Re: What Adobe product?
> On Jul 2, 2023, at 1:03 PM, Eric Weir wrote: > >> On Jun 10, 2023, at 10:36 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi >> wrote: >> >> 'm most impressed with RAW Power used in conjunction with Photos … I could >> actually make that my only image management system for macOS, iOS, and >> iPadOS, and dispense with the Adobe, Affinity, and Snapseed software >> entirely. There's no real issue with doing that, just a bit of work to >> re-organize my photographic storage and learn fully the use of Photos and >> RAW Power, but the cost of the Adobe and other software is low enough that >> I've been too lazy to be bothered doing that thus far. :) … It is, however, >> a good alternative app suite for my needs, should I decide to go that way. > > I’m gonna go with the Lightroom Classic option, at least for the time being. > But curious, could you manage your older images Photos with Raw power? Would > you lose your processing? That depends upon your organization and workflow, and what you mean. For my organization and workflow with Lightroom (now Lightroom Classic), the answer is yes: I could manage all my older photographs with Photos and RAW Power easily and not lose any of my finished image processing/rendering work. Note the specification of "finished" in that statement… This is because, from the very beginning when I started using Lightroom, I realized that a parametric editing system was an interpretive, live process … the *instructions* on what to do to an original image file is what the LR Catalog contains, the original image file is unchanged, so when LR displays an image, it is reading the original image and interpreting it in a display preview according to the rendering parameters that you've set. If you open the original file with any other application or viewer, those instructions are not there and only the original file will be displayed. So my workflow rule is that when I reach a point where I consider a rendered photograph finished, I export it to a *new* file in a *separate* directory tree structure. This "bakes" editing parameters into the pixel values and writes any IPTC annotation in the individual files' metadata. Those exported files can be opened with any image viewer allowing you to see the results of your work. I maintain, then, two LR catalogs: - In Progress :: this catalog is what I import original image files with, do my rendering work, IPTC annotation, et cetera. - Completed Work :: this catalog contains ONLY finished work, no original image files, from a separate directory tree of finished work rather than original imports. To switch to using Photos and RAW Power as my tools, I would create two Photos libraries, paralleling the two LR catalogs. One library, the default one, would be used the same way "In Progress" is used currently in LR Classic, along with RAW Power to do rendering work. The other library would contain ONLY the directory tree of finished, rendered image files just as the "Completed Work" LR catalog does, and I would use only the image management and organizational tools in Photo since this library is not intended for image rendering at all; it's a tool for organizing, finding, and using the finished photographs outside of the editing/rendering domain. In doing such a changeover of tools, I would lose only un-finished editing work in the In Progress LR catalog, which I'm perfectly happy to do since if something is unfinished it means I haven't done any significant work on it anyway. Of course, I would take steps to ensure that all of the IPTC annotation data for any unfinished work was saved to disk either in xmp sidecar files or embedded into DNG, JPEG, and TIFF files before transitioning to Photos … that preserves whatever minimal work I'd done on the original image files (usually on-import keywording, identification, location, etc) that I would not want to lose. All of that data is already embedded in each of the finished photograph files, so that library would not require any prep to the "Completed Work" LR catalog's files at all. G — No matter where you go, there you are. -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: What Adobe product?
