Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Aside from Minolta users, no one cared, because it was a Minolta. The same thing would be true for a flagship Pentax. Pentax will never recover the RD costs, let alone make a profit, on a hot snot film SLR. The whole film SLR market is shrinking due to digital. It will go from single digit to double digit negative growth as the DSLRs get better and cheaper. The window of opportunity for new world class (as opposed to boutique class) SLRs closed 4 years ago. Anyone trying to make a case for Pentax coming out with a new high end body and line of lenses is a strong candidate for psychotropic drugs. The future existance of film based cameras might be debateble, but I always thought good lenses were important. I know Photoshop can do wonders, but no amount of sharpening can replace high resolution lenses. Am I missing something? regards, Alan Chan _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com
Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
That was 1985. Only Herb Keppler and Goobers care what Minolta does now. I doubt it. regards, Alan Chan _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com
Re: OT: Herb Keppler's article (Re[2]: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?)
Message text written by INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Herb, Resolution test done with real film indicate the performance of the film and lens combination. The actual resolution of the lens is much higher than indicated in a simple test. The relation ship is 1/final resolution = 1/film resolution + 1/lens resolution. by this, a smaller imaging element is better than a larger one at a fixed number of pixels since there are more pixels per mm of linear length. Herb...
Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Alan Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The future existance of film based cameras might be debateble, but I always thought good lenses were important. I know Photoshop can do wonders, but no amount of sharpening can replace high resolution lenses. Am I missing something? I don't think so. We may change recording media, but we still need the lenses to project the images on the media and Pentax glass is *very* good at that. Anyone interested in a 67II with a DCS Pro back from Kodak? -- http://members.chello.nl/~j.schoone\\|// Registered Linux user #78364 - The Linux Counter - http://counter.li.org Assume nothing, expect anything.
Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
I seem to remember seeing somewhere that Minolta sells more SLR's than Pentax. Of course, Minolta does advertize. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/05/02 05:08AM That was 1985. Only Herb Keppler and Goobers care what Minolta does now. I doubt it. regards, Alan Chan _ Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com
No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Photokina pages were updated, and it seems there is no D-SLR on Pentax
exposition :-(
http://www.ausstellerliste-koelnmesse.de/besuchsplanung/index.php?CLSID={3d7
5c7b3e03ec-15-50586}
--
Best Regards
Sylwek
Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
sigh
same old news, then.
Strange, though, that Single Lens Reflex Cameras is listed
twice...
Jostein
-- Original Message --
From: Sylwester Pietrzyk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Photokina pages were updated, and it seems there is no D-SLR on
Pentax
exposition :-(
http://www.ausstellerliste-koelnmesse.de/besuchsplanung/index.php?
CLSID={3d7
5c7b3e03ec-15-50586}
--
Best Regards
Sylwek
.
Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
- Original Message - From: Sylwester Pietrzyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Interesting list! Lenses for large and medium format cameras! Schniender/Rodenstock - take notice! Bob Oh, it really does not list and new items.
RE: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Well..
I think that seals it..
I was hoping.. nay praying that I'd see Pentax come out with a blockbuster
announcement stating that they were actually releasing or working on or
contracting out a DSLR body that will accept K mount lenses.
An affordable (comparitively speaking of course) DSLR that will take the
K-mount glass I already own.
I don't need a professional DSLR .. hell.. I don't even think I'd buy the
first generation.. I'd wait.. oh.. maybe for the second generation :-)
But nope.. looks like it ain't gonna happen.
Every dealer I've spoken to has confirmed that Pentax is AWFULLY good at
keeping secrets (except from you lot here) :) and as such, I was thinking
that the DSLR would become a reality. I had heard rumour, heresay and the
general whispers that accompany them. Now, my hopes are dashed.
*sigh*
I'll wait till the end of Photokina.
If there's nothing.. absolutely nothing..
I'm going to say goodbye to the k-mount lenses and the sweet LX.
I will sell my soul to the devil.. and end up with Everything Or Something
from that company that starts with a C and ends in an N.
