Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Don Guthrie]

I think what Cook said was "there would be something that Mac Pro users 
would like". Not trying to be argumentative but CEOs like politicians 
must be parsed sometimes. One speculation is that it would be more 
sealed and not use inter-changeble circuit boards or video boards.


And maybe we should change the heading for this discussion.

pdml-requ...@pdml.net wrote:

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 18:18:52 +1300
From: David Mann
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: Android tablets for showing photos?
Message-ID:<719b15d2-40fd-42fe-a5e4-734fb0642...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Feb 19, 2013, at 6:17 AM, Don Guthrie  wrote:


>It is banned now in Europe because of some electrical problem.

To clarify, a European electrical safety standards was updated and the Mac Pro 
does not comply with the new standard on a couple of minor points.  One is that 
they must now fit finger-guards to the INTERNAL fans.  I think the other issue 
relates to surge-resistance on a couple of the ports, eg lightning-induced 
spikes coming into a USB or Thunderbolt port from an external device shouldn't 
cause damage, up to a certain level.

Doing surge testing is like watching paint dry, until the device fails.  I used 
to work on power supply systems for cellphone towers and we tested to the 
highest level our equipment allowed.  The mountains of China, India and South 
Africa are unforgiving.

My guess is that Apple already had an update in the works and were going to 
have the new model out before the changes took effect, but the project must 
have fallen behind schedule.  IIRC Tim Cook said a new model is coming this 
year.

Cheers,
Dave



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Larry Colen]

If the box is loud for twenty minutes while processing a couple thousand 
photos, I'm not going to mind if it's relatively quiet when I'm not using it.

On Feb 18, 2013, at 9:18 PM, David Mann wrote:

> On Feb 19, 2013, at 6:17 AM, Don Guthrie  wrote:
> 
>> It is banned now in Europe because of some electrical problem.
> 
> To clarify, a European electrical safety standards was updated and the Mac 
> Pro does not comply with the new standard on a couple of minor points.  One 
> is that they must now fit finger-guards to the INTERNAL fans.  I think the 
> other issue relates to surge-resistance on a couple of the ports, eg 
> lightning-induced spikes coming into a USB or Thunderbolt port from an 
> external device shouldn't cause damage, up to a certain level.

If my external drives are getting hit by lightning while my computer is sitting 
in my office, I've got bigger problems than a blown motherboard.

--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[David Mann]

On Feb 19, 2013, at 6:17 AM, Don Guthrie  wrote:

> It is banned now in Europe because of some electrical problem.

To clarify, a European electrical safety standards was updated and the Mac Pro 
does not comply with the new standard on a couple of minor points.  One is that 
they must now fit finger-guards to the INTERNAL fans.  I think the other issue 
relates to surge-resistance on a couple of the ports, eg lightning-induced 
spikes coming into a USB or Thunderbolt port from an external device shouldn't 
cause damage, up to a certain level.

Doing surge testing is like watching paint dry, until the device fails.  I used 
to work on power supply systems for cellphone towers and we tested to the 
highest level our equipment allowed.  The mountains of China, India and South 
Africa are unforgiving.

My guess is that Apple already had an update in the works and were going to 
have the new model out before the changes took effect, but the project must 
have fallen behind schedule.  IIRC Tim Cook said a new model is coming this 
year.

Cheers,
Dave


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[David Mann]

On Feb 19, 2013, at 11:10 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:

> Since we still have a couple of PowerMac G5 and a few recent Mac Pro
> test units in the lab, I fired them up with a cooling system test app
> to see how different the noise at nominal and full blast cooling.
> These machine are about half populated with hardware and such.
> 
> My answer: not much. Very precise, I know. ;-)

If you want to hear how loud they *can* go, run the hardware test on the system 
DVD.  The first thing it does is turn all the fans up to 11 and my old 1st gen 
G5 1.6 was very loud.

Having said that it was only when I did heavy Photoshop stuff on large files 
(350Mb medium format scans) that I'd hear the fans to go any higher than idle, 
and even then it wasn't by much.  At idle it's only a quiet whirr.  I'm fussy 
enough that I would have liked it a bit quieter.  I keep the machine on the 
floor partly so the noise source isn't at head level, and also because I want 
the desk space.

I haven't actually used it for a long time but when I get around to it I'm 
going to use it to finish my old scanning project.  I installed the trial 
version of Vuescan on my Macbook Pro but I preferred the old Minolta software 
(which is PPC only).  It's all set up but requires a bit less procrastination...

Cheers,
Dave


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Larry Colen]

On Feb 18, 2013, at 9:17 AM, Don Guthrie wrote:

> My system is almost identical to Godfrey's. And I have not slowed it down 
> with any processing I have done video or stills.

I'm not quite sure what this means in reference to how fast it'll process a 
bunch of images.

> The top of the line iMac gives better performance now than the tower version.

The last I checked, a top of the line iMac was quite a bit more expensive than 
a used tower.

> And the tower is about to be updated or removed from the line depending on 
> which rumor your listen to. It is banned now in Europe because of some 
> electrical problem.

I am sure that it will be changed soon.  Fortunately, by investing in a used 
machine, it'll lose a lot less value than a new one.


> 
> Apple like it or not makes machines that serve 90% of the needs of 90% of the 
> people 90% of the time.

That is exactly why their profit margin is so high.  They do very well at the 
most common stuff.

--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Since we still have a couple of PowerMac G5 and a few recent Mac Pro
test units in the lab, I fired them up with a cooling system test app
to see how different the noise at nominal and full blast cooling.
These machine are about half populated with hardware and such.

My answer: not much. Very precise, I know. ;-)

It takes longer for the full blast cooling to kick in on the Mac Pro
so you'd run into the noise less of the time. But the difference is
not by my ears a huge one.

G


On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 1:39 PM, steve harley  wrote:
> on 2013-02-18 13:12 Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote
>
>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 11:50 AM, steve harley  wrote:
>>>
>>> when we went through this in a previous thread, there was a hypothesis
>>> that
>>> keeping it all in one case might actually have some noise, power and cost
>>> benefits versus externals; i think the Mac Pro power supply might also be
>>> more reliable than most external drive power supplies; i have a "drive
>>> farm"
>>> and small form-factor computers myself, but i am open to the idea of Mac
>>> Pro
>>> being a better choice for some people
>>
>>
>> I don't think so. When I changed from the G5 Tower with most drives
>> sited internally to the mini with external drives, the first thing I
>> noticed was how much quieter and cooler everything ran.
>
>
> after first warning Larry (in that previous thread) that the Mac Pro might
> be noisy, i did some lookups and found that power draw and noise have gone
> down successively in the Mac Pros - here's one reference:
>
> 
>
> basically, it looks like GPU cooling is the biggest noisemaker on the 2008
> model in the test, and i'd bet Lightroom wouldn't kick that off; a different
> graphics card (or fans on such) might also be an easy fix
>
> i also recall that the Mac Pro internals were much improved over the
> PowerMac G5
>
> now that i've finally replaced my 2007 MacBook Pro server (whose fans i had
> to crank to 6000 rpm to keep the video card from overheating) i'm in the
> process of replacing the fan in one of my dual drive cases to reduce the
> noise, and i realize my Drobo has a fairly noisy fan too
>
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.



-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[steve harley]

on 2013-02-18 13:12 Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote

On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 11:50 AM, steve harley  wrote:

when we went through this in a previous thread, there was a hypothesis that
keeping it all in one case might actually have some noise, power and cost
benefits versus externals; i think the Mac Pro power supply might also be
more reliable than most external drive power supplies; i have a "drive farm"
and small form-factor computers myself, but i am open to the idea of Mac Pro
being a better choice for some people


I don't think so. When I changed from the G5 Tower with most drives
sited internally to the mini with external drives, the first thing I
noticed was how much quieter and cooler everything ran.


after first warning Larry (in that previous thread) that the Mac Pro might be 
noisy, i did some lookups and found that power draw and noise have gone down 
successively in the Mac Pros - here's one reference:




basically, it looks like GPU cooling is the biggest noisemaker on the 2008 
model in the test, and i'd bet Lightroom wouldn't kick that off; a different 
graphics card (or fans on such) might also be an easy fix


i also recall that the Mac Pro internals were much improved over the PowerMac G5

now that i've finally replaced my 2007 MacBook Pro server (whose fans i had to 
crank to 6000 rpm to keep the video card from overheating) i'm in the process 
of replacing the fan in one of my dual drive cases to reduce the noise, and i 
realize my Drobo has a fairly noisy fan too



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Larry Colen]

Godfrey, you're the only one I've ever met who treats someone saying that they 
have different needs than you as a personal insult.

