Re: [PD] Escaping/not resolving dollar argts in msgs/objects?

[Derek Kwan]

Ingo Stock  writes:

> On 05/20/2018 02:12 PM, Derek Kwan wrote:
>> As a side note, I don't really particular about this situation right now
>> and don't have a use case as of yet, but it looks like both the $$
>> approach and the tosymbol approach don't work with trying to insert
>> literal "$0, $1, $2" and so on in [text]s the "patching" sort of way via
>> [text insert]? You can enter those literals just fine via the popup Pd
>> text window and those will save just fine, but both the $$ and tosymbol
>> methods via [text insert] yield input that looks to be their escaped
>> \$0, \$1 versions within the popup Pd text window and then when you try
>> to save the contents of that window they get resolved (so $0 goes to 0
>> and $1 yields \\$1: argument number out of range warnings).
>
> Yes, the escape mechanism seems to be a bit quirky at times. For
> example, in the attached patch create-arrays5.pd, the array names are
> being created the way described above in the thread and put into a
> [text] object, where they occur escaped. The contents of the [text] can
> be saved with the patch. If you create the arrays from the [text] after
> writing to it, the arrays are created fine. But if you reload the patch,
> $0 is escaped in the array objects, although the contents of [text] look
> exactly the same. Maybe a bug, maybe some quirk.
>
> Anyhow, there is a solution for writing $0 into [text] and easily
> generate objects from there that is robust against saving the [text]
> contents with the patch, using [text fromlist], which is demonstrated in
> the attached patch create-arrays7.pd. :)
>
> best wishes, ingo
>
>
>
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ah, well that answers that hah. thx!

and yeah, i suppose its' a bit quirky given that at least functionally
texts are collections of lists but I suppose these sorts of things fall
more into the "not officially supported" category than not...

derek

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Re: [PD] Escaping/not resolving dollar argts in msgs/objects?

[Derek Kwan]

Ingo Stock  writes:

> Now this works without error messages, combining some of the approaches
> in this thread.
>
> ingo
>
>
> On 05/15/2018 03:47 PM, Ingo Stock wrote:
>> But it works by creating the message with set and changing messages!
>> 
>> [set obj 30 30 array define, adddollsym $2-$3( --> [( does the trick.
>> 
>> See also attached working demo.
>> 
>> 
>> On 05/15/2018 03:26 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote:
>>> On Tue, 2018-05-15 at 14:09 +0200, Christof Ressi wrote:
> [obj 20 20 array define $$1-snd0]

 this only works as long as you don't save and reopen the patch, where
 "$$1" will become "$\$1" (which is resolved to "$\\$1" instead of
 "\\$1").
>>>
>>> I see. Thanks for pointing it out.
>>>
>>> Roman
>>>
>>>
>>>
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Thanks all, sorry for the delayed response, got tied up with a looming
deadline during the week... Good solutions to try out with the $$ and
the [list tosymbol] options.

Yep, essentially what I wanted to do is was create a bunch of array
defines with $0 in them and not care about saving the dynamic patching
machinery used to create them. I suppose it wasn't super necessary in my
use case, but just keeping up my usual practice of prepending everything
with $0-, I suppose I tend to be on the extra paranoid side of wanting
to keep everything patch unique. A use case I could definitely see
myself doing at some point is something that I would want to open
multiple instances of that involve large sample banks, like say a live
looping patch with 50 10 second recordable loops or even just a sound
launcher/processor patch have can draw from 100s of different loaded up
sounds. In those cases, again I wouldn't care so much about saving the
machinery used to make all those [array defines], but doing all of those
by hand would definitely be a pain and they would all need $0-s in their
names to avoid collisions when multiple instances are open...

As a side note, I don't really particular about this situation right now
and don't have a use case as of yet, but it looks like both the $$
approach and the tosymbol approach don't work with trying to insert
literal "$0, $1, $2" and so on in [text]s the "patching" sort of way via
[text insert]? You can enter those literals just fine via the popup Pd
text window and those will save just fine, but both the $$ and tosymbol
methods via [text insert] yield input that looks to be their escaped
\$0, \$1 versions within the popup Pd text window and then when you try
to save the contents of that window they get resolved (so $0 goes to 0
and $1 yields \\$1: argument number out of range warnings).

Again, don't particularly care that much about finding a solution to
this other issue at the moment, but figured I bring it up as a possible
branch of further discussion since the topic is open at the moment
anyways...

Thanks again for the help on the dynamically creating [array defines]
with literal $0s.

Derek
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Re: [PD] Escaping/not resolving dollar argts in msgs/objects?