> On Jul 2, 2023, at 1:03 PM, Eric Weir wrote: > >> On Jun 10, 2023, at 10:36 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi >> wrote: >> >> 'm most impressed with RAW Power used in conjunction with Photos … I could >> actually make that my only image management system for macOS, iOS, and >> iPadOS, and dispense with the Adobe, Affinity, and Snapseed software >> entirely. There's no real issue with doing that, just a bit of work to >> re-organize my photographic storage and learn fully the use of Photos and >> RAW Power, but the cost of the Adobe and other software is low enough that >> I've been too lazy to be bothered doing that thus far. :) … It is, however, >> a good alternative app suite for my needs, should I decide to go that way. > > I’m gonna go with the Lightroom Classic option, at least for the time being. > But curious, could you manage your older images Photos with Raw power? Would > you lose your processing? That depends upon your organization and workflow, and what you mean. For my organization and workflow with Lightroom (now Lightroom Classic), the answer is yes: I could manage all my older photographs with Photos and RAW Power easily and not lose any of my finished image processing/rendering work. Note the specification of "finished" in that statement… This is because, from the very beginning when I started using Lightroom, I realized that a parametric editing system was an interpretive, live process … the *instructions* on what to do to an original image file is what the LR Catalog contains, the original image file is unchanged, so when LR displays an image, it is reading the original image and interpreting it in a display preview according to the rendering parameters that you've set. If you open the original file with any other application or viewer, those instructions are not there and only the original file will be displayed. So my workflow rule is that when I reach a point where I consider a rendered photograph finished, I export it to a *new* file in a *separate* directory tree structure. This "bakes" editing parameters into the pixel values and writes any IPTC annotation in the individual files' metadata. Those exported files can be opened with any image viewer allowing you to see the results of your work. I maintain, then, two LR catalogs: - In Progress :: this catalog is what I import original image files with, do my rendering work, IPTC annotation, et cetera. - Completed Work :: this catalog contains ONLY finished work, no original image files, from a separate directory tree of finished work rather than original imports. To switch to using Photos and RAW Power as my tools, I would create two Photos libraries, paralleling the two LR catalogs. One library, the default one, would be used the same way "In Progress" is used currently in LR Classic, along with RAW Power to do rendering work. The other library would contain ONLY the directory tree of finished, rendered image files just as the "Completed Work" LR catalog does, and I would use only the image management and organizational tools in Photo since this library is not intended for image rendering at all; it's a tool for organizing, finding, and using the finished photographs outside of the editing/rendering domain. In doing such a changeover of tools, I would lose only un-finished editing work in the In Progress LR catalog, which I'm perfectly happy to do since if something is unfinished it means I haven't done any significant work on it anyway. Of course, I would take steps to ensure that all of the IPTC annotation data for any unfinished work was saved to disk either in xmp sidecar files or embedded into DNG, JPEG, and TIFF files before transitioning to Photos … that preserves whatever minimal work I'd done on the original image files (usually on-import keywording, identification, location, etc) that I would not want to lose. All of that data is already embedded in each of the finished photograph files, so that library would not require any prep to the "Completed Work" LR catalog's files at all. G — No matter where you go, there you are. -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: What Adobe product?
> On Jun 10, 2023, at 10:36 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: > > 'm most impressed with RAW Power used in conjunction with Photos … I could > actually make that my only image management system for macOS, iOS, and > iPadOS, and dispense with the Adobe, Affinity, and Snapseed software > entirely. There's no real issue with doing that, just a bit of work to > re-organize my photographic storage and learn fully the use of Photos and RAW > Power, but the cost of the Adobe and other software is low enough that I've > been too lazy to be bothered doing that thus far. :) … It is, however, a > good alternative app suite for my needs, should I decide to go that way. I’m gonna go with the Lightroom Classic option, at least for the time being. But curious, could you manage your older images Photos with Raw power? Would you loose your processing? -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@comcast.net “...permanent doubt, the deep source of science.” - Carlo Rovelli -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: What Adobe product?
The I-phone editing software on recent models is excellent, better than Elements. Paul > On Jun 10, 2023, at 3:15 PM, Eric Weir wrote: > > >> On Jun 10, 2023, at 10:07 AM, Bob W PDML wrote: >> >> I don’t do much post-processing. > > I don’t either. The minor tweaking I do to get Images that are a bit more > vibrant that what the iPhone cameral produces. Realistically could be > dispensed with. I do frequently want to crop images, though. > > -- > Eric Weir > Decatur, GA USA > eew...@comcast.net > > "You keep on learning and learning, and pretty soon > you learn something no one has learned before." > > - Richard Feynman > -- > %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List > To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: What Adobe product?
> On Jun 10, 2023, at 10:07 AM, Bob W PDML wrote: > > I don’t do much post-processing. I don’t either. The minor tweaking I do to get Images that are a bit more vibrant that what the iPhone cameral produces. Realistically could be dispensed with. I do frequently want to crop images, though. -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@comcast.net "You keep on learning and learning, and pretty soon you learn something no one has learned before." - Richard Feynman -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: What Adobe product?