Sadly,
Dave
Original Message:
-
From: Sylwester Pietrzyk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 10:47:17 +0200
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Photokina pages were updated, and it seems there is no D-SLR on Pentax
exposition :-(
http://www.ausstellerliste-koelnmesse.de/besuchsplanung/index.php?CLSID={3d7
5c7b3e03ec-15-50586}
--
Best Regards
Sylwek
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .
Re: Re[2]: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
OK guys and gals, go shoot some Kodachrome, get it developed, and look at it on the light table. You will all feel better as you wait to see what Pentax has up it's sleeve. Robert Remember, Canon and Nikon lose money on their digital cameras(how the heck do they stay in business anyway??). My biggest problem is not that I need a DSLR but that Pentax will suffer so much financially that it might have to go the Olympus rote and just stop making SLR's altogether, and instead make their money on PS cameras. more likely, they would suffer financially if they *did* produce a dslr. besides, many have pointed out (and i also agree with that) that it may very well be that dslr is not The Way, so why waste tons of rd resources now on a potentially loosing technology? a new flagship slr or a bunch of top notch lenses would more likely to win them new customers as well as good publicity. speaking for myself, i would definitely pass a $5K whizz bang gadget that takes worse pictures than any $100 ps, but would seriously consider $1K slr that had USM, IS etc. and i suspect, i am not the only one. By the way, my spell checker keeps trying to replace Photokina with Fettuccini. makes sense to me :) best, Mishka _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
RE: Re[2]: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Rob... you assume too much :) The jump ship would be first to a standard FILM SLR.. this will at least allow me to gather a lens or two. The digital SLR won't be for a while - but by that time - Canon or Nikon or Fuji would be well into longer generations and as we've seen, the price should stay reasonably low (with respect to current pricing) when I eventually do decide to go DSLR. I don't plan on jumping right in with both feet without testing the water first. And.. beyond that.. I still will have a hand in the Pentax camp as I still own an old screwmount SL (and a K mount converter) Cheers, Dave Original Message: - From: Rob Brigham [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 14:18:23 +0100 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Re[2]: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina? Touble is, with digital cameras the bugs don't get ironed out completely - you get a replacement model with a different set of bugs. The latest Canon, Nikon, Fuji and Contax D-SLRs have all had some form of recall or firmware fix for serious problems and some of those are second or third generation! I must admit it did seem a little inconsistent that if Pentax brought out a DSLR now, you would wait for the replacement model, but if they didn't you felt you had to jump ship immediately. Either you need one now, or you can wait - you seem to be saying both. OK, I sort of understand what you are saying, but while technology is advancing as rapidly as it is, generation 1, 2 or 47 will all have problems as they don't seem to properly QA stuff before releasing it - I guess we would wait 10 years for a fully tested D-SLR, so they let us test it for them! mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .
RE: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Doug, Neither do I.. :) You'll note I said I would wait until AFTER Photokina :) Cheers, Dave Original Message: - From: Doug Brewer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 09:53:36 -0400 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina? You know, I make all my equipment decisions based on a report of what someone didn't read on a web page... Doug always helpful Brewer I'll wait till the end of Photokina. If there's nothing.. absolutely nothing.. I'm going to say goodbye to the k-mount lenses and the sweet LX. I will sell my soul to the devil.. and end up with Everything Or Something from that company that starts with a C and ends in an N. Sadly, Dave mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .
Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Photokina pages were updated, and it seems there is no D-SLR on Pentax
exposition :-(
http://www.ausstellerliste-koelnmesse.de/besuchsplanung/index.php?CLSID={3d7
5c7b3e03ec-15-50586}
Poppycock. There's nothing on that list that tells me that a DSLR will
not be shown.
Cotty
Cor, swipe me. He paints with light!
