Re: PAW #6: Tough Boy
Hi, Marnie, Thanks for the comments. Glad you thought it was interesting. Also, I did reply to some specific questions and comments, but for those to whom I haven't specifically replied, thanks for taking the time to comment. I didn't want to waste bandwidth, replying to each and every one of you, unless your comment required a specific answer. And, Marnie, I agree that the explanation wasn't necessary. I left the photo for a couple of days before that post. There seemed to be a few who were a bit unsettled about the photo, so I thought that some background might be helpful. Normally, I'll just let the photo do the talking, but in this case, the photo may not have portrayed what was seemingly going on. Anyway, again, thanks for taking the time to look and to comment, to you and everyone else who did so. cheers, frank "The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true." -J. Robert Oppenheimer From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PAW #6: Tough Boy Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 16:11:25 EST >In a message dated 3/20/2004 4:27:10 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >So I quite purposely put the photo up without the foregoing info, just to see how people reacted. For the most part, reactions were were what I would have expected. >thanks, frank I thought it might possibly be father and son. Father taking son to task for smoking or about to hug him. The "boy" looks almost young enough to still be hugged by Dad, when not acting tough that is. ;-) Interesting photo, frank. Not necessary to know history, really. Marnie aka Doe Unless it just makes it more interesting. _ Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get 2months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines
Re: PAW #6: Tough Boy
On Sat, 20 Mar 2004, frank theriault wrote: > I know both subjects. They know each other. The one with his face to > the camera, Taryn, is transgendered. He's had the hormornal treatment, > but not the surgical, and currently lives his life as a male. > > This photo was an attempt to capture that. Taryn really does try to > look the part of the "Tough Boy", but still comes across as "a boy", I > guess due to the lack of facial hair and baby face. That makes sense now. I suspect I was disturbed by the fact that the anonymous man on the left looked like he was about to embrace an ambiguously young boy, and the boy wasn't entirely opposed to that. > Now, Shel, knowing what you now know, what's your reaction to the photo? > Has it changed? If so, how? Do you (or anyone else) think the photo is > dishonest? I'm not sure about that last one, quite frankly. If it is > dishonest, does the title contribute to (or even cause) the dishonesty? Oscar Wilde would say, "There is no such thing as a moral or immoral photograph. Photographs are well made, or badly made. That is all." Also, "It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors." The photo is only dishonest in that it refuses to conform to whatever expectations and preconceived impressions we bring to it, and I can hardly fault it for that. chris
Re: PAW #6: Tough Boy
Hi Frank ... I felt, from the first look, that something was "askew" in the photo, something was not right, or perhaps being concealed. The fight/embrace thing came through pretty clearly, but again, it wasn't clear which was happening - one or the other. I figured embrace since I didn't think you'd be photographing if a fight was about to begin ... ;-)) I don't think the photo is "dishonest," nor do I think the title is particularly misleading. It could have been more neutral, but it's a minor point. Some vagueness about subject and intent in a photograph is a good thing. Everything need not be clear. shel frank theriault wrote: > > Hi, Shel, > > It sounds like, if nothing else, the photo touched a nerve, or provoked an > emotional response within you, which is what I like my photos to do. > > Okay, now that this has been up for a day or two, I'll come clean, and tell > you all what was going on here. > > This was taken at a party. I'd not be using a flash in a bar unless I knew > everyone (or at least most people) there - I figure that would be a good way > to get punched out quickly! > > I know both subjects. They know each other. The one with his face to the > camera, Taryn, is transgendered. He's had the hormornal treatment, but not > the surgical, and currently lives his life as a male. > > I'd normally not think it necessary make such information public, but for > two reasons. First, Taryn has no problem with it. Second, it's kind of > relevent to the image. Ever since the sex change, Taryn (who I knew before > the procedure commenced) has gone out of his way to be macho. The cropped > hair, the cigarette dangling out of the mouth (or in this case, thrust > upward), and the general body language are all Taryn's way of proclaiming > his "new-found masculinity" to the world. > > This photo was an attempt to capture that. Taryn really does try to look > the part of the "Tough Boy", but still comes across as "a boy", I guess due > to the lack of facial hair and baby face. > > I sort of thought that the photo looked ambiguous, not just due to Taryn, > but due to the other fellow, Fraser's body language as well. Are they > getting ready to fight? Are they getting ready to embrace? (I think they > were, actually). What does that almost unreadable expression on Taryn's > face mean? > > So I quite purposely put the photo up without the foregoing info, just to > see how people reacted. For the most part, reactions were were what I would > have expected. > > Now, Shel, knowing what you now know, what's your reaction to the photo? > Has it changed? If so, how? Do you (or anyone else) think the photo is > dishonest? I'm not sure about that last one, quite frankly. If it is > dishonest, does the title contribute to (or even cause) the dishonesty?