[Ingo Stock]

Now this works without error messages, combining some of the approaches
in this thread.

ingo


On 05/15/2018 03:47 PM, Ingo Stock wrote:
> But it works by creating the message with set and changing messages!
> 
> [set obj 30 30 array define, adddollsym $2-$3( --> [( does the trick.
> 
> See also attached working demo.
> 
> 
> On 05/15/2018 03:26 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote:
>> On Tue, 2018-05-15 at 14:09 +0200, Christof Ressi wrote:
 [obj 20 20 array define $$1-snd0]
>>>
>>> this only works as long as you don't save and reopen the patch, where
>>> "$$1" will become "$\$1" (which is resolved to "$\\$1" instead of
>>> "\\$1").
>>
>> I see. Thanks for pointing it out.
>>
>> Roman
>>
>>
>>
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#N canvas 172 88 575 641 12;
#X msg 37 103 5;
#X obj 37 149 until;
#X obj 37 172 f;
#X obj 67 172 + 1;
#X msg 37 195 symbol snd\$1;
#X obj 37 218 text set \$0-arraynames 1e+06;
#X obj 97 172 mod;
#X obj 37 126 t f f b;
#X msg 139 149 clear;
#N canvas 749 289 231 201 \$0-arrays 1;
#X obj 30 30 array define \$0-snd0;
#X obj 30 53 array define \$0-snd1;
#X obj 30 76 array define \$0-snd2;
#X obj 30 99 array define \$0-snd3;
#X obj 30 122 array define \$0-snd4;
#X restore 37 34 pd \$0-arrays;
#X msg 139 356 clear;
#X obj 139 379 s pd-\$0-arrays;
#X obj 37 310 text size \$0-arraynames;
#X obj 37 356 until;
#X obj 37 379 f;
#X obj 67 379 + 1;
#X obj 97 379 mod;
#X obj 107 425 text get \$0-arraynames;
#X obj 37 290 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty create_arrays 17 7 0 10 -262144
-1 -1;
#X obj 37 333 t f f b;
#X obj 37 563 s pd-\$0-arrays;
#X obj 37 448 + 30;
#X obj 37 425 * 23;
#X obj 37 83 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty write_to_text 17 7 0 10 -262144
-1 -1;
#X obj 139 172 text define -k \$0-arraynames;
#A set snd0 \; snd1 \; snd2 \; snd3 \; snd4 \;;
#X msg 74 425 0;
#X msg 37 540 obj 30 \$1 array define $\$2-snd4;
#X obj 254 327 loadbang;
#X msg 107 517 set obj 30 \, adddollar 1 \, add2 array define \, adddollsym
\$1;
#X obj 37 471 pack f f;
#X obj 37 402 t f b f;
#X obj 107 448 list fromsymbol;
#X obj 107 494 list tosymbol;
#X obj 107 471 list prepend 36 50 45;
#X connect 0 0 7 0;
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#X connect 19 1 16 1;
#X connect 19 2 10 0;
#X connect 21 0 29 0;
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#X connect 23 0 0 0;
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#X connect 30 1 25 0;
#X connect 30 2 17 0;
#X connect 31 0 33 0;
#X connect 32 0 28 0;
#X connect 33 0 32 0;


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Re: [PD] Escaping/not resolving dollar argts in msgs/objects?

[Ingo Stock]

But it works by creating the message with set and changing messages!

[set obj 30 30 array define, adddollsym $2-$3( --> [( does the trick.

See also attached working demo.


On 05/15/2018 03:26 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote:
> On Tue, 2018-05-15 at 14:09 +0200, Christof Ressi wrote:
>>> [obj 20 20 array define $$1-snd0]
>>
>> this only works as long as you don't save and reopen the patch, where
>> "$$1" will become "$\$1" (which is resolved to "$\\$1" instead of
>> "\\$1").
> 
> I see. Thanks for pointing it out.
> 
> Roman
> 
> 
> 
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#N canvas 181 88 734 679 12;
#X msg 39 116 5;
#X obj 39 162 until;
#X obj 39 185 f;
#X obj 69 185 + 1;
#X msg 39 208 symbol snd\$1;
#X obj 39 231 text set \$0-arraynames 1e+06;
#X obj 99 185 mod;
#X obj 39 139 t f f b;
#X msg 141 162 clear;
#N canvas 932 380 231 201 \$0-arrays 1;
#X restore 39 47 pd \$0-arrays;
#X msg 141 369 clear;
#X obj 141 392 s pd-\$0-arrays;
#X obj 39 323 text size \$0-arraynames;
#X obj 39 369 until;
#X obj 39 392 f;
#X obj 69 392 + 1;
#X obj 99 392 mod;
#X obj 109 438 text get \$0-arraynames;
#X obj 39 303 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty create_arrays 17 7 0 10 -262144
-1 -1;
#X obj 39 346 t f f b;
#X obj 39 530 s pd-\$0-arrays;
#X obj 39 461 + 30;
#X obj 39 438 * 23;
#X obj 39 96 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty write_to_text 17 7 0 10 -262144
-1 -1;
#X obj 141 185 text define -k \$0-arraynames;
#A set snd0 \; snd1 \; snd2 \; snd3 \; snd4 \;;
#X msg 76 438 0;
#X obj 39 484 pack f f s;
#X obj 39 415 t f b f b;
#X msg 39 507;
#X msg 123 484 set obj 30 \, adddollar 1 \, add2 array define \, adddollsym
\$2-\$3;
#X obj 256 340 loadbang;
#X msg 39 589 set obj 30 30 array define \, adddollsym \$2-\$3;
#X msg 39 612;
#X msg 256 363 set;
#X connect 0 0 7 0;
#X connect 1 0 2 0;
#X connect 2 0 3 0;
#X connect 2 0 4 0;
#X connect 3 0 6 0;
#X connect 4 0 5 0;
#X connect 6 0 2 1;
#X connect 7 0 1 0;
#X connect 7 1 6 1;
#X connect 7 2 8 0;
#X connect 8 0 24 0;
#X connect 10 0 11 0;
#X connect 12 0 19 0;
#X connect 13 0 14 0;
#X connect 14 0 15 0;
#X connect 14 0 27 0;
#X connect 15 0 16 0;
#X connect 16 0 14 1;
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#X connect 29 0 28 0;
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#X connect 33 0 28 0;


