Digital and soul (WAS: Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S))
Dan wrote: I'm here, though, 'cause the pictures I've seen from digital cameras have no soul. This reminds me about arguments agianst digital sound. It also seem to lack soul. I guess grain from film add texture to an image. I guess pixel aren't as pleasing for texture. Pl - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
Well, I know that Pentax Canada monitored the list at some point, because I got a call about something I said once. :) Aaron - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: Digital and soul (WAS: Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S))
At 12:28 16.1.2001 +0100, Pl wrote: I guess grain from film add texture to an image. I guess pixel aren't as pleasing for texture. Hmm.. this makes me think why didn't I go thru and get a patent for "Randomly Arranged CCD Element for Photography"... RACEP ;-) It would be a lot like film with grain... maybe even slightly different sized and shaped cells. Then some control logic to slightly alter the "sensitivities" of different cells from one exposure to another. Antti-Pekka --- * Antti-Pekka Virjonen * Fiskarsinkatu 7 D * GSM: +358 400 789753 * * Computec Oy Turku* FIN-20750 Turku Finland * Fax: +358 2 413 * - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
On Tue, 16 Jan 2001, Alan Chan wrote: Finding an excellent yet affordable lab is difficult indeed. I thought I found one, until someone else operated the very same machine and now they suck. Every print comes with little white spots everywhere as bonus. Black spots on a print are probably dust on the negative at the time the photo was taken (your fault), but white spots are crud (dust, hair, etc.) on the neg at the time it was printed (your lab's fault). They should re-do those for you at no charge. chris - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
SV: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
Well, aren't we all... Jens -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]P; vegne af Alan Chan Sendt: 16. januar 2001 04:46 Til: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Emne: Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S) Of course. To my knowledge, nobody identifying themselves as from Pentax ever appeared on the list == they wouldn't have dared to. g Perhaps we can start guessing who is/are working for Pentax... regards, Alan Chan _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
Black spots on a print are probably dust on the negative at the time the photo was taken (your fault), but white spots are crud (dust, hair, etc.) on the neg at the time it was printed (your lab's fault). They should re-do those for you at no charge. I did, but it happened too often and on too many prints each time, I just visit another lab now. regards, Alan Chan _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
2001: again no interesting Product for me in the pipeline (MZ-S again postponed for months and clearly over $1000, other interesting products only available in Japan). I think the price is still pretty uncertain. Besides, we still do not know what they would offer eventually. Often a phototype did not reflect the final product. Not that I need a new camera every other year, but the Z-1/1P's technology is 10 years old meanwhile and the MZ-5N never really convinced me. What hurts even more is the way Pentax behave in the last years: arrogant and ignorant. I doubt they even know what people like me want. That's not too bad. At least I don't have to spend my money on a brand new body every year, or lusting one (because there is nothing to lust). As somebody else said: I don't support a company that doesn't support me. And even doesn't care, I would like to add. I think Pentax has never showed their true emotion, let alone care or not. But to be serious, I believe they have learnt that their top end bodies did not sell very well (really belong to Nikon, Canon and Minolta), so they have been very careful when it comes to top end bodies. Afterall, they cannot make too many mistakes like the LX, the SFX series and the Z-1 series did. And a product line is nothing without enough earning. regards, Alan Chan _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
I'm sceptical too, but what is said is that the camera has been through a fundamental design revision after being previewed at Photokina. No, I don't know what a fundamental design revision actually means. The release date (Japan) surfacing from all this is end of May/beginning of June. This has been suggested. Perhaps Pentax Japan was trying to collect as much opinions and comments as they could last year. That was never meant to be final. Now they are working on the revised version based on those comments. Just a guess. But IMHO, it's better to push back the release date rather than rushing a premature product. Besides, life goes on with or without the new body, to me anyway. regards, Alan Chan _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
As somebody else said: I don't support a company that doesn't support me. And even doesn't care, I would like to add. I was thinking, maybe Pentax did indeed monitor this list and value our opinions carefully. That's why the possible "MZ-S" had been revised, again... You really can't blamed them being so considerable. regards, Alan Chan _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
