Re: [PEIRCE-L] John Kaag on William James (& Peirce & Whitman) on "The greatest uses of life"
Jeff, list,
Jeff wrote: "John Kaag's essay is beautifully written. The pace, the
examples, the poetry draw one forward from James' "Maybe" to the question
itself: "Is *my* life really worth living?". I'd be interested in a
threaded discussion if others have similar interests."
I've been having an extended off-list discussion with a Peirce forum member
on this and related topics. It may be difficult for some to discuss this
question publicly, not only generally ("Is life worth living?"), but even
more so, personally ("Is *my* life worth living"). I would certainly be
interested in such a discussion although, as is so often the case these
days it seems, life intervenes, and I am presently dealing with a shocking
personal tragedy involving a very old, very dear friend. This has kept me
from completing a post commenting generally on Kaag's fine essay ("a worthy
meditation" as an off-list correspondent put it) with some brief specific
responses to Helmut's and Stephen's remarks. But more active participation
by me may take a few days. If others--or you, Jeff--would like to begin
that discussion, I'll join in asap.
Best,
Gary
*Gary Richmond*
*Philosophy and Critical Thinking*
*Communication Studies*
*LaGuardia College of the City University of New York*
*718 482-5690*
On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 1:17 PM Jeffrey Brian Downard <
jeffrey.down...@nau.edu> wrote:
> Gary R, List,
>
>
> John Kaag's essay is beautifully written. The pace, the examples, the
> poetry draw one forward from James' "Maybe" to the question itself: "Is
> *my* life really worth living?".
>
>
> I'd be interested in a threaded discussion if others have similar
> interests.
>
>
> --Jeff
>
>
> Jeffrey Downard
> Associate Professor
> Department of Philosophy
> Northern Arizona University
> (o) 928 523-8354
> ------
> *From:* Gary Richmond
> *Sent:* Monday, October 1, 2018 12:04:02 PM
> *To:* Peirce-L
> *Subject:* [PEIRCE-L] John Kaag on William James (& Peirce & Whitman) on
> "The greatest uses of life"
>
> List,
>
> An engaging essay, "The greatest uses of life," by John Kaag appeared in
> the e-journal, *Aeon*, today, and I thought it might provide an
> interesting springboard for discussion of a facet of the work of William
> James, Peirce, and Walt Whitman relating to the title of the essay. See:
> https://aeon.co/essays/is-life-worth-living-the-pragmatic-maybe-of-william-james?utm_source=Aeon
>
> We've been concentrating intensely and for some time now here on Peirce's
> semeiotic, especially its first branch, theoretical grammar, and for a
> while now I must admit that, as interesting and valuable as I have found
> that discussion to be, I've been looking to find a way to open a thread on
> some aspect of pragmatism *not* directly involving logic as semeiotic.
> I'm hoping that this essay might provide something of a springboard into a
> discussion of the theme of Kaag's essay in the light of pragmatism, James',
> Peirce's, Whitman's, and other's.
>
> The work of Kaag, author of *American Philosophy: A Love Story *(2016)
> and, more recently, *Hiking with Nietzsche*, published this year, has
> been briefly discussed on Peirce-L from time to time in recent years and it
> is my sense that at least some forum members find his work of interest.
>
> Of course we all have notions as to "the greatest uses of life" which we
> could expound upon without further reflection, but I'd like to ask those
> who might be interested in a threaded discussion on the topic to read
> Kaag's short essay before posting. To perhaps pique your interest, here's
> the conclusion of "The greatest uses of life."
