Re: Local Gas Prices
On May 4, 2006, at 2:51 AM, John Francis wrote: These guys have an interesting product: http://www.GlobalImagination.com/ They look really cool... I'd certainly like one. Can they be hooked into Google Earth? When I was at university (mid 90's) there was a guy working with a volumetric display system based on a spherical CRT with a spinning internal screen. I can't find much info on it anymore. They asked me to write some driver software for their SGI workstation but I turned it down because they had no budget (I also would have been in way over my head, but I was about the only person in the department who knew a bit of C). - Dave
Re: Local Gas Prices
On Tue, May 02, 2006 at 12:14:23PM -0700, Powell Hargrave wrote: On 2006-04-29 20:21, Bob W wrote: Sure. In that case, North America is tiny compared with Europe. As long as you forget everything except Maryland. Check the globe or an area-true map to compare north america vs. africa... - Martin I find a globe works well. Mine is stuck on cold war boundaries though. These guys have an interesting product: http://www.GlobalImagination.com/ Mind you, at prices ranging from the cost of a car to the cost of a house they're not exactly a casual purchase item. But if you want a globe that can update political boundaries when they change, this is the device for you. I'm currently working with them on a joint product proposal for Boeing's Customer Demo center - a high-end (48) version, with software (from me) that displays the position of every scheduled commercial flight, colour- coded by type of aircraft. I'm trying to finagle a freebie unit out of the deal - I think it would look really cool in my living room. This job is showing the occasional fringe benefit, nowadays. As I type I'm on the East coast, having been dragged out here for all-day meetings yesterday. While I'm here my notebook (which got a hard disk upgrade the last time I met my boss face-to-face) also got a memory upgrade to 1GB. Not only that - because they knew I really didn't enjoy taking three days out (two for travel, one for the meeting) I'm going home with a 10 DVD player to make the return flight more palatable. It can display JPEGs, too, so I'll be using it as a portable photo display device. Of course it's only TV resolution on the TFT display, so I'll only get the quality of a web page, but it's still better than many portable units. And the price was certainly right :-)
Re: Local Gas Prices
On 2006-04-30 12:13, graywolf wrote: Those numbers are pretty close to what I came up with for Canada, but not for the US. Maybe your numbers include all military bases, embassies, ships or ruled countries ;-) - Martin
Re: Local Gas Prices
On 2006-04-29 20:21, Bob W wrote: Sure. In that case, North America is tiny compared with Europe. As long as you forget everything except Maryland. Check the globe or an area-true map to compare north america vs. africa... Or check China or India vs. US Or check the density of inhabitants of China and Japan... ... or whatever you like. Any comparison may teach you more than you knew before ;-) - Martin
Re: Local Gas Prices
On 2006-04-29 20:21, Bob W wrote: Sure. In that case, North America is tiny compared with Europe. As long as you forget everything except Maryland. Check the globe or an area-true map to compare north america vs. africa... - Martin I find a globe works well. Mine is stuck on cold war boundaries though. Powell
Re: Local Gas Prices
Powell Hargrave wrote: On 2006-04-29 20:21, Bob W wrote: Sure. In that case, North America is tiny compared with Europe. As long as you forget everything except Maryland. Check the globe or an area-true map to compare north america vs. africa... - Martin I find a globe works well. Mine is stuck on cold war boundaries though. Powell Maybe it's time for a CLA.
Re: Local Gas Prices
- Original Message - From: Shel Belinkoff Subject: Re: Local Gas Prices Gallons of gas sold is only a part of such a company's profit picture. Profits are generated from other areas as well, including investments and refining. Almost 1/4 of their profits came from refining. For example, when they bought or contracted for crude @ $40.00 per barrel, and the price jumped to $60.00 per barrel, they did quite well. However, Exxon/Mobile did not control the price of crude - they just benefited from it. According to a report I heard Wednesday or Thursday, the percentage of profit made by Exxon/Mobile was about 7%, similar to the profit percentages of many other businesses. While I'm not being an apologist for the oil companies, their return on investment and profits - from a percentage standpoint - doesn't seem excessive. Actually, there are many companies in many other fields that generate larger profits in terms of percentage. Someone was making a simplistic statement about how much money they made, I was asking a simplistic question about how much product they sold to make that money. I asked because if you break it down to dollars made vs. gallons sold you will find that they don't have much margin to lower the price per gallon, which was intimated by another poster. Your reply confirms what I was implying. William Robb
Re: Local Gas Prices
On 29/4/06, graywolf, discombobulated, unleashed: For instance Canada is nowhere near as big as it looks on most maps. I understand they say the same thing about Bill... Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: Local Gas Prices
On Apr 30, 2006, at 1:29 AM, Bob W wrote: Unless somebody thinks of ideas that, to the majority, sound outrageous and ridiculous, nothing will ever change. From the end of one of the very few TV ads that I actually like... [...] the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do. - Dave
Re: Local Gas Prices
On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 02:23:23 +0100, Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Um, the oil companies can easily sell gas for far less than they're currently getting. Exxon profits are in the billion plus per quarter range. They will make the sacrifice when called upon. You omitted the smiley, Peter. John Of course Bush's cronies may lower gas prices 6 months before the election, and my opinion of the public's intelligence says they will forget by election time. That would require the aquisition of oil at less than the world PPB. Not sure how he would do that... William Robb -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Re: Local Gas Prices
On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 01:44:08 +0100, graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, spend trillions of dollars on infrastructure to save billions on gasoline. Europeans spent that kind money on mass trans portation because between 1945 and 1960 most of them were too poor to afford a private motor car. Notice that 88.5% of freight moved by highway figure in the UK in my other post. Actually, most of the railways were built before 1900. John And then you still won't be able to get where you need to be when you need to be there. Before that happens there will be a new government here. I will be willing to bet that he Republicans are going to lose their majority in 2008 solely due to gas prices. Of course Bush's cronies may lower gas prices 6 months before the election, and my opinion of the public's intelligence says they will forget by election time. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- Mishka wrote: that definitely explains why every other car on the hiways is an suv. i bet once gas prices get north of $5, the public transportation will get to european level quite quickly. best, mishka On 4/29/06, Bob Shell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I find that Europeans and people from the UK who have not been here generally just don't understand this about the USA. Things are far apart here, and for the most part we don't have transportation alternatives. Most of us don't have access to passenger train service. Bus service is very limited, and very slow. It's driving in our cars or not getting there. -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Re: Local Gas Prices
Yep Canada is only about 10 million square kilometers just 10% bigger than the US. And you are wrong, Cotty. Bill is at least as big as you. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- Cotty wrote: On 29/4/06, graywolf, discombobulated, unleashed: For instance Canada is nowhere near as big as it looks on most maps. I understand they say the same thing about Bill... Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: Local Gas Prices
On Apr 30, 2006, at 7:05 AM, graywolf wrote: Yep Canada is only about 10 million square kilometers just 10% bigger than the US. And you are wrong, Cotty. Bill is at least as big as you. USA is 9,631,418 square kilometers. Canada is 9, 976,410 square kilometers. That makes Canada 344,992 square kilometers larger. It's early for me to do math, but I think that makes Canada only about 3.5% bigger. I wonder if land area is customarily figured at low tide? Bob
RE: Local Gas Prices
For instance Canada is nowhere near as big as it looks on most maps. must be really tiny then, because on my map it's only about 6 inches coast-to-coast... -- Cheers, Bob
Re: Local Gas Prices
Maybe to the international border, (12 mile limit)? Bob Shell wrote: On Apr 30, 2006, at 7:05 AM, graywolf wrote: Yep Canada is only about 10 million square kilometers just 10% bigger than the US. And you are wrong, Cotty. Bill is at least as big as you. USA is 9,631,418 square kilometers. Canada is 9, 976,410 square kilometers. That makes Canada 344,992 square kilometers larger. It's early for me to do math, but I think that makes Canada only about 3.5% bigger. I wonder if land area is customarily figured at low tide? Bob -- When you're worried or in doubt, Run in circles, (scream and shout).