Alan wrote: Perhaps Pentax Japan was trying to collect as much opinions and comments as they could last year. That was never meant to be final. Now they are working on the revised version based on those comments. Just a guess. Pretty much what happened as I understand it. Pl - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
Alan wrote: But to be serious, I believe they have learnt that their top end bodies did not sell very well (really belong to Nikon, Canon and Minolta), so they have been very careful when it comes to top end bodies. Actually, Pentax has been far more sucessful than Minolta regarding sales of expensive bodies. Afterall, they cannot make too many mistakes like the LX, the SFX series and the Z-1 series did. And a product line is nothing without enough earning. The LX was extremely sucessful and I believe the SFX was too judging from the number autofocus F lenses (1.5 million) they sold in the 2-3 years they were offered. In comparioson, the FA series took 7 years to reach the same volume. Pl - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
Alan wrote: I was thinking, maybe Pentax did indeed monitor this list and value our opinions carefully. That's why the possible "MZ-S" had been revised, again... You really can't blamed them being so considerable. This is what people in Japan think too. It seems most people will rather spend more for more features. Pl - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
Alan wrote: I think not. Just how many Pentax users in the world would pay that much or even more? We are not talking about Nikon or Canon. I believe the idea that no one will pay for expensive camera thats not Nikon or Canon is wrong. Anyway, it would be disastrous for any manufacturer to subscribe to this theory. Furthermore, the market for expensive cameras is huge. Its mostly a matter of convention; if Pentax don't make expensive cameras for awhile then people assume Pentaxes are cheap. The convention is also changing. My local camera shop never have EOS3 or F100 at display; they have probably never sold one. However, they sell loads of equally priced digital PS to causual consumers. This proves that the consumer will pay what it cost to get what he wants. When digital get an even firmer hold on the market, people will accept even more a higher price on cameras. It can even be expected that those who stay with film will be the enthusiasts, willing to pay for a camera, and the poor ones who can't afford digital. Also, Pentax have the largest selection of professional, expensive lenses besides Nikon and Canon. They have far more than Minolta. It wouldn't be surprised if their high-end stuff outnumbers Canon. The Limited lenses are sales succeses even though they are very expensive for what they do, I believe the market is there. Pl - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
I kinda doubt that, otherwise they would still be hosting this list. Norm From: Alan Chan I was thinking, maybe Pentax did indeed monitor this list and value our opinions carefully. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
I would have done the same. By NOT hosting this list officially, they remove a subtle pressure to hold back criticism. And constructive criticism is worth it's weight in gold for a company. They were getting superior feedback whitout the expense of organising focus group, and they are getting even more now. Their new 'flagship' camera is targeted at just the kind of sophisticated users that makes up the readership of this list. That some point-and-shoot crowd might have money to burn and buy this new camera because of status is just a bonus for them. Michel From: Norman Baugher [EMAIL PROTECTED] I kinda doubt that, otherwise they would still be hosting this list. Norm From: Alan Chan I was thinking, maybe Pentax did indeed monitor this list and value our opinions carefully. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
Michel wrote: I would have done the same. By NOT hosting this list officially, they remove a subtle pressure to hold back criticism. And constructive criticism is worth it's weight in gold for a company. Some people insist that Pnetax don't listen. However, both Pentax in Japan and Pentax US have confirmed that Pentax do indeed monitor Pentax-Discuss and similar Pentax related groups in Japan. Pl - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
What about the new digital SLR? If the MZ-S a film camera based off of the digital SLR, big changes to the film camera probably means changes to the digital one, right? Todd At 03:14 AM 1/15/01 -0800, you wrote: As somebody else said: I don't support a company that doesn't support me. And even doesn't care, I would like to add. I was thinking, maybe Pentax did indeed monitor this list and value our opinions carefully. That's why the possible "MZ-S" had been revised, again... You really can't blamed them being so considerable. regards, Alan Chan _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