>
> Before the Brooklyn Bridge was built, a ferry carried passengers from one
> side of the river to the other. Walt Whitman was often among the crowd. The
> American poet was one of James’s longstanding heroes, the embodiment of the
> capacious ‘healthy mind’ he describes in the *Varieties.* James
> occasionally sensed the sublime or the religious on his hikes in the
> Adirondacks or in the testament of mystics, but Whitman could tap into it
> on a routine basis, even on a dirty ferry ride, which most people would
> regard as a rather annoying commute. It wasn’t annoying for Whitman. In his
> poem ‘Crossing Brooklyn Ferry’ (1855), he described the spectacle – the
> experience of nature and the experience of the human throng. Both were
> inexplicable and hopeful and shared:
>
> Others will enter the gates of the ferry, and cross from shore to shore,
> Others will watch the run of the
Re: [PEIRCE-L] John Kaag on William James (& Peirce & Whitman) on "The greatest uses of life"
Gary R, List, John Kaag's essay is beautifully written. The pace, the examples, the poetry draw one forward from James' "Maybe" to the question itself: "Is my life really worth living?". I'd be interested in a threaded discussion if others have similar interests. --Jeff Jeffrey Downard Associate Professor Department of Philosophy Northern Arizona University (o) 928 523-8354 From: Gary Richmond Sent: Monday, October 1, 2018 12:04:02 PM To: Peirce-L Subject: [PEIRCE-L] John Kaag on William James (& Peirce & Whitman) on "The greatest uses of life" List, An engaging essay, "The greatest uses of life," by John Kaag appeared in the e-journal, Aeon, today, and I thought it might provide an interesting springboard for discussion of a facet of the work of William James, Peirce, and Walt Whitman relating to the title of the essay. See: https://aeon.co/essays/is-life-worth-living-the-pragmatic-maybe-of-william-james?utm_source=Aeon We've been concentrating intensely and for some time now here on Peirce's semeiotic, especially its first branch, theoretical grammar, and for a while now I must admit that, as interesting and valuable as I have found that discussion to be, I've been looking to find a way to open a thread on some aspect of pragmatism not directly involving logic as semeiotic. I'm hoping that this essay might provide something of a springboard into a discussion of the theme of Kaag's essay in the light of pragmatism, James', Peirce's, Whitman's, and other's. The work of Kaag, author of American Philosophy: A Love Story (2016) and, more recently, Hiking with Nietzsche, published this year, has been briefly discussed on Peirce-L from time to time in recent years and it is my sense that at least some forum members find his work of interest. Of course we all have notions as to "the greatest uses of life" which we could expound upon without further reflection, but I'd like to ask those who might be interested in a threaded discussion on the topic to read Kaag's short essay before posting. To perhaps pique your interest, here's the conclusion of "The greatest uses of life." Before the Brooklyn Bridge was built, a ferry carried passengers from one side of the river to the other. Walt Whitman was often among the crowd. The American poet was one of James’s longstanding heroes, the embodiment of the capacious ‘healthy mind’ he describes in the Varieties. James occasionally sensed the sublime or the religious on his hikes in the Adirondacks or in the testament of mystics, but Whitman could tap into it on a routine basis, even on a dirty ferry ride, which most people would regard as a rather annoying commute. It wasn’t annoying for Whitman. In his poem ‘Crossing Brooklyn Ferry’ (1855), he described the spectacle – the experience of nature and the experience of the human throng. Both were inexplicable and hopeful and shared: Others will enter the gates of the ferry, and cross from shore to shore, Others will watch the run of the flood-tide; Others will see the shipping of Manhattan north and west, and the heights of Brooklyn to the south and east; Others will see the islands large and small; Fifty years hence, others will see them as they cross, the sun half an hour high. A hundred years hence, or ever so many hundred years hence, others will see them, Will enjoy the sunset, the pouring in of the flood-tide, the falling back to the sea of the ebb-tide. 3. It avails not, neither time or place – distance avails not. James read and reread this poem. This was wonder, and there was enough of it to go around. It turns out that one can probably set aside the nuttier aspects of the Society for Psychical Research and still retain a Whitman-esque experience of the world, the numinous immanence of an all-too-human ferry ride. That, at least, was James’s hope. Whitman’s vision, in James’s words, was sufficient ‘to prompt our curiosities and hopes and suspicions’. The world is not always, or ever, exactly as it seems. A dirty ferry ride might be more than just a dirty ferry ride. There is something more – at least it is possible. Whitman’s was a type of religious experience – and so very different from the way that most people experience the world. Reflecting on ‘Crossing Brooklyn Ferry’, James explained: When your ordinary Brooklynite or New Yorker, leading a life replete with too much luxury, or tired and careworn, about his personal affairs, crosses the ferry or goes up Broadway, his fancy does not thus ‘soar away into the colours of the sunset’ as did Whitman’s, nor does he inwardly realise at all the indisputable fact that this world never did anywhere or at any time contain more of essential divinity, or of eternal meaning, than is embodied in the fields of vision over which his eyes