First, thanks to everyone who responded. All very helpful. > On Jun 10, 2023, at 10:36 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: > > - Photos is pervasive throughout Apple's OS ecology, provides excellent image > management capabilities, and RAW Power is a companion app that gives much > greater access to user control of Apple's image management underlying > frameworks. It's also available on all Apple OS platforms. > > I'm most impressed with RAW Power used in conjunction with Photos … I could > actually make that my only image management system for macOS, iOS, and > iPadOS, and dispense with the Adobe, Affinity, and Snapseed software > entirely. There's no real issue with doing that, just a bit of work to > re-organize my photographic storage and learn fully the use of Photos and RAW > Power, but the cost of the Adobe and other software is low enough that I've > been too lazy to be bothered doing that thus far. :) … It is, however, a > good alternative app suite for my needs, should I decide to go that way. That said, this almost convinces me to go with Photos, which I have been using exclusively in processing my iPhone photos. And I will continue to do so going forward, at least for my iPhone photos, and possibly even with photos created with a camera. (I still have two, both Fuji, And I’m tempted by the X-E4, for which I have one excellent lens.) But I still have tons of photos—well, not tons compared to you guys 🤪—that have been processed and organized with Lightroom. I would want local storage, which means the Classic bundle, though it’s very unlikely that I’d use anything but Lightroom. But I believe it is $20 month. Again, thanks to everyone who responded. — Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@comcast.net “...permanent doubt, the deep source of science.” - Carlo Rovelli -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: What Adobe product?
> On Jun 10, 2023, at 2:35 PM, Ralf R Radermacher wrote: > > 'healed' Adobe user What do you use, Ralf? 😊 -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@comcast.net "The invincible shield of caring Is a weapon sent from the sky against being dead." - Tao Te Ching 67 -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: What Adobe product?
Am 10.06.23 um 16:21 schrieb Godfrey DiGiorgi: Photoshop Elements is a simplified, reduced feature version of Photoshop. AFAIR it's 8 bit only per channel. Makes for impressive banding in the sky and histograms that look like a picket fence. Ralf 'healed' Adobe user -- Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Fotos : https://www.fotocommunity.de/user_photos/770012 -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: What Adobe product?
Oh yes: On my mobile devices (iPhone and iPad), I use Snapseed, Affinity Photo, and Photos supplemented by RAW Power for image management and rendering. - Snapseed is great because it's very easy to learn and use. - Affinity Photo is a Photoshop replacement. It has versions to run on macOS, iOS, and iPadOS, and it handles things that Snapseed cannot. I use it primarily to handle edge cases that Snapseed cannot (like Leica M10 Monochrom and Hasselblad raw files). - Photos is pervasive throughout Apple's OS ecology, provides excellent image management capabilities, and RAW Power is a companion app that gives much greater access to user control of Apple's image management underlying frameworks. It's also available on all Apple OS platforms. I'm most impressed with RAW Power used in conjunction with Photos … I could actually make that my only image management system for macOS, iOS, and iPadOS, and dispense with the Adobe, Affinity, and Snapseed software entirely. There's no real issue with doing that, just a bit of work to re-organize my photographic storage and learn fully the use of Photos and RAW Power, but the cost of the Adobe and other software is low enough that I've been too lazy to be bothered doing that thus far. :) … It is, however, a good alternative app suite for my needs, should I decide to go that way. G > On Jun 10, 2023, at 7:21 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: > > If you've been using an older version of Lightroom for your rendering work, > the current offering is Lightroom Classic for the same workflow and image > storage (local storage centric) features. Lightroom and Lightroom Mobile use > a cloud-based storage mechanism as primary. I don't use Adobe's cloud at all, > so I've never used them. > > Before Lightroom, I used Photoshop for all my rendering work. Since LR came > out, I've used it less and less to the point where I have not even installed > it on my system for at least eight or nine years. > > Photoshop Elements is a simplified, reduced feature version of Photoshop. > I've never used it; I tried it once and found the 'simplified' user interface > very off-putting. It is a standalone app and, for me, irrelevant. > > The photographer's bundle of Lightoom and Photoshop for $10 per month (with > NO cloud storage addendum) includes access to both LR and LR Classic, > Photoshop, Bridge, Premiere Rush, Character Animator, UXP Developer Tools, > and a beta Aero apps. I pay for this subscription but only install Lightroom > Classic. Given how much I use it, $10/month is a reasonable deal for that. I > guess I could install Photoshop if I felt I really needed it, but that hasn't > happened. > > I've been on this subscription since the beginning of 2019 and it has worked > well and consistently, overall, and it keeps up to date with new features and > developments at no additional charge. > > G > >> On Jun 10, 2023, at 5:58 AM, Eric Weir wrote: >> >> >> I’m going to be upgrading to a new Mac, silicon not Intel. I own a copy of >> Lightroom.I will need to upgrade. Sticking to Adobe there are three options: >> Elements, Lightroom, and Lightroom Classic. I have never used Photoshop. >> Don’t see myself using it down the road. Would Lightroom, i.e., without with >> Photoshop be equivalent to the copy of Lightroom that I own and itself >> probably has more power features that I need/will use? What about Elements? >> >> My photography for some time now has been iPhone photography. I’ve >> considered just relying on Apple’s Photos app for editing. But with ought >> Lightroom I assume I’d lose access to the catalogue of photos that have been >> edited and managed with Lightroom. >> >> Interested in experience and thoughts of others that would help me decide. -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: What Adobe product?