I think Pentax dumped the list for a number of reasons. Among them (and in no particular order) might be the following: 1.Opinions expressed on the list were not the official position of Pentax Corporation and they felt that the opinions might be damaging to Pentax's reputation. What Valentin used to call FUD - Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. 2.Potential for liability concerning information given on the list, given they were sponsoring the list. (We have become a very litigious society.) 3.Dealing with people who communicate with them saying, "I heard on the PDML that...", or words to that effect. 4.Calls from folks whining to them that someone talked mean to them on the list. Some lists I participate in (I participate in 4 photo groups and 10 firearm groups) are warm, friendly unmoderated pub like places filled with jovial folks. Some are moderated, no nonsense places. Their value is limited because they attract few members, all of whom are 'know-it-alls' and therefore the available useful information is often limited. Some are cold, unmoderated continuous cat fights. You can get your information, but you've got to put up with a lot of crap with half the folks engaged in 'net policing' and the other half defying the net police. 5.Problems associated with list maintenance. Navidec provided no easy means to contact them when problems occurred. 6.Cost. The list is a drop in the bucket compared to Pentax USA's operating expenses, but when corporate funds dip, the least justifiable costs are eliminated first regardless of how trivial they are. 7.Some other reason non of us has thought of. I don't think wild speculation about new products would have anything to do with it. Speculation verbiage which reflects unfavorably on Pentax and it's products might be troubling, but not the speculation itself. Regards, Bob... --- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote! - Original Message - From: "Norman Baugher" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 7:50 AM Subject: Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S) No offense Michel, but what are you smoking? G Holding back criticism was never an issue on this list. I think if anything, they dumped the list because of all the wild speculation on new products being reported as fact Just my .02 centavos, Norm From: Michel Adam I would have done the same. By NOT hosting this list officially, they remove a subtle pressure to hold back criticism. snip - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
Agreed, but my point was speculation presented as official soon-to-be-released Pentax factoids... Norm From: Bob Blakely I don't think wild speculation about new products would have anything to do with it. Speculation verbiage which reflects unfavorably on Pentax and it's products might be troubling, but not the speculation itself. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
down Bill - Original Message - From: "Bob Blakely" Subject: Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S) . A show of hands of those who felt subtle pressure to hold back criticism due to Pentax being the host would be interesting... My hand is down. Regards, Bob... - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
My hand is half way up/down. I agree with Bob's outlined list of potential reasons. Here's my 2 cents worth, For the 2 years I've been on the list, it seems the days leading up to the announcement that PENTAX was going to no longer host the list, were filled with an unprecedented (on the list) amount of profanity, ego-bashing, and unrestrained verbal abuse. Maybe the decision was a long time in coming, maybe it was reached because of the crescendo. I have long wondered why PENTAX hosted a list that DID HAVE SO MUCH NEGATIVE CONTENT, both as mentioned above and expressed towards PENTAX, their "inability to compete", their lack of a "New Pro Body", etc., etc. For one I never felt comfortable leveling outright criticism at PENTAX because it would be akin to biting the hand that is feeding you (by hosting the list). Why would any self-respecting company (or individual) deliberately provide a forum in which their reputation would be cast in doubt? To me it makes perfect sense that PENTAX would cease to host a list, the content of which was questionable as to being in the company's best interest. In retrospect it's apparent that they did monitor the list. Whether they took the opinions on the list seriously and used them in any way is a matter for conjecture. I personally would guess not, unless it sparked an idea that would represent significant potential financial gain. Tom C. -Original Message- From: Bob Blakely [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, January 15, 2001 10:42 AM Subject: Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S) It never occurred to me that anyone felt any 'subtle pressure' to hold back criticism. I was never aware of any such pressure on myself as would relate in any way to the hosting of the list by Pentax Corp. I may have had other, more personal reasons to be 'restrained' but certainly nothing top do with who hosted the list. Well, we've had several polls and counts here on the list. I am curious. A show of hands of those who felt subtle pressure to hold back criticism due to Pentax being the host would be interesting... My hand is down. Regards, Bob... --- Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote! From: "Michel Adam" [EMAIL PROTECTED] The operative words were 'subtle pressure' ...:-) From: Norman Baugher [EMAIL PROTECTED] No offense Michel, but what are you smoking? G Holding back criticism was never an issue on this list. I think if anything, they dumped the list because of all the wild speculation on new products being reported as fact Just my .02 centavos, - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