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Re: [PD] Escaping/not resolving dollar argts in msgs/objects?

[Roman Haefeli]

On Tue, 2018-05-15 at 14:09 +0200, Christof Ressi wrote:
> > [obj 20 20 array define $$1-snd0]
> 
> this only works as long as you don't save and reopen the patch, where
> "$$1" will become "$\$1" (which is resolved to "$\\$1" instead of
> "\\$1").

I see. Thanks for pointing it out.

Roman

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Re: [PD] Escaping/not resolving dollar argts in msgs/objects?

[Jack]

Don't know if this could help for your case...
++

Jack



Le 15/05/2018 à 13:15, Derek Kwan a écrit :
> 
> Hello list,
> 
> Perhaps a bit of a long shot and pretty much the exact opposite of the $0
> in messages conversations as of late: Is there a way to NOT resolve
> dollar arguments in messages and/or objects?
> 
> Example case: Lately for a project I've wanted to create vast swaths of
> [array define]s and I've done so with dynamic patching. Since I want
> their bound symbols to be something like "$0-snd0", "$0-snd1"
> $0"-snd2"... "$0-snd50", I DON'T want dollar arguments (particularly the
> $0) to resolve to anything. Similarly, I store filepath + array symbol
> pairs in texts to do a big load at the beginning and for right now and
> can always add the $0-bit via passing that symbol through a
> [makefilename], but I'm wondering if I can pass $0s unresolved into a
> text without having to manually type it in via the popup window.
> 
> Of course I can always edit the patch in emacs/vim and do a
> search/replace, but I'm looking for an in-Pd solutions... Also for the
> array business I suppose I could do that via [clone], but that situation
> doesn't seem ideal either...
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Derek
> 



not_resolving_dollar.pd
Description: application/extension-pd
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Re: [PD] Escaping/not resolving dollar argts in msgs/objects?

[Ingo Stock]

Hi,

usually this is not necessary. As $0 changes with every patch opening,
the dynamically created objects containing $0 must be recreated again
every time. $0 resolves to an actual number in this process (i.e. 1023),
but this is alright, as you can access 1023-array1 through [array get
$0-array1] (if $0 equals 1023 in that session).

I attached a demo patch that shows how it can be done (even without
[makefilename]).

