Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list]

> I could be wrong but I believe that when you ask for a negative font size


that inhibits scaling... so the line in pd-gui.tcl:

negative font-size numbers in tk mean pixel sizing instead of point sizing.
> set foo [list $::font_family -$fsize bold]

> is asking for pixel-deterministic font sizes.
Pixel sizes do not guarantee that the text will fit into a particular 
pixel-based sizing spec.

> I think that TCL/TK 8.6 is in fact misrepresenting the true font size by 1
pixel.  What I don't know is whether to throw in a workaround (test for
TCL version and adjust ifit's 8.6???) or to try to dig up the problem in
tcl/tk itself...
Determine the sizes for object and message 
boxes using fontspec heights/widths instead of the ones particular to the font 
tcl/tk measured.  Otherwise users will not be able to tell the difference 
between 
a font-rendering bug on their system and a patch where the author happened 
to create collisions.
-Jonathan

> cheers
> Miller

On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 12:52:00AM -0700, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> On further digging, I think the culprit is a slightly different tk scaling 
> value:
> 
> Tk 8.4 -> scaling: 0.999016715831
> 
> Tk 8.6 -> scaling: 0.9990167158308751
> 
> Looks like a precision/rounding issue after all w/ 11 digits versus 17.
> 
> > On Feb 15, 2017, at 12:16 AM, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
> > 
> > Looks like you’re right. I checked the debug output of the 
> > fit_font_into_metrics proc:
> > 
> > In Tk 8.4 with Monaco, I get
> > 
> > 6 4 7
> > 7 4 9
> > 8 5 10
> > 9 7 11
> > 10 6 13
> > …
> > 
> > And in Tk 8.6:
> > 
> > 6 4 9
> > 7 5 10
> > 8 5 11
> > 9 6 12
> > 10 7 14
> > …
> > 
> > I wonder if this is a rounding error?
> > 
> >> On Feb 12, 2017, at 9:20 AM, Miller Puckette  >> > wrote:
> >> 
> >> About that padding - the Tcl code sends Pd the font metrics on startup, and
> >> Pd follows them in setting the dimensions of boxes.  So I guess the new 
> >> version
> >> of Tcl/Tk is overstating the font width by one pixel.  Perhaps height is 
> >> also
> >> wrong in the same way (make a mesages box with 20-ish lines in it and see 
> >> if the box
> >> is 20 pixels too tall).
> >> 
> >> cheers
> >> M
> >> 
> >> On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 02:39:32AM -0700, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> >>> As for comparisons, here’s the same patch using Deja Vu Sans Mono and 
> >>> Monaco, both with Tk 8.4 & with Tk 8.6 Retina HiDPI rendering: 
> >>> https://flic.kr/p/QLGphN  
> >>> > (zoom in or 
> >>> download & view at full size)
> >>> 
> >>> Jonathan: One of the remaining problems I have with the Tk 8.6 build is 
> >>> the padding added to the object box width in HiDPI. Any clues on what to 
> >>> look into to fix this? The object arguments are clearly the same width… 
> >>> or appear to be.
> >>> 
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika 
> danomatika.com 
> robotcowboy.com 
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

2017-02-15 14:19 GMT-02:00 Miller Puckette :

> I could be wrong but I believe that when you ask for a negative font size
> that inhibits scaling... so the line in pd-gui.tcl:
>
> set foo [list $::font_family -$fsize bold]
>

Actually, we just fixed such an issue in cyclone with that, regarding
[cyclone/comment] we were seeing issues in cross platforms, where fonts in
windows/linux were much greater/bigger than in Mac OS.

So Matt did that trick and it fixed it!!!
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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list]

> 2017-02-15 12:27 GMT-02:00 Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list :




A program can essentially either resize fonts to fit hard-coded box sizes, or 
it can resize boxes to fit the fonts.  Pd Vanilla does the latter.

> And Purr Data does the former, right?
For DejaVu Sans Mono, yes.  But that's because I hard-coded font-size scaling 
factors known to work with the four font stacks: Windows, 
OSX, old-school sane Gnu, and new-school outlier Gnu.
I'm currently checking for the new-school Gnu fonts by measuring a test-case at 
startup.  That can be revised to find the best fit for an 
arbitrary font per box size, but it hasn't been done (or tested) yet.

> I think the first option is obviously safer. This issue is important in Pd as 
> it is a visual programming language, it needs to be consistent 
in my opinion, what are the challenges involved in making this change?
The challenge is figuring out if fit_font_into_metrics from pd-gui.tcl is 
broken.  If not, then figuring out why it isn't decipherable 
by human beings.
-Jonathan

> cheers

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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Miller Puckette]

I could be wrong but I believe that when you ask for a negative font size
that inhibits scaling... so the line in pd-gui.tcl:

set foo [list $::font_family -$fsize bold]

is asking for pixel-deterministic font sizes.

I think that TCL/TK 8.6 is in fact misrepresenting the true font size by 1
pixel.  What I don't know is whether to throw in a workaround (test for
TCL version and adjust ifit's 8.6???) or to try to dig up the problem in
tcl/tk itself...

cheers
Miller

On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 12:52:00AM -0700, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> On further digging, I think the culprit is a slightly different tk scaling 
> value:
> 
> Tk 8.4 -> scaling: 0.999016715831
> 
> Tk 8.6 -> scaling: 0.9990167158308751
> 
> Looks like a precision/rounding issue after all w/ 11 digits versus 17.
> 
> > On Feb 15, 2017, at 12:16 AM, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
> > 
> > Looks like you’re right. I checked the debug output of the 
> > fit_font_into_metrics proc:
> > 
> > In Tk 8.4 with Monaco, I get
> > 
> > 6 4 7
> > 7 4 9
> > 8 5 10
> > 9 7 11
> > 10 6 13
> > …
> > 
> > And in Tk 8.6:
> > 
> > 6 4 9
> > 7 5 10
> > 8 5 11
> > 9 6 12
> > 10 7 14
> > …
> > 
> > I wonder if this is a rounding error?
> > 
> >> On Feb 12, 2017, at 9:20 AM, Miller Puckette  >> > wrote:
> >> 
> >> About that padding - the Tcl code sends Pd the font metrics on startup, and
> >> Pd follows them in setting the dimensions of boxes.  So I guess the new 
> >> version
> >> of Tcl/Tk is overstating the font width by one pixel.  Perhaps height is 
> >> also
> >> wrong in the same way (make a mesages box with 20-ish lines in it and see 
> >> if the box
> >> is 20 pixels too tall).
> >> 
> >> cheers
> >> M
> >> 
> >> On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 02:39:32AM -0700, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> >>> As for comparisons, here’s the same patch using Deja Vu Sans Mono and 
> >>> Monaco, both with Tk 8.4 & with Tk 8.6 Retina HiDPI rendering: 
> >>> https://flic.kr/p/QLGphN  
> >>> > (zoom in or 
> >>> download & view at full size)
> >>> 
> >>> Jonathan: One of the remaining problems I have with the Tk 8.6 build is 
> >>> the padding added to the object box width in HiDPI. Any clues on what to 
> >>> look into to fix this? The object arguments are clearly the same width… 
> >>> or appear to be.
> >>> 
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika 
> danomatika.com 
> robotcowboy.com 
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Lucas Cordiviola]

Some screenshots with .tcl modifided as extended.

Windows, Linux & Mac:

http://lucarda.com.ar/x/t-metrics-screen-03.jpg

http://lucarda.com.ar/x/macosx.jpg

This last one is especially for Alex.



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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list]

> Hey all



> I'm happy that so many people are trying to tackling the font / box
size issue in vanilla now. From what I can tell, box sizes aren't even
consistent within the same Linux distribution.
A program can essentially either resize fonts to fit hard-coded box 
sizes, or it can resize boxes to fit the fonts.  Pd Vanilla does the latter.

> When I switched fromUbuntu 14.04 to 16.04, boxes grew horizontally by one 
> pixel per
character for patches with fontsize=10.
When you switched to 16.04, you started using an updated font 
engine to render the fonts.  As far as I can tell there is no set of rules 
or constraints on the font stack developers to keep font sizing algos 
consistent across time.  I do know that Windows, OSX, and the old 
Gnu font stack sizing algo (i.e., 14.04) were within a pixel of each 
other when measuring the width of a 31-characterfor string of 
DejaVu Sans Mono at a particular pixel size.  The newer Gnu font 
stack rendered a string that was seven pixels wider at the same 
pixel size.

The metrics can vary widely or not at all for a particular font.

-Jonathan
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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Lucas Cordiviola]

Hi Roman,

Cool.

Y put a pkg here :

http://lucarda.com.ar/x/pd-test-metrics.zip


with a test patch, feel free to add some GOP for your tests.

I ship the fonts and [ggee/image]. For Windows Install the .ttf, just 
double-click on them.

You can also use “-font-weight normal” without the quotes at pd`s startup flag.

The overall target is that patches that were done with extended displays 
correctly on vanilla

Also include in the pkg the .tcl. that goes in the tcl folder.(backup the 
original)

Please report if there are problems with [ggee/image].

Give us some screenshots please, specialy on Linux

Salutti,
Lucarda.



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From: Pd-list  on behalf of Roman Haefeli 

Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 10:28 AM
To: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but 
not in Purr Data

On Mit, 2017-02-15 at 11:05 +0100, Roman Haefeli wrote:
>
> On Die, 2017-02-14 at 22:46 +, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:
> >
> > extract “pd-gui.tcl” and overwrite your existing one on the Tcl
> > folder.
> Done.
>
> I can tell so much yet: Your pd-gui.tcl makes boxes use the "correct"
> width (no overlapping in GOP) with fontsize=10. However, box height
> is
> 2px smaller compared to what I had in Ubuntu 14.04 and what I
> currently
> have in Windows 10 (this is without DVSM, but with Courier in
> Windows).


Report for Windows 10: It doesn't change anything, boxes still have the
same height and width for fontsize 10.

Conclusion: Your pd-gui.tcl fixes fontsize=10 on Ubuntu 16.04 without
negative effect on Windows. Already a huge improvement.

Roman

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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Roman Haefeli]

On Mit, 2017-02-15 at 11:05 +0100, Roman Haefeli wrote:
> 
> On Die, 2017-02-14 at 22:46 +, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:
> > 
> > extract “pd-gui.tcl” and overwrite your existing one on the Tcl
> > folder.
> Done.
> 
> I can tell so much yet: Your pd-gui.tcl makes boxes use the "correct"
> width (no overlapping in GOP) with fontsize=10. However, box height
> is
> 2px smaller compared to what I had in Ubuntu 14.04 and what I
> currently
> have in Windows 10 (this is without DVSM, but with Courier in
> Windows).


Report for Windows 10: It doesn't change anything, boxes still have the
same height and width for fontsize 10. 

Conclusion: Your pd-gui.tcl fixes fontsize=10 on Ubuntu 16.04 without
negative effect on Windows. Already a huge improvement. 