Re: Local Gas Prices
Maybe because of the production of polyester is a more complex than gas and the oil price has less effect? Anyway, without going into details of the earnings of oil companies it is a fact that Norway is making lots of money these days because of the price of crude oil, both through the state owned oil company and through tax on oil production. I can´t see why this should be very different for the oil companies who is pumping the oil up from the ground as long as the tax is the same (which it is). On the other hand, and back to one earlier question: Why should anyone in this international marked reduce the prices in one region for pure kindness? Crude oil goes to the highest bidder, and the costs of the resulting products will increase according to the part of the production costs that the crude oil price represents. It´s a free market and they have enough buyers. The only way to change that is to develop other solutions making us independent of oil, but I´m afraid the oil price will have to be a lot higher for that to happen. DagT Den 30. apr. 2006 kl. 13.03 skrev graywolf: That would be so if... If gasoline was the only product they got from a barrel of crude. If they had no tax deductions before reporting those profits. If... It is pretty much the way the Rolex Watches Company is. They give ALL their profits to charity (legally true). However the are family owned and family members hold all the board of directors seats and the board of directors are paid extremely well. Of course profits are what is left after the BOD is paid. Great publicity and it does not cost the owners a thing out of their pockets. Profits are what is left after you figure in every legally possible deduction. It is good business to leave that figure at a level that will attract investors, but no higher. But any good accountant will tell you that number is very adjustable as long as the business in actually (as opposed to legally) operating in the black. Many people seem to have a very simplistic idea of economics. If the price of crude goes up 10% the price of a pair of polyester slacks does not triple in a few days. Why not? They are made out of that same crude oil. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Shel Belinkoff Subject: Re: Local Gas Prices Gallons of gas sold is only a part of such a company's profit picture. Profits are generated from other areas as well, including investments and refining. Almost 1/4 of their profits came from refining. For example, when they bought or contracted for crude @ $40.00 per barrel, and the price jumped to $60.00 per barrel, they did quite well. However, Exxon/ Mobile did not control the price of crude - they just benefited from it. According to a report I heard Wednesday or Thursday, the percentage of profit made by Exxon/Mobile was about 7%, similar to the profit percentages of many other businesses. While I'm not being an apologist for the oil companies, their return on investment and profits - from a percentage standpoint - doesn't seem excessive. Actually, there are many companies in many other fields that generate larger profits in terms of percentage. Someone was making a simplistic statement about how much money they made, I was asking a simplistic question about how much product they sold to make that money. I asked because if you break it down to dollars made vs. gallons sold you will find that they don't have much margin to lower the price per gallon, which was intimated by another poster. Your reply confirms what I was implying. William Robb
Re: Local Gas Prices
Thesis plus antithesis equals synthesis. You both have valid points. Having driven transit in the 80's the busses were full during rush hours and practically empty the rest of the time. You have to run busses frequently enough to make them practical to use. My solution to that would be to use full sized busses for peak hours and van/ light truck based mini-busses for the rest of the time on routes that were not heavily used. I do agree that subways generally carry enough to make them effective. Air travel could probably benefit from some smaller, more fuel efficient turbo prop aircraft to service less popular runs. However, between government regulations and political concerns I doubt that many of the suggestions would be viable. My 2¢ Butch
Re: Local Gas Prices
Those numbers are pretty close to what I came up with for Canada, but not for the US. However I did not do an exhaustive search but just took the numbers from the first sight google came up with. Yes by the numbers I came up with it was actually only 7-8% bigger but I figured I would round it up to 10%, should have remembered I was posting to nit picking central. I suppose if I say the population of Canada is slightly greater than Rhode Island you guys will jump on me about exactly how much slightly is. GRIN! graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- P. J. Alling wrote: Maybe to the international border, (12 mile limit)? Bob Shell wrote: On Apr 30, 2006, at 7:05 AM, graywolf wrote: Yep Canada is only about 10 million square kilometers just 10% bigger than the US. And you are wrong, Cotty. Bill is at least as big as you. USA is 9,631,418 square kilometers. Canada is 9, 976,410 square kilometers. That makes Canada 344,992 square kilometers larger. It's early for me to do math, but I think that makes Canada only about 3.5% bigger. I wonder if land area is customarily figured at low tide? Bob
RE: Local gas prices
Thesis plus antithesis equals synthesis. You both have valid points. Having driven transit in the 80's the busses were full during rush hours and practically empty the rest of the time. You have to run busses frequently enough to make them practical to use. My solution to that would be to use full sized busses for peak hours and van/ light truck based mini-busses for the rest of the time on routes that were not heavily used. I do agree that subways generally carry enough to make them effective. Air travel could probably benefit from some smaller, more fuel efficient turbo prop aircraft to service less popular runs. However, between government regulations and political concerns I doubt that many of the suggestions would be viable. My 2¢ Butch On 4/28/06, graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What makes you think public transportation is more environmentally friendly than private? My only jet airliner trip had about 12 passengers on board. I figure that cost about 100 times as much for fuel per person as driving cars did. The concept that public transportation is cheaper is based upon the unfounded idea that it is always operation at capacity. In fact very little public transportation operates at more than 10% of capacity overall. After all it has to be sized to carry the rush hour traffic, but has to run all the time or it would not be a viable alternative at all. I have often noticed that Eco Freaks have a very strange concept of how economics work. Tom, I'm sure you know very well that when someone (in the context of conserving resources) they're likely talking about mass transit, rather than air transportation. You can throw all the numbers you want at me, but no one's going to tell me that a subway in a major city during rush hour doesn't save energy and reduce pollution, as compared to driving personal vehicles. Just imagine: in Toronto during rush hour, there's an average of 1000 passengers ~per train~. The trains come by on average every five minutes. That's a lot of cars ~not~ on the road. No matter what you may say about public transportation, public transit or mass transit in major urban centres must form an important part of any energy-saving, pollution-control plan, IMHO. cheers, frank
Re: Local Gas Prices
must be really tiny then, because on my map it's only about 6 inches coast-to-coast... To quote Coty - I understand they say the same thing about Bill... Kenneth Waller - Original Message - From: Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Local Gas Prices For instance Canada is nowhere near as big as it looks on most maps. must be really tiny then, because on my map it's only about 6 inches coast-to-coast... -- Cheers, Bob
Re: Local Gas Prices
On 30/4/06, Kenneth Waller, discombobulated, unleashed: must be really tiny then, because on my map it's only about 6 inches coast-to-coast... To quote Coty - I understand they say the same thing about Bill... I've got 12 inches but I never use it, as a rule. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: Local Gas Prices
Reminds me of the guy with an 11 inch head.. one more inch and it would be a foot. Kenneth Waller - Original Message - From: Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Local Gas Prices On 30/4/06, Kenneth Waller, discombobulated, unleashed: must be really tiny then, because on my map it's only about 6 inches coast-to-coast... To quote Coty - I understand they say the same thing about Bill... I've got 12 inches but I never use it, as a rule. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: Local Gas Prices
Kenneth Waller wrote: must be really tiny then, because on my map it's only about 6 inches coast-to-coast... To quote Coty - Is he on the war paint again? I understand they say the same thing about Bill... Kenneth Waller - Original Message - From: Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Local Gas Prices For instance Canada is nowhere near as big as it looks on most maps. must be really tiny then, because on my map it's only about 6 inches coast-to-coast... -- Cheers, Bob
Re: Local Gas Prices
Cotty wrote: I've got 12 inches but I never use it, as a rule. I knew a woman who had a foot fetish, but she'd settle for seven or eight inches. :-) -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ)
OT - Fuel Cells (was - Re: Local Gas Prices)
On 28/4/06, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: And put more effort and money into finding exploiting alternatives to petrol. Side note: filmed at Oxford University last week, watched as methane I think it was methane) was mixed with a catalyst to produce heat and clean steam - at room temperature! Watch as steam makes a come-back in 5 to 10 years. Also - methane (definitely methane this time) was mixed with a catalyst to produce pure hydrogen - at room temperature. Previously this could only be achieved with hundreds of degrees C of heat. The company with the patent on the catalysts is called Oxford Catalysts and floated on the London Stock Exchange last week to raise £15million to get going. Expect fuel cell technology to take off in a very large way over the coming few years. Prediction: in 10 years batteries will have gone the way of film! http://www.oxfordcatalysts.com/ Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
RE: OT - Fuel Cells (was - Re: Local Gas Prices)
And put more effort and money into finding exploiting alternatives to petrol. Side note: filmed at Oxford University last week, watched as methane I think it was methane) was mixed with a catalyst to produce heat and clean steam - at room temperature! Watch as steam makes a come-back in 5 to 10 years. Also - methane (definitely methane this time) was mixed with a catalyst to produce pure hydrogen - at room temperature. Previously this could only be achieved with hundreds of degrees C of heat. jolly good. [...] Expect fuel cell technology to take off in a very large way over the coming few years. Prediction: in 10 years batteries will have gone the way of film! you mean they'll all be in my fridge? I don't have room! http://www.oxfordcatalysts.com/
Re: Local Gas Prices
I do understand the wider consequences of rising fuel prices; I just wish that our society hadn't become so dependent on the stuff. To be honest I'm far more concerned about the effects of rising property prices, but this thread is OT enough already. - Dave On Apr 29, 2006, at 1:56 AM, Shel Belinkoff wrote: That's a very short-sighted point of view. Higher fuel prices effect just about every aspect of your life, from the cost of basic foods to home services. Most everything is transported somehow, and the cost of fuel is a major factor in the rising cost of goods, as manufacturers and distributors raise their prices to accommodate the higher fuel costs and try to maintain their profit. Shel [Original Message] From: David Mann NZ$1.70 a litre for 91. It seems to go up on a weekly basis now, but being predominantly pedal-powered I find it difficult to care.
