Re: Safe voltages for the *stDS flash hotshoe?
I think I paid $14.00 plus tax for the flash, it's major purpose in life is to keep me from destroying a more expensive piece of equipment, sort of the purpose the ZX-M originally had. Now that I no longer own the ZX-M... graywolf wrote: Um...? If the trigger voltage was much too high, and the camera did not have overvoltage protection of some sort, your problem would not have been flakey flash operation, but rather burned out shutter electronics. I suspect it was a polarity problem. Some of the voltage isolation electronics are polarity sensitive, older mechanical sync were not. You most likely could have fixed the problem by switching the sync leads in the hotfoot of the flash. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- P. J. Alling wrote: My ZX-M behaved very strangely with a cheap Vivitar 2000 flash mounted. I'm sure the trigger voltage was much too high for it. Since then I've been careful not to mount high voltage flashes on newer camera bodies, (I've since sold the ZX-M). I haven't used the Vivitar on anything other than older mechanical bodys since. Glen wrote: At 08:19 AM 10/27/2005, Mark Roberts wrote: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Glen So, I still don't know the true voltage and current specs for the hotshoe, but at least I know it works with my old higher-voltage Sunpak flash. I'm both surprised and delighted. The entire flash voltage issue is an invented one. Possibly invented by lawyers with liability concerns. No, I think there were some cameras made with limited hotshoe ratings. Perhaps those were Canon or some other brand? Apparently, many people assumed that all the new cameras had this limitation. It's also a good way for camera store sales people to sell you completely new flash equipment, when you might not really need it. I suspect that some shops intentionally don't want to know which cameras are safe with higher voltages, because they want to sell more of their new lower-trigger-voltage flash units. I know that my local Pentax dealer claimed the *istDS needed a low trigger voltage. In fact, the first person I reached at Pentax didn't know the answer, but even he seemed to think that perhaps the *istDS might need a low trigger voltage. It was only when he transferred me to Mark (a higher level of support), that I got an accurate description of the truth. take care, Glen -- When you're worried or in doubt, Run in circles, (scream and shout).
Re: Safe voltages for the *stDS flash hotshoe?
Um...? If the trigger voltage was much too high, and the camera did not have overvoltage protection of some sort, your problem would not have been flakey flash operation, but rather burned out shutter electronics. I suspect it was a polarity problem. Some of the voltage isolation electronics are polarity sensitive, older mechanical sync were not. You most likely could have fixed the problem by switching the sync leads in the hotfoot of the flash. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- P. J. Alling wrote: My ZX-M behaved very strangely with a cheap Vivitar 2000 flash mounted. I'm sure the trigger voltage was much too high for it. Since then I've been careful not to mount high voltage flashes on newer camera bodies, (I've since sold the ZX-M). I haven't used the Vivitar on anything other than older mechanical bodys since. Glen wrote: At 08:19 AM 10/27/2005, Mark Roberts wrote: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Glen So, I still don't know the true voltage and current specs for the hotshoe, but at least I know it works with my old higher-voltage Sunpak flash. I'm both surprised and delighted. The entire flash voltage issue is an invented one. Possibly invented by lawyers with liability concerns. No, I think there were some cameras made with limited hotshoe ratings. Perhaps those were Canon or some other brand? Apparently, many people assumed that all the new cameras had this limitation. It's also a good way for camera store sales people to sell you completely new flash equipment, when you might not really need it. I suspect that some shops intentionally don't want to know which cameras are safe with higher voltages, because they want to sell more of their new lower-trigger-voltage flash units. I know that my local Pentax dealer claimed the *istDS needed a low trigger voltage. In fact, the first person I reached at Pentax didn't know the answer, but even he seemed to think that perhaps the *istDS might need a low trigger voltage. It was only when he transferred me to Mark (a higher level of support), that I got an accurate description of the truth. take care, Glen
Re: Safe voltages for the *stDS flash hotshoe?
Trigger voltage on my old Vivitar 283 is 400 volts. Almost mind boggling. My ancient Norman 200B 200 watt-second strobes are only 200 volts. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- Raimo K wrote: No, it is not. There are older flashes with really high trigger voltages, like the Made in Japan version of Vivitar 283 - voltage is almost the same: 275 V. All the best! Raimo K Personal photography homepage at: http://www.uusikaupunki.fi/~raikorho - Original Message - From: Glen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net; pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:25 PM Subject: Re: Safe voltages for the *stDS flash hotshoe? snip The entire flash voltage issue is an invented one. snip
Re: Safe voltages for the *stDS flash hotshoe?