Re: PAW #6: Tough Boy
Hi, Shel, It sounds like, if nothing else, the photo touched a nerve, or provoked an emotional response within you, which is what I like my photos to do. Okay, now that this has been up for a day or two, I'll come clean, and tell you all what was going on here. This was taken at a party. I'd not be using a flash in a bar unless I knew everyone (or at least most people) there - I figure that would be a good way to get punched out quickly! I know both subjects. They know each other. The one with his face to the camera, Taryn, is transgendered. He's had the hormornal treatment, but not the surgical, and currently lives his life as a male. I'd normally not think it necessary make such information public, but for two reasons. First, Taryn has no problem with it. Second, it's kind of relevent to the image. Ever since the sex change, Taryn (who I knew before the procedure commenced) has gone out of his way to be macho. The cropped hair, the cigarette dangling out of the mouth (or in this case, thrust upward), and the general body language are all Taryn's way of proclaiming his "new-found masculinity" to the world. This photo was an attempt to capture that. Taryn really does try to look the part of the "Tough Boy", but still comes across as "a boy", I guess due to the lack of facial hair and baby face. I sort of thought that the photo looked ambiguous, not just due to Taryn, but due to the other fellow, Fraser's body language as well. Are they getting ready to fight? Are they getting ready to embrace? (I think they were, actually). What does that almost unreadable expression on Taryn's face mean? So I quite purposely put the photo up without the foregoing info, just to see how people reacted. For the most part, reactions were were what I would have expected. Now, Shel, knowing what you now know, what's your reaction to the photo? Has it changed? If so, how? Do you (or anyone else) think the photo is dishonest? I'm not sure about that last one, quite frankly. If it is dishonest, does the title contribute to (or even cause) the dishonesty? thanks, frank "The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true." -J. Robert Oppenheimer From: Shel Belinkoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PAW #6: Tough Boy Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:27:31 -0800 Hi Frank ... Not sure how I feel about this one. There are moments when I like it quite a bit, even though it is somewhat disturbing, and at other moments I just want to turn off the computer. I guess that means it's a good photo ... but damn, I can't figure out why I like it and dislike it at the same time. I'll have to view it again ... _ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines
Re: PAW #6: Tough Boy
Thanks, Mark, I have to admit that part of what I thought interesting about the shot is exactly that it's hard to tell exactly what's going on - there can be many interpretations, I think. The large cups in the foreground are actually just beer cups, the same size as the other one; the perspective of the 24mm lens just exaggerated them is all. Interesting thought about the big/small dichotomy, though. I like it. Thanks again. Glad you liked it. cheers, frank "The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true." -J. Robert Oppenheimer From: Mark Cassino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PAW #6: Tough Boy Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:14:42 -0500 Interesting shot, Frank - really draws me in. The boy seems to be staring down the big guy... or maybe something else is going on. It's engaging in that I formed a solid snap judgement about the scene but then second thoughts and new interpretations started creeping in. I like the designs in the cup and on the boy's shirt. The popcorn containers and the cup seem to subtly repeat the big guy / little guy motif. _ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines
Re: PAW #6: Tough Boy
Great shot! I like the expression as well as the balance you´ve obtained from the background and the things on the table. DagT På 19. mar. 2004 kl. 02.13 skrev frank theriault: Shooting from the hip. Uncropped I couldn't get the scan to come anywhere close to the print, for some reason. http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2215439 As always, comments are encouraged and appreciated. cheers, frank "The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true." -J. Robert Oppenheimer _ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/ prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/ enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines
RE: PAW #6: Tough Boy
> -Original Message- > From: frank theriault [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2215439 Great shot, Frank. It evokes another time...makes me think of West Side Story or something. :) Amita
Re: PAW #6: Tough Boy