Re: Local Gas Prices
You me both. Dave S. On 4/29/06, David Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To be honest I'm far more concerned about the effects of rising property prices, but this thread is OT enough already. - Dave
Re: Local Gas Prices
On Apr 28, 2006, at 12:23 AM, John Mullan wrote: take a gander at this page. http://www.gasbuddy.com/gb_gastemperaturemap.aspx Looks like Wyoming is the place to live. You'd think gas prices would be somehow related to proximity to refineries, but I don't recall any oil refineries in Wyoming. Too bad it doesn't show how much of the price is taxes. Bob
Re: Local Gas Prices
On Apr 28, 2006, at 6:59 AM, Paul Stenquist wrote: The best price in the Detroit area is now around $2.89/ gallon. When I started driving in 1964, gas was less than 0.30 per gallon in most places. I can well remember storming away from a gas station in outrage back in the 70s, saying, it will be a cold day in hell when I pay fifty cents for a gallon of gas!! A, the good old days. Bob
Re: Local Gas Prices
On Apr 28, 2006, at 10:45 AM, Martin Trautmann wrote: Apart from ships dedicated e.g. to south american orange juice (I don't know what they transport backwards), Probably insecticide to spray on the orange trees. Bob
Re: Local Gas Prices
On Apr 28, 2006, at 11:16 AM, graywolf wrote: Unfortunately in 99% of the US today an automobile is a necessity not a luxury. That said, do not believe that price does not affect gas usage. I find that Europeans and people from the UK who have not been here generally just don't understand this about the USA. Things are far apart here, and for the most part we don't have transportation alternatives. Most of us don't have access to passenger train service. Bus service is very limited, and very slow. It's driving in our cars or not getting there. I had some friends from Germany who were coming to New York on holiday and they thought they would just pop down one day to visit me in Virginia while they were here. Once they realized how long it would take to get here that plan evaporated. Bob
RE: Local Gas Prices
Unfortunately in 99% of the US today an automobile is a necessity not a luxury. That said, do not believe that price does not affect gas usage. I find that Europeans and people from the UK who have not been here generally just don't understand this about the USA. Things are far apart here, and for the most part we don't have transportation alternatives. Most of us don't have access to passenger train service. Bus service is very limited, and very slow. It's driving in our cars or not getting there. but that's because you guys have arranged it that way. You can unarrange it by building better railroads and improved buses. And move your cities a bit closer together... That reminds me of an American gentleman I met in Munich many, many years ago. He had not been in Europe since WWII. I asked him what he thought were the main differences between Europe and the US. He said Well, your cities are so close together. Bob
RE: Local Gas Prices
I find that Europeans and people from the UK we're Europeans too! Bob
Re: Local Gas Prices
On Apr 29, 2006, at 8:20 AM, Bob W wrote: but that's because you guys have arranged it that way. You can unarrange it by building better railroads and improved buses. And move your cities a bit closer together... That reminds me of an American gentleman I met in Munich many, many years ago. He had not been in Europe since WWII. I asked him what he thought were the main differences between Europe and the US. He said Well, your cities are so close together. We could move New Orleans in between Baltimore and NYC, I suppose. Bob
RE: Local Gas Prices
Bob Shell wrote: I find that Europeans and people from the UK who have not been here generally just don't understand this about the USA. Things are far apart here, and for the most part we don't have transportation alternatives. You're right on the whole. I've had maps out in the past to point this out to some folk (making the point about the map showing the same scale for each country) who wanted to make a motoring tour of the USA in a short breakI now nod and agree, it's much simpler and let them find out on arrival. Malcolm PS - What really gets to me is when they return and say 'You wouldn't believe how big it is'. Aaaargh!
Re: Local Gas Prices
On Apr 29, 2006, at 8:20 AM, Bob W wrote: And move your cities a bit closer together... Lets attempt to come up with realistic ideas. William Robb
Re: Local Gas Prices
- Original Message - From: Malcolm Smith Subject: RE: Local Gas Prices I find that Europeans and people from the UK who have not been here generally just don't understand this about the USA. Things are far apart here, and for the most part we don't have transportation alternatives. You're right on the whole. I've had maps out in the past to point this out to some folk (making the point about the map showing the same scale for each country) who wanted to make a motoring tour of the USA in a short breakI now nod and agree, it's much simpler and let them find out on arrival. A friend of ours had a fellow from England over for a visit. He decided he wanted to see a bit of the countryside, so we took a short drive in the country, perhaps 4 hours at highway speeds (100kph). When we got home, he wanted to see how much of Canada we had traversed, and was rather shocked at how little he had seen when I showed him on a map where we had gone. William Robb
RE: Local Gas Prices
William Robb wrote: And move your cities a bit closer together... Lets attempt to come up with realistic ideas. Over here the expansion of cities is making that a reality. Malcolm
RE: Local Gas Prices
William Robb wrote: A friend of ours had a fellow from England over for a visit. He decided he wanted to see a bit of the countryside, so we took a short drive in the country, perhaps 4 hours at highway speeds (100kph). When we got home, he wanted to see how much of Canada we had traversed, and was rather shocked at how little he had seen when I showed him on a map where we had gone. I know :-( One of my friends was looking for a piece of radio gear he was looking for, which he found on eBay. He'd spent years looking for it and it was going for pennies. I found out he didn't bid on it, because the seller wouldn't post it. He thought the round trip of 60 miles was too far to go. I rest my case. Malcolm
Re: Local Gas Prices
But then those cities would be in danger of being hit by hurricanes. BTW I had this friend who had the solution. He figured that you could move all the people in North America into high rise apartments on Long Island. Then the deer and the bear would have the rest of the continent to themselves. The worse part of it was that he did not think it was a stupid idea, he thought people were too stupid to do it; but then he dropped out of a thermodynamics class because the others in it kept laughing at his perpetual-motion ideas. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- Bob Shell wrote: On Apr 29, 2006, at 8:20 AM, Bob W wrote: but that's because you guys have arranged it that way. You can unarrange it by building better railroads and improved buses. And move your cities a bit closer together... That reminds me of an American gentleman I met in Munich many, many years ago. He had not been in Europe since WWII. I asked him what he thought were the main differences between Europe and the US. He said Well, your cities are so close together. We could move New Orleans in between Baltimore and NYC, I suppose. Bob --No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/326 - Release Date: 4/27/2006
Re: Local Gas Prices
What really is shocking is when you look on a globe and see what a tiny place Europe is. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Malcolm Smith Subject: RE: Local Gas Prices I find that Europeans and people from the UK who have not been here generally just don't understand this about the USA. Things are far apart here, and for the most part we don't have transportation alternatives. You're right on the whole. I've had maps out in the past to point this out to some folk (making the point about the map showing the same scale for each country) who wanted to make a motoring tour of the USA in a short breakI now nod and agree, it's much simpler and let them find out on arrival. A friend of ours had a fellow from England over for a visit. He decided he wanted to see a bit of the countryside, so we took a short drive in the country, perhaps 4 hours at highway speeds (100kph). When we got home, he wanted to see how much of Canada we had traversed, and was rather shocked at how little he had seen when I showed him on a map where we had gone. William Robb
Re: OT - Fuel Cells (was - Re: Local Gas Prices)
A hardy laugh is a good way to start the day. Thanks, Bob. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- Bob W wrote: [...] Expect fuel cell technology to take off in a very large way over the coming few years. Prediction: in 10 years batteries will have gone the way of film! you mean they'll all be in my fridge? I don't have room!