http://www.macads.co.uk/snaps/
Free UK Macintosh classified ads at
http://www.macads.co.uk/
RE: Re[2]: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
At 10:46 AM 9/4/02 -0400, J. C. O'Connell wrote: THE FUTURE IS DIGITAL. ... I still feel somebody is going to come up with a full frame sensor which will retrofit to existing film SLRs, especially once the full frame sensors get cheap enuff. Maybe not if DSLR bodies get cheap enuff real fast. JCO Give it up. No manufacturer is going to waste the time or money developing a digital back or insert for 35mm cameras. Digital sensors are power hungry beasts. They require lots of inputs and outputs. You don't want the average consumer to have to deal with the fragile sensor surface, dust issues, etc. There are too many technical and marketing hurdles to overcome for such a solution to be feasible. If you want digital, buy a digital body. --Mike
RE: Re[2]: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
It wouldnt really be that difficult IMHO just add an electronic box that mounts under the camera with all the guts in it, and then tether all the electronics into one cable to the sensor. Like I said, if DSLR bodies get cheap enuff fast enuff, there would be no point in doing such a setup. JCO -Original Message- From: Michael Nosal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 12:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Re[2]: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina? At 10:46 AM 9/4/02 -0400, J. C. O'Connell wrote: THE FUTURE IS DIGITAL. ... I still feel somebody is going to come up with a full frame sensor which will retrofit to existing film SLRs, especially once the full frame sensors get cheap enuff. Maybe not if DSLR bodies get cheap enuff real fast. JCO Give it up. No manufacturer is going to waste the time or money developing a digital back or insert for 35mm cameras. Digital sensors are power hungry beasts. They require lots of inputs and outputs. You don't want the average consumer to have to deal with the fragile sensor surface, dust issues, etc. There are too many technical and marketing hurdles to overcome for such a solution to be feasible. If you want digital, buy a digital body. --Mike
Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Really?
I hear Nikon will have a fifty-foot high F5 carved out of cheese,
despite the objections of neighbouring standholders.
--
Kristian
On Wednesday, Sep 4, 2002, at 15:59 Europe/Dublin, Rubenstein, Bruce M
(Bruce) wrote:
No, but I hear there will be private showings of their new fiber optic
guided buggy whips.
BR
(Doug, you gotta fix the Digests!)
-Original Message-
From: Sylwester Pietrzyk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 4:47 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Photokina pages were updated, and it seems there is no D-SLR on Pentax
exposition :-(
http://www.ausstellerliste-koelnmesse.de/besuchsplanung/index.
php?CLSID={3d7
5c7b3e03ec-15-50586}
--
Best Regards
Sylwek
Re: Re[2]: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Doesn't Pentax lose money every year lately? - Original Message - From: Robert Woerner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 10:17 AM Subject: Re: Re[2]: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina? OK guys and gals, go shoot some Kodachrome, get it developed, and look at it on the light table. You will all feel better as you wait to see what Pentax has up it's sleeve. Robert Remember, Canon and Nikon lose money on their digital cameras(how the heck do they stay in business anyway??). My biggest problem is not that I need a DSLR but that Pentax will suffer so much financially that it might have to go the Olympus rote and just stop making SLR's altogether, and instead make their money on PS cameras. more likely, they would suffer financially if they *did* produce a dslr. besides, many have pointed out (and i also agree with that) that it may very well be that dslr is not The Way, so why waste tons of rd resources now on a potentially loosing technology? a new flagship slr or a bunch of top notch lenses would more likely to win them new customers as well as good publicity. speaking for myself, i would definitely pass a $5K whizz bang gadget that takes worse pictures than any $100 ps, but would seriously consider $1K slr that had USM, IS etc. and i suspect, i am not the only one. By the way, my spell checker keeps trying to replace Photokina with Fettuccini. makes sense to me :) best, Mishka _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Volume. Actually, Canon does make money selling cameras: http://www.photointer.com/pageset/page16.html Camera segment sales were ¥211,392 million, up 20.8%. Silver-based photographic cameras are cited as continuing to decrease due to market tilt toward digital cameras and low pricing of silver-based cameras. Canon brought in 7 new digital cameras to strengthen its IXY and PowerShot lines. Digital video camera sales in the United Sates and in other markets are said selling well. Segment sales accounted for 13% of total company sales. Earnings on sales were ¥28,055 million, up 83.3%. Camera sales that stood at ¥211,392 million for the first half of the fiscal year were 34% by silver-based cameras, 45% by digital still cameras and 23% by video cameras. From: Robert Woerner Remember, Canon and Nikon lose money on their digital cameras(how the heck do they stay in business anyway??).
