand '$0' in
> > messages. I'd like to know if it's been officially rejected so
> > we can close it for good and settle the debate. Then maybe
> > think of something else.
> > 
> > Miller's response:
> > 
> > Em sáb., 27 de nov. de 2021 às 21:29, Miller Puckette
> >  escreveu:
> > 
> > I disagree with the "$0" in message box idea.  Why not $1
> > then?
> > (Oh, because it already does something different...)
> > 
> > It would be interestnig to allow message boxes to access
> > canvas creation
> > arguments somehow, but not that way.
> > 
> > 
> > To which me and Christoph argued things like
> > - /$0 is not a creation argument after all, i.e. it is not
> > part of "ce_argv". Also, it really //has a different purpose.
> > (...) $0 would be a special case either way./
> > - /It was also never documented as an 'argument'. (...) under
> > a user perspective, we are never aware of it and really expect
> > to be able to use it inside message boxes so they can
> > communicate to local [receive] objects (..) We also have
> > unexpected and weird behaviour in other places. It's all a
> > matter of documenting./
> > Now, what I actually have come up as a solution for me, so
> > far, was designing an external object named "message". It does
> > all that messages do, they understand comma and semicolons
> > (and act accordingly). The messages can be set via a right
> > inlet (with commas and semicolons being possible by escaping
> > with "\") and the object also acts as a general message
> > storage object. So the idea is to have something like this
> > that acts like a message and is an object. Moreover, as an
> > object, it can also deal with "$1" ... "$2" ... ect as
> > expected, and as also has been considered here as something
> > desired.
> > 
> > If this idea resonates well, I can try and open a PR for it
> > and we can discuss the design details.
> > 
> > see screenshot of the object
> > 
> > cheers
> > 
> > 
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Re: [PD] documenting messages to/from Pd and dynamic patching

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

I think this is right.  "pd dsp 1" is definitely public, and "watchdog"
isn't.  Perhaps there should be two different destinations for the public
and non-public ones.  but it would be cruel to change that just to clean
the situation up, when people are probably using some things that I
would think are private.

cheers
M

On Sun, Nov 28, 2021 at 01:59:41AM +0100, Christof Ressi wrote:
> I very much agree with your points.
> 
> > If we lump "user space" and "internal" messaging together in an open
> > manual, then they should be clearly delineated with special placed on
> > emphasizing what things are more or less stable and what things are not.
> > Then the user can decide how they want to proceed.
> As you say, it's better to document all of it and at the same time make it
> clear what is public and what is private. And figure out how to deal with
> the large gray area in between :-)
> 
> Christof
> 
> On 28.11.2021 00:37, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> > Howdy all,
> > 
> > My feeling on this is:
> > 
> > 1. Recognize that, despite using "private" or "unstable" internal APIs,
> > people have been using/abusing them for years. (So far, I feel we have
> > been recognizing this by being careful not to break things, more or
> > less.)
> > 
> > 2. We should document all internal messaging, at least for the sake of
> > developer documentation. If we lump "user space" and "internal"
> > messaging together in an open manual, then they should be clearly
> > delineated with special placed on emphasizing what things are more or
> > less stable and what things are not. Then the user can decide how they
> > want to proceed. I don't see a problem if people want to play with the
> > internals on their own machine and crash Pd... that's half the fun for
> > such activities anyway (learning).
> > 
> > 3. We should get a poll of which internal messages are currently in use
> > and consider which of these could be moved into "user space" and/or
> > replaced by a better API. I believe this thread is already providing a
> > good list...
> > 
> > 4. Open a technical discussion on supporting "dynamic patching"
> > officially. It's clearly very useful even if clunky through the current
> > workarounds. Even with [clone] there are still many use cases...
> > 
> > > On Nov 28, 2021, at 12:25 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> > > 
> > > Message: 1
> > > Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2021 20:20:49 +0100
> > > From: Jean-Yves Gratius 
> > > To:pd-list@lists.iem.at
> > > Subject: Re: [PD] documenting messages to/from Pd and dynamic patching
> > > Message-ID: 
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
> > > 
> > > On 27/11/2021 17:19,pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.atwrote:
> > > > ForwardedMessage.eml
> > > > 
> > > > Subject:
> > > > Re: [PD] documenting messages to/from Pd and dynamic patching
> > > > From:
> > > > Christof Ressi 
> > > > Date:
> > > > 27/11/2021 ? 17:01
> > > > 
> > > > To:
> > > > Pd-List 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Two examples that come to my mind:
> > > > 
> > > > 1) [iemguts/canvasselect] allows to (de)select objects simply by
> > > > index. No need to emulate mouse selection with "mouse" and "mouseup".
> > > > 
> > > > 2) canvases/objects can be moved around with [iemguts/canvasposition]
> > > > resp. [iemguts/canvasobjectposition]
> > > > 
> > > > Are there any other use cases for "mouse" and "mouseup"?
> > > > 
> > > Hi. My 2 cents
> > > 
> > > Personally, I use mouse and mouseup messages to forward multitouch
> > > events into the patch, received? from my multitouch linux laptop.
> > > 
> > > If those messages were blocked, all my multitouch ecosystem would be out
> > > of order :-) .
> > 
> > 
> > Dan Wilcox
> > @danomatika 
> >  >  >
> > danomatika.com 
> >  >  >
> > robotcowboy.com 
> >  >  >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
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Re: [PD] Pd 0.52 test 2 is out

[Miller Puckette via Pd-list]

I don't know which way to go on this one... I think it's a bad
idea to have a shortcut for "symbol" since it's more often hit
by accident than on purpose - and it confuses people who make them
thinking they're making floats.

cheers
M

On Tue, Nov 23, 2021 at 10:00:47PM +0100, Roman Haefeli wrote:
> On Tue, 2021-11-23 at 18:56 +0100, Christof Ressi wrote:
> > 
> >  I think *changing* existing shortcuts is a bad idea. So I think we
> > should leave the shortcuts as they were and use cmd+6 for the new
> > list atom. After all, a list atom is *not* a drop-in replacement for
> > a symbol atom (numbers and spaces are handled differently!)
> 
> +1 
> 
> Roman
> 



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