Re: Local Gas Prices
On Apr 29, 2006, at 8:23 AM, Bob W wrote: I find that Europeans and people from the UK we're Europeans too! Some of my UK friends bristle if called European, so I always try to make the distinction. Bob
Re: OT - Fuel Cells (was - Re: Local Gas Prices)
And they will get the methane by cracking petroleum. I get a rather grand sense of deja vu from this report, Cotty. How many times over the years have I heard that same story? There is a miracle break through every few years and that is the last you hear of that. As long as you can just pump petroleum out of the ground nothing else will be able to compete with it. What does it actually cost to get petroleum out of the ground? A penny a gallon*, or is that too high a figure? All the rest of the price you pay is transportation, taxes, and profits. *yes I am aware that it takes several gallons of raw petroleum to make a gallon of gasoline, but you get other usable stuff out of the left overs. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- Cotty wrote: On 28/4/06, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: And put more effort and money into finding exploiting alternatives to petrol. Side note: filmed at Oxford University last week, watched as methane I think it was methane) was mixed with a catalyst to produce heat and clean steam - at room temperature! Watch as steam makes a come-back in 5 to 10 years. Also - methane (definitely methane this time) was mixed with a catalyst to produce pure hydrogen - at room temperature. Previously this could only be achieved with hundreds of degrees C of heat. The company with the patent on the catalysts is called Oxford Catalysts and floated on the London Stock Exchange last week to raise £15million to get going. Expect fuel cell technology to take off in a very large way over the coming few years. Prediction: in 10 years batteries will have gone the way of film! http://www.oxfordcatalysts.com/ Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
RE: Local Gas Prices
sounds like rather a good idea to me. Unless somebody thinks of ideas that, to the majority, sound outrageous and ridiculous, nothing will ever change. You can bet your life that when the first Cro-Magnon suggested using cast-off slithers of hand-axe flints as blades there were a hundred other Cro-Magnons pointing and laughing at him for such a stupid idea. -- Cheers, Bob -Original Message- From: graywolf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 April 2006 13:43 To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: Local Gas Prices But then those cities would be in danger of being hit by hurricanes. BTW I had this friend who had the solution. He figured that you could move all the people in North America into high rise apartments on Long Island. Then the deer and the bear would have the rest of the continent to themselves. The worse part of it was that he did not think it was a stupid idea, he thought people were too stupid to do it; but then he dropped out of a thermodynamics class because the others in it kept laughing at his perpetual-motion ideas. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- Bob Shell wrote: On Apr 29, 2006, at 8:20 AM, Bob W wrote: but that's because you guys have arranged it that way. You can unarrange it by building better railroads and improved buses. And move your cities a bit closer together... That reminds me of an American gentleman I met in Munich many, many years ago. He had not been in Europe since WWII. I asked him what he thought were the main differences between Europe and the US. He said Well, your cities are so close together. We could move New Orleans in between Baltimore and NYC, I suppose. Bob --No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/326 - Release Date: 4/27/2006
RE: Local Gas Prices
don't go confusing Europe and the European Union. Europe stretches from the Urals to the Atlantic, and is much larger than North America. The European Union occupies a remote peninsula on the westernmost tip of Europe. -- Cheers, Bob -Original Message- From: graywolf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 April 2006 14:00 To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: Local Gas Prices What really is shocking is when you look on a globe and see what a tiny place Europe is. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof ---
RE: Local Gas Prices
Correction: it's not larger - I just looked at a map. I was thinking of the whole Eurasian landmass. Still, Europe is not small compared with N. America. -- Cheers, Bob -Original Message- From: Bob W [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 April 2006 14:34 To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: RE: Local Gas Prices don't go confusing Europe and the European Union. Europe stretches from the Urals to the Atlantic, and is much larger than North America. The European Union occupies a remote peninsula on the westernmost tip of Europe. -- Cheers, Bob -Original Message- From: graywolf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 April 2006 14:00 To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: Local Gas Prices What really is shocking is when you look on a globe and see what a tiny place Europe is. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof ---
Re: Local Gas Prices
Den 29. apr. 2006 kl. 14.20 skrev Bob W: Unfortunately in 99% of the US today an automobile is a necessity not a luxury. That said, do not believe that price does not affect gas usage. I find that Europeans and people from the UK who have not been here generally just don't understand this about the USA. Things are far apart here, and for the most part we don't have transportation alternatives. Most of us don't have access to passenger train service. Bus service is very limited, and very slow. It's driving in our cars or not getting there. but that's because you guys have arranged it that way. You can unarrange it by building better railroads and improved buses. And move your cities a bit closer together... That reminds me of an American gentleman I met in Munich many, many years ago. He had not been in Europe since WWII. I asked him what he thought were the main differences between Europe and the US. He said Well, your cities are so close together. The daily transport problem is simply a result of people living too far from their jobs. It should have been solved by better city planning .-) DagT
Re: Local Gas Prices
Den 29. apr. 2006 kl. 14.30 skrev William Robb: - Original Message - From: Malcolm Smith Subject: RE: Local Gas Prices I find that Europeans and people from the UK who have not been here generally just don't understand this about the USA. Things are far apart here, and for the most part we don't have transportation alternatives. You're right on the whole. I've had maps out in the past to point this out to some folk (making the point about the map showing the same scale for each country) who wanted to make a motoring tour of the USA in a short breakI now nod and agree, it's much simpler and let them find out on arrival. A friend of ours had a fellow from England over for a visit. He decided he wanted to see a bit of the countryside, so we took a short drive in the country, perhaps 4 hours at highway speeds (100kph). When we got home, he wanted to see how much of Canada we had traversed, and was rather shocked at how little he had seen when I showed him on a map where we had gone. We have the same problem here. Because of the landscape it takes several days to drive from Oslo to the far north. Actually it´s about the same distance as from Oslo to Rome, but on much worse roads. DagT
Re: Local Gas Prices
Many American cities are close together. If you count the suburbs where commuters live, New York and Philadelphia almost touch. Ditto New York and Boston. But that's beside the point. Part of the American psyche depends heavily on mobility and freedom of movement. Before we solve the problem of how to live closer to the things we need and want, we will undoubtedly solve the problem of how to travel at a reasonable cost. The same can probably be said for Canadians. What's more, today's crude prices are partly the result of investor speculation. As the global situation changes, they could fall through the bottom once again. A six month spike in prices does not necessarily a crisis make. Paul On Apr 29, 2006, at 8:34 AM, Malcolm Smith wrote: William Robb wrote: And move your cities a bit closer together... Lets attempt to come up with realistic ideas. Over here the expansion of cities is making that a reality. Malcolm
RE: Local Gas Prices
Yes, let's all get together and move Chicago to just outside of New York All together now ... 1-2-3 PUSH! LOL Shel [Original Message] From: Bob W And move your cities a bit closer together...