Re: [PEIRCE-L] John Kaag on William James (& Peirce & Whitman) on "The greatest uses of life"
I think continuity and Peirce's agapaic thinking are indicative of his sense that life continues. We have no idea what this means in any detail though an effort to fathom various "hearsay" accounts suggests there are realms, not out of line with some quantum speculation. What we believe, I now feel, is what we believe and of little account in the scheme of things. What we experience and knowledge derived from conscious reflection seems to me to take precedence. amazon.com/author/stephenrose On Sat, Oct 6, 2018 at 12:13 PM Helmut Raulien wrote: > Gary, list, > Thank you. > Regarding religion, my belief is, that the individual is not a pristine > entity, but an individuation, done, provided by the universe. As such it > has not only the opportunity, but also the inherited responsibility to cope > with the universe. A youth neglecting all boundaries, claiming pristinity > and total freedom, is telling good from bad, as the youth soul is a token > of God. Then it gets more and more clear, that the body must survive too, > and make compromises. Some die, some survive brokenly, but some survive and > stay clean. Why not everybody? The conditions are not like that... > > *Gesendet:* Montag, 01. Oktober 2018 um 21:04 Uhr > *Von:* "Gary Richmond" > *An:* Peirce-L > *Betreff:* [PEIRCE-L] John Kaag on William James (& Peirce & Whitman) on > "The greatest uses of life" > List, > > An engaging essay, "The greatest uses of life," by John Kaag appeared in > the e-journal, *Aeon*, today, and I thought it might provide an > interesting springboard for discussion of a facet of the work of William > James, Peirce, and Walt Whitman relating to the title of the essay. See: > https://aeon.co/essays/is-life-worth-living-the-pragmatic-maybe-of-william-james?utm_source=Aeon > > We've been concentrating intensely and for some time now here on Peirce's > semeiotic, especially its first branch, theoretical grammar, and for a > while now I must admit that, as interesting and valuable as I have found > that discussion to be, I've been looking to find a way to open a thread on > some aspect of pragmatism *not* directly involving logic as semeiotic. > I'm hoping that this essay might provide something of a springboard into a > discussion of the theme of Kaag's essay in the light of pragmatism, James', > Peirce's, Whitman's, and other's. > > The work of Kaag, author of *American Philosophy: A Love Story *(2016) > and, more recently, *Hiking with Nietzsche*, published this year, has > been briefly discussed on Peirce-L from time to time in recent years and it > is my sense that at least some forum members find his work of interest. > > Of course we all have notions as to "the greatest uses of life" which we > could expound upon without further reflection, but I'd like to ask those > who might be interested in a threaded discussion on the topic to read > Kaag's short essay before posting. To perhaps pique your interest, here's > the conclusion of "The greatest uses of life." > > Before the Brooklyn Bridge was built, a ferry carried passengers from one > side of the river to the other. Walt Whitman was often among the crowd. The > American poet was one of James’s longstanding heroes, the embodiment of the > capacious ‘healthy mind’ he describes in the *Varieties.* James > occasionally sensed the sublime or the religious on his hikes in the > Adirondacks or in the testament of mystics, but Whitman could tap into it > on a routine basis, even on a dirty ferry ride, which most people would > regard as a rather annoying commute. It wasn’t annoying for Whitman. In his > poem ‘Crossing Brooklyn Ferry’ (1855), he described the spectacle – the > experience of nature and the experience of the human throng. Both were > inexplicable and hopeful and shared: > > Others will enter the gates of the ferry, and cross from shore to shore, > Others will watch the run of the flood-tide; > Others will see the shipping of Manhattan north and west, and the heights > of Brooklyn to the south and east; > Others will see the islands large and small; > Fifty years hence, others will see them as they cross, the sun half an > hour high. > A hundred years hence, or ever so many hundred years hence, others will > see them, > Will enjoy the sunset, the pouring in of the flood-tide, the falling back > to the sea of the ebb-tide. > > 3. > > It avails not, neither time or place – distance avails not. > > James read and reread this poem. This was wonder, and there was enough of > it to go around. It turns out that one can probably set aside the nuttier > aspects of the Society for Psychical Research and still retai