On Feb 17, 2013, at 9:34 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

> On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
>> What I do want is the ability to put multiple drives in the case.  If I were 
>> to get a mac mini, then I'd need to buy another box for external drive 
>> storage.  I'm not terribly space limited, and if I can get 8 cores of 
>> performance for about the same price as 4, that would be a bonus.
> 
> So you'd rather a box 10-15 times the size so you can fit the drives
> inside? Six external drives and the mini take up less than a third the
> space of my PowerMac G5 (same form factor as the Mac Pro). What's the
> value in that? And I can plug the six external drives into any system
> I need to in a second ... it's just one connection.

I have plenty of space on my desk. What I don't have is space in my bank 
account.  

A while back, I was looking around at external storage solutions, what I found 
was that a box to put a bunch of drives in, that would do what I needed started 
at about $600, before adding the drives.  This means that a $1300 mac mini, 
with the space for external drives, is closer to $2,000, when I could buy a Mac 
Pro, with twice the computational performance, and the space for drives in it, 
for about $1,300.

Yes, there are other costs involved, but when I'm done I'll have a computer 
that does better at processing a lot of files, something that is important to 
me.

> 
>> You and I tend to photograph very different things.  I do a lot of 
>> photography of events of the sort that in order to get the good shots of a 
>> wide variety of people there, I need to shoot a lot of frames.  You may not, 
>> but that is what works for me.  I tend to get home from these events late in 
>> the wee hours, and want a fast turnaround  ...
> 
> Blah blah blah ... irrelevant.

I'm sorry Godfrey, what I do and need may be irrelevant to you, but it is 
critically relevant to me.

> When I was in the business, shooting
> events and editorial work, I'd come home from a shoot with 2000-3000
> exposures, sometimes "in the wee hours", and process them down to a
> deliverable proof set of several hundred before I went to bed too. ...
> 
> Gosh, I didn't know your photo business was so demanding.

That's the crux of the matter, it isn't a photo business.  It is a photo hobby. 
 You may be a good enough photographer to earn enough to be able to afford 
multiple leicas, and the latest and greatest items from Cupertino, but I'm not. 
 Photography is a hobby, one I enjoy tremendously, but still it is just one of 
many things that I do for fun.  When I take photos at an event, I'm almost 
always doing it as a way to give back to the community. As much as I appreciate 
the thanks that I get from people, I still have a job to go to, repairs to do 
on my house, sleeping to do, and occasionally more enjoyable ways to spend my 
time than waiting for a computer to process.  So, while it may not be relevant 
to you how long it takes my computer to process photos so that I can select the 
ones worth keeping, it is vitally relevant to me.

I value your expertise, and do appreciate your willingness to share it.  
However, when I say to me that total system cost, and processing power are 
important to me, the size of the system and a little bit of noise much less so, 
you're telling me that I'm wrong, because your system works well for you, is 
not very helpful.

If you can show me how to build a mac mini system with 8-12 TB of disk, and 
that will process 200 to 2000 files faster than a used mac pro, and cost me 
less money, then I'm very interested.  Alternatively, if you can tell me what I 
need to look for in building up a mac pro system, to do what I want, which 
models are worth getting or avoiding, how much memory I need per processor, how 
big of a SSD system disk it is worth investing in (or hybrid) to boost system 
performance, that would also be tremendously helpful.  

--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 11:50 AM, steve harley  wrote:
> when we went through this in a previous thread, there was a hypothesis that
> keeping it all in one case might actually have some noise, power and cost
> benefits versus externals; i think the Mac Pro power supply might also be
> more reliable than most external drive power supplies; i have a "drive farm"
> and small form-factor computers myself, but i am open to the idea of Mac Pro
> being a better choice for some people

I don't think so. When I changed from the G5 Tower with most drives
sited internally to the mini with external drives, the first thing I
noticed was how much quieter and cooler everything ran. Never did the
detail analysis of power consumption, it would be difficult to pull
the computer consumption out from all the other systems and devices
running in my home on a near continuous basis.

In my brother's working environment, noise is a serious problem.
That's the biggest downside to the Mac Pro for him: when it gets busy,
the huge cooling system throughput requires a massive sound box, with
its own noise managed airflow system, to keep the noise from being a
problem. I can hear the mini's fan running at peak only once in a
while, with no sound shielding at all. It could be sound shielded into
a tiny box at minimal cost in space and such.

The design model of one big power supply to power all the peripherals
is the usual "single point of failure for all devices" game too: if
all your peripherals are inside the Mac Pro, and its power supply
spikes, you stand to lose them all. With my external peripheral system
design, I can have drives selectively powered as needed, and any one
of the individual devices going belly up is unlikely to have any
permanent effect on any other device. Even with all six drives
running, several are on average in power saving "parked" mode so the
total noise involved is much much lower, overall, in my office
environment.

-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[steve harley]

on 2013-02-17 22:34 Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote

On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:

What I do want is the ability to put multiple drives in the case.  If I were to 
get a mac mini, then I'd need to buy another box for external drive storage.  
I'm not terribly space limited, and if I can get 8 cores of performance for 
about the same price as 4, that would be a bonus.


So you'd rather a box 10-15 times the size so you can fit the drives
inside? Six external drives and the mini take up less than a third the
space of my PowerMac G5 (same form factor as the Mac Pro). What's the
value in that?


when we went through this in a previous thread, there was a hypothesis that 
keeping it all in one case might actually have some noise, power and cost 
benefits versus externals; i think the Mac Pro power supply might also be more 
reliable than most external drive power supplies; i have a "drive farm" and 
small form-factor computers myself, but i am open to the idea of Mac Pro being 
a better choice for some people






--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Tim Bray]

On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 12:12 AM, David Mann  wrote:
> I don't know if this is feasible, but could you set it up so your initial 
> processing happens using an SSD, then you move the files off to big 
> spinning-rust disks afterwards?  That way you'd get a shedload of speed when 
> you need it most, but you don't have to mortgage the house to buy your SSDs 
> in the terabytes.

This is exactly what I do.  My archival system is based on /MM
folders, and they all live on big ordinary redundant spinning-rust
disks.  But the current months and a couple previous live in
/Pictures/Current which is an SSD, that’s where I
import everything and that’s where 90%+ of the photo-editing happens.

Works great.  -T

>
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re:Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Don Guthrie]

 My system is almost identical to Godfrey's. And I have not slowed it 
down with any processing I have done video or stills.
 The top of the line iMac gives better performance now than the tower 
version. And the tower is about to be updated or removed from the line 
depending on which rumor your listen to. It is banned now in Europe 
because of some electrical problem.


Apple like it or not makes machines that serve 90% of the needs of 90% 
of the people 90% of the time.




pdml-requ...@pdml.net wrote:

Message: 4
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2013 14:38:19 -0800
From: Godfrey DiGiorgi
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: Android tablets for showing photos?
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:

>Which is why, now that I've gotten a paycheck, I'm starting to look for a good 
deal on a used 8-core mac pro for my photo processing machine.
>
>I've seen a few of them on craigslist for $1,000 -$1,400.  I expect I'll need 
to add drives, memory, a second display card, a USB 3 card, and might need a 
second ethernet card.

I dunno, Larry. I do my photography with a Mac mini quad-core 2.6GHz,
16G RAM, 1T internal drive, and lots of external storage (12 Terabytes
at present) connected over FireWire 800 bus. My medium format film
scans run into several hundred Mbytes apiece in DNG format, the little
mini is quite responsive. 18-24 Mpixel raw files ... no sweat at all.
Would cost $1300 or so at retail, new with a three year extended
warranty. Takes up 1/10 the space (or less) on my desk and is utterly
quiet in operation, uses far less power.

You can flip the 1T internal for a 250G or larger SSD?from OWC for
more performance.

What do you really need a Mac Pro 8-core for? My brother uses one of
those but he does real-time work (video/audio editing - it's his
business:http://www.headlinestudios.net/Headline_Studios.html) which
is orders of magnitude more demanding than still photography work.

-- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[John Sessoms]

From: Godfrey DiGiorgi


That's it, Steve. Protect the universe from what you think isn't to
your taste. You know so much more than anyone.

G



That seems a bit of the pot calling the kettle black.

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[David Mann]

On Feb 18, 2013, at 2:18 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:

> So if two cores takes me 20 minutes to pre-process, four takes 12, and eight 
> takes 8, and it doesn't cost me much more money for the extra speed, I'll 
> give up a little space on the top of my desk.