I have never measured it myself although I have one, it was something I read from somewhere. And Vivitar did it on purpose: high voltage means better reliability with poor contacts and long extension cords. All the best! Raimo K Personal photography homepage at: http://www.uusikaupunki.fi/~raikorho - Original Message - From: graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 7:20 PM Subject: Re: Safe voltages for the *stDS flash hotshoe? Trigger voltage on my old Vivitar 283 is 400 volts. Almost mind boggling. My ancient Norman 200B 200 watt-second strobes are only 200 volts. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- Raimo K wrote: No, it is not. There are older flashes with really high trigger voltages, like the Made in Japan version of Vivitar 283 - voltage is almost the same: 275 V. All the best! Raimo K Personal photography homepage at: http://www.uusikaupunki.fi/~raikorho - Original Message - From: Glen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net; pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:25 PM Subject: Re: Safe voltages for the *stDS flash hotshoe? snip The entire flash voltage issue is an invented one. snip
Re: Safe voltages for the *stDS flash hotshoe?
So, I still don't know the true voltage and current specs for the hotshoe, but at least I know it works with my old higher-voltage Sunpak flash. I'm both surprised and delighted. The entire flash voltage issue is an invented one. I have used my istD with a very old Metz 60 CT-2, both with the TTL cord and a regular PC cord (try that with yer average Canon) and also with a Photogenic 800WS power supply also hooked to the PC terminal (try that with yer average Nikon). No problems through several thousand exposures. Would MZ- and Z-series camera's be safe too? Thanks in advance, Regards, Lucas
Re: Safe voltages for the *stDS flash hotshoe?
Also i have been happily using my old Nissin 340T (190V trigger voltage) with my *istD. Nice to know that people at Pentax (at least Mark...) thinks it safe too ! Niko
Re: Safe voltages for the *stDS flash hotshoe?
Okay, I found a partial answer -- in case anyone else was also wondering. I contacted Pentax-USA tech support, and spoke to a gentleman named Mark. He claimed that although he didn't remember the exact voltage specs, that they were impressively high in his opinion -- on the order of at least several HUNDRED volts! He assured me that he had used Pentax DSLRs with old hotshoe flashes, as well as old studio flashes, which had hundreds of volts at their sync terminals. This is contrary to what the camera store sales people had led me to believe. Mark said that was a common misconception, most likely based upon mere assumption. Some other DSLRs have trouble with the high voltage, so camera sales people like to play it safe and tell everyone to avoid the old flash gear on their new cameras. Before I tried the old flash, I asked Mark if by some chance the flash were to fry the *istDS, could I have the camera repaired under warranty, and of course he said No. However, he was convinced that the camera should handle it. After being reassured that it should handle my ancient Sunpak flash, I very nervously gave it a try. It works! :) I don't have any of the nice dedicated features with this flash, but it sure beats the popup flash for power! This will be a big help, till I can get one of the new flashes someday. (It also saves me a good amount of money for the immediate future.) So, I still don't know the true voltage and current specs for the hotshoe, but at least I know it works with my old higher-voltage Sunpak flash. I'm both surprised and delighted. You talked to Mark at Pentax as well? I called tech support awhile back and he took about a week to get back to me apparently had to talk with the engineers to get the specs. Being an idiot, I didn't write it down in any good place, but I'm pretty sure that the sticky note on my monitor that reads only, 480V, 1.26A is the one that refers to the *ist-DS. They've probably just got an SCR (or perhaps a MOSFET) in there to run it... and that's the rating on the device. I, too, was worried about the voltage. My old Vivitar 2600 measures about 190v when charged. After reading this, I haven't hesitated to put it on and I've used it hundreds of times. -Cory -- * * Cory Papenfuss* * Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student * * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University * *
Re: Safe voltages for the *stDS flash hotshoe?
William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Glen So, I still don't know the true voltage and current specs for the hotshoe, but at least I know it works with my old higher-voltage Sunpak flash. I'm both surprised and delighted. The entire flash voltage issue is an invented one. Possibly invented by lawyers with liability concerns. -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: Safe voltages for the *stDS flash hotshoe?