Aw: [PEIRCE-L] John Kaag on William James (& Peirce & Whitman) on "The greatest uses of life"
Gary, list, Thank you. Regarding religion, my belief is, that the individual is not a pristine entity, but an individuation, done, provided by the universe. As such it has not only the opportunity, but also the inherited responsibility to cope with the universe. A youth neglecting all boundaries, claiming pristinity and total freedom, is telling good from bad, as the youth soul is a token of God. Then it gets more and more clear, that the body must survive too, and make compromises. Some die, some survive brokenly, but some survive and stay clean. Why not everybody? The conditions are not like that... Gesendet: Montag, 01. Oktober 2018 um 21:04 Uhr Von: "Gary Richmond" An: Peirce-L Betreff: [PEIRCE-L] John Kaag on William James (& Peirce & Whitman) on "The greatest uses of life" List, An engaging essay, "The greatest uses of life," by John Kaag appeared in the e-journal, Aeon, today, and I thought it might provide an interesting springboard for discussion of a facet of the work of William James, Peirce, and Walt Whitman relating to the title of the essay. See: https://aeon.co/essays/is-life-worth-living-the-pragmatic-maybe-of-william-james?utm_source=Aeon We've been concentrating intensely and for some time now here on Peirce's semeiotic, especially its first branch, theoretical grammar, and for a while now I must admit that, as interesting and valuable as I have found that discussion to be, I've been looking to find a way to open a thread on some aspect of pragmatism not directly involving logic as semeiotic. I'm hoping that this essay might provide something of a springboard into a discussion of the theme of Kaag's essay in the light of pragmatism, James', Peirce's, Whitman's, and other's. The work of Kaag, author of American Philosophy: A Love Story (2016) and, more recently, Hiking with Nietzsche, published this year, has been briefly discussed on Peirce-L from time to time in recent years and it is my sense that at least some forum members find his work of interest. Of course we all have notions as to "the greatest uses of life" which we could expound upon without further reflection, but I'd like to ask those who might be interested in a threaded discussion on the topic to read Kaag's short essay before posting. To perhaps pique your interest, here's the conclusion of "The greatest uses of life." Before the Brooklyn Bridge was built, a ferry carried passengers from one side of the river to the other. Walt Whitman was often among the crowd. The American poet was one of James’s longstanding heroes, the embodiment of the capacious ‘healthy mind’ he describes in the Varieties. James occasionally sensed the sublime or the religious on his hikes in the Adirondacks or in the testament of mystics, but Whitman could tap into it on a routine basis, even on a dirty ferry ride, which most people would regard as a rather annoying commute. It wasn’t annoying for Whitman. In his poem ‘Crossing Brooklyn Ferry’ (1855), he described the spectacle – the experience of nature and the experience of the human throng. Both were inexplicable and hopeful and shared: Others will enter the gates of the ferry, and cross from shore to shore, Others will watch the run of the flood-tide; Others will see the shipping of Manhattan north and west, and the heights of Brooklyn to the south and east; Others will see the islands large and small; Fifty years hence, others will see them as they cross, the sun half an hour high. A hundred years hence, or ever so many hundred years hence, others will see them, Will enjoy the sunset, the pouring in of the flood-tide, the falling back to the sea of the ebb-tide. 3. It avails not, neither time or place – distance avails not. James read and reread this poem. This was wonder, and there was enough of it to go around. It turns out that one can probably set aside the nuttier aspects of the Society for Psychical Research and still retain a Whitman-esque experience of the world, the numinous immanence of an all-too-human ferry ride. That, at least, was James’s hope. Whitman’s vision, in James’s words, was sufficient ‘to prompt our curiosities and hopes and suspicions’. The world is not always, or ever, exactly as it seems. A dirty ferry ride might be more than just a dirty ferry ride. There is something more – at least it is possible. Whitman’s was a type of religious experience – and so very different from the way that most people experience the world. Reflecting on ‘Crossing Brooklyn Ferry’, James explained: When your ordinary Brooklynite or New Yorker, leading a life replete with too much luxury, or tired and careworn, about his personal affairs, crosses the ferry or goes up Broadway, his fancy does not thus ‘soar away into the colours of the sunset’ as did Whitman’s, nor does he inwardly realise at all the indisputable fact that th