Roman



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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Roman Haefeli]

Hey all

I'm happy that so many people are trying to tackling the font / box
size issue in vanilla now. From what I can tell, box sizes aren't even
consistent within the same Linux distribution. When I switched from
Ubuntu 14.04 to 16.04, boxes grew horizontally by one pixel per
character for patches with fontsize=10. From what I can tell, other
font sizes haven't been affected (no change). Unfortunately, font size
10 is the one that I usually use for my patches.

And it's not only a visual defect. Symbolboxes suddenly don't fit into
the GOP area anymore and thus are not displayed at all on the parent.
Functionality of patches is truly harmed by this issue. 

I never managed to get a deeper understanding of the problem and I
decided as a temporary work-around to manually fix the line for font
size 10 in font metrics in pd-gui.tcl whenever I update Pd. Somehow I
concluded back then that this is not a definitive solution, since my
modification failed to make box sizes consistent between Linux and
Windows.

  
On Die, 2017-02-14 at 22:46 +, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:
> Did you read my messages?

Yes, but I can't keep track of all of them.

> I need your results on All OS.
> 
> Download:
> 
> 
> http://lucarda.com.ar/x/pd-gui.zip
> 
> 
> extract “pd-gui.tcl” and overwrite your existing one on the Tcl
> folder.

Done.

> Give us screen-shots on All Oss.

Of what? Is there a test patch to use for the screenshot? I guess it
would make the most sense if all participants in this survey would use
the same patch.

I can tell so much yet: Your pd-gui.tcl makes boxes use the "correct"
width (no overlapping in GOP) with fontsize=10. However, box height is
2px smaller compared to what I had in Ubuntu 14.04 and what I currently
have in Windows 10 (this is without DVSM, but with Courier in Windows).

I'd be really glad if this is going to be fixed.

Roman





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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Dan Wilcox]

On further digging, I think the culprit is a slightly different tk scaling 
value:

Tk 8.4 -> scaling: 0.999016715831

Tk 8.6 -> scaling: 0.9990167158308751

Looks like a precision/rounding issue after all w/ 11 digits versus 17.

> On Feb 15, 2017, at 12:16 AM, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
> 
> Looks like you’re right. I checked the debug output of the 
> fit_font_into_metrics proc:
> 
> In Tk 8.4 with Monaco, I get
> 
> 6 4 7
> 7 4 9
> 8 5 10
> 9 7 11
> 10 6 13
> …
> 
> And in Tk 8.6:
> 
> 6 4 9
> 7 5 10
> 8 5 11
> 9 6 12
> 10 7 14
> …
> 
> I wonder if this is a rounding error?
> 
>> On Feb 12, 2017, at 9:20 AM, Miller Puckette > > wrote:
>> 
>> About that padding - the Tcl code sends Pd the font metrics on startup, and
>> Pd follows them in setting the dimensions of boxes.  So I guess the new 
>> version
>> of Tcl/Tk is overstating the font width by one pixel.  Perhaps height is also
>> wrong in the same way (make a mesages box with 20-ish lines in it and see if 
>> the box
>> is 20 pixels too tall).
>> 
>> cheers
>> M
>> 
>> On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 02:39:32AM -0700, Dan Wilcox wrote:
>>> As for comparisons, here’s the same patch using Deja Vu Sans Mono and 
>>> Monaco, both with Tk 8.4 & with Tk 8.6 Retina HiDPI rendering: 
>>> https://flic.kr/p/QLGphN  
>>> > (zoom in or download 
>>> & view at full size)
>>> 
>>> Jonathan: One of the remaining problems I have with the Tk 8.6 build is the 
>>> padding added to the object box width in HiDPI. Any clues on what to look 
>>> into to fix this? The object arguments are clearly the same width… or 
>>> appear to be.
>>> 


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Dan Wilcox]

Looks like you’re right. I checked the debug output of the 
fit_font_into_metrics proc:

In Tk 8.4 with Monaco, I get

6 4 7
7 4 9
8 5 10
9 7 11
10 6 13
…

And in Tk 8.6:

6 4 9
7 5 10
8 5 11
9 6 12
10 7 14
…

I wonder if this is a rounding error?

> On Feb 12, 2017, at 9:20 AM, Miller Puckette  wrote:
> 
> About that padding - the Tcl code sends Pd the font metrics on startup, and
> Pd follows them in setting the dimensions of boxes.  So I guess the new 
> version
> of Tcl/Tk is overstating the font width by one pixel.  Perhaps height is also
> wrong in the same way (make a mesages box with 20-ish lines in it and see if 
> the box
> is 20 pixels too tall).
> 
> cheers
> M
> 
> On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 02:39:32AM -0700, Dan Wilcox wrote:
>> As for comparisons, here’s the same patch using Deja Vu Sans Mono and 
>> Monaco, both with Tk 8.4 & with Tk 8.6 Retina HiDPI rendering: 
>> https://flic.kr/p/QLGphN  (zoom in or download & 
>> view at full size)
>> 
>> Jonathan: One of the remaining problems I have with the Tk 8.6 build is the 
>> padding added to the object box width in HiDPI. Any clues on what to look 
>> into to fix this? The object arguments are clearly the same width… or appear 
>> to be.
>> 


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Lucas Cordiviola]

Based on what Matt told you for OSX:

./pd -font-face "DejaVu Sans Mono"

And for not bold will be:

./pd -font-face "DejaVu Sans Mono" -font-weight normal

But “-font-weight normal” can be set on pd`s startup pref.

Salutti,
Lucarda.



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From: Pd-list  on behalf of Lucas Cordiviola 

Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 11:18 PM
To: Alexandre Torres Porres; danomatika
Cc: Pd-List
Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but 
not in Purr Data


>what is the bottom left one?


Sorry I mistook-it for the right one, is dejavu not bold.


>. So i vote that vanilla gets to make such changes for the advantage of 
>keeping the Pd environment more cohesive.

Yes, I agree, probably there are more patches done on Extended than Vanilla.


Please test the “pd-gui.tcl” to see if is that easy to change Vanilla behavior.


Specially on OSX as it apparently always used Monaco. Force it to use Dejavu.



Salutti,

Lucarda.



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From: Alexandre Torres Porres 
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 11:00 PM
To: Lucas Cordiviola; danomatika
Cc: Pd-List
Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but 
not in Purr Data

2017-02-14 13:33 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola 
>:

We can leave out “Extended”, and we can ask Jonathan to make Purr-Data look as 
Vanilla.


here's my reasoning, the issue now is that vanilla is stretching the text a 
lot, making the text go over and outside the patch area as in many of my help 
files. So this is the visual issue, things like objects, GUIs and text may 
overlap in vanilla if a patch was done in extended for instance (and there are 
still plenty of those around).

On the other hand, old patches from vanilla won't suffer any issue with the 
text and fonts getting narrower, it'll still look nice. So i vote that vanilla 
gets to make such changes for the advantage of keeping the Pd environment more 
cohesive.

cheers


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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Lucas Cordiviola]

>what is the bottom left one?


Sorry I mistook-it for the right one, is dejavu not bold.


>. So i vote that vanilla gets to make such changes for the advantage of 
>keeping the Pd environment more cohesive.

Yes, I agree, probably there are more patches done on Extended than Vanilla.


Please test the “pd-gui.tcl” to see if is that easy to change Vanilla behavior.


Specially on OSX as it apparently always used Monaco. Force it to use Dejavu.



Salutti,

Lucarda.



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From: Alexandre Torres Porres 
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 11:00 PM
To: Lucas Cordiviola; danomatika
Cc: Pd-List
Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but 
not in Purr Data

2017-02-14 13:33 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola 
>:

We can leave out “Extended”, and we can ask Jonathan to make Purr-Data look as 
Vanilla.


here's my reasoning, the issue now is that vanilla is stretching the text a 
lot, making the text go over and outside the patch area as in many of my help 
files. So this is the visual issue, things like objects, GUIs and text may 
overlap in vanilla if a patch was done in extended for instance (and there are 
still plenty of those around).

On the other hand, old patches from vanilla won't suffer any issue with the 
text and fonts getting narrower, it'll still look nice. So i vote that vanilla 
gets to make such changes for the advantage of keeping the Pd environment more 
cohesive.

cheers


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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

2017-02-14 13:33 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola :

>
> We can leave out “Extended”, and we can ask Jonathan to make Purr-Data
> look as Vanilla.
>


here's my reasoning, the issue now is that vanilla is stretching the text a
lot, making the text go over and outside the patch area as in many of my
help files. So this is the visual issue, things like objects, GUIs and text
may overlap in vanilla if a patch was done in extended for instance (and
there are still plenty of those around).

On the other hand, old patches from vanilla won't suffer any issue with the
text and fonts getting narrower, it'll still look nice. So i vote that
vanilla gets to make such changes for the advantage of keeping the Pd
environment more cohesive.

cheers
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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

2017-02-14 17:43 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola :
>
>
> Please test it on all Oss.
>

sure, when I get the chance, it might take a while...
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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Lucas Cordiviola]

Remember to force OSX to use DejaVU!!!



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From: Pd-list  on behalf of Lucas Cordiviola 

Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 10:46 PM
To: Alexandre Torres Porres
Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but 
not in Purr Data


Did you read my messages?

I need your results on All OS.

Download:


http://lucarda.com.ar/x/pd-gui.zip


extract “pd-gui.tcl” and overwrite your existing one on the Tcl folder.

Backup the originals or rename them to “ORIGINAL-pd-gui.tcl” before overwriting.

Restart Pd.

Give us screen-shots on All Oss.

Salutti,
Lucarda.



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From: Alexandre Torres Porres 
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 10:29 PM
To: Lucas Cordiviola
Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but 
not in Purr Data

what is the bottom left one?

2017-02-14 18:36 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola 
>:

Attached Screen-shot,


Note that the modified .tcl is using bold font, but you can imagine the normal 
font.



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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

what is the bottom left one?