Todd wrote: What about the new digital SLR? If the MZ-S a film camera based off of the digital SLR, big changes to the film camera probably means changes to the digital one, right? I supose so. Pl - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
Bob, I would say that you lined up the correct reasons. A similar situation happened with the email list of the Mercedes Benz Club of America. MB North America was supporting and hosting their list, until it was to much trouble. I do know from MB people first hand that they keep monotoring the list, because that gives them the best (free) feedback available regarding MB products, and this without them getting involved. Your points 1, 2, 3 4 are the same as MB had trouble with. Points 3, 4, 5 6 costed MB 3 employees full time. Another example for the automobile industry, Land Rover North America has 4 part time employees to monitor the several LR related lists. My oldest son did that during the last summer. Land Rovers North, an independent dealer, closed their own list for your point 1, 2, 3, 4. Mecedes Benz in Tuscaloosa, AL, where they build there M class SUV (Soft Urban Vehicle, no it's not a Sport Utility Vehicle) has 2 part timers monitoring M related lists. And my Browning list is also monitored by Browning. It is a very normal trend in most industries to gather all the free information from lists. fredd Regarding the lists where you have to put up with a lot of crap, ever been on the Tactics list ? 1.Opinions expressed on the list were not the official position of Pentax Corporation and they felt that the opinions might be damaging to Pentax's reputation. What Valentin used to call FUD - Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. 2.Potential for liability concerning information given on the list, given they were sponsoring the list. (We have become a very litigious society.) 3.Dealing with people who communicate with them saying, "I heard on the PDML that...", or words to that effect. 4.Calls from folks whining to them that someone talked mean to them on the list. Some lists I participate in (I participate in 4 photo groups and 10 firearm groups) are warm, friendly unmoderated pub like places filled with jovial folks. Some are mo derated, no nonsense places. Their value is limited because they attract few members, all of whom are 'know-it-alls' and therefore the available useful information is often limited. Some are cold, unmoderated continuous cat fights. You can get your information, but you've got to put up with a lot of crap with half the folks engaged in 'net policing' and the other half defying the net police. 5.Problems associated with list maintenance. Navidec provided no easy means to contact them when problems occurred. 6.Cost. The list is a drop in the bucket compared to Pentax USA's operating expenses, but when corporate funds dip, the least justifiable costs are eliminated first regardless of how trivial they are. 7.Some other reason non of us has thought of. I don't think wild speculation about new products would have anything to do with it. Speculation verbiage which reflects unfavorably on Pentax and it's products might be troubling, but not the speculation itself. Regards, Bob... - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
William Robb wrote: differentiate between the psycho list members who treat Pentax as all that is good and glorious, and not to be critisized, and someone from Pentax itself coming on stream telling someone that critisism of Pentax will not be tolerated on the list Your hand is waving because of the former, not the latter, I do believe. Of course. To my knowledge, nobody identifying themselves as from Pentax ever appeared on the list == they wouldn't have dared to. g - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
Actually, Pentax has been far more sucessful than Minolta regarding sales of expensive bodies. I was thinking, Minolta seemed to release the most number of high end bodies over the years. I really cannot track or remember them all (unlike Canon and Nikon). How they managed to sell them all? Maybe the Japanese market is very much different. regards, Alan Chan _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
I was thinking, maybe Pentax did indeed monitor this list and value our opinions carefully. I kinda doubt that, otherwise they would still be hosting this list. I have another theory. Maybe Pentax was trying to collect our opinions over the last few years in order to finalize their MZ-S (the name is not important) features. Now they have collected enough information (they think) and the MZ-S is about ready. In order to cut down the cost, they have decided to drop the list and let someone else to run it. That means from now on, what we said was less important that we used to be. Just a guess. regards, Alan Chan _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