Re: Re[2]: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
not as much as some other companies. --- Ryan K. Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doesn't Pentax lose money every year lately? - Original Message - From: Robert Woerner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 10:17 AM Subject: Re: Re[2]: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina? OK guys and gals, go shoot some Kodachrome, get it developed, and look at it on the light table. You will all feel better as you wait to see what Pentax has up it's sleeve. Robert Remember, Canon and Nikon lose money on their digital cameras(how the heck do they stay in business anyway??). My biggest problem is not that I need a DSLR but that Pentax will suffer so much financially that it might have to go the Olympus rote and just stop making SLR's altogether, and instead make their money on PS cameras. more likely, they would suffer financially if they *did* produce a dslr. besides, many have pointed out (and i also agree with that) that it may very well be that dslr is not The Way, so why waste tons of rd resources now on a potentially loosing technology? a new flagship slr or a bunch of top notch lenses would more likely to win them new customers as well as good publicity. speaking for myself, i would definitely pass a $5K whizz bang gadget that takes worse pictures than any $100 ps, but would seriously consider $1K slr that had USM, IS etc. and i suspect, i am not the only one. By the way, my spell checker keeps trying to replace Photokina with Fettuccini. makes sense to me :) best, Mishka _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com __ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
Re: Re[2]: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
I guess I wasn't being clear about this. I'm definitely not saying that Pentax needs a DSLR to stay in business. I'm saying that my fear is that Pentax might have so much financial trouble (for any reason) that they will go the Olympus route and stop producing their better cameras, especially the 35 mm variety. I think this financial trouble is most likely to come from overall loss of market share and not from the absence of any single product. Pentax serves my needs just fine and I would be more likely to buy an IS lens than a DSLR. I'm not sure what I think about the so-called flagship 35mm. In my mind, the MZ-S is obviously in league with the F100 or EOS-3. The Pentax flagship would be the EOS-1v/F5 counterpart which would cost at least $1200-$1500. Even if such a beast were available with better FPS, AF x-sensors, etc., I know that I would still prefer my MZ-S at the lower price (given my needs). Would such a camera save Pentax. I have no clue. It certainly didn't help Minolta that much. Steven Desjardins Department of Chemistry Washington and Lee University Lexington, VA 24450 (540) 458-8873 FAX: (540) 458-8878 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/04/02 10:36AM My biggest problem is not that I need a DSLR but that Pentax will suffer so much financially that it might have to go the Olympus rote and just stop making SLR's altogether, and instead make their money on PS cameras. more likely, they would suffer financially if they *did* produce a dslr. besides, many have pointed out (and i also agree with that) that it may very well be that dslr is not The Way, so why waste tons of rd resources now on a potentially loosing technology? a new flagship slr or a bunch of top notch lenses would more likely to win them new customers as well as good publicity. speaking for myself, i would definitely pass a $5K whizz bang gadget that takes worse pictures than any $100 ps, but would seriously consider $1K slr that had USM, IS etc. and i suspect, i am not the only one. By the way, my spell checker keeps trying to replace Photokina with Fettuccini. makes sense to me :) best, Mishka
Re: Re[2]: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Pentax may have thought that it will not save them and decided not to release their pj-1 --- Steve Desjardins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would such a camera save Pentax. I have no clue. It certainly didn't help Minolta that much. __ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Dick wrote: Didn't anyone read the repeat of Herb Keppler's article on Photokina here yesterday? He explains very specifically why Pentax and Minolta are not in the digital SLR game. But Keppler is wrong. There are more Pentax lenses out there than Canon EF lenses. Pål
Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Sylwester wrote: Photokina pages were updated, and it seems there is no D-SLR on Pentax exposition :-( Huh Why not wait until Photokina and see whats being showed? The web page you mention has never been a preview for whats being shown. Pentax won't disclose anything until they release a press release or until the show itself. Pål
Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
JCO wrote: They didnt go AE till the ES, years after others had it. Huh?? The ES was the worlds first camera with electronic shutter and the first with aperture priority auto. Pal
Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Ryan wrote: Doesn't Pentax lose money every year lately? Almost nothing comparisons to the market leaders in digital. Pål
Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
No good. Doesn't have a metal lens mount . . .
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/04/02 12:41PM
Really?
I hear Nikon will have a fifty-foot high F5 carved out of cheese,
despite the objections of neighbouring standholders.