2017-02-14 18:36 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola :

> Attached Screen-shot,
>
>
> Note that the modified .tcl is using bold font, but you can imagine the
> normal font.
>
>
> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
>
>
> --
> *From:* Pd-list  on behalf of Lucas
> Cordiviola 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2017 7:43 PM
> *To:* Alexandre Torres Porres
>
> *Cc:* pd-list@lists.iem.at
> *Subject:* Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in
> vanilla but not in Purr Data
>
>
> Ok Alex,
>
> I got some good news to you, but not to everybody.
>
> You can make vanilla look-like extended. You have to tweek “pd-gui.tcl”.
>
>
> The .tcl from “extended” had these lines:
>
> # sizes of chars for each of the Pd fixed font sizes:
> #  fontsize  width(pixels)  height(pixels)
> set font_fixed_metrics {
> 8 5 11
> 9 6 12
> 10 6 13
> 12 7 16
> 14 8 17
> 16 10 19
> 18 11 22
> 24 14 29
> 30 18 37
> 36 22 44
> }
>
> And vanilla has these:
>
> # sizes of chars for each of the Pd fixed font sizes:
> # width(pixels)  height(pixels)
> set font_metrics {
> 6 10
> 7 13
> 9 16
> 10 21
> 15 25
> 25 45
> }
>
>
>
>
> Backup your “pd-gui.tcl” somewhere & then edit the one you are using with
> these values:
>
> set font_metrics {
> 5 11
> 6 13
> 7 16
> 8 17
> 15 25
> 25 45
>
> We are modifying just the first four from extended, 8, 10 12 & 14 (14
> should be 16 btw).
>
> Please test it on all Oss.
>
> I have tested it on mswindows with dejavu bold with coll-help from your
> git.
>
> Salutti,
> Lucarda
>
>
>
>
> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
>
>
> --
> *From:* Alexandre Torres Porres 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2017 7:39 PM
> *To:* Lucas Cordiviola
> *Cc:* pd-list@lists.iem.at
> *Subject:* Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in
> vanilla but not in Purr Data
>
> I also opened an issue in Purr Data about this https://git.purrdata.net/
> jwilkes/purr-data/issues/258
>
>
> 2017-02-14 17:21 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres :
>
>>
>> 2017-02-11 21:40 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres :
>>
>>> well... not sure if something important was clear enough, let me say
>>> again, in windows, Pd Extended came and loaded DejaVu Sans Mono!
>>>
>>
>> well, I'm referring to this message when I tried to point out for the
>> second time about this issue with print screens - I got an answer as if I
>> was stating the obvious and making several pointless remarks, but then I
>> also had tried a third time to make this clear and then a fourth attempt on
>> a different thread... this has been a fifth time, and, well, this is my *Last
>> Ditch Effort* in raising this issue...
>>
>>
>>> In Extended, the font still looks ok and nice, it doesn't corrupt the
>>> visuals in the patch, it's only in vanilla that things get screwed up
>>>
>>
>> see?
>>
>>
>>> here, let me show you 2 print screens, a patch in Extended that looks a
>>> lot like the Mac Os version with Monaco, that looks also reasonably the
>>> same as Purr Data in every platform, and how vanilla in windows with dejavu
>>> sans got screwy... in the same way as in linux...
>>>
>>
>> ok? clear now? I'm sending those print screens again, and I'm including a
>> third print from Purr Data and a fourth with vanilla on Mac Os with Monaco,
>> hope it is clear now...
>>
>> so, again, this is:
>> - vanilla with DejaVu in windows;
>> - Extended with DejaVu in windows;
>> - Purr Data with DejaVu in Mac Os
>> - Vanilla with Monaco in Mac Os
>>
>> What are we seeing here?
>>
>> 1) Purr Data in Mac Os with DejaVu lloks like Vanilla with Monaco in
>> MacOs!
>> 2) Purr Data with DejaVu in Mac Os looks like Extended with DejaVu in
>> Windows
>> 3) Vanilla in Windows with DejaVu looks like something else...
>>
>> My point, once again, is that there's a consistency between Pd-Extended
>> and Purr Data, but things get complicated when Pd Vanilla comes in... *things
>> do not look the same in vanilla and the others* *even with the same
>> fonts!*
>>
>> cheers
>>
>
>
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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Lucas Cordiviola]

here it goes:


http://lucarda.com.ar/x/all-02.jpg


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From: Dan Wilcox 
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 8:40 PM
To: Lucas Cordiviola; Alexandre Torres Porres
Cc: Pd-List
Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but 
not in Purr Data

FYI image attachments don’t work on the list, at least for me.

On Feb 14, 2017, at 1:37 PM, 
pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:

From: Lucas Cordiviola >
Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but 
not in Purr Data
Date: February 14, 2017 at 1:36:59 PM MST
To: Alexandre Torres Porres >
Cc: "pd-list@lists.iem.at" 
>



Attached Screen-shot,

Note that the modified .tcl is using bold font, but you can imagine the normal 
font.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika
danomatika.com
robotcowboy.com



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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Dan Wilcox]

FYI image attachments don’t work on the list, at least for me.

> On Feb 14, 2017, at 1:37 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> From: Lucas Cordiviola >
> Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but 
> not in Purr Data
> Date: February 14, 2017 at 1:36:59 PM MST
> To: Alexandre Torres Porres >
> Cc: "pd-list@lists.iem.at " 
> >
> 
> 
> Attached Screen-shot,
> 
> Note that the modified .tcl is using bold font, but you can imagine the 
> normal font.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

I also opened an issue in Purr Data about this
https://git.purrdata.net/jwilkes/purr-data/issues/258


2017-02-14 17:21 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres :

>
> 2017-02-11 21:40 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres :
>
>> well... not sure if something important was clear enough, let me say
>> again, in windows, Pd Extended came and loaded DejaVu Sans Mono!
>>
>
> well, I'm referring to this message when I tried to point out for the
> second time about this issue with print screens - I got an answer as if I
> was stating the obvious and making several pointless remarks, but then I
> also had tried a third time to make this clear and then a fourth attempt on
> a different thread... this has been a fifth time, and, well, this is my *Last
> Ditch Effort* in raising this issue...
>
>
>> In Extended, the font still looks ok and nice, it doesn't corrupt the
>> visuals in the patch, it's only in vanilla that things get screwed up
>>
>
> see?
>
>
>> here, let me show you 2 print screens, a patch in Extended that looks a
>> lot like the Mac Os version with Monaco, that looks also reasonably the
>> same as Purr Data in every platform, and how vanilla in windows with dejavu
>> sans got screwy... in the same way as in linux...
>>
>
> ok? clear now? I'm sending those print screens again, and I'm including a
> third print from Purr Data and a fourth with vanilla on Mac Os with Monaco,
> hope it is clear now...
>
> so, again, this is:
> - vanilla with DejaVu in windows;
> - Extended with DejaVu in windows;
> - Purr Data with DejaVu in Mac Os
> - Vanilla with Monaco in Mac Os
>
> What are we seeing here?
>
> 1) Purr Data in Mac Os with DejaVu lloks like Vanilla with Monaco in MacOs!
> 2) Purr Data with DejaVu in Mac Os looks like Extended with DejaVu in
> Windows
> 3) Vanilla in Windows with DejaVu looks like something else...
>
> My point, once again, is that there's a consistency between Pd-Extended
> and Purr Data, but things get complicated when Pd Vanilla comes in... *things
> do not look the same in vanilla and the others* *even with the same
> fonts!*
>
> cheers
>
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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Lucas Cordiviola]

Ok Alex,

I got some good news to you, but not to everybody.

You can make vanilla look-like extended. You have to tweek “pd-gui.tcl”.


The .tcl from “extended” had these lines:

# sizes of chars for each of the Pd fixed font sizes:
#  fontsize  width(pixels)  height(pixels)
set font_fixed_metrics {
8 5 11
9 6 12
10 6 13
12 7 16
14 8 17
16 10 19
18 11 22
24 14 29
30 18 37
36 22 44
}

And vanilla has these:

# sizes of chars for each of the Pd fixed font sizes:
# width(pixels)  height(pixels)
set font_metrics {
6 10
7 13
9 16
10 21
15 25
25 45
}




Backup your “pd-gui.tcl” somewhere & then edit the one you are using with these 
values:

set font_metrics {
5 11
6 13
7 16
8 17
15 25
25 45

We are modifying just the first four from extended, 8, 10 12 & 14 (14 should be 
16 btw).

Please test it on all Oss.

I have tested it on mswindows with dejavu bold with coll-help from your git.

Salutti,
Lucarda





Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.



From: Alexandre Torres Porres 
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 7:39 PM
To: Lucas Cordiviola
Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but 
not in Purr Data

I also opened an issue in Purr Data about this 
https://git.purrdata.net/jwilkes/purr-data/issues/258


2017-02-14 17:21 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres 
>:

2017-02-11 21:40 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres 
>:
well... not sure if something important was clear enough, let me say again, in 
windows, Pd Extended came and loaded DejaVu Sans Mono!

well, I'm referring to this message when I tried to point out for the second 
time about this issue with print screens - I got an answer as if I was stating 
the obvious and making several pointless remarks, but then I also had tried a 
third time to make this clear and then a fourth attempt on a different 
thread... this has been a fifth time, and, well, this is my Last Ditch Effort 
in raising this issue...

In Extended, the font still looks ok and nice, it doesn't corrupt the visuals 
in the patch, it's only in vanilla that things get screwed up

see?

here, let me show you 2 print screens, a patch in Extended that looks a lot 
like the Mac Os version with Monaco, that looks also reasonably the same as 
Purr Data in every platform, and how vanilla in windows with dejavu sans got 
screwy... in the same way as in linux...

ok? clear now? I'm sending those print screens again, and I'm including a third 
print from Purr Data and a fourth with vanilla on Mac Os with Monaco, hope it 
is clear now...

so, again, this is:
- vanilla with DejaVu in windows;
- Extended with DejaVu in windows;
- Purr Data with DejaVu in Mac Os
- Vanilla with Monaco in Mac Os

What are we seeing here?

1) Purr Data in Mac Os with DejaVu lloks like Vanilla with Monaco in MacOs!
2) Purr Data with DejaVu in Mac Os looks like Extended with DejaVu in Windows
3) Vanilla in Windows with DejaVu looks like something else...

My point, once again, is that there's a consistency between Pd-Extended and 
Purr Data, but things get complicated when Pd Vanilla comes in... things do not 
look the same in vanilla and the others even with the same fonts!

cheers

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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

2017-02-14 14:42 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola :

> Did "Extended" used Dejavu on Mac?
>

No, but here's the deal... it looks exactly like DejaVu in Extended
anyway...

If you get Extended in Windows with DejaVu and compare it to Extended in
Mac Os with Monaco, they look virtually the same.

The kind of conflict I'm raising here between vanilla and purr data is not
only about different fonts and the idea that they are too different. Monaco
is supposed to be a good replacement for DejaVu...

the only point is that DejaVu, Monaco, or whatever, doesn't really look the
same when you open the same patch, with the same font in vanilla or purr
data - I thought I made that clear from my first message :)



> Most of your patches have been made with Monaco, at least the Cyclone
> ones, correct?
>

all of them I should say...

cheers
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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Lucas Cordiviola]

Did "Extended" used Dejavu on Mac?

Most of your patches have been made with Monaco, at least the Cyclone ones, 
correct?



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>I'm fine with either way, whatever is easiest... but now all my stuff is 
>formatted to fit the Purr Data/Pd-L2ork/Extended style, and I mean over 200 
>help files from the cyclone library, 50 help files from another library I'm 
>creating plus a personal didactic material with over 350 examples, that's over 
>600 files and patches I needed to fix, plus other personal patches that I 
>personally use myself... so, yeah, for me it'd be much more convenient if 
>vanilla would magically just look exactly like l2ork/purr data...