Re: Local Gas Prices
Den 29. apr. 2006 kl. 15.11 skrev Bob Shell: On Apr 29, 2006, at 8:23 AM, Bob W wrote: I find that Europeans and people from the UK we're Europeans too! Some of my UK friends bristle if called European, so I always try to make the distinction. From an English newspaper: Storm in the English Channel, the Continent is isolated DagT
Re: OT - Fuel Cells (was - Re: Local Gas Prices)
There are a couple of problems with this, I don't expect that steam will make a comeback, as direct to electricity is more convenient. Then there's the waste CO(2) from using methane. I don't see it as a problem but the global warming fanatics will. Cotty wrote: On 28/4/06, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: And put more effort and money into finding exploiting alternatives to petrol. Side note: filmed at Oxford University last week, watched as methane I think it was methane) was mixed with a catalyst to produce heat and clean steam - at room temperature! Watch as steam makes a come-back in 5 to 10 years. Also - methane (definitely methane this time) was mixed with a catalyst to produce pure hydrogen - at room temperature. Previously this could only be achieved with hundreds of degrees C of heat. The company with the patent on the catalysts is called Oxford Catalysts and floated on the London Stock Exchange last week to raise £15million to get going. Expect fuel cell technology to take off in a very large way over the coming few years. Prediction: in 10 years batteries will have gone the way of film! http://www.oxfordcatalysts.com/ Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- When you're worried or in doubt, Run in circles, (scream and shout).
Re: Re: OT - Fuel Cells (was - Re: Local Gas Prices)
From: P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2006/04/29 Sat PM 03:34:59 GMT To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: OT - Fuel Cells (was - Re: Local Gas Prices) There are a couple of problems with this, I don't expect that steam will make a comeback, as direct to electricity is more convenient. Then there's the waste CO(2) from using methane. I don't see it as a problem but the global warming fanatics will. I can't wait to see the newest digital camera. With a steam vent. Can you imagine the liabilty issues? Cotty wrote: On 28/4/06, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: And put more effort and money into finding exploiting alternatives to petrol. Side note: filmed at Oxford University last week, watched as methane I think it was methane) was mixed with a catalyst to produce heat and clean steam - at room temperature! Watch as steam makes a come-back in 5 to 10 years. Also - methane (definitely methane this time) was mixed with a catalyst to produce pure hydrogen - at room temperature. Previously this could only be achieved with hundreds of degrees C of heat. The company with the patent on the catalysts is called Oxford Catalysts and floated on the London Stock Exchange last week to raise £15million to get going. Expect fuel cell technology to take off in a very large way over the coming few years. Prediction: in 10 years batteries will have gone the way of film! http://www.oxfordcatalysts.com/ Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- When you're worried or in doubt, Run in circles, (scream and shout). - Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information
Re: Local Gas Prices
Bob W wrote: Unfortunately in 99% of the US today an automobile is a necessity not a luxury. That said, do not believe that price does not affect gas usage. I find that Europeans and people from the UK who have not been here generally just don't understand this about the USA. Things are far apart here, and for the most part we don't have transportation alternatives. Most of us don't have access to passenger train service. Bus service is very limited, and very slow. It's driving in our cars or not getting there. but that's because you guys have arranged it that way. You can unarrange it by building better railroads and improved buses. And move your cities a bit closer together... That reminds me of an American gentleman I met in Munich many, many years ago. He had not been in Europe since WWII. I asked him what he thought were the main differences between Europe and the US. He said Well, your cities are so close together. Bob No, it's because Europe is tiny compared to North America but has a similar population. Population density permits your wonderful transit systems. Pretty much all of Europe from the Russian Border west could fit in Ontario alone. Ontario is about 9 million people, but takes north of 24 hours to drive across the long way. We simply don't have the population density outside of the Northeast Corridor, Southern California, NYC and the GTA to be able to build european-style mass transit. And those areas have it already. Some of our cities are larger than some european countries, and I'm not talking Monaco. Outside of the few high-density areas, it's not unusual for people to live several hours drive from town and even further from an actual city. Last I checked, the King Ranch in Texas itself was around the size of Lichtenstein. -Adam
Re: Local Gas Prices
Forget Russia and it is. In fact it's smaller than 2 Canadian Provinces (Quebec, if you count north-south vs. east-west, and Ontario) -Adam Bob W wrote: Correction: it's not larger - I just looked at a map. I was thinking of the whole Eurasian landmass. Still, Europe is not small compared with N. America. -- Cheers, Bob -Original Message- From: Bob W [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 April 2006 14:34 To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: RE: Local Gas Prices don't go confusing Europe and the European Union. Europe stretches from the Urals to the Atlantic, and is much larger than North America. The European Union occupies a remote peninsula on the westernmost tip of Europe. -- Cheers, Bob -Original Message- From: graywolf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 April 2006 14:00 To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: Local Gas Prices What really is shocking is when you look on a globe and see what a tiny place Europe is. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof ---
Re: Local Gas Prices
Think taxes, in NYC the combined state local and federal taxes are approaching $1.00 per gallon. In Wyoming the state and local taxes are pretty much non existent. Bob Shell wrote: On Apr 28, 2006, at 12:23 AM, John Mullan wrote: take a gander at this page. http://www.gasbuddy.com/gb_gastemperaturemap.aspx Looks like Wyoming is the place to live. You'd think gas prices would be somehow related to proximity to refineries, but I don't recall any oil refineries in Wyoming. Too bad it doesn't show how much of the price is taxes. Bob -- When you're worried or in doubt, Run in circles, (scream and shout).
Re: Local Gas Prices
Sounds so reasonable now... Bob Shell wrote: On Apr 29, 2006, at 8:20 AM, Bob W wrote: but that's because you guys have arranged it that way. You can unarrange it by building better railroads and improved buses. And move your cities a bit closer together... That reminds me of an American gentleman I met in Munich many, many years ago. He had not been in Europe since WWII. I asked him what he thought were the main differences between Europe and the US. He said Well, your cities are so close together. We could move New Orleans in between Baltimore and NYC, I suppose. Bob -- When you're worried or in doubt, Run in circles, (scream and shout).
Re: Local Gas Prices
Not all of you agree on that... Bob W wrote: I find that Europeans and people from the UK we're Europeans too! Bob -- When you're worried or in doubt, Run in circles, (scream and shout).
Re: Local Gas Prices
In that case you're Americans, if I remember my Plate tectonics Brittan is on the North American plate... Bob W wrote: don't go confusing Europe and the European Union. Europe stretches from the Urals to the Atlantic, and is much larger than North America. The European Union occupies a remote peninsula on the westernmost tip of Europe. -- Cheers, Bob -Original Message- From: graywolf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 April 2006 14:00 To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: Local Gas Prices What really is shocking is when you look on a globe and see what a tiny place Europe is. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- -- When you're worried or in doubt, Run in circles, (scream and shout).
Re: Local Gas Prices
Another example to show the comparative size of the US: I live in California, in the San Francisco Bay area - one of the more densely populated regions of the USA. There was an article in the paper yesterday about a guy who wanted to live out in the rural areas, where he could afford several acres of land (this is a guy who is earning a high-tech salary). He ended up with a daily commute round trip of over 350 miles.
Re: Local Gas Prices
I agree, but around here there is a bright side: Even if fuel prices are increasing the larger effect is that Norway as a country earns a lot of money. Our pensions are secured .-) The smart thing to do for the future is to develop alternatives, find other ways to produce fuel. DagT Den 29. apr. 2006 kl. 11.07 skrev David Mann: I do understand the wider consequences of rising fuel prices; I just wish that our society hadn't become so dependent on the stuff. To be honest I'm far more concerned about the effects of rising property prices, but this thread is OT enough already. - Dave On Apr 29, 2006, at 1:56 AM, Shel Belinkoff wrote: That's a very short-sighted point of view. Higher fuel prices effect just about every aspect of your life, from the cost of basic foods to home services. Most everything is transported somehow, and the cost of fuel is a major factor in the rising cost of goods, as manufacturers and distributors raise their prices to accommodate the higher fuel costs and try to maintain their profit. Shel [Original Message] From: David Mann NZ$1.70 a litre for 91. It seems to go up on a weekly basis now, but being predominantly pedal-powered I find it difficult to care.