Don't forget to factor I/O speed in; when you hit the limits of file transfer 
speed then it won't matter how many cores you have.

I don't know if this is feasible, but could you set it up so your initial 
processing happens using an SSD, then you move the files off to big 
spinning-rust disks afterwards?  That way you'd get a shedload of speed when 
you need it most, but you don't have to mortgage the house to buy your SSDs in 
the terabytes.

Cheers,
Dave


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> What I do want is the ability to put multiple drives in the case.  If I were 
> to get a mac mini, then I'd need to buy another box for external drive 
> storage.  I'm not terribly space limited, and if I can get 8 cores of 
> performance for about the same price as 4, that would be a bonus.

So you'd rather a box 10-15 times the size so you can fit the drives
inside? Six external drives and the mini take up less than a third the
space of my PowerMac G5 (same form factor as the Mac Pro). What's the
value in that? And I can plug the six external drives into any system
I need to in a second ... it's just one connection.

> You and I tend to photograph very different things.  I do a lot of 
> photography of events of the sort that in order to get the good shots of a 
> wide variety of people there, I need to shoot a lot of frames.  You may not, 
> but that is what works for me.  I tend to get home from these events late in 
> the wee hours, and want a fast turnaround  ...

Blah blah blah ... irrelevant. When I was in the business, shooting
events and editorial work, I'd come home from a shoot with 2000-3000
exposures, sometimes "in the wee hours", and process them down to a
deliverable proof set of several hundred before I went to bed too. ...

Gosh, I didn't know your photo business was so demanding.

-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

It doesn't work for ProTools at this time, at least not given the
version of the software my brother is working with. if you offer him
the $40,000 or so to upgrade all his systems and software to the
latest stuff that will work with less expensive hardware, I'm sure
he'd appreciate your investment into his business.

G

On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 5:43 PM, steve harley  wrote:
> on 2013-02-17 17:16 Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote
>
>> On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Steve Cottrell 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 17/2/13, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed:
>>>
 What do you really need a Mac Pro 8-core for? My brother uses one of
 those but he does real-time work (video/audio editing - it's his
 business: http://www.headlinestudios.net/Headline_Studios.html) which
 is orders of magnitude more demanding than still photography work.
>>>
>>>
>>> You say that but I know at least one editor who uses a Mac mini -
>>> admittedly it's out on the road in a satellite van but he swears by it!
>>
>>
>> Oh, I believe the Mac mini is powerful enough to do the editing job.
>> But the ProTools software that Joe uses has dedicated cards that talk
>> to fast external drives, it requires the slots in the Mac Pro. The
>> next rev of the software will likely remove that constraint and use
>> the Thunderbolt interface to faster storage hardware.
>
>
> used Mac Pros are generally the price/performance leader when a bit of
> expansion is contemplated and/or when the GPU is important (Lightroom 4
> doesn't use a Mac GPU, though, afaik); otherwise a Mini can do a lot for the
> money
>
> they may not work for ProTools, but there are external PCI chassis that
> connect via Thunderbolt, and i wouldn't be surprised to see OWC put its
> PCI-based storage system (faster than SATA) into a Thunderbolt box soon;
> these will bring a lot more top-end expansion potential to Minis and iMacs
>
> all the Thunderbolt stuff is expensive, though, compared to slapping drives
> and cards into free slots in a Mac Pro; also, i think Thunderbolt maxes out
> at just over half the potential throughput of PCI
>
> so the best choice is "it depends"; if performance is a major concern, there
> are resources to help weigh the factors, e.g.:
>
> 
> 
>
> i had to replace an old laptop acting as a server this month, and size,
> power consumption and noise were important to me, so i got a used 2011 Mac
> Mini (2.5GHz i5, discrete graphics); it has 9 months warranty remaining and
> cost me $430; aside from some of the 2011 models, all the other Minis have
> "integrated graphics", which perform poorly on GPU tasks (see above links)
>
> this server replaces a dying 2007 MacBook Pro, and runs iTunes, FileMaker
> Server, ScanSnap and backups; though the Mini it is still slower than my
> 2011 MacBook Pro (better GPU & 1GB VRAM), the GPU on the mini should make a
> big difference if i offload some Aperture work to it, or if my laptop has
> some downtime
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.



-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

That's it, Steve. Protect the universe from what you think isn't to your taste.
You know so much more than anyone.

G

On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 5:52 PM, steve harley  wrote:
> on 2013-02-17 8:45 Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote
>
>> On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 11:07 PM, steve harley  wrote:
>>>
>>> on 2013-02-14 16:47 Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote

 This is because iOS does not support external file systems, which
 cannot be sandboxed. A sandboxed file system promotes security and
 minimizes virus attacks, particularly important in mobile devices.
>>>
>>>
>>> iOS does support external file systems, just in specific limited ways;
>>> one
>>> can copy certain types of files from an SD card _to_ an iOS device (which
>>> is
>>> the direction with security implications), but not _from_ the iOS device
>>> back to an SD card (or other storage)
>>
>>
>> Technically true, I'll give you that, but I meant/intended
>> "generalized external file system support by the user." Sorry if I
>> didn't type the whole thought out, I thought it was obvious.
>
>
> it's not about what i can assume you know, it's about what others might take
> from what you write; i felt like the allusion to security implications of
> writing *to* an external filesystem was hand-waving and deserved a response
>
>
>> If you notice, the external file system support you illustrate is only
>> read support,and only applies to external file system structures in
>
>> the DCIM protocol model.
>
> since it can delete the files that are imported, it's not read-only;
> internally, iOS has access to all the filesystem support it needs from it's
> OS X ancestry (not that Apple has necessarily ported it all) but whatever is
> there has been abstracted to almost nothing by the time it gets to the user
> level
>
>
>
>> To provide generalized user-level read/write
>> support of an external file system would require directory system
>> navigation, file and folder creation, file open, file write, and file
>> close.
>
>
> generalized support would be gravy; the mashed potatoes would be just the
> simple ability to push a set of image files back to an SD card; it would be
> a huge win for a minimal field photography setup, and i'm not alone in
> understanding the benefits:
>
> 
>
>
>
>> Apps read and write via wireless access only to their sandboxed local
>> file systems.
>
>
> for write support to SD cards, apps would only need to write from their
> sandboxed store
>
>
>
>> It's much easier to manage authentication and security
>> via high-level wireless file exchange protocols.
>
>
> again, i can't fathom how this matters for writing *to* SD cards
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.



-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Tim Bray]

Yeah, I have a 2008-vintage mac pro that really excels as a “home
mainframe”.  It’s plenty fast enough and infinitely flexible: in its
lifetime, I’ve upgraded the memory and the disk drives and last year
put in some monster NVidia card to play Skyrim with.  Unglamorous, but
what a workhorse. -T

On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
>
> On Feb 17, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
>>
>> What do you really need a Mac Pro 8-core for? My brother uses one of
>> those but he does real-time work (video/audio editing - it's his
>> business: http://www.headlinestudios.net/Headline_Studios.html) which
>> is orders of magnitude more demanding than still photography work.
>
> I don't need the 8-cores, but it doesn't seem that the 8-core mac pros are 
> that much more expensive on craigslist than the 4-core.
>
> What I do want is the ability to put multiple drives in the case.  If I were 
> to get a mac mini, then I'd need to buy another box for external drive 
> storage.  I'm not terribly space limited, and if I can get 8 cores of 
> performance for about the same price as 4, that would be a bonus.
>
> You and I tend to photograph very different things.  I do a lot of 
> photography of events of the sort that in order to get the good shots of a 
> wide variety of people there, I need to shoot a lot of frames.  You may not, 
> but that is what works for me.  I tend to get home from these events late in 
> the wee hours, and want a fast turnaround on the photos for the people at the 
> events.  In order to scan through hundreds of photos quickly, I need to 
> pre-process them first.  The faster that happens, the better.
>
> So if two cores takes me 20 minutes to pre-process, four takes 12, and eight 
> takes 8, and it doesn't cost me much more money for the extra speed, I'll 
> give up a little space on the top of my desk.
>
> I expect that my next new computer will be some sort of macbook, because mine 
> is getting a bit long in the tooth, much worse than my iMac.  However, the 
> longer I can put off that purchase, the more power I get for my money.
>
> --
> Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[steve harley]

on 2013-02-17 8:45 Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote

On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 11:07 PM, steve harley  wrote:

on 2013-02-14 16:47 Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote

This is because iOS does not support external file systems, which
cannot be sandboxed. A sandboxed file system promotes security and
minimizes virus attacks, particularly important in mobile devices.