--
Kristian
On Wednesday, Sep 4, 2002, at 15:59 Europe/Dublin, Rubenstein, Bruce M
(Bruce) wrote:
No, but I hear there will be private showings of their new fiber
optic
guided buggy whips.
BR
(Doug, you gotta fix the Digests!)
-Original Message-
From: Sylwester Pietrzyk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 4:47 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Photokina pages were updated, and it seems there is no D-SLR on
Pentax
exposition :-(
http://www.ausstellerliste-koelnmesse.de/besuchsplanung/index.
php?CLSID={3d7
5c7b3e03ec-15-50586}
--
Best Regards
Sylwek
RE: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Other SLR makers most notably Konica had AE (shutter priority) via automatic aperture setting lenses around 5 years before the Pentax ES. aperture priority isnt the only way to get AE. JCO -Original Message- From: Pal Jensen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 1:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina? JCO wrote: They didnt go AE till the ES, years after others had it. Huh?? The ES was the worlds first camera with electronic shutter and the first with aperture priority auto. Pal
Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Plus, how many pros would buy a yellow camera :-) No good. Doesn't have a metal lens mount . . . [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/04/02 12:41PM Really? I hear Nikon will have a fifty-foot high F5 carved out of cheese, despite the objections of neighbouring standholders. -- Kristian
Re: OT: Herb Keppler's article (Re[2]: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?)
Mike Ignatiev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quote from Herb Keppler's article : In other words, unlike film, the bigger sensor area does not necessarily produce needed higher resolution. Just what has he been smoking? Man, he's gonna get a *lot* of mail on that gaffe! (But think of all the money those pros shooting medium format digital have just been wasting on those $25,000.00 digital systems!) -- Mark Roberts www.robertstech.com
Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Steve wrote: I'm definitely not saying that Pentax needs a DSLR to stay in business. I'm saying that my fear is that Pentax might have so much financial trouble (for any reason) that they will go the Olympus route and stop producing their better cameras, especially the 35 mm variety. I think this financial trouble is most likely to come from overall loss of market share and not from the absence of any single product. Pentax is financially sound compared to all of the competition except Canon. I believe they have the intention of keeping or increasing their 35mm slr market share. For this they need up-to-date products. Pentax serves my needs just fine and I would be more likely to buy an IS lens than a DSLR. We might see both. I believe the digital slr will be relatively cheap. I'm not sure what I think about the so-called flagship 35mm. In my mind, the MZ-S is obviously in league with the F100 or EOS-3. The Pentax flagship would be the EOS-1v/F5 counterpart which would cost at least $1200-$1500. Even if such a beast were available with better FPS, AF x-sensors, etc., I know that I would still prefer my MZ-S at the lower price (given my needs). Would such a camera save Pentax. I have no clue. It certainly didn't help Minolta that much. But for Minolta theirs never was a flagship. It was just a boosted up mid-line model without much, or any, technology or feature not available elsewhere in the line-up. Hence, hardly anyone noticed. However, features like IS and USM may be developed for a flagship but lower end models will take advantage of it as well. Theres no doubt that if IS and USM can be used with the MZ-S it's sales will increase as well. Pål
Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
JCO wrote: Other SLR makers most notably Konica had AE (shutter priority) via automatic aperture setting lenses around 5 years before the Pentax ES. aperture priority isnt the only way to get AE. But only Konica nd Canon bothered with this kind of auto. Most other manufacturers like Pentax, Olympus, Nikon and Minolta found it rather pointless. It had absolutely zero impact something that cannot be said about the ES... Pål
Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Bruce wrote: Are these, like, every lens ever made, catalog entries, or real (you can buy) AF lenses in current production? I'm talking production numbers. Not exclusively AF lenses. I find the idea of a digital slr that take 70's or 80's lenses, in addition to current ones, to be a sound one with an obvious market potential. The fact that there are about 26 000 000 genuine Pentax lenses in existence that will fit a Pentax digital camera is, in my opinion, a good argument for marketing one. But I agree with Keppler that if the PJ market is the target market, a Pentax digital slr don't make much sense. Pål
Re: OT: Herb Keppler's article (Re[2]: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?)