Interesting shot, Frank - really draws me in. The boy seems to be staring down the big guy... or maybe something else is going on. It's engaging in that I formed a solid snap judgement about the scene but then second thoughts and new interpretations started creeping in. I like the designs in the cup and on the boy's shirt. The popcorn containers and the cup seem to subtly repeat the big guy / little guy motif. - MCC At 08:13 PM 3/18/2004 -0500, you wrote: Shooting from the hip. Uncropped I couldn't get the scan to come anywhere close to the print, for some reason. http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2215439 As always, comments are encouraged and appreciated. cheers, frank "The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true." -J. Robert Oppenheimer _ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines - Mark Cassino Photography Kalamazoo, MI http://www.markcassino.com -
Re: PAW #6: Tough Boy
Hi Frank ... Not sure how I feel about this one. There are moments when I like it quite a bit, even though it is somewhat disturbing, and at other moments I just want to turn off the computer. I guess that means it's a good photo ... but damn, I can't figure out why I like it and dislike it at the same time. I'll have to view it again ... shel frank theriault wrote: > > Shooting from the hip. Uncropped > > I couldn't get the scan to come anywhere close to the print, for some > reason. > > http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2215439 > > As always, comments are encouraged and appreciated.
Re: PAW #6: Tough Boy
I wondered about the flash, but then I thought, "No... frank wouldn't use a flash in a pub... how uncouth." :) So I charitably assumed that there must have been a bright light on a low ceiling just behind you, but now that you've admitted to using flash in a bar I guess the gig's up. But it's still a disturbing photo. I can't decide if they're going to embrace or fight. chris On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, frank theriault wrote: > Hi, Chris, > > Where to start? > > First of all, it wasn't available light, it was with a flash. That's why > shirt of the person on the left is so bright - it was the closest thing to > the camera (I was using a non-ttl flash on auto). > > Second of all, I wish the hand weren't behind the beer cup either. > > Third, there is lots of context here, but I'm going to tease you, and not > say anything for now, and just let the photo speak for itself. > > As far as the angle, well, I was actually "shooting from the hip", as I said > in the first post. The camera was down around my belt buckle, the zoom was > at 24mm, and I was just pointing in the general direction and shooting. > > Glad you found it interesting. Thanks for your thoughts. > > More, later. > > cheers, > frank > > "The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist > fears it is true." -J. Robert Oppenheimer > > > > > >From: Chris Brogden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Re: PAW #6: Tough Boy > >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:06:59 -0600 (Central Standard Time) > > > > > >Great expression on the boy's face, and I like the angle. The way the > >table emerges from the bottom of the frame really works for me. I don't > >like the way the other guy's right hand is hidden. I'm not sure what > >exactly is going on here, but the concealed hand is a bit disconcerting. > > > >That large expanse of white on the left is a bit distracting, and it would > >be nice if the boy's jacket didn't disappear into the background. That > >being said, you did an excellent job with the available light, and that > >weird metal thing on the wall is pretty cool, too. I just wish I could > >figure out what the context was. :) > > > >chris > > > > > >On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, frank theriault wrote: > > > > > Shooting from the hip. Uncropped > > > > > > I couldn't get the scan to come anywhere close to the print, for some > > > reason. > > > > > > http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2215439 > > > > > > As always, comments are encouraged and appreciated. > > > > > > cheers, > > > frank > > > > > > > > > > > > "The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The > >pessimist > > > fears it is true." -J. Robert Oppenheimer > > > > > > _ > > > > >http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > > > > > > > _ > MSN Premium with Virus Guard and Firewall* from McAfee® Security : 2 months > FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines >
Re: PAW #6: Tough Boy
Another great after hours shot Frank. I like what that Vivitar gives you. And if it makes you feel anybetter,i usually cant either.:-) Dave > On Mar 18, 2004, at 8:13 PM, frank theriault wrote: > > > Shooting from the hip. Uncropped > > > > I couldn't get the scan to come anywhere close to the print, for some > > reason. > > > > http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2215439 > > > > As always, comments are encouraged and appreciated. > > > > cheers, > > frank > > > > > > > > "The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The > > pessimist fears it is true." -J. Robert Oppenheimer > > > > _ > > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/ > > prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/ > > enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > > >
Re: PAW #6: Tough Boy