I agree with you Robert (except I like the PZ-1p). For myself, I've pretty much determined that Pentax couldn't offer me much more in a 35mm camera than I already have with the PZ-1p. If any new camera is going to cost close to a $1000, I figure I will get a much better bank for the buck ratio by going with medium format as in a 67II. Tom C. -Original Message- From: Robert VanNatta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, January 15, 2001 2:24 PM Subject: Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S) I guess I agree. The flaming and profanity is simply not needed. There are ways to communicate strong feelings without being so obnoxious.That said, it is clear (in hindsight) that pentax has made some marketing errors over the years that threaten their future. Ten years of cameras that looked like plastic junk (the P series and SF series come to mind) couldn't have helped. Having used Pentaxes for 35 years, it seems that pentax has tremendous engineers who invent the niftiest new ideas, and some competitor makes the money exploiting the idea. We all have significant investments in Pentax Iron, and while thier failures are frustrating, their failures are also our potential failure, becuase if Pentax flicks out of the SLR business, our investment in glass ends up in the land fill. If Pentax (and pentax users) are going to survive over time we must have a migration path that remains open. This implies a need for some serious shoring up on the high end. Presently there is no logical successor to the LX, and no logical successor to the P1Z, and there is no migration path to digital. The photokina displays of a high end silver based camera and a companion digital model are clearly what is needed. We can only hope that Pentax goes forth with these and finds a 'feature/price balance' that provides us with a good value and sells well.If they we we all have a future, otherwise we need to be wishing for a 'canon' adapter for our Pentax lenses. The zx-5(n) is a great camera, and worthy of a nomination for best in its class, but it and its crippled children (the zx30-50) won't sustain Pentax in the SLR business for much longer. We are now without dispute in the 21st century and those models are clearly from the previous century. aimcompute wrote: My hand is half way up/down. snip I have long wondered why PENTAX hosted a list that DID HAVE SO MUCH NEGATIVE CONTENT, both as mentioned above and expressed towards PENTAX, their "inability to compete", their lack of a "New Pro Body", etc., etc. For one I never felt comfortable leveling outright criticism at PENTAX because it would be akin to biting the hand that is feeding you (by hosting the list). Why would any self-respecting company (or individual) deliberately provide a forum in which their reputation would be cast in doubt? To me it makes perfect sense that PENTAX would cease to host a list, the content of which was questionable as to being in the company's best interest. snip Tom C. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
I would never understand why people would pay so much for the digital cameras just for snap shots only. regards, Alan Chan I believe the idea that no one will pay for expensive camera thats not Nikon or Canon is wrong. Anyway, it would be disastrous for any manufacturer to subscribe to this theory. Furthermore, the market for expensive cameras is huge. Its mostly a matter of convention; if Pentax don't make expensive cameras for awhile then people assume Pentaxes are cheap. The convention is also changing. My local camera shop never have EOS3 or F100 at display; they have probably never sold one. However, they sell loads of equally priced digital PS to causual consumers. This proves that the consumer will pay what it cost to get what he wants. When digital get an even firmer hold on the market, people will accept even more a higher price on cameras. It can even be expected that those who stay with film will be the enthusiasts, willing to pay for a camera, and the poor ones who can't afford digital. Also, Pentax have the largest selection of professional, expensive lenses besides Nikon and Canon. They have far more than Minolta. It wouldn't be surprised if their high-end stuff outnumbers Canon. The Limited lenses are sales succeses even though they are very expensive for what they do, I believe the market is there. Pål _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