iOS does support external file systems, just in specific limited ways; one
can copy certain types of files from an SD card _to_ an iOS device (which is
the direction with security implications), but not _from_ the iOS device
back to an SD card (or other storage)


Technically true, I'll give you that, but I meant/intended
"generalized external file system support by the user." Sorry if I
didn't type the whole thought out, I thought it was obvious.


it's not about what i can assume you know, it's about what others might take 
from what you write; i felt like the allusion to security implications of 
writing *to* an external filesystem was hand-waving and deserved a response




If you notice, the external file system support you illustrate is only
read support,and only applies to external file system structures in

> the DCIM protocol model.

since it can delete the files that are imported, it's not read-only; 
internally, iOS has access to all the filesystem support it needs from it's OS 
X ancestry (not that Apple has necessarily ported it all) but whatever is there 
has been abstracted to almost nothing by the time it gets to the user level




To provide generalized user-level read/write
support of an external file system would require directory system
navigation, file and folder creation, file open, file write, and file
close.


generalized support would be gravy; the mashed potatoes would be just the 
simple ability to push a set of image files back to an SD card; it would be a 
huge win for a minimal field photography setup, and i'm not alone in 
understanding the benefits:






Apps read and write via wireless access only to their sandboxed local
file systems.


for write support to SD cards, apps would only need to write from their 
sandboxed store




It's much easier to manage authentication and security
via high-level wireless file exchange protocols.


again, i can't fathom how this matters for writing *to* SD cards





--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[steve harley]

on 2013-02-17 17:16 Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote

On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Steve Cottrell  wrote:

On 17/2/13, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed:


What do you really need a Mac Pro 8-core for? My brother uses one of
those but he does real-time work (video/audio editing - it's his
business: http://www.headlinestudios.net/Headline_Studios.html) which
is orders of magnitude more demanding than still photography work.


You say that but I know at least one editor who uses a Mac mini -
admittedly it's out on the road in a satellite van but he swears by it!


Oh, I believe the Mac mini is powerful enough to do the editing job.
But the ProTools software that Joe uses has dedicated cards that talk
to fast external drives, it requires the slots in the Mac Pro. The
next rev of the software will likely remove that constraint and use
the Thunderbolt interface to faster storage hardware.


used Mac Pros are generally the price/performance leader when a bit of 
expansion is contemplated and/or when the GPU is important (Lightroom 4 doesn't 
use a Mac GPU, though, afaik); otherwise a Mini can do a lot for the money


they may not work for ProTools, but there are external PCI chassis that connect 
via Thunderbolt, and i wouldn't be surprised to see OWC put its PCI-based 
storage system (faster than SATA) into a Thunderbolt box soon; these will bring 
a lot more top-end expansion potential to Minis and iMacs


all the Thunderbolt stuff is expensive, though, compared to slapping drives and 
cards into free slots in a Mac Pro; also, i think Thunderbolt maxes out at just 
over half the potential throughput of PCI


so the best choice is "it depends"; if performance is a major concern, there 
are resources to help weigh the factors, e.g.:





i had to replace an old laptop acting as a server this month, and size, power 
consumption and noise were important to me, so i got a used 2011 Mac Mini 
(2.5GHz i5, discrete graphics); it has 9 months warranty remaining and cost me 
$430; aside from some of the 2011 models, all the other Minis have "integrated 
graphics", which perform poorly on GPU tasks (see above links)


this server replaces a dying 2007 MacBook Pro, and runs iTunes, FileMaker 
Server, ScanSnap and backups; though the Mini it is still slower than my 2011 
MacBook Pro (better GPU & 1GB VRAM), the GPU on the mini should make a big 
difference if i offload some Aperture work to it, or if my laptop has some downtime





--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[John Sessoms]

From: Mark Roberts


Aahz Maruch wrote:

On Sun, Feb 17, 2013, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:


I love your always-conspiracy-theory view of Apple products, Larry.
You just don't get Apple, like I don't get your humor. eh?


It's not paranoia when they really are out to get you.


It's also not a conspiracy ? by definition ? when only a single person
or agency is involved.


"They" is always plural.

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Larry Colen]

On Feb 17, 2013, at 2:38 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
> 
> What do you really need a Mac Pro 8-core for? My brother uses one of
> those but he does real-time work (video/audio editing - it's his
> business: http://www.headlinestudios.net/Headline_Studios.html) which
> is orders of magnitude more demanding than still photography work.

I don't need the 8-cores, but it doesn't seem that the 8-core mac pros are that 
much more expensive on craigslist than the 4-core.

What I do want is the ability to put multiple drives in the case.  If I were to 
get a mac mini, then I'd need to buy another box for external drive storage.  
I'm not terribly space limited, and if I can get 8 cores of performance for 
about the same price as 4, that would be a bonus.

You and I tend to photograph very different things.  I do a lot of photography 
of events of the sort that in order to get the good shots of a wide variety of 
people there, I need to shoot a lot of frames.  You may not, but that is what 
works for me.  I tend to get home from these events late in the wee hours, and 
want a fast turnaround on the photos for the people at the events.  In order to 
scan through hundreds of photos quickly, I need to pre-process them first.  The 
faster that happens, the better.

So if two cores takes me 20 minutes to pre-process, four takes 12, and eight 
takes 8, and it doesn't cost me much more money for the extra speed, I'll give 
up a little space on the top of my desk.

I expect that my next new computer will be some sort of macbook, because mine 
is getting a bit long in the tooth, much worse than my iMac.  However, the 
longer I can put off that purchase, the more power I get for my money.

--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[steve harley]

on 2013-02-17 11:28 Larry Colen wrote

I've seen a few of them on craigslist for $1,000 -$1,400.  I expect I'll need 
to add drives, memory, a second display card, a USB 3 card, and might need a 
second ethernet card.


i believe all the 8-core Mac Pros have dual gigabit Ethernet ports and dual 
display support stock



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Steve Cottrell  wrote:
> On 17/2/13, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
>>What do you really need a Mac Pro 8-core for? My brother uses one of
>>those but he does real-time work (video/audio editing - it's his
>>business: http://www.headlinestudios.net/Headline_Studios.html) which
>>is orders of magnitude more demanding than still photography work.
>
> You say that but I know at least one editor who uses a Mac mini -
> admittedly it's out on the road in a satellite van but he swears by it!

Oh, I believe the Mac mini is powerful enough to do the editing job.
But the ProTools software that Joe uses has dedicated cards that talk
to fast external drives, it requires the slots in the Mac Pro. The
next rev of the software will likely remove that constraint and use
the Thunderbolt interface to faster storage hardware.

-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Steve Cottrell]

On 17/2/13, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed:

>What do you really need a Mac Pro 8-core for? My brother uses one of
>those but he does real-time work (video/audio editing - it's his
>business: http://www.headlinestudios.net/Headline_Studios.html) which
>is orders of magnitude more demanding than still photography work.

You say that but I know at least one editor who uses a Mac mini -
admittedly it's out on the road in a satellite van but he swears by it!

-- 


Cheers,
  Cotty


___/\__Broadcast, Corporate,
||  (O)  |Web Video Producion
--
_



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Hmm. I'd not done any performance testing on the mini and this last
exchange made me curious. When I get curious ...

I opened Lightroom 4.3, selected 100 18 Mpixel M9 raw files, and
started one export process to output them as full resolution, zip
compressed, 8bit TIFF files. Half a minute later, I started a second
export process to output the same set as full resolution, 85% quality
JPEGs.

The JPEG output caught up with and finished about 20 seconds before
the TIFFs, indicating that size of the output file  is likely the
gating factor between the two formats in terms of throughput speed.
Both exports were finished in a few seconds under 8 minutes, or about
4.8 seconds per JPEG and TIFF export file. The TIFFs totaled 2G
exported data, the JPEGs 560M.