Message text written by INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Quote from Herb Keppler's article : In other words, unlike film, the bigger sensor area does not necessarily produce needed higher resolution. Just what has he been smoking? Man, he's gonna get a *lot* of mail on that gaffe! nothing because there is nothing wrong wiht what he said. larger area doesn't mean more pixels unless they designed the sensor that way. Herb...
Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Green inserts maybe? Gorgonzola dolce? Yummie. Matjaz Green cheese? yuck! --- Ryan K. Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's green, I swear! R - Original Message - From: Bill Owens [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 12:59 PM Subject: Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina? Plus, how many pros would buy a yellow camera :-) No good. Doesn't have a metal lens mount . . . [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/04/02 12:41PM Really? I hear Nikon will have a fifty-foot high F5 carved out of cheese, despite the objections of neighbouring standholders. -- Kristian
Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Aside from Minolta users, no one cared, because it was a Minolta. The same thing would be true for a flagship Pentax. Pentax will never recover the RD costs, let alone make a profit, on a hot snot film SLR. The whole film SLR market is shrinking due to digital. It will go from single digit to double digit negative growth as the DSLRs get better and cheaper. The window of opportunity for new world class (as opposed to boutique class) SLRs closed 4 years ago. Anyone trying to make a case for Pentax coming out with a new high end body and line of lenses is a strong candidate for psychotropic drugs. From: Pål Jensen But for Minolta theirs never was a flagship. It was just a boosted up mid-line model without much, or any, technology or feature not available elsewhere in the line-up. Hence, hardly anyone noticed. However, features like IS and USM may be developed for a flagship but lower end models will take advantage of it as well. Theres no doubt that if IS and USM can be used with the MZ-S it's sales will increase as well.
Re[2]: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
...if those were only legal in my state... Anyone trying to make a case for Pentax coming out with a new high end body and line of lenses is a strong candidate for psychotropic drugs.
Re: Re[2]: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Move to Nevada. It looks like they're getting close . . . Steven Desjardins Department of Chemistry Washington and Lee University Lexington, VA 24450 (540) 458-8873 FAX: (540) 458-8878 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/04/02 04:05PM ...if those were only legal in my state... Anyone trying to make a case for Pentax coming out with a new high end body and line of lenses is a strong candidate for psychotropic drugs.
RE: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Zero impact? I disagree, if you wanted AE in the 1960's SLR, Pentax couldnt deliver. I find AE in any form much more of a landmark than the aperture priority AE ES pentax dished up 5 years laterBTW, Pentax did finally offer shutter priority AE with the A series cameras, 15 years after the leaders in that area. JCO -Original Message- From: Pål Jensen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 3:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina? JCO wrote: Other SLR makers most notably Konica had AE (shutter priority) via automatic aperture setting lenses around 5 years before the Pentax ES. aperture priority isnt the only way to get AE. But only Konica nd Canon bothered with this kind of auto. Most other manufacturers like Pentax, Olympus, Nikon and Minolta found it rather pointless. It had absolutely zero impact something that cannot be said about the ES... Pål
Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
You know, I think the 50 ft F5 of cheese has the makings of acrhetype, at least for Pentaxians. I think Kristian gets the credit. Jung would have been proud. . . . Steven Desjardins Department of Chemistry Washington and Lee University Lexington, VA 24450 (540) 458-8873 FAX: (540) 458-8878 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Bruce wrote: Aside from Minolta users, no one cared, because it was a Minolta. The same thing would be true for a flagship Pentax. But Minolta had huge sucess with their 7000 in spite of being a Minolta. Pentax will never recover the RD costs, let alone make a profit, on a hot snot film SLR. But do anyone recover RD cost on such cameras? The Nikon F100 oves it's existence from Nikon's wish to recover the F5's RD cost. Flagships mission aren't to be profitable but to boost the companies image. The whole film SLR market is shrinking due to digital. It will go from single digit to double digit negative growth as the DSLRs get better and cheaper. The window of opportunity for new world class (as opposed to boutique class) SLRs closed 4 years ago. Anyone trying to make a case for Pentax coming out with a new high end body and line of lenses is a strong candidate for psychotropic drugs. This is exactly