Robert: I guess I agree. The flaming and profanity is simply not needed. There are ways to communicate strong feelings without being so obnoxious. I have far less problems with heated arguments than with personal attacks rooted in personal issues instead of the topic discussed. Separating the person from the argument is the name of the game. That said, it is clear (in hindsight) that pentax has made some marketing errors over the years that threaten their future. Ten years of cameras that looked like plastic junk (the P series and SF series come to mind) couldn't have helped. Having used Pentaxes for 35 years, it seems that pentax has tremendous engineers who invent the niftiest new ideas, and some competitor makes the money exploiting the idea. We all have significant investments in Pentax Iron, and while thier failures are frustrating, their failures are also our potential failure, becuase if Pentax flicks out of the SLR business, our investment in glass ends up in the land fill. If Pentax (and pentax users) are going to survive over time we must have a migration path that remains open. This implies a need for some serious shoring up on the high end. Presently there is no logical successor to the LX, and no logical successor to the P1Z, and there is no migration path to digital. The photokina displays of a high end silver based camera and a companion digital model are clearly what is needed. We can only hope that Pentax goes forth with these and finds a 'feature/price balance' that provides us with a good value and sells well.If they we we all have a future, otherwise we need to be wishing for a 'canon' adapter for our Pentax lenses. The zx-5(n) is a great camera, and worthy of a nomination for best in its class, but it and its crippled children (the zx30-50) won't sustain Pentax in the SLR business for much longer. We are now without dispute in the 21st century and those models are clearly from the previous century. Brilliant post. The good news is that Pentax have a new boss recruited from their RD dept. Among the first thing he did was starting an advertising campagne where Pentax heritage in slr design is stressed and where they promise to be back in that field. I can only assume that the somewhat bleak 90's was a consolidation period under the previous boss after heavy losses at the end of the 80's, where their slr sales simply folded. Pl - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
On Mon, 15 Jan 2001, Norman Baugher wrote: Hell Pål, I know for a fact that they don't listen. My sources told me so. G Norm Really? I asked my sources, but they didn't listen to me. :) chris - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
Paal nailed that one straight on the head! Japan is very much a buy now, buy again market regardless of the cost and especially for high-priced toys. Not speaking for myself, but it is quite common to see top of the line cameras from all brands being carried around by avid photo fans in Japan (Tokyo, at least)... I see a lot of MZ-7s carried around by older men/women probably due to its compact size but you also see older, retired men hefting around the N/C pro bodies. I've got a friend from Seattle coming out this weekend and it's going to be fun to try and loosen his purse strings on some new toys... ;-) Cheers, Jeff From: Pl Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 13:56:55 +0100 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S) This is what people in Japan think too. It seems most people will rather spend more for more features. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
RE: simply folded It is not hard to understand why I bought a P3n and tried to give it to one of my daughters as a gift and she refused--- taking an ME super instead because it looked like a camera. Never mind that the P3n has considerably more to offer in the way of features than the ME Super (Program mode for example) Pl Jensen wrote: Brilliant post. The good news is that Pentax have a new boss recruited from their RD dept. Among the first thing he did was starting an advertising campagne where Pentax heritage in slr design is stressed and where they promise to be back in that field. I can only assume that the somewhat bleak 90's was a consolidation period under the previous boss after heavy losses at the end of the 80's, where their slr sales simply folded. Pl - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
Alan wrote: I was thinking, Minolta seemed to release the most number of high end bodies over the years. I really cannot track or remember them all (unlike Canon and Nikon). How they managed to sell them all? Maybe the Japanese market is very much different. Well, all the various "9" bodies was rather half hearted effords. Although the latest achieved some short lived sucess I would expect its close to unsellable now after the new Dynaxx 7 was released. Their Pentax LX/Nikon F2/Canon F1 competitor, the Minlota XM, was an utter and totalt failure. One of the rarest slr's around. Pl - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
Of course. To my knowledge, nobody identifying themselves as from Pentax ever appeared on the list == they wouldn't have dared to. g Perhaps we can start guessing who is/are working for Pentax... regards, Alan Chan _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