If you've been using an older version of Lightroom for your rendering work, the current offering is Lightroom Classic for the same workflow and image storage (local storage centric) features. Lightroom and Lightroom Mobile use a cloud-based storage mechanism as primary. I don't use Adobe's cloud at all, so I've never used them. Before Lightroom, I used Photoshop for all my rendering work. Since LR came out, I've used it less and less to the point where I have not even installed it on my system for at least eight or nine years. Photoshop Elements is a simplified, reduced feature version of Photoshop. I've never used it; I tried it once and found the 'simplified' user interface very off-putting. It is a standalone app and, for me, irrelevant. The photographer's bundle of Lightoom and Photoshop for $10 per month (with NO cloud storage addendum) includes access to both LR and LR Classic, Photoshop, Bridge, Premiere Rush, Character Animator, UXP Developer Tools, and a beta Aero apps. I pay for this subscription but only install Lightroom Classic. Given how much I use it, $10/month is a reasonable deal for that. I guess I could install Photoshop if I felt I really needed it, but that hasn't happened. I've been on this subscription since the beginning of 2019 and it has worked well and consistently, overall, and it keeps up to date with new features and developments at no additional charge. G > On Jun 10, 2023, at 5:58 AM, Eric Weir wrote: > > > I’m going to be upgrading to a new Mac, silicon not Intel. I own a copy of > Lightroom.I will need to upgrade. Sticking to Adobe there are three options: > Elements, Lightroom, and Lightroom Classic. I have never used Photoshop. > Don’t see myself using it down the road. Would Lightroom, i.e., without with > Photoshop be equivalent to the copy of Lightroom that I own and itself > probably has more power features that I need/will use? What about Elements? > > My photography for some time now has been iPhone photography. I’ve considered > just relying on Apple’s Photos app for editing. But with ought Lightroom I > assume I’d lose access to the catalogue of photos that have been edited and > managed with Lightroom. > > Interested in experience and thoughts of others that would help me decide. -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: What Adobe product?
I use Lightroom almost exclusively on my iPhone and iPad. I also have it, and a copy of LR Classic, on my Mac mini, but rarely use it on that. However, I don’t do much post-processing. You could subscribe and try them all for no extra cost, then cancel the subscription if you don’t like it. > On 10 Jun 2023, at 13:58, Eric Weir wrote: > > > I’m going to be upgrading to a new Mac, silicon not Intel. I own a copy of > Lightroom.I will need to upgrade. Sticking to Adobe there are three options: > Elements, Lightroom, and Lightroom Classic. I have never used Photoshop. > Don’t see myself using it down the road. Would Lightroom, i.e., without with > Photoshop be equivalent to the copy of Lightroom that I own and itself > probably has more power features that I need/will use? What about Elements? > > My photography for some time now has been iPhone photography. I’ve considered > just relying on Apple’s Photos app for editing. But with ought Lightroom I > assume I’d lose access to the catalogue of photos that have been edited and > managed with Lightroom. > > Interested in experience and thoughts of others that would help me decide. > > thanks, > -- > Eric Weir > Decatur, GA USA > eew...@comcast.net > > "Our world is a human world." > > - Hilary Putnam > > > > > > -- > %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List > To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
What Adobe product?
I’m going to be upgrading to a new Mac, silicon not Intel. I own a copy of Lightroom.I will need to upgrade. Sticking to Adobe there are three options: Elements, Lightroom, and Lightroom Classic. I have never used Photoshop. Don’t see myself using it down the road. Would Lightroom, i.e., without with Photoshop be equivalent to the copy of Lightroom that I own and itself probably has more power features that I need/will use? What about Elements? My photography for some time now has been iPhone photography. I’ve considered just relying on Apple’s Photos app for editing. But with ought Lightroom I assume I’d lose access to the catalogue of photos that have been edited and managed with Lightroom. Interested in experience and thoughts of others that would help me decide. thanks, -- Eric Weir Decatur, GA USA eew...@comcast.net "Our world is a human world." - Hilary Putnam -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