where a case can be made. Digital cameras will be cheaper whereas film based cameras will be more expensive. It's conceivable that few in the future will be willing to pay premium (whatever premium will be in the future) for a digital camera due to their built in obsolence. Whereas film cameras will cater more to enthusiasts. Neither the camera industry nor the film industry believe in a total digital conversion. Anyway, if Pentax wants to be a player in the digital slr field, they need modern features as well. The only suitable launchpad for new technology is still film based cameras; the digitals only receive repackaged (and paid for) technology from film slr's. If Pentax plan to market IS and USM anytime soon, they have no choice but to launch it along with film slr(s). In other words, a flagship and new lenses may be a strategic move made for a digital future. Another argument is that there are limits on how long you saturate the market with the same selection of lenses. My guess would be that much Pentax lens line is slower selling now than ever due to the fact that the majority of customers have the lenses they want. Pentax, in particular, has been busy lately catering to existing customers, not new ones without lenses. Although I'm slightly sceptical to major launches at Photokina, it would be funny if your last sentence above turn into one of those famous last words... Pål
Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
JCO wrote: Zero impact? I disagree, if you wanted AE in the 1960's SLR, Pentax couldnt deliver. I think my point was that hardly anyone wanted AE in the 60's. Particularly not in that form.. Pål
Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Hi, Dave, You just go sell your LX along with your k-mount lenses. You just go whole hog into a C or N digital system. Just lemme know what you're selling before you post on the list. Remember how I didn't haggle on the CL? And, you won't have to find boxes to pack stuff in and get to a post office, and what if the stuff is damaged in shipping, and the buyer stops payment on your cheque? Stay local, my boy!! vbg regards, frank [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...I'll wait till the end of Photokina. If there's nothing.. absolutely nothing.. I'm going to say goodbye to the k-mount lenses and the sweet LX. I will sell my soul to the devil.. and end up with Everything Or Something from that company that starts with a C and ends in an N. -- The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true. -J. Robert Oppenheimer
Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Hi, Pal, The Yashica Electro 35 had an aperture priority electronic shutter. When did they come out, around 1968? Maybe earlier. I'm quite certain that they preceded the ES. Of course, they were rangefinders, so the ES would be the first aperture priority SLR with an electronic shutter, AFAIK. Of course, I could be wrong... regards, frank Pal Jensen wrote: Huh?? The ES was the worlds first camera with electronic shutter and the first with aperture priority auto. Pal -- The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true. -J. Robert Oppenheimer
RE: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Not to worry Frank.. everything (if I decide to go that route) will be offered list wide first before going anywhere else. Incidently.. the 90mm Macro already has an interested party and I have let that party know that they will be first. That being said.. the 35-105 SMC-A f3.5, the Vivitar 19mm f3.8 and the 50mm f1.4 SMC-M all need homes still.. I'm still waiting though for photokina... please Pentax.. don't disappoint :) Dave -Original Message- From: frank theriault [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 5:08 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina? Hi, Dave, You just go sell your LX along with your k-mount lenses. You just go whole hog into a C or N digital system. Just lemme know what you're selling before you post on the list. Remember how I didn't haggle on the CL? And, you won't have to find boxes to pack stuff in and get to a post office, and what if the stuff is damaged in shipping, and the buyer stops payment on your cheque? Stay local, my boy!! vbg regards, frank [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...I'll wait till the end of Photokina. If there's nothing.. absolutely nothing.. I'm going to say goodbye to the k-mount lenses and the sweet LX. I will sell my soul to the devil.. and end up with Everything Or Something from that company that starts with a C and ends in an N. -- The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true. -J. Robert Oppenheimer
Re: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?
Hey, Dave, You obviously missed my point. I wanted you to offer them to ~me~ before the list! I'm thinking Viv 19mm, SMC 1.4 50mm, and the LX body... g -frank David Chang-Sang wrote: Not to worry Frank.. everything (if I decide to go that route) will be offered list wide first before going anywhere else. -- The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true. -J. Robert Oppenheimer
Re: OT: Herb Keppler's article (Re[2]: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?)