For my needs, that's fast enough. :-)

G

On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 2:38 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:
>> Which is why, now that I've gotten a paycheck, I'm starting to look for a 
>> good deal on a used 8-core mac pro for my photo processing machine.
>>
>> I've seen a few of them on craigslist for $1,000 -$1,400.  I expect I'll 
>> need to add drives, memory, a second display card, a USB 3 card, and might 
>> need a second ethernet card.
>
> I dunno, Larry. I do my photography with a Mac mini quad-core 2.6GHz,
> 16G RAM, 1T internal drive, and lots of external storage (12 Terabytes
> at present) connected over FireWire 800 bus. My medium format film
> scans run into several hundred Mbytes apiece in DNG format, the little
> mini is quite responsive. 18-24 Mpixel raw files ... no sweat at all.
> Would cost $1300 or so at retail, new with a three year extended
> warranty. Takes up 1/10 the space (or less) on my desk and is utterly
> quiet in operation, uses far less power.
>
> You can flip the 1T internal for a 250G or larger SSD from OWC for
> more performance.
>
> What do you really need a Mac Pro 8-core for? My brother uses one of
> those but he does real-time work (video/audio editing - it's his
> business: http://www.headlinestudios.net/Headline_Studios.html) which
> is orders of magnitude more demanding than still photography work.
>
> --
> Godfrey
>   godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com



-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[kwaller]

Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: "Aahz Maruch" 

Subject: Re: Android tablets for showing photos?



On Sun, Feb 17, 2013, steve harley wrote:

on 2013-02-17 8:29 David Savage wrote


Blah, blah, blah...*IT junkies nerding out*


what's IT?


Who's on first?


No, No No, its tag your IT


--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 
http://rule6.info/

 <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Aahz Maruch]

On Sun, Feb 17, 2013, steve harley wrote:
> on 2013-02-17 8:29 David Savage wrote
>>
>>Blah, blah, blah...*IT junkies nerding out*
> 
> what's IT?

Who's on first?
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[steve harley]

on 2013-02-17 8:29 David Savage wrote

Blah, blah, blah...*IT junkies nerding out*


what's IT?


--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Larry Colen]

On Feb 17, 2013, at 7:47 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

> I love your always-conspiracy-theory view of Apple products, Larry.
> You just don't get Apple, like I don't get your humor. eh?

Exactly.

Which is why, now that I've gotten a paycheck, I'm starting to look for a good 
deal on a used 8-core mac pro for my photo processing machine. 

I've seen a few of them on craigslist for $1,000 -$1,400.  I expect I'll need 
to add drives, memory, a second display card, a USB 3 card, and might need a 
second ethernet card.

--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Mark Roberts]

Aahz Maruch wrote:

>On Sun, Feb 17, 2013, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
>>
>> I love your always-conspiracy-theory view of Apple products, Larry.
>> You just don't get Apple, like I don't get your humor. eh?
>
>It's not paranoia when they really are out to get you.

It's also not a conspiracy – by definition – when only a single person
or agency is involved.
 
-- 
Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia
www.robertstech.com





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Aahz Maruch]

On Sun, Feb 17, 2013, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
>
> I love your always-conspiracy-theory view of Apple products, Larry.
> You just don't get Apple, like I don't get your humor. eh?

It's not paranoia when they really are out to get you.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

I love your always-conspiracy-theory view of Apple products, Larry.
You just don't get Apple, like I don't get your humor. eh?

G

On Sun, Feb 17, 2013 at 12:40 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:
>
> On Feb 16, 2013, at 11:07 PM, steve harley wrote:
>
>> on 2013-02-14 16:47 Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote
>>> This is because iOS does not support external file systems, which
>>> cannot be sandboxed. A sandboxed file system promotes security and
>>> minimizes virus attacks, particularly important in mobile devices.
>>
>> iOS does support external file systems, just in specific limited ways; one 
>> can copy certain types of files from an SD card _to_ an iOS device (which is 
>> the direction with security implications), but not _from_ the iOS device 
>> back to an SD card (or other storage)
>>
>> i can't fathom any security explanation for this restriction
>
> The security of the cash flow to the iTunes store.
>
> If you could copy songs off of your iOS device, you could share them with 
> friends more easily, and they wouldn't have to give money to Apple to buy the 
> songs themselves.
>
> --
> Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.



-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 11:07 PM, steve harley  wrote:
> on 2013-02-14 16:47 Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote
>> This is because iOS does not support external file systems, which
>> cannot be sandboxed. A sandboxed file system promotes security and
>> minimizes virus attacks, particularly important in mobile devices.
>
> iOS does support external file systems, just in specific limited ways; one
> can copy certain types of files from an SD card _to_ an iOS device (which is
> the direction with security implications), but not _from_ the iOS device
> back to an SD card (or other storage)

Technically true, I'll give you that, but I meant/intended
"generalized external file system support by the user." Sorry if I
didn't type the whole thought out, I thought it was obvious.

If you notice, the external file system support you illustrate is only
read support, and only applies to external file system structures in
the DCIM protocol model. To provide generalized user-level read/write
support of an external file system would require directory system
navigation, file and folder creation, file open, file write, and file
close. This is not supported by any software that Apple supplies, at
the user level. It can be achieved (with some effort) at the
programming level.

> at the same time, many iOS apps support bidirectional file transfer over
> several network protocols and without the limits on file types that might
> seem important for security reasons; this is a such a wide-open vector for
> problem files to reach the device that it moots the idea that the SD card
> restrictions are for security

Apps read and write via wireless access only to their sandboxed local
file systems. It's much easier to manage authentication and security
via high-level wireless file exchange protocols. Access to an app's
local file system within the iOS device has to be authenticated with
permissions and signature certificates for exchange; this also
promotes high security. Any intrusions into a local file system are
restricted to that file system, they cannot act upon the OS or other
application files.

-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[David Savage]

Blah, blah, blah...*IT junkies nerding out*

:-D


On 17 February 2013 17:04, steve harley  wrote:
> on 2013-02-17 1:40 Larry Colen wrote
>
>>
>> On Feb 16, 2013, at 11:07 PM, steve harley wrote:
>>
>>> on 2013-02-14 16:47 Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote

 This is because iOS does not support external file systems, which
 cannot be sandboxed. A sandboxed file system promotes security and
 minimizes virus attacks, particularly important in mobile devices.
>>>
>>>
>>> iOS does support external file systems, just in specific limited ways;
>>> one can copy certain types of files from an SD card _to_ an iOS device
>>> (which is the direction with security implications), but not _from_ the iOS
>>> device back to an SD card (or other storage)
>>>
>>> i can't fathom any security explanation for this restriction
>>
>>
>> The security of the cash flow to the iTunes store.
>>
>> If you could copy songs off of your iOS device, you could share them with
>> friends more easily, and they wouldn't have to give money to Apple to buy
>> the songs themselves.
>
>
> good thought, that could be a factor in the lack of a generally open file
> system; but within the narrower scope of what you can copy to the iOS device
> (only image files, and only to the sandboxed file store for specific apps),
> there'd be no such threat from being able to copy the same files in the
> opposite direction
>
> more likely it's a desire to manage the user experience, though it means
> forcing users to copy via iTunes, which is far from the best of Apple's UX
> work
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[steve harley]

on 2013-02-17 1:40 Larry Colen wrote


On Feb 16, 2013, at 11:07 PM, steve harley wrote:


on 2013-02-14 16:47 Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote

This is because iOS does not support external file systems, which
cannot be sandboxed. A sandboxed file system promotes security and
minimizes virus attacks, particularly important in mobile devices.


iOS does support external file systems, just in specific limited ways; one can 
copy certain types of files from an SD card _to_ an iOS device (which is the 
direction with security implications), but not _from_ the iOS device back to an 
SD card (or other storage)

i can't fathom any security explanation for this restriction


The security of the cash flow to the iTunes store.

If you could copy songs off of your iOS device, you could share them with 
friends more easily, and they wouldn't have to give money to Apple to buy the 
songs themselves.


good thought, that could be a factor in the lack of a generally open file 
system; but within the narrower scope of what you can copy to the iOS device 
(only image files, and only to the sandboxed file store for specific apps), 
there'd be no such threat from being able to copy the same files in the 
opposite direction


more likely it's a desire to manage the user experience, though it means 
forcing users to copy via iTunes, which is far from the best of Apple's UX work





--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Larry Colen]

On Feb 16, 2013, at 11:07 PM, steve harley wrote:

> on 2013-02-14 16:47 Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote
>> This is because iOS does not support external file systems, which
>> cannot be sandboxed. A sandboxed file system promotes security and
>> minimizes virus attacks, particularly important in mobile devices.
> 
> iOS does support external file systems, just in specific limited ways; one 
> can copy certain types of files from an SD card _to_ an iOS device (which is 
> the direction with security implications), but not _from_ the iOS device back 
> to an SD card (or other storage)
> 
> i can't fathom any security explanation for this restriction

The security of the cash flow to the iTunes store.

If you could copy songs off of your iOS device, you could share them with 
friends more easily, and they wouldn't have to give money to Apple to buy the 
songs themselves.