Re: OT - Fuel Cells (was - Re: Local Gas Prices)
High speed micro turbine electricity generation. Waste heat is enormous... mike wilson wrote: From: P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2006/04/29 Sat PM 03:34:59 GMT To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: OT - Fuel Cells (was - Re: Local Gas Prices) There are a couple of problems with this, I don't expect that steam will make a comeback, as direct to electricity is more convenient. Then there's the waste CO(2) from using methane. I don't see it as a problem but the global warming fanatics will. I can't wait to see the newest digital camera. With a steam vent. Can you imagine the liabilty issues? Cotty wrote: On 28/4/06, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: And put more effort and money into finding exploiting alternatives to petrol. Side note: filmed at Oxford University last week, watched as methane I think it was methane) was mixed with a catalyst to produce heat and clean steam - at room temperature! Watch as steam makes a come-back in 5 to 10 years. Also - methane (definitely methane this time) was mixed with a catalyst to produce pure hydrogen - at room temperature. Previously this could only be achieved with hundreds of degrees C of heat. The company with the patent on the catalysts is called Oxford Catalysts and floated on the London Stock Exchange last week to raise £15million to get going. Expect fuel cell technology to take off in a very large way over the coming few years. Prediction: in 10 years batteries will have gone the way of film! http://www.oxfordcatalysts.com/ Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- When you're worried or in doubt, Run in circles, (scream and shout). - Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information -- When you're worried or in doubt, Run in circles, (scream and shout).
Re: Local Gas Prices
From what I have seen of European cities in movies, we do not have traffic congestion problems here in the US anyway. This may be one of those pot and kettle discussions. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- DagT wrote: Den 29. apr. 2006 kl. 14.20 skrev Bob W: Unfortunately in 99% of the US today an automobile is a necessity not a luxury. That said, do not believe that price does not affect gas usage. I find that Europeans and people from the UK who have not been here generally just don't understand this about the USA. Things are far apart here, and for the most part we don't have transportation alternatives. Most of us don't have access to passenger train service. Bus service is very limited, and very slow. It's driving in our cars or not getting there. but that's because you guys have arranged it that way. You can unarrange it by building better railroads and improved buses. And move your cities a bit closer together... That reminds me of an American gentleman I met in Munich many, many years ago. He had not been in Europe since WWII. I asked him what he thought were the main differences between Europe and the US. He said Well, your cities are so close together. The daily transport problem is simply a result of people living too far from their jobs. It should have been solved by better city planning .-) DagT --No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/327 - Release Date: 4/28/2006
Re: Local Gas Prices
On Apr 29, 2006, at 12:20 PM, P. J. Alling wrote: Think taxes, in NYC the combined state local and federal taxes are approaching $1.00 per gallon. In Wyoming the state and local taxes are pretty much non existent. Sounds like a good reason to move out there. Bob
Re: Re: Local Gas Prices
From: graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2006/04/29 Sat PM 05:17:45 GMT To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: Local Gas Prices From what I have seen of European cities in movies, we do not have traffic congestion problems here in the US anyway. This may be one of those pot and kettle discussions. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- ??? About 10years ago, I went to a talk about global pollution issues. The speaker explained that, at that point, there were more cars in Greater LA than in Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand and China combined. Must be a bg place. DagT wrote: Den 29. apr. 2006 kl. 14.20 skrev Bob W: Unfortunately in 99% of the US today an automobile is a necessity not a luxury. That said, do not believe that price does not affect gas usage. I find that Europeans and people from the UK who have not been here generally just don't understand this about the USA. Things are far apart here, and for the most part we don't have transportation alternatives. Most of us don't have access to passenger train service. Bus service is very limited, and very slow. It's driving in our cars or not getting there. but that's because you guys have arranged it that way. You can unarrange it by building better railroads and improved buses. And move your cities a bit closer together... That reminds me of an American gentleman I met in Munich many, many years ago. He had not been in Europe since WWII. I asked him what he thought were the main differences between Europe and the US. He said Well, your cities are so close together. The daily transport problem is simply a result of people living too far from their jobs. It should have been solved by better city planning .-) DagT --No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/327 - Release Date: 4/28/2006 - Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information
Re: Local Gas Prices
and they're all on the 110 at the same time... mike wilson wrote: From: graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2006/04/29 Sat PM 05:17:45 GMT To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: Local Gas Prices From what I have seen of European cities in movies, we do not have traffic congestion problems here in the US anyway. This may be one of those pot and kettle discussions. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- ??? About 10years ago, I went to a talk about global pollution issues. The speaker explained that, at that point, there were more cars in Greater LA than in Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand and China combined. Must be a bg place. DagT wrote: Den 29. apr. 2006 kl. 14.20 skrev Bob W: Unfortunately in 99% of the US today an automobile is a necessity not a luxury. That said, do not believe that price does not affect gas usage. I find that Europeans and people from the UK who have not been here generally just don't understand this about the USA. Things are far apart here, and for the most part we don't have transportation alternatives. Most of us don't have access to passenger train service. Bus service is very limited, and very slow. It's driving in our cars or not getting there. but that's because you guys have arranged it that way. You can unarrange it by building better railroads and improved buses. And move your cities a bit closer together... That reminds me of an American gentleman I met in Munich many, many years ago. He had not been in Europe since WWII. I asked him what he thought were the main differences between Europe and the US. He said Well, your cities are so close together. The daily transport problem is simply a result of people living too far from their jobs. It should have been solved by better city planning .-) DagT --No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.1/327 - Release Date: 4/28/2006 - Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information -- When you're worried or in doubt, Run in circles, (scream and shout).
RE: Local Gas Prices
Sure. In that case, North America is tiny compared with Europe. As long as you forget everything except Maryland. -- Cheers, Bob -Original Message- From: Adam Maas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 April 2006 16:44 To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: Local Gas Prices Forget Russia and it is. In fact it's smaller than 2 Canadian Provinces (Quebec, if you count north-south vs. east-west, and Ontario) -Adam Bob W wrote: Correction: it's not larger - I just looked at a map. I was thinking of the whole Eurasian landmass. Still, Europe is not small compared with N. America. -- Cheers, Bob -Original Message- From: Bob W [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 April 2006 14:34 To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: RE: Local Gas Prices don't go confusing Europe and the European Union. Europe stretches from the Urals to the Atlantic, and is much larger than North America. The European Union occupies a remote peninsula on the westernmost tip of Europe. -- Cheers, Bob -Original Message- From: graywolf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 April 2006 14:00 To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: Local Gas Prices What really is shocking is when you look on a globe and see what a tiny place Europe is. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof ---
RE: Local Gas Prices
Those who disagree with me will be given a fair trial, then shot, in the interests of democracy. -- Cheers, Bob -Original Message- From: P. J. Alling [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 April 2006 17:34 To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: Local Gas Prices Not all of you agree on that... Bob W wrote: I find that Europeans and people from the UK we're Europeans too! Bob
RE: Local Gas Prices
Only Scotlandshire, and you're welcome to it. -- Cheers, Bob -Original Message- From: P. J. Alling [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 April 2006 17:41 To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: Local Gas Prices In that case you're Americans, if I remember my Plate tectonics Brittan is on the North American plate... Bob W wrote: don't go confusing Europe and the European Union. Europe stretches from the Urals to the Atlantic, and is much larger than North America. The European Union occupies a remote peninsula on the westernmost tip of Europe.
RE: Re: Local Gas Prices
I've been to LA. Guess what? There was a lot of traffic (except when they cleared the freeway for the President). On the other hand, I've also been to Winston Salem on a Sunday. No traffic. But they still don't let you jaywalk. -- Cheers, Bob -Original Message- From: mike wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 April 2006 18:54 To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: Re: Local Gas Prices From: graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2006/04/29 Sat PM 05:17:45 GMT To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: Local Gas Prices From what I have seen of European cities in movies, we do not have traffic congestion problems here in the US anyway. This may be one of those pot and kettle discussions. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- ??? About 10years ago, I went to a talk about global pollution issues. The speaker explained that, at that point, there were more cars in Greater LA than in Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand and China combined. Must be a bg place.
Re: Local Gas Prices
that definitely explains why every other car on the hiways is an suv. i bet once gas prices get north of $5, the public transportation will get to european level quite quickly. best, mishka On 4/29/06, Bob Shell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I find that Europeans and people from the UK who have not been here generally just don't understand this about the USA. Things are far apart here, and for the most part we don't have transportation alternatives. Most of us don't have access to passenger train service. Bus service is very limited, and very slow. It's driving in our cars or not getting there.
Re: Local Gas Prices
too late for that mishka We could move New Orleans in between Baltimore and NYC, I suppose. Bob
Re: Local Gas Prices
the daily comute to work to NYC iwould become a killer for me. i'd rather pay for gas. best, mishka On 4/29/06, Bob Shell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 29, 2006, at 12:20 PM, P. J. Alling wrote: Think taxes, in NYC the combined state local and federal taxes are approaching $1.00 per gallon. In Wyoming the state and local taxes are pretty much non existent. Sounds like a good reason to move out there. Bob
Re: Local Gas Prices
Except that ~90% of Europe's population lives in the area I specified. And so does all of Europe's vaunted public transit infrastructure. -Adam Bob W wrote: Sure. In that case, North America is tiny compared with Europe. As long as you forget everything except Maryland. -- Cheers, Bob -Original Message- From: Adam Maas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 April 2006 16:44 To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: Local Gas Prices Forget Russia and it is. In fact it's smaller than 2 Canadian Provinces (Quebec, if you count north-south vs. east-west, and Ontario) -Adam Bob W wrote: Correction: it's not larger - I just looked at a map. I was thinking of the whole Eurasian landmass. Still, Europe is not small compared with N. America. -- Cheers, Bob -Original Message- From: Bob W [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 April 2006 14:34 To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: RE: Local Gas Prices don't go confusing Europe and the European Union. Europe stretches from the Urals to the Atlantic, and is much larger than North America. The European Union occupies a remote peninsula on the westernmost tip of Europe. -- Cheers, Bob -Original Message- From: graywolf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 April 2006 14:00 To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: Local Gas Prices What really is shocking is when you look on a globe and see what a tiny place Europe is. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof ---
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On 29/4/06, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: we're Europeans too! Har, speak for yourself!!! Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: Local Gas Prices
On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 13:59:56 +0100, graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What really is shocking is when you look on a globe and see what a tiny place Europe is. Depends what you are comparing it with. It's bigger than the USA. John graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Malcolm Smith Subject: RE: Local Gas Prices I find that Europeans and people from the UK who have not been here generally just don't understand this about the USA. Things are far apart here, and for the most part we don't have transportation alternatives. You're right on the whole. I've had maps out in the past to point this out to some folk (making the point about the map showing the same scale for each country) who wanted to make a motoring tour of the USA in a short breakI now nod and agree, it's much simpler and let them find out on arrival. A friend of ours had a fellow from England over for a visit. He decided he wanted to see a bit of the countryside, so we took a short drive in the country, perhaps 4 hours at highway speeds (100kph). When we got home, he wanted to see how much of Canada we had traversed, and was rather shocked at how little he had seen when I showed him on a map where we had gone. William Robb -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Re: Local Gas Prices
On 29/4/06, P. J. Alling, discombobulated, unleashed: Brittan Peter, your regressing again... Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: Local Gas Prices
On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 14:11:42 +0100, Bob Shell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 29, 2006, at 8:23 AM, Bob W wrote: I find that Europeans and people from the UK we're Europeans too! Some of my UK friends bristle if called European, so I always try to make the distinction. You need to find some better-educated friends. :-) John -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Re: Local Gas Prices
Bob Shell wrote: I find that Europeans and people from the UK who have not been here generally just don't understand this about the USA. Things are far apart here, and for the most part we don't have transportation alternatives. Most of us don't have access to passenger train service. Bus service is very limited, and very slow. It's driving in our cars or not getting there. I have a choice of a 1 1/2 hour bus ride twice a day for a dollar twenty-five each way, or a 15 minute drive twice a day for about 2 dollars each way. Of course, this doesn't factor in the cost of the vehicle, but they can be had quite cheaply here. William Robb
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- Original Message - From: Paul Stenquist Subject: Re: Local Gas Prices Many American cities are close together. If you count the suburbs where commuters live, New York and Philadelphia almost touch. Ditto New York and Boston. But that's beside the point. Part of the American psyche depends heavily on mobility and freedom of movement. Before we solve the problem of how to live closer to the things we need and want, we will undoubtedly solve the problem of how to travel at a reasonable cost. The same can probably be said for Canadians. Part of southern Ontario is pretty congested, out west the cities are pretty spread out. The nearest city to me (other than the one of 180,000 lost souls that is called Regina) is 250km away, the nearest larger cities are 500km east or 800km west, and aren't big cities by American standards. William Robb
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- Original Message - From: Adam Maas Subject: Re: Local Gas Prices Forget Russia and it is. In fact it's smaller than 2 Canadian Provinces (Quebec, if you count north-south vs. east-west, and Ontario) To be fair, those are the two largest provinces. William Robb
Re: Local Gas Prices
Well, it is you guys who claim Europe is separate from Asia. On a globe it looks like Europe is the tiny western end of Asia to me. You have to look on a globe because most maps show a very distorted image. For instance Canada is nowhere near as big as it looks on most maps. Some interesting demographic are here: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/1996/in1.pdf I notice that 88.5% of the freight is by road in the UK. What's that about our inefficient oil wasting transportation system over here? HAR! graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- Bob W wrote: Sure. In that case, North America is tiny compared with Europe. As long as you forget everything except Maryland. -- Cheers, Bob -Original Message- From: Adam Maas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 April 2006 16:44 To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: Local Gas Prices Forget Russia and it is. In fact it's smaller than 2 Canadian Provinces (Quebec, if you count north-south vs. east-west, and Ontario) -Adam Bob W wrote: Correction: it's not larger - I just looked at a map. I was thinking of the whole Eurasian landmass. Still, Europe is not small compared with N. America. -- Cheers, Bob -Original Message- From: Bob W [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 April 2006 14:34 To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: RE: Local Gas Prices don't go confusing Europe and the European Union. Europe stretches from the Urals to the Atlantic, and is much larger than North America. The European Union occupies a remote peninsula on the westernmost tip of Europe. -- Cheers, Bob -Original Message- From: graywolf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 April 2006 14:00 To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: Local Gas Prices What really is shocking is when you look on a globe and see what a tiny place Europe is. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof ---
Re: Local Gas Prices
On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 01:27:56 +0100, graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, it is you guys who claim Europe is separate from Asia. On a globe it looks like Europe is the tiny western end of Asia to me. You have to look on a globe because most maps show a very distorted image. For instance Canada is nowhere near as big as it looks on most maps. Some interesting demographic are here: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/1996/in1.pdf I notice that 88.5% of the freight is by road in the UK. What's that about our inefficient oil wasting transportation system over here? HAR! Road is the only efficient system when distances are short. Just because it is 600 miles or so from Land's End to John O'Groats doesn't mean all freight takes than route. A huge amount just goes from Tilbury into London. John Bob W wrote: Sure. In that case, North America is tiny compared with Europe. As long as you forget everything except Maryland. -- Cheers, Bob -Original Message- From: Adam Maas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 April 2006 16:44 To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: Local Gas Prices Forget Russia and it is. In fact it's smaller than 2 Canadian Provinces (Quebec, if you count north-south vs. east-west, and Ontario) -Adam Bob W wrote: Correction: it's not larger - I just looked at a map. I was thinking of the whole Eurasian landmass. Still, Europe is not small compared with N. America. -- Cheers, Bob -Original Message- From: Bob W [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 April 2006 14:34 To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: RE: Local Gas Prices don't go confusing Europe and the European Union. Europe stretches from the Urals to the Atlantic, and is much larger than North America. The European Union occupies a remote peninsula on the westernmost tip of Europe. -- Cheers, Bob -Original Message- From: graywolf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 29 April 2006 14:00 To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: Local Gas Prices What really is shocking is when you look on a globe and see what a tiny place Europe is. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
Re: Local Gas Prices
That seems fairly unlikely, but I would expect that intercity trains for intermediate distances might make a comeback. Then again the Federal Government would have to repeal some of tax disincentives that killed them in the first place. Mishka wrote: that definitely explains why every other car on the hiways is an suv. i bet once gas prices get north of $5, the public transportation will get to european level quite quickly. best, mishka On 4/29/06, Bob Shell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I find that Europeans and people from the UK who have not been here generally just don't understand this about the USA. Things are far apart here, and for the most part we don't have transportation alternatives. Most of us don't have access to passenger train service. Bus service is very limited, and very slow. It's driving in our cars or not getting there. -- When you're worried or in doubt, Run in circles, (scream and shout).
Re: Local Gas Prices
Hey, the spell checker let it pass and I wasn't paying attention. (That's my story and I'm stickin' to it). Cotty wrote: On 29/4/06, P. J. Alling, discombobulated, unleashed: Brittan Peter, your regressing again... Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- When you're worried or in doubt, Run in circles, (scream and shout).
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So the Republicans get voted out because high gas prices are caused by external problems. The democrats are voted in and their solution to high gas prices is to put higher taxes on gasoline and oil producers... They'll be gone two years if they follow that prescription, (which is exactly what they were preaching a few years ago, I don't think they got many votes for that then either). graywolf wrote: Yes, spend trillions of dollars on infrastructure to save billions on gasoline. Europeans spent that kind money on mass trans portation because between 1945 and 1960 most of them were too poor to afford a private motor car. Notice that 88.5% of freight moved by highway figure in the UK in my other post. And then you still won't be able to get where you need to be when you need to be there. Before that happens there will be a new government here. I will be willing to bet that he Republicans are going to lose their majority in 2008 solely due to gas prices. Of course Bush's cronies may lower gas prices 6 months before the election, and my opinion of the public's intelligence says they will forget by election time. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- Mishka wrote: that definitely explains why every other car on the hiways is an suv. i bet once gas prices get north of $5, the public transportation will get to european level quite quickly. best, mishka On 4/29/06, Bob Shell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I find that Europeans and people from the UK who have not been here generally just don't understand this about the USA. Things are far apart here, and for the most part we don't have transportation alternatives. Most of us don't have access to passenger train service. Bus service is very limited, and very slow. It's driving in our cars or not getting there. -- When you're worried or in doubt, Run in circles, (scream and shout).
Re: Local Gas Prices
- Original Message - From: graywolf Subject: Re: Local Gas Prices Of course Bush's cronies may lower gas prices 6 months before the election, and my opinion of the public's intelligence says they will forget by election time. That would require the aquisition of oil at less than the world PPB. Not sure how he would do that... William Robb
Re: Local Gas Prices
- Original Message - From: P. J. Alling Subject: Re: Local Gas Prices high gas prices are caused by external problems. That is debatable, but this is not the forum to debate it. William Robb
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Um, the oil companies can easily sell gas for far less than they're currently getting. Exxon profits are in the billion plus per quarter range. They will make the sacrifice when called upon. Paul On Apr 29, 2006, at 9:12 PM, William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: graywolf Subject: Re: Local Gas Prices Of course Bush's cronies may lower gas prices 6 months before the election, and my opinion of the public's intelligence says they will forget by election time. That would require the aquisition of oil at less than the world PPB. Not sure how he would do that... William Robb
Re: Local Gas Prices
Paul Stenquist wrote: Um, the oil companies can easily sell gas for far less than they're currently getting. Exxon profits are in the billion plus per quarter range. They will make the sacrifice when called upon. Their gross and net margins are flat. They're simply selling more product, and the flat percentage markup on a higher cost product results in more dollars gross and net. -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ)
Re: Local Gas Prices
Billion PLUS!? This past quarter Exxon/Mobile had profits of more than 8-billion, and the last quarter of 2005 their profits were more than 10-billion (that's American dollars, boys, and a lot of 'em) Shel [Original Message] From: Paul Stenquist Um, the oil companies can easily sell gas for far less than they're currently getting. Exxon profits are in the billion plus per quarter range. They will make the sacrifice when called upon.
Re: Local Gas Prices
Where do you get those figures from? My understanding is that they are making the highest percentage of profit to gross right now of anytime since WWII. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- Doug Franklin wrote: Paul Stenquist wrote: Um, the oil companies can easily sell gas for far less than they're currently getting. Exxon profits are in the billion plus per quarter range. They will make the sacrifice when called upon. Their gross and net margins are flat. They're simply selling more product, and the flat percentage markup on a higher cost product results in more dollars gross and net.
Re: Local Gas Prices
- Original Message - From: Shel Belinkoff Billion PLUS!? This past quarter Exxon/Mobile had profits of more than 8-billion, and the last quarter of 2005 their profits were more than 10-billion (that's American dollars, boys, and a lot of 'em) How many gallons of gas did they sell? William Robb
Re: Local Gas Prices
graywolf wrote: Where do you get those figures from? My understanding is that they are making the highest percentage of profit to gross right now of anytime since WWII. Their SEC filings as of a month or two ago. -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ)
Re: Local Gas Prices
graywolf wrote: Where do you get those figures from? My understanding is that they are making the highest percentage of profit to gross right now of anytime since WWII. Notice that not a single news report (well, maybe one or two, but not the ones I've seen) talks about their margin rates, only the absolute number of dollars. -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ)
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Gallons of gas sold is only a part of such a company's profit picture. Profits are generated from other areas as well, including investments and refining. Almost 1/4 of their profits came from refining. For example, when they bought or contracted for crude @ $40.00 per barrel, and the price jumped to $60.00 per barrel, they did quite well. However, Exxon/Mobile did not control the price of crude - they just benefited from it. According to a report I heard Wednesday or Thursday, the percentage of profit made by Exxon/Mobile was about 7%, similar to the profit percentages of many other businesses. While I'm not being an apologist for the oil companies, their return on investment and profits - from a percentage standpoint - doesn't seem excessive. Actually, there are many companies in many other fields that generate larger profits in terms of percentage. Shel [Original Message] From: William Robb - Original Message - From: Shel Belinkoff Billion PLUS!? This past quarter Exxon/Mobile had profits of more than 8-billion, and the last quarter of 2005 their profits were more than 10-billion (that's American dollars, boys, and a lot of 'em) How many gallons of gas did they sell? William Robb
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Op Fri, 28 Apr 2006 05:07:55 +0200 schreef P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED]: About $2.99 for regular. Quickly approaching €1,50/l (which is about $7,- per gallon). Glad I ride a bicycle to work :o) I haven't seen any fewer cars on the road... No, but people do adapt their style of driving to save fuel. Last year, when the gas prices went over €1,40/l Shell reported 5 to 10% decrease in sales in the Netherlands. They were very surprised, as gas is said to be very price-insensitive. Shel Belinkoff wrote: Can it be we'll someday look back wistfully on these prices when we remember the good old days? What are the prices in your area? http://home.earthlink.net/~shel-pix/gasprices.html -- Regards, Lucas
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4950680.stm That's $6.52 per US gallon at today's exchange rates. Not that I care much since I don't have a car anymore. -- Cheers, Bob -Original Message- From: Shel Belinkoff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 April 2006 03:22 To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Local Gas Prices Can it be we'll someday look back wistfully on these prices when we remember the good old days? What are the prices in your area? http://home.earthlink.net/~shel-pix/gasprices.html Shel