Herb Chong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Message text written by INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Quote from Herb Keppler's article : In other words, unlike film, the bigger sensor area does not necessarily produce needed higher resolution. Just what has he been smoking? Man, he's gonna get a *lot* of mail on that gaffe! nothing because there is nothing wrong wiht what he said. larger area doesn't mean more pixels unless they designed the sensor that way. But even if a larger CCD *doesn't* have more pixels it will have a higher *analog* resolution (in terms of the number of line pairs that can be resolved across the frame). A full-frame CCD would be 36mm wide and the Nikon D100 CCD is 23.7mm wide. So if you use a lens with a resolution of, say, 50 Line Pairs per Millimeter (I'm picking this value as an example to make the math easier), you'll get a total of 1800 line pairs across the width of the full frame but only 1185 across the width of the D100 frame. For prints, a resolution of 5 lpm is the bare minimum and there's no visual improvement going over 10 lpm. And, using the figures I calculated above, a 10-inch wide print from the full-frame CCD would have a resolution of 7.09 lpm but the same size print from the D100 would have a resolution of only 4.67 lpm. And that's using the *exact same lens*... and CCDs with the *same* megapixel count. This is why many Nikon users report marginal performing lenses in their system don't work well with their digital SLRs. The dirty little secret of digital photography is that the number by which you multiply your focal length (to get 35mm equivalent) is also the number by which you have to DIVIDE your lens' resolution. It's a mathematically inevitable result of using the smaller CCD. Of course, with high quality lenses (better than the 50 lpm in my example) you can get away with dividing your resolution by 1.5 and still get good images. If you use a digital camera with a low megapixel count (effectively having less resolution than the lenses you're using), I suppose the bit about bigger sensors not producing higher resolution might hold true, but most interchangable-lense digital cameras are going to be high megapixel cameras almost by definition. 6 megapixels is going to be the de facto minimum from now on. The idea of using smaller CCDs is attractive in some respects and will always be worthwhile for some people like wildlife specialists, but it'll require a quantum improvement in lens design to get the same image quality we have now with 35mm. The Foveon chip in the Sigma SLR (is that on the market yet?) is so small that you need lenses with 174% better resolution (read that again: 174% better) to get the *same* end resolution as with a full frame. Increasing the megapixel count with a small CCD won't help either. It's sort of like using finer-grained film. You can't get a Pentax 110 camera (or an APS) to produce 35mm-quality images just by using a finer-grained film. (And you can't get medium format results from a 35mm camera that way.) This, rather than compatibility with wide angle lenses, is what's really driving the move to larger CCDs. However: I expect that, even after Canon and Nikon come out with full-frame digital SLRs, they'll continue to make cameras like the D60 (1.6x magnification) and the D1 (1.3x) because the trade-off will be worth while for many photographers like wildlife and sports specialists. In the future, photographers may carry two different camera bodies with different CCD sizes (even if they have identical megapixel count) the way that they now carry camera bodies loaded with different film. (Since you can instantly switch digital cameras from one ISO rating to another and from color to BW, camera makers need another reason to make photographers buy more than one body and CCD size is a natural way to fulfill this need.) -- Mark Roberts www.robertstech.com
Re: OT: Herb Keppler's article (Re[2]: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?)
Not a gaffe. Think a little more... Regards, Bob... From: Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mike Ignatiev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quote from Herb Keppler's article : In other words, unlike film, the bigger sensor area does not necessarily produce needed higher resolution. Just what has he been smoking? Man, he's gonna get a *lot* of mail on that gaffe! (But think of all the money those pros shooting medium format digital have just been wasting on those $25,000.00 digital systems!)
Re: OT: Herb Keppler's article (Re[2]: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?)
give us a clue? - Original Message - From: Bob Blakely [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 7:03 PM Subject: Re: OT: Herb Keppler's article (Re[2]: No Pentax D-SLR on Photokina?) Not a gaffe. Think a little more... Regards, Bob... From: Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mike Ignatiev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Quote from Herb Keppler's article : In other words, unlike film, the bigger sensor area does not necessarily produce needed higher resolution. Just what has he been smoking? Man, he's gonna get a *lot* of mail on that gaffe! (But think of all the money those pros shooting medium format digital have just been wasting on those $25,000.00 digital systems!)