--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[steve harley]

on 2013-02-14 16:47 Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote

This is because iOS does not support external file systems, which
cannot be sandboxed. A sandboxed file system promotes security and
minimizes virus attacks, particularly important in mobile devices.


iOS does support external file systems, just in specific limited ways; one can 
copy certain types of files from an SD card _to_ an iOS device (which is the 
direction with security implications), but not _from_ the iOS device back to an 
SD card (or other storage)


i can't fathom any security explanation for this restriction

at the same time, many iOS apps support bidirectional file transfer over 
several network protocols and without the limits on file types that might seem 
important for security reasons; this is a such a wide-open vector for problem 
files to reach the device that it moots the idea that the SD card restrictions 
are for security




I don't use the iPad as a field storage device which needs backup.


i'm not interested in backing up the iPad, per se, but in using it as a tool 
for processing and moving image files; this is an natural function it could 
perform, reducing need for additional equipment and making it a better 
all-around photographers tool


and rather than simply duplicate photos, one could tag & edit down a set of 
photos before replicating them




Jailbreaking not only invalidates the warranty, it also opens your iOS
device to a host of attacks and problems.


i am not planning to jailbreak, it only comes to mind as a solution to this gap 
in iOS functionality




The simplest way to move image files stored on an iPad to a computer  [...]


for the uses i'm suggesting, if i were carrying a computer i wouldn't need to 
copy images to the iPad in the first place




--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Tim Bray]

For Android tablets in general, it’s really hard to beat the N7, the
basic model at $199 is a whole lotta tablet for the money.  The 7"
form factor is a huge win for, well, maybe everything but picture
display; it’s a great screen but 10" is going to make more of your
pictures.  Rumor has it that the N-7 follow-on will have higher pixel
density, but it’s not 100% obvious that that’s really a big win for
photodisplay uses.

BTW, I don’t work in the Android group any more. -T

On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 4:26 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> When I had time, but no money, my plan had been to root a nook color for
> displaying photos.  Out of the box, the UI on the nook sucks soggy lint.
> However, in reasonable light the display isn't bad.
>
> Compared to my S3, the display on the nook isn't so great either, just a
> bit bigger.
>
> However, now that I'm working, I'm slightly less poor financially, but
> completely destitute temporally.
>
> I'd like an android tablet that is good for displaying photos. Big enough
> that photos are reasonably easy to see.  I also want to be able to point
> to photos in one directory, and be hand the tablet to someone without
> having to worry overmuch that they might accidentally see photos in
> another directory tree.  The last is, I am sure, much more of a software
> than a hardware question.
>
> What tablets would fit the bill, and how much do they cost?
>
> I'm not completely dead set against iPads, but my experiences on iOS
> devices have not been good so far.
>
> --
> l...@red4est.com via squirrelmail
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Android tablets for showing photos?

[Bipin Gupta]

Joseph, I bought a 5-in-1 Card Reader for my iPad III for $ 2.50
shipped from China thru Amazon. Very well built. Apples original is
some $ 39.
It is a great piece of hardware - use as a USB Host or as a Card
Reader for downloading say photos directly from my K-5 with the
supplied USB cable.
Regards.
Bipin - from that far away enchanting land

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Steve Cottrell]

This article in The Guardian may be of interest to those reading this thread.




-- 


Cheers,
  Cotty


___/\__Broadcast, Corporate,
||  (O)  |Web Video Producion
--
_



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Igor Roshchin]

Thu Feb 14 14:40:12 EST 2013
lrc at red4est.com wrote:

> Flash! Mark and Godfrey are different people.

Mark!

I have been always suspecting that, but was never really sure...
[GRIN]

> Most of us consider this to be a good thing.


Igor



-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

BTW, you can back up your iPhone or iPod touch to an iPad, or one iPad
to another iPad, using the Camera Connection Kit's USB connector. This
works very well: I use the iPhone 4S as a compact camera a good bit of
the time (it's a darn good camera) and transfer the photos to the iPad
to process them as the iPad is a lot better as an image processing
environment.

-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 3:28 PM, steve harley  wrote:
> on 2013-02-14 3:49 Joseph McAllister wrote
>
>> The iPad  can be configured with one or more of Apple's dongles for SD
>> cards.
>
> but a major downside is that an iPad can't copy *to* an SD card or USB
> storage; it can only copy from it; this is one of the only things that has
> made me consider jailbreaking my iPad; once copied to the iPad, you can sync
> files to a computer in several ways, and there are devices that allow moving
> files bidirectionally over wifi, but none are as simple as simply copying to
> an SD card (which would aid in making field backups)

This is because iOS does not support external file systems, which
cannot be sandboxed. A sandboxed file system promotes security and
minimizes virus attacks, particularly important in mobile devices.

I don't use the iPad as a field storage device which needs backup. I
use it as a display device to check or share images quickly, or as an
image processing machine from which I post the results to the net,
effectively backing them up automatically. BTW, in using the iPad for
two years now, and moving thousands and thousands of files through it,
I've yet to lose a single image file or have the device lock up for
any reason.

Jailbreaking not only invalidates the warranty, it also opens your iOS
device to a host of attacks and problems. Many do it. I advise against
it. Everyone I know who has at first used Jailbreak to get around the
iOS security has, over time, restored their iPad, iPhone and iPod
touch to its standard configuration. The standard iOS configuration
just works better and is more reliable.

The simplest way to move image files stored on an iPad to a computer
is to connect the devices with the cable provided and move the files
using the utility applications provided for either OS X (Image
Capture) or Windows (see http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4083 for
details). This maintains the security of the system and provides the
fastest, easiest data transfer without having to worry about card and
reader compatibilities, double copying time, etc.
-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[steve harley]

on 2013-02-14 3:49 Joseph McAllister wrote

The iPad  can be configured with one or more of Apple's dongles for SD cards.


but a major downside is that an iPad can't copy *to* an SD card or USB storage; 
it can only copy from it; this is one of the only things that has made me 
consider jailbreaking my iPad; once copied to the iPad, you can sync files to a 
computer in several ways, and there are devices that allow moving files 
bidirectionally over wifi, but none are as simple as simply copying to an SD 
card (which would aid in making field backups)




--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: RE> Android tablets for showing photos?

[steve harley]

on 2013-02-14 12:15 John Sessoms wrote

Observation from way out here in left field ...

The biggest problem with tablets for displaying photos is when they get passed
around someone inadvertently touches the wrong place and shuts down the viewing
application, requiring the tablet to be passed back to the owner many, many
times before everyone gets to look at all the photos.


that is solved by the iPad Photo Frame feature i mentioned earlier in the 
thread; it has a lot of limits, but it makes the slideshow almost foolproof




--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: RE> Android tablets for showing photos?

[Igor Roshchin]

Thu Feb 14 14:27:39 EST 2013
Godfrey DiGiorgi:

On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 11:15 AM, John Sessoms  wrote:
> > Observation from way out here in left field ...
> >
> > The biggest problem with tablets for displaying photos is when they
> > get
> > passed around someone inadvertently touches the wrong place and shuts
> > down
> > the viewing application, requiring the tablet to be passed back to the
> > owner
> > many, many times before everyone gets to look at all the photos.
> 
> With the iPad, if I'm at home and there's more than just me and a
> friend or two looking at the photos, I just switch on the television
> and Air Play the photos to the 40" screen via the AppleTV. No need to
> pass the iPad around then. ;-)

I vividly see an advertisement slogan from that:

"iPad -- poor man's TV."

and:

"40-inch iPad: if you share it with friends"

Igor



;-)

Igor


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[kwaller]

Godfrey,
Is there an app, with RAW to TIFF to JPEG conversion ability that you'd 
reccommend?


Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: "Godfrey DiGiorgi" 

Subject: Re: Android tablets for showing photos?



On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 12:40 PM,   wrote:

I might be mistaken but IIRC the ipad will only show jpegs.


JPEG, TIFF, EPUB, and PDF files can all be viewed on an iPad using the
supplied apps. Third-party apps can raw conversion and display other
formats.

--
Godfrey
 godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: RE> Android tablets for showing photos?

[Aahz Maruch]

On Thu, Feb 14, 2013, kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote:
> - Original Message - From: "Aahz Maruch" 
> Subject: Re: RE> Android tablets for showing photos?
>>On Thu, Feb 14, 2013, John Sessoms wrote:
>>>
>>>The biggest problem with tablets for displaying photos is when they
>>>get passed around someone inadvertently touches the wrong place and
>>>shuts down the viewing application, requiring the tablet to be
>>>passed back to the owner many, many times before everyone gets to
>>>look at all the photos.
>>
>>Yeah, I was wondering if a photo frame might be a better option, but I
>>see few battery-powered ones.
>
> The few photo frames I'm familar with don't have anything close to
> the quality of image on an ipad.

True enough, question is how important security is for Larry.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 12:40 PM,   wrote:
> I might be mistaken but IIRC the ipad will only show jpegs.

JPEG, TIFF, EPUB, and PDF files can all be viewed on an iPad using the
supplied apps. Third-party apps can raw conversion and display other
formats.

-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: RE> Android tablets for showing photos?

[kwaller]

The few photo frames I'm familar with don't have anything close to the 
quality of image on an ipad.


Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: "Aahz Maruch" 

Subject: Re: RE> Android tablets for showing photos?



On Thu, Feb 14, 2013, John Sessoms wrote:


The biggest problem with tablets for displaying photos is when they
get passed around someone inadvertently touches the wrong place and
shuts down the viewing application, requiring the tablet to be
passed back to the owner many, many times before everyone gets to
look at all the photos.


Yeah, I was wondering if a photo frame might be a better option, but I
see few battery-powered ones.
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 
http://rule6.info/

 <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[kwaller]

I might be mistaken but IIRC the ipad will only show jpegs.

Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: "Joseph McAllister" 

Subject: Re: Android tablets for showing photos?


The iPad  can be configured with one or more of Apple's dongles for SD 
cards. There is also a device that will allow you to power the iPad with a 
USB wall-wart that has a pass through so the SD card dongle can be used at 
the same time.



On Feb 13, 2013, at 21:38 , kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote:

Hard to beat the ipad IMO. I have a bunch of images on my wife's first 
gen ipad and they look great. Later versions of the ipad have improved 
screens but I've yet to see one.



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[lrc]

Flash! Mark and Godfrey are different people.
Most of us consider this to be a good thing.

Mark Roberts  wrote:

>Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
>
>>On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Mark Roberts
>> wrote:
>>>
The iPad  can be configured with one or more of Apple's dongles for
>SD cards.
>>>
>>> One on the "not negotiable" requirements I had when I went shopping
>>> for a tablet was "no dongles for connectivity".
>>
>>It's less important to me whether I need a little adapter to read a
>>card, which I do seldom, vs whether the tablet does what I need, which
>>I use all the time. Having the card interface via an adapter also
>>means that it can be upgraded without buying another tablet, and saves
>>space in the tablet for more screen and battery relative to the
>>tablet's size.
>
>I want - require - my tablet to be able to do both common and rare
>tasks all the time, without advance notice. With no dongles. (I'll
>probably replace the tablet before I need to upgrade the card
>interface.)

-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: RE> Android tablets for showing photos?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 11:15 AM, John Sessoms  wrote:
> Observation from way out here in left field ...
>
> The biggest problem with tablets for displaying photos is when they get
> passed around someone inadvertently touches the wrong place and shuts down
> the viewing application, requiring the tablet to be passed back to the owner
> many, many times before everyone gets to look at all the photos.

With the iPad, if I'm at home and there's more than just me and a
friend or two looking at the photos, I just switch on the television
and Air Play the photos to the 40" screen via the AppleTV. No need to
pass the iPad around then. ;-)

-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Mark Roberts
 wrote:
>>It's less important to me whether I need a little adapter to read a
>>card, which I do seldom, vs whether the tablet does what I need, which
>>I use all the time. Having the card interface via an adapter also
>>means that it can be upgraded without buying another tablet, and saves
>>space in the tablet for more screen and battery relative to the
>>tablet's size.
>
> I want - require - my tablet to be able to do both common and rare
> tasks all the time, without advance notice. With no dongles. (I'll
> probably replace the tablet before I need to upgrade the card
> interface.)

Doesn't take much to keep the card and USB interfaces in my bag or
pocket for immediate use. I don't have to make an appointment with the
iPad to schedule that. ;-)

You're happy with your tablet. I'm happy with mine. Life is good.
Maybe Larry will find one he's happy with.

-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: RE> Android tablets for showing photos?

[Aahz Maruch]

On Thu, Feb 14, 2013, John Sessoms wrote:
> 
> The biggest problem with tablets for displaying photos is when they
> get passed around someone inadvertently touches the wrong place and
> shuts down the viewing application, requiring the tablet to be
> passed back to the owner many, many times before everyone gets to
> look at all the photos.

Yeah, I was wondering if a photo frame might be a better option, but I
see few battery-powered ones.
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

RE> Android tablets for showing photos?

[John Sessoms]

Observation from way out here in left field ...

The biggest problem with tablets for displaying photos is when they get 
passed around someone inadvertently touches the wrong place and shuts 
down the viewing application, requiring the tablet to be passed back to 
the owner many, many times before everyone gets to look at all the photos.


From: "Larry Colen"

When I had time, but no money, my plan had been to root a nook color for
displaying photos.  Out of the box, the UI on the nook sucks soggy lint.
However, in reasonable light the display isn't bad.

Compared to my S3, the display on the nook isn't so great either, just a
bit bigger.

However, now that I'm working, I'm slightly less poor financially, but
completely destitute temporally.

I'd like an android tablet that is good for displaying photos. Big enough
that photos are reasonably easy to see.  I also want to be able to point
to photos in one directory, and be hand the tablet to someone without
having to worry overmuch that they might accidentally see photos in
another directory tree.  The last is, I am sure, much more of a software
than a hardware question.

What tablets would fit the bill, and how much do they cost?

I'm not completely dead set against iPads, but my experiences on iOS
devices have not been good so far.



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Mark Roberts]

Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:

>On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Mark Roberts
> wrote:
>>
>>>The iPad  can be configured with one or more of Apple's dongles for SD cards.
>>
>> One on the "not negotiable" requirements I had when I went shopping
>> for a tablet was "no dongles for connectivity".
>
>It's less important to me whether I need a little adapter to read a
>card, which I do seldom, vs whether the tablet does what I need, which
>I use all the time. Having the card interface via an adapter also
>means that it can be upgraded without buying another tablet, and saves
>space in the tablet for more screen and battery relative to the
>tablet's size.

I want - require - my tablet to be able to do both common and rare
tasks all the time, without advance notice. With no dongles. (I'll
probably replace the tablet before I need to upgrade the card
interface.)

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Mark Roberts
 wrote:
>
>>The iPad  can be configured with one or more of Apple's dongles for SD cards.
>
> One on the "not negotiable" requirements I had when I went shopping
> for a tablet was "no dongles for connectivity".

It's less important to me whether I need a little adapter to read a
card, which I do seldom, vs whether the tablet does what I need, which
I use all the time. Having the card interface via an adapter also
means that it can be upgraded without buying another tablet, and saves
space in the tablet for more screen and battery relative to the
tablet's size.

-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Mark Roberts]

Joseph McAllister wrote:

>The iPad  can be configured with one or more of Apple's dongles for SD cards.

One on the "not negotiable" requirements I had when I went shopping
for a tablet was "no dongles for connectivity".
 
-- 
Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia
www.robertstech.com





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Mark Roberts]

Larry Colen wrote:

>Also, Mark, if you shoot RAW+JPEG can you put the card from your camera in
>the thrive and chimp the photos on the bigger screen?

Yep.
 
-- 
Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia
www.robertstech.com





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Joseph McAllister]

The iPad  can be configured with one or more of Apple's dongles for SD cards. 
There is also a device that will allow you to power the iPad with a USB 
wall-wart that has a pass through so the SD card dongle can be used at the same 
time.


On Feb 13, 2013, at 21:38 , kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote:

> Hard to beat the ipad IMO. I have a bunch of images on my wife's first gen 
> ipad and they look great. Later versions of the ipad have improved screens 
> but I've yet to see one.


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[steve harley]

on 2013-02-13 17:26 Larry Colen wrote

I'd like an android tablet that is good for displaying photos. Big enough
that photos are reasonably easy to see.  I also want to be able to point
to photos in one directory, and be hand the tablet to someone without
having to worry overmuch that they might accidentally see photos in
another directory tree.  The last is, I am sure, much more of a software
than a hardware question.


sounds like you want a sort of "guest mode"

iOS's built-in Picture Frame does some of this; you specify a specific "album" 
or albums that can be viewed when the iPad is locked (albums can be creat; you 
can configure certain parameters in advance, but then it is basically a 
slideshow with no user control


there are many other slideshow methods on iOS; i don't know of any that are 
locked down as you want





--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Bill]

On 13/02/2013 6:26 PM, Larry Colen wrote:

When I had time, but no money, my plan had been to root a nook color for
displaying photos.  Out of the box, the UI on the nook sucks soggy lint.
However, in reasonable light the display isn't bad.