>but anyway, this depends vanilla & l2ork/purr data people reaching a consensus 
>and working together, so I took the liberty of copying this message to ico and 
>jonathan


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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

2017-02-14 13:33 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola :

> I`m changing the thread back here as this is not “DejaVu Font: Shipping &
> using on W32 ”
>
> *>Alexandre Torres Porres > wrote:*
>
>
> *>howdy, I'll insist here as well, again, I like that we're looking in to
> how to install the same fonts for all platforms, but I'm really concerned
> about patches not looking the same in vanilla and in Extended/Purr Data.*
>
>
> *>what are the challenges in making it not only work well in cross
> platforms, but also in this different pd flavors? *
>
>
> We can leave out “Extended”, and we can ask Jonathan to make Purr-Data
> look as Vanilla.
>
> Or in other words, lets forget about extended look cuz there was a special
> gui rewrite/gui port that is not used anymore.
>
> I think this is the easiest way to get that challenge.
>


I'm fine with either way, whatever is easiest... but now all my stuff is
formatted to fit the Purr Data/Pd-L2ork/Extended style, and I mean over 200
help files from the cyclone library, 50 help files from another library I'm
creating plus a personal didactic material with over 350 examples, that's
over 600 files and patches I needed to fix, plus other personal patches
that I personally use myself... so, yeah, for me it'd be much more
convenient if vanilla would magically just look exactly like l2ork/purr
data...

but anyway, this depends vanilla & l2ork/purr data people reaching a
consensus and working together, so I took the liberty of copying this
message to ico and jonathan

cheers
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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Lucas Cordiviola]

I`m changing the thread back here as this is not “DejaVu Font: Shipping & using 
on W32 ”


>Alexandre Torres Porres  wrote:

>howdy, I'll insist here as well, again, I like that we're looking in to how to 
>install the same fonts for all platforms, but I'm really concerned about 
>patches not looking the same in vanilla and in Extended/Purr Data.


>what are the challenges in making it not only work well in cross platforms, 
>but also in this different pd flavors?

We can leave out “Extended”, and we can ask Jonathan to make Purr-Data look as 
Vanilla.

Or in other words, lets forget about extended look cuz there was a special gui 
rewrite/gui port that is not used anymore.

I think this is the easiest way to get that challenge.

But is just an opinion.



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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Lucas Cordiviola]

Ok,

Following Dan`s suggestion to ship & use a font without installing it, I came 
to a very straight-forward method for w32.

Tested & working.

It uses a Tcl Windows API extension. (600KB)

twapi web:
http://twapi.sourceforge.net/v4.1/installation.html


twapi package:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/twapi/files/Current%20Releases/Tcl%20Windows%20API/twapi-4.1.27/


added lines on "pd-gui.tcl" @line 24:

# adding dejavu fonts on mswindows
package require twapi
twapi::AddFontResourceEx DejaVuSansMono.ttf
twapi::AddFontResourceEx DejaVuSansMono-Bold.ttf

000

Don't know how to exclude this "package require" for the other OSs.
The .ttf were placed on pd/bin for simplicity.



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From: Dan Wilcox 
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 5:06 AM
To: Lucas Cordiviola
Cc: Jonathan Wilkes; Alexandre Torres Porres; Pd-List; Miller Puckette
Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but 
not in Purr Data


On Feb 12, 2017, at 6:49 PM, Lucas Cordiviola 
> wrote:


>Another issue is that, for many, the rendering of a bolded DVSM will simply 
>look *ulgy* to those used to a normal-weight Monaco, especially if they never 
>used an earlier version of Pd or Pd on Linux.

IMO the default cross platform font should NOT be Bold. As Dan said OSX users 
will most likely find it ugly, and it was not bold in Pd-extended nor is in 
Purr-Data.

I tested with bold as that is the default font weight for vanilla on Linux 
AFAICT.


>>How difficult is to deploy DejaVu on Mac?


>Typically, add a key to the app bundle Info.plist and include the font in the 
>app bundle's Resource folder. This means the font does not have to be 
>installed system- or user- wide but only used by the app itself. This assumes 
>Tk’s handling of app bundles picks up on registered fonts from the plist (it 
>should).


>As for Windows, it looks like it’s possible to load a font that comes with the 
>app (the Windows API alls this a:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms533820(v=vs.85).aspx

http://code.activestate.com/lists/tcl-core/8158/#sthash.qJEhQALT.dpuf

@Dan:

The Tcl thing is just for Windows?

Yes as it’s using the Window’s API.

Or Cross-platform?

No. See above.

I know the Mac solution. Deja Vu is usually installed on Linux systems and, if 
not, can be an install requirement by whatever package manager is being used. 
There is no need to distribute and install a copy of the font on Linux.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika
danomatika.com
robotcowboy.com



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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Lucas Cordiviola]

This chunk of code has to be placed on “pd-gui.tcl” @line 433?



critcl::cproc AddFontResource {Tcl_Interp* interp Tcl_Obj* pathObj} ok {
Tcl_DString ds;
Tcl_Encoding unicode;
int len, r = TCL_OK;
const char *path = Tcl_GetStringFromObj(pathObj, );

Tcl_DStringInit();
unicode = Tcl_GetEncoding(interp, "unicode");
Tcl_UtfToExternalDString(unicode, path, len, );
if (AddFontResourceExW(Tcl_DStringValue(), FR_PRIVATE, NULL)
== 0) {
r = TCL_ERROR;
}
Tcl_DStringFree();
Tcl_FreeEncoding(unicode);
return r;
}

//

 Of course needs a path to the .ttf and other tweaks right?



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From: Pd-list  on behalf of Lucas Cordiviola 

Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 10:29 AM
To: Alexandre Torres Porres; Dan Wilcox; Jonathan Wilkes; Pd-List
Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but 
not in Purr Data




https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms533820(v=vs.85).aspx

http://code.activestate.com/lists/tcl-core/8158/#sthash.qJEhQALT.dpuf


>>@Dan:


>>The Tcl thing is just for Windows?


>Yes as it’s using the Window’s API.


What can I do to test if this work?

Put the tcl code where?

Can you guide me?

Or IOhannes?



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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Lucas Cordiviola]

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms533820(v=vs.85).aspx

http://code.activestate.com/lists/tcl-core/8158/#sthash.qJEhQALT.dpuf


>>@Dan:


>>The Tcl thing is just for Windows?


>Yes as it’s using the Window’s API.


What can I do to test if this work?

Put the tcl code where?

Can you guide me?

Or IOhannes?



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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Dan Wilcox]

I added two builds that include Dejavu Sans Mono within the app bundle, so it 
works without needing to manually install the font: 
http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/ 

The font itself is only 320Kb. This seems to be working for me using both Tk 
8.4 & 8.6, although the latter still exhibit the object box width issue (a 
separate problem).

Technically, as I mentioned in an earlier email, the solution is to add a key 
to the app bundle Info.plist and include the font file in the app bundle’s 
resource list. When the app is launched, the font is loaded automatically and 
available for use with Tk.

> On Feb 12, 2017, at 8:23 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres  wrote:
> 
> 2017-02-12 6:05 GMT-02:00 Dan Wilcox  >:
> 
> The actual culprit is that sys_font & sys_fontweight are set as Monaco 
> (normal) when building for Mac and Deja Vu Sans Mono (bold) when building for 
> the other platforms in s_main.c.
> 
> cool, that's what I noticed, at least this could be simply worked out, right? 
> 
> I think they both need to be either normal or bold by default in every 
> system, and I like "normal" much better, that's how it's always been in 
> Extended and now in Purr Data as well anyway ;)
> 
> cheers


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Dan Wilcox]

> On Feb 12, 2017, at 6:49 PM, Lucas Cordiviola  wrote:
> 
> >Another issue is that, for many, the rendering of a bolded DVSM will simply 
> >look *ulgy* to those used to a normal-weight Monaco, especially if they 
> >never used an earlier version of Pd or Pd on Linux.
> 
> IMO the default cross platform font should NOT be Bold. As Dan said OSX users 
> will most likely find it ugly, and it was not bold in Pd-extended nor is in 
> Purr-Data.

I tested with bold as that is the default font weight for vanilla on Linux 
AFAICT.

> >>How difficult is to deploy DejaVu on Mac?
> 
> >Typically, add a key to the app bundle Info.plist and include the font in 
> >the app bundle's Resource folder. This means the font does not have to be 
> >installed system- or user- wide but only used by the app itself. This 
> >assumes Tk’s handling of app bundles picks up on registered fonts from the 
> >plist (it should). 
> 
> >As for Windows, it looks like it’s possible to load a font that comes with 
> >the app (the Windows API alls this a:
> 
> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms533820(v=vs.85).aspx
>  
> 
> 
> http://code.activestate.com/lists/tcl-core/8158/#sthash.qJEhQALT.dpuf 
> 
> 
> @Dan:
> 
> The Tcl thing is just for Windows?

Yes as it’s using the Window’s API.

> Or Cross-platform?

No. See above.

I know the Mac solution. Deja Vu is usually installed on Linux systems and, if 
not, can be an install requirement by whatever package manager is being used. 
There is no need to distribute and install a copy of the font on Linux.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Lucas Cordiviola]

>Another issue is that, for many, the rendering of a bolded DVSM will simply 
>look *ulgy* to those used to a normal-weight Monaco, especially if they never 
>used an earlier version of Pd or Pd on Linux.

IMO the default cross platform font should NOT be Bold. As Dan said OSX users 
will most likely find it ugly, and it was not bold in Pd-extended nor is in 
Purr-Data.


>OTOH having consistent font width on all platforms would be a big plus 
>overall. Changing the default font on Mac could be a Pd compatibility mode 
>option as well.

Yes, anyway is rather easy to switch back to Monaco from Pds startupflags. And 
to go back to DVMS you simply delete the flag. (we have trouble with font names 
with spaces on Mac & Windows)



>>How difficult is to deploy DejaVu on Mac?


>Typically, add a key to the app bundle Info.plist and include the font in the 
>app bundle's Resource folder. This means the font does not have to be 
>installed system- or user- wide but only used by the app itself. This assumes 
>Tk’s handling of app bundles picks up on registered fonts from the plist (it 
>should).


>As for Windows, it looks like it’s possible to load a font that comes with the 
>app (the Windows API alls this a:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms533820(v=vs.85).aspx


http://code.activestate.com/lists/tcl-core/8158/#sthash.qJEhQALT.dpuf


@Dan:

The Tcl thing is just for Windows?
Or Cross-platform?

On the Tcl link the guy is asking for something that works for Windows & Linux.




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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list]

> As for comparisons, here’s the same patch using Deja Vu Sans Mono and Monaco, 
> both with Tk 8.4 & with Tk 8.6 Retina HiDPI rendering: 
> https://flic.kr/p/QLGphN (zoom in or download & view at full size)


> Jonathan: One of the remaining problems I have with the Tk 8.6 build is the 
> padding added to the object box width in HiDPI. Any clues on what to look 
> into to fix this? The object arguments are clearly the same width… or appear 
> to be.
Pd Vanilla has a different font-sizing/box-sizing algorithm than the one 
I described.  Instead of fitting font sizes to a spec, it amends the spec to 
accommodate the actual font sizes.

Look at the Tk 8.6 DejuVu Sans Mono bold retina text, for example.  Even if 
you had no padding, the text "tabread~ 29-envelope" is actually wider than 
the box that contains that text in all the other examples.
Probably Vanilla works that way because of the limitation of integer-based 
font sizing in Tk.  Even though the text in that example is wider than the 
others, 
it still appears to my eye to be roughly similar size.  If instead you kept the 
box 
width constant and chose the next smallest integer to fit that text, the whole 
patch would appear to contain smaller text than other examples.
-Jonathan
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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Miller Puckette]

About that padding - the Tcl code sends Pd the font metrics on startup, and
Pd follows them in setting the dimensions of boxes.  So I guess the new version
of Tcl/Tk is overstating the font width by one pixel.  Perhaps height is also
wrong in the same way (make a mesages box with 20-ish lines in it and see if 
the box
is 20 pixels too tall).

cheers
M

On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 02:39:32AM -0700, Dan Wilcox wrote:
> As for comparisons, here’s the same patch using Deja Vu Sans Mono and Monaco, 
> both with Tk 8.4 & with Tk 8.6 Retina HiDPI rendering: 
> https://flic.kr/p/QLGphN  (zoom in or download & 
> view at full size)
> 
> Jonathan: One of the remaining problems I have with the Tk 8.6 build is the 
> padding added to the object box width in HiDPI. Any clues on what to look 
> into to fix this? The object arguments are clearly the same width… or appear 
> to be.
> 

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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

2017-02-12 6:05 GMT-02:00 Dan Wilcox :

>
> The actual culprit is that sys_font & sys_fontweight are set as Monaco
> (normal) when building for Mac and Deja Vu Sans Mono (bold) when building
> for the other platforms in s_main.c.
>

cool, that's what I noticed, at least this could be simply worked out,
right?

I think they both need to be either normal or bold by default in every
system, and I like "normal" much better, that's how it's always been in
Extended and now in Purr Data as well anyway ;)

cheers
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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

2017-02-12 12:51 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres :

> so, anyway, if the new tk86 is loading Monaco
>

it is, I deleted DVSM and reopened it, got the same result, and no warning
saying (couldn't load DVSM)

so, it's monaco, and it looks smaller
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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Dan Wilcox]

Anyway, it’s very late and I’m still wondering how I find myself working on 
this after a Saturday spent on a glacier at 11000 ft (Colorado!). :)

I may look into this again sometime later this week.

> On Feb 12, 2017, at 2:54 AM, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Feb 12, 2017, at 2:39 AM, Dan Wilcox > > wrote:
>> 
>> As for comparisons, here’s the same patch using Deja Vu Sans Mono and 
>> Monaco, both with Tk 8.4 & with Tk 8.6 Retina HiDPI rendering: 
>> https://flic.kr/p/QLGphN  (zoom in or download & 
>> view at full size)
> 
> Also, here’s an animated GIF comparing DJVSM vs. Monaco: 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/32854359825/sizes/o/ 
> 
> 
>> Jonathan: One of the remaining problems I have with the Tk 8.6 build is the 
>> padding added to the object box width in HiDPI. Any clues on what to look 
>> into to fix this? The object arguments are clearly the same width… or appear 
>> to be.
> 
> Here’s an animated GIF showing width difference using the same font on Tk 8.4 
> & 8.6: https://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/32854378005/sizes/o/ 
> 

Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Dan Wilcox]

> On Feb 12, 2017, at 2:39 AM, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
> 
> As for comparisons, here’s the same patch using Deja Vu Sans Mono and Monaco, 
> both with Tk 8.4 & with Tk 8.6 Retina HiDPI rendering: 
> https://flic.kr/p/QLGphN  (zoom in or download & 
> view at full size)

Also, here’s an animated GIF comparing DJVSM vs. Monaco: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/32854359825/sizes/o/ 


> Jonathan: One of the remaining problems I have with the Tk 8.6 build is the 
> padding added to the object box width in HiDPI. Any clues on what to look 
> into to fix this? The object arguments are clearly the same width… or appear 
> to be.

Here’s an animated GIF showing width difference using the same font on Tk 8.4 & 
8.6: https://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/32854378005/sizes/o/ 



Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Dan Wilcox]

As for comparisons, here’s the same patch using Deja Vu Sans Mono and Monaco, 
both with Tk 8.4 & with Tk 8.6 Retina HiDPI rendering: https://flic.kr/p/QLGphN 
 (zoom in or download & view at full size)

Jonathan: One of the remaining problems I have with the Tk 8.6 build is the 
padding added to the object box width in HiDPI. Any clues on what to look into 
to fix this? The object arguments are clearly the same width… or appear to be.

> On Feb 12, 2017, at 2:03 AM, Lucas Cordiviola  wrote:
> 
> Cool,
> 
> Do you think this needs further testing before implementation?

Yup.

At the very least, changing the default font for macOS users means causing 
possible layout issues in their patches, especially when it comes to GOP. I 
loaded a couple of my fancier ones and noticed a few issues such as symbol 
atoms not appearing on GOP since they are slightly wider using Deja Vu Sans 
Mono than with Monaco. I noticed this in the past when I transitioned from 
Linux to Mac as well, except in that case I had more room.

Another issue is that, for many, the rendering of a bolded DVSM will simply 
look *ulgy* to those used to a normal-weight Monaco, especially if they never 
used an earlier version of Pd or Pd on Linux.

OTOH having consistent font width on all platforms would be a big plus overall. 
Changing the default font on Mac could be a Pd compatibility mode option as 
well.

IMHO I think the default font shouldn’t really be set in the C core anyway but 
in the Tcl which already detects the platforms.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Lucas Cordiviola]

Cool,

Do you think this needs further testing before implementation?


Alex can come with some news tomorrow testing DejaVu on all platforms.


Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.



From: Dan Wilcox 
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 8:39 AM
To: Lucas Cordiviola
Cc: Pd-List; Jonathan Wilkes; Alexandre Torres Porres
Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but 
not in Purr Data


On Feb 12, 2017, at 1:21 AM, Lucas Cordiviola 
> wrote:

>Bad metaphor, not a fight.

You’re right!!!

Is just because there are no girls on this list.
And this is a typical masculine joke.

Oh I got it, didn’t want it. There are women (not girls) on this list.


>The actual culprit is that sys_font & sys_fontweight are set as Monaco 
>(normal) when building for Mac and Deja Vu Sans Mono (bold) when building for 
>the other platforms in s_main.c.

How difficult is to deploy DejaVu on Mac?

On Windows it needs an installer that puts it on the c:\windows\fonts and add 
some registry-keys.

Typically, add a key to the app bundle Info.plist and include the font in the 
app bundle's Resource folder. This means the font does not have to be installed 
system- or user- wide but only used by the app itself. This assumes Tk’s 
handling of app bundles picks up on registered fonts from the plist (it should).

As for Windows, it looks like it’s possible to load a font that comes with the 
app (the Windows API alls this a Private Font 
Collection):
 http://code.activestate.com/lists/tcl-core/8158/#sthash.qJEhQALT.dpuf


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika
danomatika.com
robotcowboy.com



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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Dan Wilcox]

> On Feb 12, 2017, at 1:21 AM, Lucas Cordiviola  wrote:
> 
> >Bad metaphor, not a fight. 
> 
> You’re right!!!
> 
> Is just because there are no girls on this list.
> And this is a typical masculine joke.

Oh I got it, didn’t want it. There are women (not girls) on this list.

> >The actual culprit is that sys_font & sys_fontweight are set as Monaco 
> >(normal) when building for Mac and Deja Vu Sans Mono (bold) when building 
> >for the other platforms in s_main.c. 
> 
> How difficult is to deploy DejaVu on Mac?
> 
> On Windows it needs an installer that puts it on the c:\windows\fonts and add 
> some registry-keys.


Typically, add a key to the app bundle Info.plist and include the font in the 
app bundle's Resource folder. This means the font does not have to be installed 
system- or user- wide but only used by the app itself. This assumes Tk’s 
handling of app bundles picks up on registered fonts from the plist (it should).

As for Windows, it looks like it’s possible to load a font that comes with the 
app (the Windows API alls this a Private Font Collection 
):
 http://code.activestate.com/lists/tcl-core/8158/#sthash.qJEhQALT.dpuf 



Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Lucas Cordiviola]

Or on Windows you can manually install it by a double-click on the TTF and 
select to install.


Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.



From: Pd-list  on behalf of Lucas Cordiviola 

Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 8:21 AM
To: Dan Wilcox; Pd-List; Jonathan Wilkes; Alexandre Torres Porres
Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but 
not in Purr Data


>Bad metaphor, not a fight.

You’re right!!!

Is just because there are no girls on this list.
And this is a typical masculine joke.


>The actual culprit is that sys_font & sys_fontweight are set as Monaco 
>(normal) when building for Mac and Deja Vu Sans Mono (bold) when building for 
>the other platforms in s_main.c.

How difficult is to deploy DejaVu on Mac?

On Windows it needs an installer that puts it on the c:\windows\fonts and add 
some registry-keys.



Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.



From: Dan Wilcox 
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 8:05 AM
To: Lucas Cordiviola
Cc: Jonathan Wilkes; Pd-List; Alexandre Torres Porres
Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but 
not in Purr Data

Bad metaphor, not a fight.

On Feb 12, 2017, at 12:52 AM, Lucas Cordiviola 
> wrote:

We are just holding Miller`s Bridge!!!.

The actual culprit is that sys_font & sys_fontweight are set as Monaco (normal) 
when building for Mac and Deja Vu Sans Mono (bold) when building for the other 
platforms in s_main.c.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika
danomatika.com
robotcowboy.com



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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Lucas Cordiviola]

>Bad metaphor, not a fight.

You’re right!!!

Is just because there are no girls on this list.
And this is a typical masculine joke.


>The actual culprit is that sys_font & sys_fontweight are set as Monaco 
>(normal) when building for Mac and Deja Vu Sans Mono (bold) when building for 
>the other platforms in s_main.c.

How difficult is to deploy DejaVu on Mac?

On Windows it needs an installer that puts it on the c:\windows\fonts and add 
some registry-keys.



Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.



From: Dan Wilcox 
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 8:05 AM
To: Lucas Cordiviola
Cc: Jonathan Wilkes; Pd-List; Alexandre Torres Porres
Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but 
not in Purr Data

Bad metaphor, not a fight.

On Feb 12, 2017, at 12:52 AM, Lucas Cordiviola 
> wrote:

We are just holding Miller`s Bridge!!!.

The actual culprit is that sys_font & sys_fontweight are set as Monaco (normal) 
when building for Mac and Deja Vu Sans Mono (bold) when building for the other 
platforms in s_main.c.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika
danomatika.com
robotcowboy.com



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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Dan Wilcox]

Bad metaphor, not a fight.

> On Feb 12, 2017, at 12:52 AM, Lucas Cordiviola  wrote:
> 
> We are just holding Miller`s Bridge!!!.

The actual culprit is that sys_font & sys_fontweight are set as Monaco (normal) 
when building for Mac and Deja Vu Sans Mono (bold) when building for the other 
platforms in s_main.c.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Lucas Cordiviola]

Looks like the cavalry has arrived to the south.

Alex, do we have 44-40 ammunition for the gentlemans?

We are just holding Miller`s Bridge!!!.