best wishes, ingo


On 05/15/2018 01:15 PM, Derek Kwan wrote:
> 
> Hello list,
> 
> Perhaps a bit of a long shot and pretty much the exact opposite of the $0
> in messages conversations as of late: Is there a way to NOT resolve
> dollar arguments in messages and/or objects?
> 
> Example case: Lately for a project I've wanted to create vast swaths of
> [array define]s and I've done so with dynamic patching. Since I want
> their bound symbols to be something like "$0-snd0", "$0-snd1"
> $0"-snd2"... "$0-snd50", I DON'T want dollar arguments (particularly the
> $0) to resolve to anything. Similarly, I store filepath + array symbol
> pairs in texts to do a big load at the beginning and for right now and
> can always add the $0-bit via passing that symbol through a
> [makefilename], but I'm wondering if I can pass $0s unresolved into a
> text without having to manually type it in via the popup window.
> 
> Of course I can always edit the patch in emacs/vim and do a
> search/replace, but I'm looking for an in-Pd solutions... Also for the
> array business I suppose I could do that via [clone], but that situation
> doesn't seem ideal either...
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Derek
> 
#N canvas 299 119 386 630 12;
#X msg 39 116 5;
#X obj 39 162 until;
#X obj 39 185 f;
#X obj 69 185 + 1;
#X msg 39 208 symbol snd\$1;
#X obj 39 231 text set \$0-arraynames 1e+06;
#X obj 99 185 mod;
#X obj 39 139 t f f b;
#X msg 141 162 clear;
#N canvas 687 243 231 201 \$0-arrays 1;
#X restore 39 47 pd \$0-arrays;
#X msg 141 369 clear;
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#X obj 39 392 f;
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#X obj 82 438 text get \$0-arraynames;
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-1 -1;
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#X obj 39 346 t f f b;
#X obj 39 530 s pd-\$0-arrays;
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#X msg 39 507 obj 30 \$1 array define \$2-\$3;
#X obj 39 96 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty write_to_text 17 7 0 10 -262144
-1 -1;
#X obj 141 185 text define -k \$0-arraynames;
#A set snd0 \; snd1 \; snd2 \; snd3 \; snd4 \;;
#X connect 0 0 7 0;
#X connect 1 0 2 0;
#X connect 2 0 3 0;
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#X connect 3 0 6 0;
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#X connect 19 1 17 0;
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#X connect 20 2 10 0;
#X connect 22 0 24 0;
#X connect 23 0 22 0;
#X connect 24 0 25 0;
#X connect 25 0 21 0;
#X connect 26 0 0 0;


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Re: [PD] Escaping/not resolving dollar argts in msgs/objects?

[Roman Haefeli]

On Tue, 2018-05-15 at 04:15 -0700, Derek Kwan wrote:
> Hello list,
> 
> Perhaps a bit of a long shot and pretty much the exact opposite of
> the $0
> in messages conversations as of late: Is there a way to NOT resolve
> dollar arguments in messages and/or objects?

I think you cannot dynamically disable the resolution of dollar
symbols.

> Example case: Lately for a project I've wanted to create vast swaths
> of
> [array define]s and I've done so with dynamic patching. Since I want
> their bound symbols to be something like "$0-snd0", "$0-snd1"
> $0"-snd2"... "$0-snd50", I DON'T want dollar arguments (particularly
> the
> $0) to resolve to anything

Do I understand correctly that you want to be able to create those
objects containing literal '$0'?

You can "trick" Pd into creating a symbol that itself has a dollar
variable:

[0 (
|
[obj 20 20 array define $$1-snd0]
|
[s canvas]

> . Similarly, I store filepath + array symbol
> pairs in texts to do a big load at the beginning and for right now
> and
> can always add the $0-bit via passing that symbol through a
> [makefilename], but I'm wondering if I can pass $0s unresolved into a
> text without having to manually type it in via the popup window.

You could use the same trick.

> Of course I can always edit the patch in emacs/vim and do a
> search/replace, but I'm looking for an in-Pd solutions... Also for
> the
> array business I suppose I could do that via [clone], but that
> situation
> doesn't seem ideal either...

I was just wondering why I haven't ever experienced the same need for
literal dollar symbols in my patching career and realized that I never
save dynamically created stuff. I rather let the dynamic stuff be
created each time I load the patch. This way all dollar variables
resolve to the currently correct value and I never bothered to use
literal dollar signs in dynamic patching. Maybe I'm not fully
understanding your case, but I can't see how having dynamically
generated '$0' is useful in any way. Either you create all dynamic
stuff from scratch, then you can as well use the value of $0 or you're
saving stuff for later, but why do you need $0 then? Don't you rather
want something fixed/controllable, that evaluates to the same value on
each run?

Roman





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[PD] Escaping/not resolving dollar argts in msgs/objects?

[Derek Kwan]

Hello list,

Perhaps a bit of a long shot and pretty much the exact opposite of the $0
in messages conversations as of late: Is there a way to NOT resolve
dollar arguments in messages and/or objects?

Example case: Lately for a project I've wanted to create vast swaths of
[array define]s and I've done so with dynamic patching. Since I want
their bound symbols to be something like "$0-snd0", "$0-snd1"
$0"-snd2"... "$0-snd50", I DON'T want dollar arguments (particularly the
$0) to resolve to anything. Similarly, I store filepath + array symbol
pairs in texts to do a big load at the beginning and for right now and
can always add the $0-bit via passing that symbol through a
[makefilename], but I'm wondering if I can pass $0s unresolved into a
text without having to manually type it in via the popup window.

Of course I can always edit the patch in emacs/vim and do a
search/replace, but I'm looking for an in-Pd solutions... Also for the
array business I suppose I could do that via [clone], but that situation
doesn't seem ideal either...

Thanks!

Derek

-- 
Derek Kwan
www.derekxkwan.com

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