I would never understand why people would pay so much for the digital cameras just for snap shots only. regards, Alan Chan I can tell you why. It gets *extremely* frustrating to take pictures you know are decent with a camera you know is decent and still end up with prints that are just awful. Going digital, even for snapshots, removes the Achilles heel of the film business (by removing the colorblind, poorly paid, poorly-trained machine operator in the photolab from the loop). When my snapshots suck, I want it to be because *I* took a lousy picture and not because someone who doesn't care, or doesn't know how to operate their equipment screwed my snapshots up. Spending a few hundred bucks over the cost of a nice camera to get a nice digital camera and with it freedom from the tyrany of the photolab is worth it to a lot of people. Being able to email snapshots to friends and family without having to go to the photolab first is icing on the cake. I'm here, though, 'cause the pictures I've seen from digital cameras have no soul. Some lenses, and some some films, have soul-that indefinable something extra that is really hard if not impossible to quantify, but still seems to exist, at least for a few people. (as an aside, I suspect that Pentax is working *really* hard to put soul into their limited series). Once some digital cameras manage to acquire soul, there probably won't be much reason for me to stick with film. Dan Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
Recently Ralf Engelmann wrote: This means that Boz's and others infos, saying that the camera is not the flagship, is nonsense. Moment mal! You just said that the MZ-S is dead, and this upgraded camera is a "new" animal. And then you go on to say that my claim that the MZ-S is not the flagship is nonsense?!? Boz (offended) - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Visit the PUG at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
--- Pål_Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ralf wrote: As long as they don't do, the existing press releases and hands on reports in magazinew are valid, at least much more valid than any kind of speculations. What the magazine prints is whats in the press release. The press release says that all specifications might change. What CDI prints is speculations around a prototype. Note that the prototype is just that; a prototype - not the production camera. Yes, and the press releases don't say much, actually. Note that the photokina demo model of the new 24-90 mm lens had the designation 24-90/3.5-4.5 AlIF. However, the press releases dont't give any speed for this lens. This means the production model might differ in specifications. In the same way, all "specs" of the MZ-S that are derived from looking at the prototype model are speculations. Alexander Of course, the KB-266 prototype might be dead, it might even be that we see a MZ-3N sooner than any advanced Pentax, but where are the reliable infos? Actually, most of the time shedule you gave last year was wrong, and you are saying now that the Photokina specs published by Pentax are wrong too, so what's left then? Does the camera still exist at all? Whats the problem? Pentax have shown a prototype where all features may change without further notice. They have not promised any release date at all. The only new is that the camera will be released later than it could have been. But we don't know what could have been or what will be. Basically, the camera could have been release earlier if they had gone for the features present in the Photokina prototype, but don't know the features of the prototype or the production model so we are non the wiser. So theres no reason to be dissapointed. :-) Pål __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, visit http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions.
RE: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
Is there any indication of the quality/price by looking at the AlIF designation? Is there any rumour about the release date of this one? I am very interested in this lens. My current lens is the dreaded FA28-80 3.5-4.7 I need to get it fixed though, the switch on the barrel fall off. Frits Note that the photokina demo model of the new 24-90 mm lens had the designation 24-90/3.5-4.5 AlIF. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, visit http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
The magnitude of the delay is unknown to me. Actually, I turns out to be only a couple of months. Still hope that it hit the shelves before the summer. Pl - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, visit http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions.
Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S)
I think I mentioned it before, but recent mags are still running Pentax print ads definitely showing the MZ-S body (backlit so you can't see much more than the 'Pentax' logo on the front and the general outline of the body)... Cheers, Jeff From: Pl Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 20:32:34 +0100 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: just talked to Pentax ...(about the MZ-S) Its also suggested that the MZ-S as shown at Photokina basically is no more, but then what this means is hard to tell since Pentax didn't disclose much of what they were actually showing at Photokina. Anyway, it will be interesting to see whether Pentax show the same prototype as at Photokina or that they will show a finalized design at PMA. The magnitude of the delay is unknown to me. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, visit http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions.