@ Jonathan:


>There is a problem with Hans' solution.  It fits the boxes tightly around the

fonts as measured at runtime.  This makes it impossible for a user to know

if the same patch with a different font will have overlapping objects on 
another user's machine.

If is impossible to know what happens on a different font why don’t we stick to 
“one” for a standard.


>(Or the same font with a different font-rendering stack, or even

a different version of the same stack!)

I trust in you but this is out of scope for me.
How this translate on using just one “font” on just one “vanilla”?



Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.



From: Pd-list  on behalf of Dan Wilcox 

Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 7:45 AM
To: Jonathan Wilkes
Cc: Pd-List
Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but 
not in Purr Data

Good to know the reasoning why the pixel fiddling stuff didn’t make it over 
with the guy update into vanilla.

I’m seeing the padding issue with the object boxes when rendered in high dpi on 
OSX and now I know what it is.

I do agree with Alexandre that using the same font on all platforms would help 
in regards to layout in patches between OSs.

On Feb 12, 2017, at 12:20 AM, Jonathan Wilkes 
> wrote:

For some fonts/font sizes the best fit will inevitably leave some extra space 
at the
right of the box inside the border.  But that space is visually required to keep
users from placing two boxes so close together that they overlap on a platform
that renders the same font slightly wider.

Otherwise you get users caught up in a vicious cycle of breaking/fixing each
other's object spacing in patches.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika
danomatika.com
robotcowboy.com



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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Dan Wilcox]

As a followup after checking pd-gui.tcl, the default font is Deja Vu Sans Mono 
in the find_default_font method, followed buy Bitstream Vera Sands Mono, 
Inconsolata, etc.

The problem is that this method is only called in startup if tk 8.5 is being 
used, as it is right now, the precompiled Vanilla is built using the older tk 
8.4 Wish app so the font finding method is not used.

Alex, can you try one of my vanilla builds that uses tk 8.6? 
http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/ 

Since you have Deja Vu installed on the system, it should be picked up 
automatically (in theory).

> On Feb 12, 2017, at 12:15 AM, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
> 
> What I was referring to was also the pixel & font sizing based on the 
> platform. The default font search stuff from extended is in vanilla, at least 
> in the tk side of things AFAICT. Monaco is the default on OS X because it’s 
> pretty much guaranteed to be there. Deja Vu is not, but I would think the 
> font search would check for that first…
> 
> If you only want that font, it shouldn’t be too hard to change the defaults. 
> Perhaps a better solution is to ship with the font itself on Win/Mac. I do 
> this with PdParty on iOS which displays using Deja Vu Sans Mono ...
> 
>> On Feb 11, 2017, at 11:51 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres > > wrote:
>> 
>> 2017-02-12 4:00 GMT-02:00 Dan Wilcox > >:
>> This was fixed in extended years ago and the font handling improvements have 
>> simply not been ported to Vanilla. Your point is clear, what is not clear is 
>> (as usual) who is going to spend the time to port Hans' working solution to 
>> vanilla and in such a way as to have it accepted.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika 
> danomatika.com 
> robotcowboy.com 
> 
> 
> 


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Dan Wilcox]

Good to know the reasoning why the pixel fiddling stuff didn’t make it over 
with the guy update into vanilla. 

I’m seeing the padding issue with the object boxes when rendered in high dpi on 
OSX and now I know what it is.

I do agree with Alexandre that using the same font on all platforms would help 
in regards to layout in patches between OSs.

> On Feb 12, 2017, at 12:20 AM, Jonathan Wilkes  wrote:
> 
> For some fonts/font sizes the best fit will inevitably leave some extra space 
> at the 
> right of the box inside the border.  But that space is visually required to 
> keep 
> users from placing two boxes so close together that they overlap on a 
> platform 
> that renders the same font slightly wider.
> 
> Otherwise you get users caught up in a vicious cycle of breaking/fixing each 
> other's object spacing in patches.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list]

> This was fixed in extended years ago and the font handling improvements have 
> simply not been ported to Vanilla. Your point is clear, what is not clear is 
> (as usual) who is going to spend the time to port Hans' working solution to 
> vanilla and in such a way as to have it accepted.


There is a problem with Hans' solution.  It fits the boxes tightly around the 
fonts as measured at runtime.  This makes it impossible for a user to know 
if the same patch with a different font will have overlapping objects on 
another user's machine.  (Or the same font with a different font-rendering 
stack, or even 
a different version of the same stack!) 
Boxes should be sized based on hard-coded metrics for each font size for a 
chosen reference font, and then fonts measured at runtime to fit within that 
box.
For some fonts/font sizes the best fit will inevitably leave some extra space 
at the 
right of the box inside the border.  But that space is visually required to 
keep 
users from placing two boxes so close together that they overlap on a platform 
that renders the same font slightly wider.

Otherwise you get users caught up in a vicious cycle of breaking/fixing each 
other's object spacing in patches.
-Jonathan
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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

2017-02-12 4:00 GMT-02:00 Dan Wilcox :

> This was fixed in extended years ago and the font handling improvements
> have simply not been ported to Vanilla. Your point is clear, what is not
> clear is (as usual) who is going to spend the time to port Hans' working
> solution to vanilla and in such a way as to have it accepted.
>



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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Matt Barber]

You can open Pd from the command line in mac:

cd to the bin directory of the application folder, e.g.:

/Applications/Pd-0.47-1.app/Contents/Resources/bin

(or the 64-bit equivalent).

Run
./pd -help
to get list of startup flags

./pd -font-face "DejaVu Sans Mono"
to open Pd with dejavu font.

On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 3:55 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres 
wrote:

> open: unrecognized option `--help'
>
> 2017-02-11 18:54 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola :
>
>>
>> We know the problem.
>>
>> Try:
>>
>> open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app --help
>>
>> note the “--”
>>
>> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
>>
>>
>> --
>> *From:* Alexandre Torres Porres 
>> *Sent:* Saturday, February 11, 2017 8:45 PM
>> *To:* Lucas Cordiviola
>> *Cc:* pd-list@lists.iem.at
>> *Subject:* Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in
>> vanilla but not in Purr Data
>>
>> got the same error, starting now with
>>
>> " open: invalid option -- l "
>>
>> 2017-02-11 18:21 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola :
>>
>>> Try:
>>>
>>> open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app -help
>>>
>>> this should return all possible startup flags to your terminal.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Dan Wilcox]

This was fixed in extended years ago and the font handling improvements have 
simply not been ported to Vanilla. Your point is clear, what is not clear is 
(as usual) who is going to spend the time to port Hans' working solution to 
vanilla and in such a way as to have it accepted.

> On Feb 11, 2017, at 10:07 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> From: Alexandre Torres Porres >
> Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but 
> not in Purr Data
> Date: February 11, 2017 at 10:07:44 PM MST
> To: Lucas Cordiviola >
> Cc: "pd-list@lists.iem.at " 
> >
> 
> 
> please let me reinforce something, cause I feel like I'm repeating myself a 
> lot... maybe I'm not making myself clear, maybe I'm a very confusing guy and 
> troubled mind, but it's been over 30 messages and all I'm really saying (all 
> along, from the very first message) is this:
> 
> hey: 
> 1- Purr Data and Extended look like and consistent... they give you fonts you 
> need, and all patches look nice in cross platforms.
> 2- vanilla doesn't give you fonts you need and when you get them, it looks 
> bad, inconsistent in between different platforms and even different than in 
> Extended/Purr Data with the same fonts...
> 
> and all I have is a request: - please lets fix this vanilla issue
> 
> sorry, dont get me wrong, I love that you're with me here and I'm also 
> willing to help and investigate this, but it's just that it seems we're not 
> making much progress and that I'm not making my point clear.
> 
> cheers


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

funny how I see no difference with -font-weight normal or bold in vanilla,
just looks the same (and bad)

2017-02-12 0:22 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres :

>
>
> 2017-02-12 0:11 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola :
>
>> Sure, I’m also happy.
>>
>> I`m not on my computer atm, but if iirc the coll-help you did looks
>> better on my pc.
>>
>
> cool, i've been working on it since we put cyclone 0.3 pre-alpha 4 or
> something, but it's still the same font size and averything
>
> #N canvas 553 23 558 592 10;
>
>
> check if its the same file both on Windows & Mac.
>>
>
> it's the same file, from git, can't go wrong, same one, same size
>
> So, what really intrigues me is why it looks "ok" in extended, but "weird"
> in vanilla, if it is the same font and all... guess we need to understand
> that
>
> cheers
>
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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

2017-02-12 0:11 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola :

> Sure, I’m also happy.
>
> I`m not on my computer atm, but if iirc the coll-help you did looks better
> on my pc.
>

cool, i've been working on it since we put cyclone 0.3 pre-alpha 4 or
something, but it's still the same font size and averything

#N canvas 553 23 558 592 10;


check if its the same file both on Windows & Mac.
>

it's the same file, from git, can't go wrong, same one, same size

So, what really intrigues me is why it looks "ok" in extended, but "weird"
in vanilla, if it is the same font and all... guess we need to understand
that

cheers
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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Lucas Cordiviola]

Sure, I’m also happy.

I`m not on my computer atm, but if iirc the coll-help you did looks better on 
my pc.

Did you changed the font size?

Drag the coll-help.pd to a new tab on chrome.

The first line ends with the font size for that patch , e.g:

#N canvas 258 200 450 300 10;
#X obj 146 102 dac~;

in this case font size is 10.

check if its the same file both on Windows & Mac.

–
It will ease a lot solving the issue if the name of the font somehow loses the 
spaces in its name.



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From: Alexandre Torres Porres 
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 1:41 AM
To: Lucas Cordiviola
Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but 
not in Purr Data



2017-02-11 22:38 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola 
>:
Yes, C`mon Alex. The font was installed via the installer. I used it since 2006 
on win xp.

sure, and I'm trying to point that there are ways here to make a pd vanilla 
install that takes care of all this. I might be stating the obvious, but I'm 
also just keeping a focus to this discussion.

obviously there's a way to make pd install in any platform and take care of 
such things so they all end up using the same font and looking the same way and 
that's all I wanna raise.

Of course I'm also happy to investigate and make a detailed report of what the 
current situation is right now for every platform. I guess we also learned that 
Pd Vanilla has an issue/bug loading some fonts in Mac OS! Great...

cheers
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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

2017-02-11 22:38 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola :
>
> Yes, C`mon Alex. The font was installed via the installer. I used it since
> 2006 on win xp.
>

sure, and I'm trying to point that there are ways here to make a pd vanilla
install that takes care of all this. I might be stating the obvious, but
I'm also just keeping a focus to this discussion.

obviously there's a way to make pd install in any platform and take care of
such things so they all end up using the same font and looking the same way
and that's all I wanna raise.

Of course I'm also happy to investigate and make a detailed report of what
the current situation is right now for every platform. I guess we also
learned that Pd Vanilla has an issue/bug loading some fonts in Mac OS!
Great...

cheers
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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Lucas Cordiviola]

>>Yes:


>>Apparently the cross-plataform issue is because OSX only handle fonts with no 
>>spaces in its name.