[PEIRCE-L] John Kaag on William James (& Peirce & Whitman) on "The greatest uses of life"
List, An engaging essay, "The greatest uses of life," by John Kaag appeared in the e-journal, *Aeon*, today, and I thought it might provide an interesting springboard for discussion of a facet of the work of William James, Peirce, and Walt Whitman relating to the title of the essay. See: https://aeon.co/essays/is-life-worth-living-the-pragmatic-maybe-of-william-james?utm_source=Aeon We've been concentrating intensely and for some time now here on Peirce's semeiotic, especially its first branch, theoretical grammar, and for a while now I must admit that, as interesting and valuable as I have found that discussion to be, I've been looking to find a way to open a thread on some aspect of pragmatism *not* directly involving logic as semeiotic. I'm hoping that this essay might provide something of a springboard into a discussion of the theme of Kaag's essay in the light of pragmatism, James', Peirce's, Whitman's, and other's. The work of Kaag, author of *American Philosophy: A Love Story *(2016) and, more recently, *Hiking with Nietzsche*, published this year, has been briefly discussed on Peirce-L from time to time in recent years and it is my sense that at least some forum members find his work of interest. Of course we all have notions as to "the greatest uses of life" which we could expound upon without further reflection, but I'd like to ask those who might be interested in a threaded discussion on the topic to read Kaag's short essay before posting. To perhaps pique your interest, here's the conclusion of "The greatest uses of life." Before the Brooklyn Bridge was built, a ferry carried passengers from one side of the river to the other. Walt Whitman was often among the crowd. The American poet was one of James’s longstanding heroes, the embodiment of the capacious ‘healthy mind’ he describes in the *Varieties.* James occasionally sensed the sublime or the religious on his hikes in the Adirondacks or in the testament of mystics, but Whitman could tap into it on a routine basis, even on a dirty ferry ride, which most people would regard as a rather annoying commute. It wasn’t annoying for Whitman. In his poem ‘Crossing Brooklyn Ferry’ (1855), he described the spectacle – the experience of nature and the experience of the human throng. Both were inexplicable and hopeful and shared: Others will enter the gates of the ferry, and cross from shore to shore, Others will watch the run of the flood-tide; Others will see the shipping of Manhattan north and west, and the heights of Brooklyn to the south and east; Others will see the islands large and small; Fifty years hence, others will see them as they cross, the sun half an hour high. A hundred years hence, or ever so many hundred years hence, others will see them, Will enjoy the sunset, the pouring in of the flood-tide, the falling back to the sea of the ebb-tide. 3. It avails not, neither time or place – distance avails not. James read and reread this poem. This was wonder, and there was enough of it to go around. It turns out that one can probably set aside the nuttier aspects of the Society for Psychical Research and still retain a Whitman-esque experience of the world, the numinous immanence of an all-too-human ferry ride. That, at least, was James’s hope. Whitman’s vision, in James’s words, was sufficient ‘to prompt our curiosities and hopes and suspicions’. The world is not always, or ever, exactly as it seems. A dirty ferry ride might be more than just a dirty ferry ride. There is something more – at least it is possible. Whitman’s was a type of religious experience – and so very different from the way that most people experience the world. Reflecting on ‘Crossing Brooklyn Ferry’, James explained: When your ordinary Brooklynite or New Yorker, leading a life replete with too much luxury, or tired and careworn, about his personal affairs, crosses the ferry or goes up Broadway, *his* fancy does not thus ‘soar away into the colours of the sunset’ as did Whitman’s, nor does he inwardly realise at all the indisputable fact that this world never did anywhere or at any time contain more of essential divinity, or of eternal meaning, than is embodied in the fields of vision over which his eyes so carelessly pass. However, one does not have to be careless. Thankfully there are other ways to pass the time and other times to pass away. The flood and the ebb continue to go out and come in. And James suggests that it is possible, even for a pragmatist, to occasionally feel the reassuring cycle of its flow. At these moments, one has a chance to be ‘religious’ in James’s sense of the word, to enter ‘a state of mind, known to religious men, but to no others, in which the will to assert ourselves and hold our own has been displaced by a willingness to close our mouths and be as nothing in the floods and waterspouts of God. In this state of mind, what we most dreaded has become the habitation of our safety …’ I looked out to the Statue of Liberty again, and back