Compared to my S3, the display on the nook isn't so great either, just a
bit bigger.

However, now that I'm working, I'm slightly less poor financially, but
completely destitute temporally.

I'd like an android tablet that is good for displaying photos. Big enough
that photos are reasonably easy to see.  I also want to be able to point
to photos in one directory, and be hand the tablet to someone without
having to worry overmuch that they might accidentally see photos in
another directory tree.  The last is, I am sure, much more of a software
than a hardware question.

What tablets would fit the bill, and how much do they cost?

I'm not completely dead set against iPads, but my experiences on iOS
devices have not been good so far.

I'm using an Asus EEE thing these days. Mostly as a glorified paperback 
novel, I admit, but pictures I put on it display very nicely. One of the 
main seeling features for me was that I can put the thing on a real 
keyboard and have a semblance of a computer if I desire, and the battery 
life, which if the keyboard is added in is close to 18 hours.


bill

--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Rob Studdert]

On 14 February 2013 12:15, Mark Roberts  wrote:
>
> Yep, software issue as far as directory security goes. I use the
> QuickPic app and it does what you want.

I use QuickPic on my Android Phone too, I went through a few and it's
probably the most utilitarian and least fluffy.

> --
> Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia
> www.robertstech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.



-- 
Rob Studdert (Digital  Image Studio)
Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours
Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[kwaller]

Hard to beat the ipad IMO. I have a bunch of images on my wife's first gen 
ipad and they look great. Later versions of the ipad have improved screens 
but I've yet to see one.


Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: "Larry Colen" 

Subject: Android tablets for showing photos?



When I had time, but no money, my plan had been to root a nook color for
displaying photos.  Out of the box, the UI on the nook sucks soggy lint.
However, in reasonable light the display isn't bad.

Compared to my S3, the display on the nook isn't so great either, just a
bit bigger.

However, now that I'm working, I'm slightly less poor financially, but
completely destitute temporally.

I'd like an android tablet that is good for displaying photos. Big enough
that photos are reasonably easy to see.  I also want to be able to point
to photos in one directory, and be hand the tablet to someone without
having to worry overmuch that they might accidentally see photos in
another directory tree.  The last is, I am sure, much more of a software
than a hardware question.

What tablets would fit the bill, and how much do they cost?

I'm not completely dead set against iPads, but my experiences on iOS
devices have not been good so far.

--
l...@red4est.com via squirrelmail



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Larry Colen]

>>
>> What tablets would fit the bill, and how much do they cost?
>
>
> While I was in hospital, my family bought me a Samsung Galaxy Note
> 10.1 (16 GB, WiFi version).  I have nothing to compare it with but it
> seems fine for displaying photos.
>
> It doesn't have a USB port built in, but you can get a couple of
> dongles that plug into its multi-purpose port - one provides a USB
> connector and the other is an SD card reader.  The tablet also has a
> micro SD card slot.
>
> Like Mark, I use QuickPic for displaying photos.  Another application
> that gets good reviews is Just Pictures but it has an annoying habit
> of resetting the screen brightness to maximum and, if there's a way of
> turning that 'feature' off, I haven't found it.
>
> The Galaxy Note 10.1 sells for about $500 in Oz - probably less in the US.

Interesting, thanks.

I remember Tim Bray recently posted about how the screen on his new tablet
(Nexus?) was so good he had to reconsider how he processed photos for
display.  Anybody know how the different screens compare?

Also, Mark, if you shoot RAW+JPEG can you put the card from your camera in
the thrive and chimp the photos on the bigger screen?

-- 
l...@red4est.com via squirrelmail


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Brian Walters]

Quoting Larry Colen :


When I had time, but no money, my plan had been to root a nook color for
displaying photos.  Out of the box, the UI on the nook sucks soggy lint.
However, in reasonable light the display isn't bad.

Compared to my S3, the display on the nook isn't so great either, just a
bit bigger.

However, now that I'm working, I'm slightly less poor financially, but
completely destitute temporally.

I'd like an android tablet that is good for displaying photos. Big enough
that photos are reasonably easy to see.  I also want to be able to point
to photos in one directory, and be hand the tablet to someone without
having to worry overmuch that they might accidentally see photos in
another directory tree.  The last is, I am sure, much more of a software
than a hardware question.

What tablets would fit the bill, and how much do they cost?

I'm not completely dead set against iPads, but my experiences on iOS
devices have not been good so far.



While I was in hospital, my family bought me a Samsung Galaxy Note  
10.1 (16 GB, WiFi version).  I have nothing to compare it with but it  
seems fine for displaying photos.


It doesn't have a USB port built in, but you can get a couple of  
dongles that plug into its multi-purpose port - one provides a USB  
connector and the other is an SD card reader.  The tablet also has a  
micro SD card slot.


Like Mark, I use QuickPic for displaying photos.  Another application  
that gets good reviews is Just Pictures but it has an annoying habit  
of resetting the screen brightness to maximum and, if there's a way of  
turning that 'feature' off, I haven't found it.


The Galaxy Note 10.1 sells for about $500 in Oz - probably less in the US.



--
Cheers

Brian

++
Brian Walters
Western Sydney Australia
http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/



--
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Mark Roberts]

Larry Colen wrote:

>I'd like an android tablet that is good for displaying photos. Big enough
>that photos are reasonably easy to see.  I also want to be able to point
>to photos in one directory, and be hand the tablet to someone without
>having to worry overmuch that they might accidentally see photos in
>another directory tree.  The last is, I am sure, much more of a software
>than a hardware question.

Yep, software issue as far as directory security goes. I use the
QuickPic app and it does what you want.

>What tablets would fit the bill, and how much do they cost?

I'm using the Toshiba Thrive (around $400 last time I checked but I'm
not even sure if it's still available given how fast this technology
moves). It's a 10" tablet. Good display. Has a *built in* SD card
slot(yay!) Also has a *full size* USB port - and the USB does hosting,
so you can attach a standard USB flash drive and move files to/from
it. Also has mini USB and an HDMI port, though I've never used either
of those.

SO QuickPic is my image browser. I use RawDroid for viewing raw files.
Opera mobile for a web browser (though I also have the default browser
and Firefox installed). http://www.robertstech.com/blog/?p=804
 
-- 
Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia
www.robertstech.com





-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Re: Android tablets for showing photos?

[Paul Stenquist]

iPad display is awesome. OS isn't much of a factor for flipping through photos. 
That being said my iPhone 5 is light years ahead of my moto droid 2.

Paul via phone

On Feb 13, 2013, at 7:26 PM, "Larry Colen"  wrote:

> When I had time, but no money, my plan had been to root a nook color for
> displaying photos.  Out of the box, the UI on the nook sucks soggy lint.
> However, in reasonable light the display isn't bad.
> 
> Compared to my S3, the display on the nook isn't so great either, just a
> bit bigger.
> 
> However, now that I'm working, I'm slightly less poor financially, but
> completely destitute temporally.
> 
> I'd like an android tablet that is good for displaying photos. Big enough
> that photos are reasonably easy to see.  I also want to be able to point
> to photos in one directory, and be hand the tablet to someone without
> having to worry overmuch that they might accidentally see photos in
> another directory tree.  The last is, I am sure, much more of a software
> than a hardware question.
> 
> What tablets would fit the bill, and how much do they cost?
> 
> I'm not completely dead set against iPads, but my experiences on iOS
> devices have not been good so far.
> 
> -- 
> l...@red4est.com via squirrelmail
> 
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.

-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.

Android tablets for showing photos?

[Larry Colen]

When I had time, but no money, my plan had been to root a nook color for
displaying photos.  Out of the box, the UI on the nook sucks soggy lint.
However, in reasonable light the display isn't bad.

Compared to my S3, the display on the nook isn't so great either, just a
bit bigger.

However, now that I'm working, I'm slightly less poor financially, but
completely destitute temporally.

I'd like an android tablet that is good for displaying photos. Big enough
that photos are reasonably easy to see.  I also want to be able to point
to photos in one directory, and be hand the tablet to someone without
having to worry overmuch that they might accidentally see photos in
another directory tree.  The last is, I am sure, much more of a software
than a hardware question.

What tablets would fit the bill, and how much do they cost?

I'm not completely dead set against iPads, but my experiences on iOS
devices have not been good so far.

-- 
l...@red4est.com via squirrelmail


-- 
PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
the directions.