>not at all, this is not in the account of OSX... I can use DejaVu Sans Mono in 
>all other softwares but Pd Vanilla, so this is in Pd's account, sorry…

I understand your misunderstanding, I ment that Pd on OSX cant open fonts with 
spaces in its name. & this is related also to tk/tcl.


>and, also, purr data loads dejavu sans in Mac OS

Yes, because of the CSS “@font-face ”, which in turn allows web browsers to 
load fonts “on the fly” which can be stored anywhere and not need to be 
installed on the OS.


>well... not sure if something important was clear enough, let me say again, in 
>windows, Pd Extended came and loaded DejaVu Sans Mono!

Yes, C`mon Alex. The font was installed via the installer. I used it since 2006 
on win xp.




>So, check it out... vanilla in windows complained for the lack of DejaVu Sans 
>Mono, then I installed Extended and it was using DejaVu, so I reopen Vanilla 
>and now it finds it.

Yes, you could also have installed just the font instead of installing extended.


>This to me makes it seem it's totally possible for Pd to ship and load fonts 
>accordingly, but that's not all…

Yes, if you use an installer. (at least on mswindows)


>In Extended, the font still looks ok and nice, it doesn't corrupt the visuals 
>in the patch, it's only in vanilla that things get screwed up


>here, let me show you 2 print screens, a patch in Extended that looks a lot 
>like the Mac Os version with Monaco, that looks also reasonably the same as 
>Purr Data in every platform, and how vanilla in windows with dejavu sans got 
>screwy... in the same way as in linux…

Retry using dejavu but with “-font-weight normal” on Pd`s startupflags. And 
resize font to 10. I cant remember which was extended default font size.




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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Lucas Cordiviola]

>but I was hoping that this discussion would lead to what we could do in order 
>to make it consistent ;)

Some possible solution could be to do a special compile which changes the names 
to “DejaVu-Sans-Mono” (no spaces)

https://github.com/dejavu-fonts/dejavu-fonts


And ship that?
Asking users to install it?



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From: Pd-list  on behalf of Lucas Cordiviola 

Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 9:05 PM
To: Alexandre Torres Porres; pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but 
not in Purr Data


Yes:

Apparently the cross-plataform issue is because OSX only handle fonts with no 
spaces in its name.

We are unable to test “DejaVu Sans Mono”



Salutti,

Lucarda.


Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.



From: Alexandre Torres Porres 
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 8:57 PM
To: Lucas Cordiviola
Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but 
not in Purr Data

well, anyway... this will surely, in my opinion, prove that if you set the same 
font it'll look as in the other OSs...

but I was hoping that this discussion would lead to what we could do in order 
to make it consistent ;)

thanks

2017-02-11 18:55 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres 
>:

open: unrecognized option `--help'

2017-02-11 18:54 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola 
>:


We know the problem.

Try:

open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app --help

note the “--”


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From: Alexandre Torres Porres >
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 8:45 PM
To: Lucas Cordiviola
Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but 
not in Purr Data

got the same error, starting now with

" open: invalid option -- l "

2017-02-11 18:21 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola 
>:

Try:

open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app -help

this should return all possible startup flags to your terminal.



Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.





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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Lucas Cordiviola]

Yes:

Apparently the cross-plataform issue is because OSX only handle fonts with no 
spaces in its name.

We are unable to test “DejaVu Sans Mono”



Salutti,

Lucarda.


Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.



From: Alexandre Torres Porres 
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 8:57 PM
To: Lucas Cordiviola
Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but 
not in Purr Data

well, anyway... this will surely, in my opinion, prove that if you set the same 
font it'll look as in the other OSs...

but I was hoping that this discussion would lead to what we could do in order 
to make it consistent ;)

thanks

2017-02-11 18:55 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres 
>:

open: unrecognized option `--help'

2017-02-11 18:54 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola 
>:


We know the problem.

Try:

open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app --help

note the “--”


Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.



From: Alexandre Torres Porres >
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 8:45 PM
To: Lucas Cordiviola
Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but 
not in Purr Data

got the same error, starting now with

" open: invalid option -- l "

2017-02-11 18:21 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola 
>:

Try:

open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app -help

this should return all possible startup flags to your terminal.



Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.





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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

well, anyway... this will surely, in my opinion, prove that if you set the
same font it'll look as in the other OSs...

but I was hoping that this discussion would lead to what we could do in
order to make it consistent ;)

thanks

2017-02-11 18:55 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres :

> open: unrecognized option `--help'
>
> 2017-02-11 18:54 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola :
>
>>
>> We know the problem.
>>
>> Try:
>>
>> open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app --help
>>
>> note the “--”
>>
>> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
>>
>>
>> --
>> *From:* Alexandre Torres Porres 
>> *Sent:* Saturday, February 11, 2017 8:45 PM
>> *To:* Lucas Cordiviola
>> *Cc:* pd-list@lists.iem.at
>> *Subject:* Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in
>> vanilla but not in Purr Data
>>
>> got the same error, starting now with
>>
>> " open: invalid option -- l "
>>
>> 2017-02-11 18:21 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola :
>>
>>> Try:
>>>
>>> open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app -help
>>>
>>> this should return all possible startup flags to your terminal.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

open: unrecognized option `--help'

2017-02-11 18:54 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola :

>
> We know the problem.
>
> Try:
>
> open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app --help
>
> note the “--”
>
> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
>
>
> --
> *From:* Alexandre Torres Porres 
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 11, 2017 8:45 PM
> *To:* Lucas Cordiviola
> *Cc:* pd-list@lists.iem.at
> *Subject:* Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in
> vanilla but not in Purr Data
>
> got the same error, starting now with
>
> " open: invalid option -- l "
>
> 2017-02-11 18:21 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola :
>
>> Try:
>>
>> open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app -help
>>
>> this should return all possible startup flags to your terminal.
>>
>>
>> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Lucas Cordiviola]

We know the problem.

Try:

open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app --help

note the “--”


Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.



From: Alexandre Torres Porres 
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 8:45 PM
To: Lucas Cordiviola
Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but 
not in Purr Data

got the same error, starting now with

" open: invalid option -- l "

2017-02-11 18:21 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola 
>:

Try:

open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app -help

this should return all possible startup flags to your terminal.



Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.



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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

got the same error, starting now with

" open: invalid option -- l "

2017-02-11 18:21 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola :

> Try:
>
> open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app -help
>
> this should return all possible startup flags to your terminal.
>
>
> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
>
>
> --
> *From:* Alexandre Torres Porres 
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 11, 2017 7:41 PM
> *To:* Lucas Cordiviola; pd-list@lists.iem.at
> *Subject:* Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in
> vanilla but not in Purr Data
>
>
> if I do: open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app/
>
> I open Pd
>
> If I do: open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app -font-face "DejaVu
> Sans Mono"
>
>
> I get
>
>
> open: invalid option -- o
>
> Usage: open [-e] [-t] [-f] [-W] [-R] [-n] [-g] [-h] [-s  name>][-b ] [-a ] [filenames] [--args
> arguments]
>
> Help: Open opens files from a shell.
>
>   By default, opens each file using the default application for that
> file.
>
>   If the file is in the form of a URL, the file will be opened as a
> URL.
>
> Options:
>
>   -aOpens with the specified application.
>
>   -bOpens with the specified application bundle
> identifier.
>
>   -eOpens with TextEdit.
>
>   -tOpens with default text editor.
>
>   -fReads input from standard input and opens with
> TextEdit.
>
>   -F  --fresh   Launches the app fresh, that is, without restoring
> windows. Saved persistent state is lost, excluding Untitled documents.
>
>   -R, --reveal  Selects in the Finder instead of opening.
>
>   -W, --wait-apps   Blocks until the used applications are closed
> (even if they were already running).
>
>   --argsAll remaining arguments are passed in argv to the
> application's main() function instead of opened.
>
>   -n, --new Open a new instance of the application even if one
> is already running.
>
>   -j, --hideLaunches the app hidden.
>
>   -g, --background  Does not bring the application to the foreground.
>
>   -h, --header  Searches header file locations for headers
> matching the given filenames, and opens them.
>
>   -sFor -h, the SDK to use; if supplied, only SDKs
> whose names contain the argument value are searched.
>
> Otherwise the highest versioned SDK in each
> platform is used.
>
> Alexandres-MacBook-Pro:~ porres$
>
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Lucas Cordiviola]

Try:

open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app -help

this should return all possible startup flags to your terminal.



Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.



From: Alexandre Torres Porres 
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 7:41 PM
To: Lucas Cordiviola; pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but 
not in Purr Data


if I do: open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app/

I open Pd

If I do: open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app -font-face "DejaVu Sans Mono"


I get


open: invalid option -- o

Usage: open [-e] [-t] [-f] [-W] [-R] [-n] [-g] [-h] [-s ][-b 
] [-a ] [filenames] [--args arguments]

Help: Open opens files from a shell.

  By default, opens each file using the default application for that file.

  If the file is in the form of a URL, the file will be opened as a URL.

Options:

  -aOpens with the specified application.

  -bOpens with the specified application bundle identifier.

  -eOpens with TextEdit.

  -tOpens with default text editor.

  -fReads input from standard input and opens with TextEdit.

  -F  --fresh   Launches the app fresh, that is, without restoring 
windows. Saved persistent state is lost, excluding Untitled documents.

  -R, --reveal  Selects in the Finder instead of opening.

  -W, --wait-apps   Blocks until the used applications are closed (even if 
they were already running).

  --argsAll remaining arguments are passed in argv to the 
application's main() function instead of opened.

  -n, --new Open a new instance of the application even if one is 
already running.

  -j, --hideLaunches the app hidden.

  -g, --background  Does not bring the application to the foreground.

  -h, --header  Searches header file locations for headers matching the 
given filenames, and opens them.

  -sFor -h, the SDK to use; if supplied, only SDKs whose 
names contain the argument value are searched.

Otherwise the highest versioned SDK in each platform is 
used.

Alexandres-MacBook-Pro:~ porres$


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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

if I do: open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app/

I open Pd

If I do: open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app -font-face "DejaVu Sans
Mono"


I get


open: invalid option -- o

Usage: open [-e] [-t] [-f] [-W] [-R] [-n] [-g] [-h] [-s ][-b ] [-a ] [filenames] [--args
arguments]

Help: Open opens files from a shell.

  By default, opens each file using the default application for that
file.

  If the file is in the form of a URL, the file will be opened as a URL.

Options:

  -aOpens with the specified application.

  -bOpens with the specified application bundle
identifier.

  -eOpens with TextEdit.

  -tOpens with default text editor.

  -fReads input from standard input and opens with
TextEdit.

  -F  --fresh   Launches the app fresh, that is, without restoring
windows. Saved persistent state is lost, excluding Untitled documents.

  -R, --reveal  Selects in the Finder instead of opening.

  -W, --wait-apps   Blocks until the used applications are closed (even
if they were already running).

  --argsAll remaining arguments are passed in argv to the
application's main() function instead of opened.

  -n, --new Open a new instance of the application even if one
is already running.

  -j, --hideLaunches the app hidden.

  -g, --background  Does not bring the application to the foreground.