You make me blush, Paul. thanks, frank "The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true." -J. Robert Oppenheimer From: Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PAW #6: Tough Boy Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:21:57 -0500 Great shot, Frank. Reminds me of Diane Arbus' shots of Brooklyn teenagers. You're really doing some excellent work. Paul On Mar 18, 2004, at 8:13 PM, frank theriault wrote: Shooting from the hip. Uncropped I couldn't get the scan to come anywhere close to the print, for some reason. http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2215439 As always, comments are encouraged and appreciated. cheers, frank "The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true." -J. Robert Oppenheimer _ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/ prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/ enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines
Re: PAW #6: Tough Boy
Hi, Chris, Where to start? First of all, it wasn't available light, it was with a flash. That's why shirt of the person on the left is so bright - it was the closest thing to the camera (I was using a non-ttl flash on auto). Second of all, I wish the hand weren't behind the beer cup either. Third, there is lots of context here, but I'm going to tease you, and not say anything for now, and just let the photo speak for itself. As far as the angle, well, I was actually "shooting from the hip", as I said in the first post. The camera was down around my belt buckle, the zoom was at 24mm, and I was just pointing in the general direction and shooting. Glad you found it interesting. Thanks for your thoughts. More, later. cheers, frank "The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true." -J. Robert Oppenheimer From: Chris Brogden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: PAW #6: Tough Boy Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:06:59 -0600 (Central Standard Time) Great expression on the boy's face, and I like the angle. The way the table emerges from the bottom of the frame really works for me. I don't like the way the other guy's right hand is hidden. I'm not sure what exactly is going on here, but the concealed hand is a bit disconcerting. That large expanse of white on the left is a bit distracting, and it would be nice if the boy's jacket didn't disappear into the background. That being said, you did an excellent job with the available light, and that weird metal thing on the wall is pretty cool, too. I just wish I could figure out what the context was. :) chris On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, frank theriault wrote: > Shooting from the hip. Uncropped > > I couldn't get the scan to come anywhere close to the print, for some > reason. > > http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2215439 > > As always, comments are encouraged and appreciated. > > cheers, > frank > > > > "The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist > fears it is true." -J. Robert Oppenheimer > > _ > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > _ MSN Premium with Virus Guard and Firewall* from McAfee® Security : 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines
Re: PAW #6: Tough Boy
Great shot, Frank. Reminds me of Diane Arbus' shots of Brooklyn teenagers. You're really doing some excellent work. Paul On Mar 18, 2004, at 8:13 PM, frank theriault wrote: Shooting from the hip. Uncropped I couldn't get the scan to come anywhere close to the print, for some reason. http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2215439 As always, comments are encouraged and appreciated. cheers, frank "The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true." -J. Robert Oppenheimer _ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/ prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/ enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines
Re: PAW #6: Tough Boy
Great expression on the boy's face, and I like the angle. The way the table emerges from the bottom of the frame really works for me. I don't like the way the other guy's right hand is hidden. I'm not sure what exactly is going on here, but the concealed hand is a bit disconcerting. That large expanse of white on the left is a bit distracting, and it would be nice if the boy's jacket didn't disappear into the background. That being said, you did an excellent job with the available light, and that weird metal thing on the wall is pretty cool, too. I just wish I could figure out what the context was. :) chris On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, frank theriault wrote: > Shooting from the hip. Uncropped > > I couldn't get the scan to come anywhere close to the print, for some > reason. > > http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2215439 > > As always, comments are encouraged and appreciated. > > cheers, > frank > > > > "The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist > fears it is true." -J. Robert Oppenheimer > > _ > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines >
PAW #6: Tough Boy
Shooting from the hip. Uncropped I couldn't get the scan to come anywhere close to the print, for some reason. http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2215439 As always, comments are encouraged and appreciated. cheers, frank "The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true." -J. Robert Oppenheimer _ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines