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:18:11 -0600, William Robb wrote: That sounds more like a compatability issue. If it was a voltage one, I suspect the camera would stop working entirely, not just with them mounted. We had some problems with Minolta Maxxum and third party flashes years ago. It was badly implemented technology, nothing more. That could be, but it's not what Pentax USA technical support told me back in late '98 when the problem happened. One of them had a trigger voltage around 650V and the other was about 620V. TTYL, DougF KG4LMZ
Re: Safe voltages for the *stDS flash hotshoe?
At 08:19 AM 10/27/2005, Mark Roberts wrote: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Glen So, I still don't know the true voltage and current specs for the hotshoe, but at least I know it works with my old higher-voltage Sunpak flash. I'm both surprised and delighted. The entire flash voltage issue is an invented one. Possibly invented by lawyers with liability concerns. No, I think there were some cameras made with limited hotshoe ratings. Perhaps those were Canon or some other brand? Apparently, many people assumed that all the new cameras had this limitation. It's also a good way for camera store sales people to sell you completely new flash equipment, when you might not really need it. I suspect that some shops intentionally don't want to know which cameras are safe with higher voltages, because they want to sell more of their new lower-trigger-voltage flash units. I know that my local Pentax dealer claimed the *istDS needed a low trigger voltage. In fact, the first person I reached at Pentax didn't know the answer, but even he seemed to think that perhaps the *istDS might need a low trigger voltage. It was only when he transferred me to Mark (a higher level of support), that I got an accurate description of the truth. take care, Glen
Re: Safe voltages for the *stDS flash hotshoe?
My ZX-M behaved very strangely with a cheap Vivitar 2000 flash mounted. I'm sure the trigger voltage was much too high for it. Since then I've been careful not to mount high voltage flashes on newer camera bodies, (I've since sold the ZX-M). I haven't used the Vivitar on anything other than older mechanical bodys since. Glen wrote: At 08:19 AM 10/27/2005, Mark Roberts wrote: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Glen So, I still don't know the true voltage and current specs for the hotshoe, but at least I know it works with my old higher-voltage Sunpak flash. I'm both surprised and delighted. The entire flash voltage issue is an invented one. Possibly invented by lawyers with liability concerns. No, I think there were some cameras made with limited hotshoe ratings. Perhaps those were Canon or some other brand? Apparently, many people assumed that all the new cameras had this limitation. It's also a good way for camera store sales people to sell you completely new flash equipment, when you might not really need it. I suspect that some shops intentionally don't want to know which cameras are safe with higher voltages, because they want to sell more of their new lower-trigger-voltage flash units. I know that my local Pentax dealer claimed the *istDS needed a low trigger voltage. In fact, the first person I reached at Pentax didn't know the answer, but even he seemed to think that perhaps the *istDS might need a low trigger voltage. It was only when he transferred me to Mark (a higher level of support), that I got an accurate description of the truth. take care, Glen -- When you're worried or in doubt, Run in circles, (scream and shout).
Re: Safe voltages for the *stDS flash hotshoe?
No, it is not. There are older flashes with really high trigger voltages, like the Made in Japan version of Vivitar 283 - voltage is almost the same: 275 V. All the best! Raimo K Personal photography homepage at: http://www.uusikaupunki.fi/~raikorho - Original Message - From: Glen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net; pentax-discuss@pdml.net Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 4:25 PM Subject: Re: Safe voltages for the *stDS flash hotshoe? snip The entire flash voltage issue is an invented one. snip
Re: Safe voltages for the *stDS flash hotshoe?
Not for me it wasn't. I had two older (non-Pentax) flashes that would both consistently lock up my ZX-5 when they fired. After a handful of tests, I got rid of them. TTYL, DougF KG4LMZ -- I have a Vivitar 6000 AF macro flash, which does TTL and, according to Vivitar, operates at less than 6 volts. When I tried it on a PZ-1p, the camera locked up. I put the flash aside and planned to throw it out, rather than dump it on someone else (I had bought it from a list member down under). But based on reports of other users, I tried it on the D and it works fine. Even the exposures are accurate, even though it does not do P-TTL. I'm still wondering why -- why it works fine on the D but not the 1p, and why it exposes accurately with only TTL. Joe
Re: Safe voltages for the *stDS flash hotshoe?
- Original Message - From: Doug Franklin Subject: Re: Safe voltages for the *stDS flash hotshoe? That could be, but it's not what Pentax USA technical support told me back in late '98 when the problem happened. One of them had a trigger voltage around 650V and the other was about 620V. My thought is that if the trigger voltage is too high, they circuitry will get fried. OTOH, I am a simple hack photographer, not an engineer. A trigger voltage that high is insane, BTW. I think a standard flash tube lights up at around 480v. William Robb
Safe voltages for the *stDS flash hotshoe?
What amount of voltage and current is the hotshoe of the Pentax *istDS designed for? By this, I am referring to the primary set of contacts that would actually trip a flash unit, and not any of the extra dedicated contacts. Does anyone know the technical details for the hotshoe? thanks, Glen
Re: Safe voltages for the *stDS flash hotshoe?
At 03:27 PM 10/26/2005, Glen wrote: What amount of voltage and current is the hotshoe of the Pentax *istDS designed for? By this, I am referring to the primary set of contacts that would actually trip a flash unit, and not any of the extra dedicated contacts. Does anyone know the technical details for the hotshoe? thanks, Glen Okay, I found a partial answer -- in case anyone else was also wondering. I contacted Pentax-USA tech support, and spoke to a gentleman named Mark. He claimed that although he didn't remember the exact voltage specs, that they were impressively high in his opinion -- on the order of at least several HUNDRED volts! He assured me that he had used Pentax DSLRs with old hotshoe flashes, as well as old studio flashes, which had hundreds of volts at their sync terminals. This is contrary to what the camera store sales people had led me to believe. Mark said that was a common misconception, most likely based upon mere assumption. Some other DSLRs have trouble with the high voltage, so camera sales people like to play it safe and tell everyone to avoid the old flash gear on their new cameras. Before I tried the old flash, I asked Mark if by some chance the flash were to fry the *istDS, could I have the camera repaired under warranty, and of course he said No. However, he was convinced that the camera should handle it. After being reassured that it should handle my ancient Sunpak flash, I very nervously gave it a try. It works! :) I don't have any of the nice dedicated features with this flash, but it sure beats the popup flash for power! This will be a big help, till I can get one of the new flashes someday. (It also saves me a good amount of money for the immediate future.) So, I still don't know the true voltage and current specs for the hotshoe, but at least I know it works with my old higher-voltage Sunpak flash. I'm both surprised and delighted. take care, Glen
Re: Safe voltages for the *stDS flash hotshoe?
On Oct 26, 2005, at 12:27 PM, Glen wrote: What amount of voltage and current is the hotshoe of the Pentax *istDS designed for? By this, I am referring to the primary set of contacts that would actually trip a flash unit, and not any of the extra dedicated contacts. Does anyone know the technical details for the hotshoe? I've heard variously that it can handle trigger voltages up to 24V, 175V, 300V, and 400V. Since I don't like to risk damage, I use a Wein Safe Sync with anything that has a trigger voltage higher than 10V. Godfrey
Re: Safe voltages for the *stDS flash hotshoe?
- Original Message - From: Glen Subject: Re: Safe voltages for the *stDS flash hotshoe? So, I still don't know the true voltage and current specs for the hotshoe, but at least I know it works with my old higher-voltage Sunpak flash. I'm both surprised and delighted. The entire flash voltage issue is an invented one. I have used my istD with a very old Metz 60 CT-2, both with the TTL cord and a regular PC cord (try that with yer average Canon) and also with a Photogenic 800WS power supply also hooked to the PC terminal (try that with yer average Nikon). No problems through several thousand exposures. William Robb
Re: Safe voltages for the *stDS flash hotshoe?
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:43:00 -0600, William Robb wrote: The entire flash voltage issue is an invented one. Not for me it wasn't. I had two older (non-Pentax) flashes that would both consistently lock up my ZX-5 when they fired. After a handful of tests, I got rid of them. TTYL, DougF KG4LMZ
Re: Safe voltages for the *stDS flash hotshoe?
- Original Message - From: Doug Franklin Subject: Re: Safe voltages for the *stDS flash hotshoe? On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:43:00 -0600, William Robb wrote: The entire flash voltage issue is an invented one. Not for me it wasn't. I had two older (non-Pentax) flashes that would both consistently lock up my ZX-5 when they fired. After a handful of tests, I got rid of them. That sounds more like a compatability issue. If it was a voltage one, I suspect the camera would stop working entirely, not just with them mounted. We had some problems with Minolta Maxxum and third party flashes years ago. It was badly implemented technology, nothing more. William Robb