  -h, --header  Searches header file locations for headers matching
the given filenames, and opens them.

  -sFor -h, the SDK to use; if supplied, only SDKs
whose names contain the argument value are searched.

Otherwise the highest versioned SDK in each
platform is used.

Alexandres-MacBook-Pro:~ porres$




2017-02-11 17:28 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola :

> You killed me, I`m not an OSX user, but:
>
> http://www.hccp.org/command-line-os-x.html
>
> http://osxdaily.com/2007/02/01/how-to-launch-gui-application
> s-from-the-terminal/
>
> https://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/how-to-launch-os-x-
> apps-from-the-command-line
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1308755/launch-an-app-on-
> os-x-with-command-line
>
>
> ?
> ?
> ?
> ?
>
>
> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
>
>
> --
> *From:* Alexandre Torres Porres 
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 11, 2017 7:16 PM
> *To:* Lucas Cordiviola
> *Cc:* pd-list@lists.iem.at
> *Subject:* Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in
> vanilla but not in Purr Data
>
> >  but works by passing it from the command line, with quotes:
> > Can you test this equivalent on Mac?
>
> I need every baby step possible with all the details for me to test it ;)
>
> 2017-02-11 16:14 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola :
>
>> *>seems that using quotes to set up the font with more than one word
>> works in linux but not in Mac :/ *
>>
>>
>> On Windows doesn’t work from the startup flags from pd, but works by
>> passing it from the command line, with quotes:
>>
>> %CD%\pd\bin\pd -font-face "DejaVu Sans Mono"
>>
>> Can you test this equivalent on Mac?
>>
>> It will be cool to know if there is consistency in the render of patches
>> across Oss with the same font.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
>>
>
>
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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Lucas Cordiviola]

You killed me, I`m not an OSX user, but:

http://www.hccp.org/command-line-os-x.html

http://osxdaily.com/2007/02/01/how-to-launch-gui-applications-from-the-terminal/

https://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/how-to-launch-os-x-apps-from-the-command-line

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1308755/launch-an-app-on-os-x-with-command-line


?
?
?
?



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From: Alexandre Torres Porres 
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 7:16 PM
To: Lucas Cordiviola
Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but 
not in Purr Data

>  but works by passing it from the command line, with quotes:
> Can you test this equivalent on Mac?

I need every baby step possible with all the details for me to test it ;)

2017-02-11 16:14 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola 
>:

>seems that using quotes to set up the font with more than one word works in 
>linux but not in Mac :/

On Windows doesn’t work from the startup flags from pd, but works by passing it 
from the command line, with quotes:

%CD%\pd\bin\pd -font-face "DejaVu Sans Mono"

Can you test this equivalent on Mac?

It will be cool to know if there is consistency in the render of patches across 
Oss with the same font.




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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

>  but works by passing it from the command line, with quotes:
> Can you test this equivalent on Mac?

I need every baby step possible with all the details for me to test it ;)

2017-02-11 16:14 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola :

> *>seems that using quotes to set up the font with more than one word works
> in linux but not in Mac :/ *
>
>
> On Windows doesn’t work from the startup flags from pd, but works by
> passing it from the command line, with quotes:
>
> %CD%\pd\bin\pd -font-face "DejaVu Sans Mono"
>
> Can you test this equivalent on Mac?
>
> It will be cool to know if there is consistency in the render of patches
> across Oss with the same font.
>
>
>
> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
>
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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Lucas Cordiviola]

>seems that using quotes to set up the font with more than one word works in 
>linux but not in Mac :/

On Windows doesn’t work from the startup flags from pd, but works by passing it 
from the command line, with quotes:

%CD%\pd\bin\pd -font-face "DejaVu Sans Mono"

Can you test this equivalent on Mac?

It will be cool to know if there is consistency in the render of patches across 
Oss with the same font.




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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

ok, made some progress, I did screw up in the flag, but now I'm using it
right, I just can't seem to get "DejaVu Sans Mono" called, it's loading
courier instead [image: Imagem inline 1]

2017-02-11 1:07 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres :

> so, installed "deja vu sans mono" in my mac... tried using the flag -font-face
> 
>
> nothing happened, just got an error that proved I may not have used the
> flag right, what should I do?
>
>
>
>
> 2017-02-10 20:42 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola :
>
>> Hi Alex,
>>
>> *>I just hoped we could make vanilla laod the same fonts in all platforms
>> and that patches would all look the same as in Purr Data, what's preventing
>> it from happening?*
>>
>>
>> To put it fast and dirty but not incorrect:
>>
>> Purr Data uses web-browser technology to do the GUI. Basically a Chrome
>> browser. That’s why you see that fonts are rendered the same across Oss.
>>
>> Check NW.js:
>> https://nwjs.io/
>>
>>
>> On the other hand, it sounds that you are saying that if a vanilla patch
>> does not look as how you see it in your Mac is “bad”.
>>
>> Vanilla is not shipping “deja vu sans mono”,
>> Can you give screen-shots with this font installed on your Mac?
>> May be your patches render the same as Linux & Windows.
>>
>> And remember the startup flags:
>>
>> -font-size  -- specify default font size in points
>> -font-face   -- specify default font
>> -font-weight -- specify default font weight (normal or bold)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

so, installed "deja vu sans mono" in my mac... tried using the flag -font-face


nothing happened, just got an error that proved I may not have used the
flag right, what should I do?




2017-02-10 20:42 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola :

> Hi Alex,
>
> *>I just hoped we could make vanilla laod the same fonts in all platforms
> and that patches would all look the same as in Purr Data, what's preventing
> it from happening?*
>
>
> To put it fast and dirty but not incorrect:
>
> Purr Data uses web-browser technology to do the GUI. Basically a Chrome
> browser. That’s why you see that fonts are rendered the same across Oss.
>
> Check NW.js:
> https://nwjs.io/
>
>
> On the other hand, it sounds that you are saying that if a vanilla patch
> does not look as how you see it in your Mac is “bad”.
>
> Vanilla is not shipping “deja vu sans mono”,
> Can you give screen-shots with this font installed on your Mac?
> May be your patches render the same as Linux & Windows.
>
> And remember the startup flags:
>
> -font-size  -- specify default font size in points
> -font-face   -- specify default font
> -font-weight -- specify default font weight (normal or bold)
>
>
>
>
>
> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

2017-02-10 20:42 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola :

> Hi Alex,
>
> *>I just hoped we could make vanilla laod the same fonts in all platforms
> and that patches would all look the same as in Purr Data, what's preventing
> it from happening?*
>
>
> To put it fast and dirty but not incorrect:
>
> Purr Data uses web-browser technology to do the GUI. Basically a Chrome
> browser. That’s why you see that fonts are rendered the same across Oss.
>


guess I wasn't very clear, I wasn't asking something like "why is purr data
different and how does it work", I'm really just saying that they "got it
right"


> Then I kept testing, did check Pd-Extended, which I think didn't have any
> similar issues
>

And like I said here, it seems that Pd Extended also did get it right in
providing the same visual consistency (I can recheck it). Now, Extended
didn't use web technology, so it's not like that is the only way to get it,
I don't think so.

But I know that I actually know nothing, so that's why I ask in clear
laymen's terms what's the deal here.

So, before anything, it's just a request and wish that this issue is
handled somehow.

cheers
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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Lucas Cordiviola]

Totally,

I got your point, that’s why  I’m asking for those screen-shoots.

As Jonathan said, Purr Data uses a CSS trick which allows browsers to load 
Fonts overriding the OS. (the fonts are not installed on the system). This is 
relatively new, before that there was a limited amount of safe web fonts.

Vanilla atm is not installing fonts on the OS afaik. And traditionally, fonts 
that are not installed on the Os are not available to the Apps.

Don’t get me wrong, we are on the same side & I`m telling a couple of things 
that I know.


--
On Windows there’s another monospace font that is shippped since Vista.

Try “Consolas”,  
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2017 11:30 PM
To: Lucas Cordiviola
Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but 
not in Purr Data

2017-02-10 20:42 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola 
>:

it sounds that you are saying that if a vanilla patch does not look as how you 
see it in your Mac is “bad”.

yes, or kinda, as I wouldn't  say it like that, I can also say that if a 
vanilla patch doesn't look as how you see it in linux or windows, it is bad... 
it is a two way street here, and my concern is that things work out of the box 
for cross platforms.

Or, like I said it myself


I just hoped we could make vanilla laod the same fonts in all platforms and 
that patches would all look the same as in Purr Data, what's preventing it from 
happening?


And by "what's preventing it from happening?" I'm basically asking: What is it 
that we should do to make it happen that we are not doing right now, and why 
are we not doing it?

cheers
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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

2017-02-10 20:42 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola :

> it sounds that you are saying that if a vanilla patch does not look as how
> you see it in your Mac is “bad”.
>

yes, or kinda, as I wouldn't  say it like that, I can also say that if a
vanilla patch doesn't look as how you see it in linux or windows, it is
bad... it is a two way street here, and my concern is that things work out
of the box for cross platforms.

Or, like I said it myself


*I just hoped we could make vanilla laod the same fonts in all platforms
> and that patches would all look the same as in Purr Data, what's preventing
> it from happening?*
>
>

And by "*what's preventing it from happening?*" I'm basically asking: What
is it that we should do to make it happen that we are not doing right now,
and why are we not doing it?

cheers
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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Lucas Cordiviola]

Hi Alex,


>I just hoped we could make vanilla laod the same fonts in all platforms and 
>that patches would all look the same as in Purr Data, what's preventing it 
>from happening?

To put it fast and dirty but not incorrect:

Purr Data uses web-browser technology to do the GUI. Basically a Chrome 
browser. That’s why you see that fonts are rendered the same across Oss.

Check NW.js:
https://nwjs.io/


On the other hand, it sounds that you are saying that if a vanilla patch does 
not look as how you see it in your Mac is “bad”.

Vanilla is not shipping “deja vu sans mono”,
Can you give screen-shots with this font installed on your Mac?
May be your patches render the same as Linux & Windows.

And remember the startup flags:

-font-size  -- specify default font size in points
-font-face   -- specify default font
-font-weight -- specify default font weight (normal or bold)






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Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data

[Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list]

> What intrigues me is that Purr Data (or Pd-l2ork) does load "Deja Vu Sans 
> Mono" for all platforms and even so the patch does not look "bad" like that, 
> as an example, 
> I'm attaching a print screen from pd-l2ork in Linux (4-l2ork.png), to show 
> that it doesn't look like the linux part of the image from 1-MACxLINUX.png


> So, I'm a little confused as why using this "deja vu" font does promote such 
> a visual difference in vanilla (as shown in linux and windows) but not in 
> Pd-l2ork or 
> Purr Data (and maybe even extended). I consider it a "bug", an important 
> issue on how patches behave in cross platforms, even if it is just a visual 
> (font display) issue.
Purr Data includes a particular version of "Deja Vu Sans Mono" with it.  It 
loads it through the @font-face CSS interface, so you get 
that font regardless of whether you've installed Purr Data or not.
-Jonathan


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