RE: [PEIRCE-L] thoughts, signs and things

[gnox]

Hello Sally, good to hear from you!

Thich Nhat Hanh has performed great service in making Buddhist ideas and 
practices accessible to the “Western” world. Peirce’s writings refer vaguely to 
Buddhism here and there, but he didn’t have access to the translations and 
studies of Zen texts that we have now, so it’s hard to say what he would have 
thought of them. I can’t help thinking, though, that Hanh’s idea of 
“interbeing” is closely related to Peirce’s synechism, especially to the 
continuity of time. 

I also see great affinities between Peirce’s phenomenology and Dogen’s, as 
readers of Turning Signs <https://gnusystems.ca/TS/>  must have noticed. This 
comes out especially with the interplay between mediation and immediacy 
(Thirdness and Firstness, Time and Presence) in the chapter on Creation 
Evolving <https://gnusystems.ca/TS/crn.htm> . I only wish I could express it as 
clearly as Thich Nhat Hanh does.

Gary f.

} And one day you get that letter you've been waiting for forever. And 
everything it says is true. And then in the last line it says: Burn this. 
[Laurie Anderson, “Same Time Tomorrow”] {

 <https://gnusystems.ca/wp/> https://gnusystems.ca/wp/ }{ living the time

 

From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu  On 
Behalf Of Sally Ness
Sent: 17-Dec-21 17:19
To: Gary Fuhrman 
Cc: Peirce-L 
Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] thoughts, signs and things

 

Thank you for initiating this thread, Gary.  

 

I have often thought that Thich Nhat Hanh's teachings in particular were 
closely aligned with Peirce's semiotic.  They kind of slow semiosis down to 
near stillness, but it is a Peircean semiosis that they are slowing down. 

 

When Hanh reflects on a tree, for example, and says it is more beautiful than a 
cathedral and proceeds to explain why, his understanding of the tree comes 
across as a fact of Thirdness.  He says it is beautiful because he can see 
"everything is there in the tree." He can see a cloud in the tree (why? you 
cannot have a tree without water), or  he can see the Earth in the tree (why? a 
tree could not have grown without the earth feeding it). When he finds that 
everything is there in the tree, he is recognizing the tree as a presence that 
connects him to all of these, a presence that co-presences.  The tree seems 
very much like a Peircean sign in these teachings. Perhaps it is more of a 
later Peircean sign--mediating and extending rather than "standing for."  
Perhaps it illustrates why Peirce later rejected the concept of representation 
as an apt characterization of everything he wanted to include in his notion of 
a triadic relation and turned instead to mediation.  In any case, clearly Hahn 
appreciates the indexicality inherent in the tree's being in these teachings.

 

I also find Hanh aligned with Peirce when Hahn teaches that "the present is 
made of the past" and that the future must grow from the "seeds" of the 
present.  When he says that we can "touch the past" only when we are living 
fully in the present moment--it is hard to imagine how this kind of experience 
could be anything other than irreducibly triadic.

 

With gratitude,

Sally

 

On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 8:56 AM mailto:g...@gnusystems.ca> 
> wrote:

Since the list has been fairly quiet lately, some Peirceans might be interested 
in a newly revised part of Turning Signs which explores some of the connections 
(and apparent contradictions) among Peircean semiotics, phaneroscopy, Buddhist 
sutras and meditation practices. This part/point is here 
<https://gnusystems.ca/TS/ydb.htm#x32>  — it includes so many internal links 
that I thought it better to just post the one link to the whole thing. It also 
includes an explanation of Peirce’s statement (c. 1901 
<https://gnusystems.ca/KainaStoicheia.htm> ) that “a sign is not a real thing,” 
which has evoked some discussion on the list before, but is recontextualized 
here.

Gary f.

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Re: [PEIRCE-L] thoughts, signs and things

[Sally Ness]

Thank you for initiating this thread, Gary.

I have often thought that Thich Nhat Hanh's teachings in particular were
closely aligned with Peirce's semiotic.  They kind of slow semiosis down to
near stillness, but it is a Peircean semiosis that they are slowing down.

When Hanh reflects on a tree, for example, and says it is more beautiful
than a cathedral and proceeds to explain why, his understanding of the tree
comes across as a fact of Thirdness.  He says it is beautiful because
he can see "everything is there in the tree." He can see a cloud in the
tree (why? you cannot have a tree without water), or  he can see the Earth
in the tree (why? a tree could not have grown without the earth feeding
it). When he finds that everything is *there* in the tree, he is
recognizing the tree as a presence that connects him to all of these, a
presence that co-presences.  The tree seems very much like a Peircean sign
in these teachings. Perhaps it is more of a later Peircean sign--mediating
and extending rather than "standing for."  Perhaps it illustrates why
Peirce later rejected the concept of representation as an apt
characterization of everything he wanted to include in his notion of a
triadic relation and turned instead to mediation.  In any case, clearly
Hahn appreciates the indexicality inherent in the tree's being in these
teachings.

I also find Hanh aligned with Peirce when Hahn teaches that "the present is
made of the past" and that the future must grow from the "seeds" of the
present.  When he says that we can "touch the past" only when we are living
fully in the present moment--it is hard to imagine how this kind of
experience could be anything other than irreducibly triadic.

With gratitude,
Sally

On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 8:56 AM  wrote:

> Since the list has been fairly quiet lately, some Peirceans might be
> interested in a newly revised part of *Turning Signs* which explores some
> of the connections (and apparent contradictions) among Peircean semiotics,
> phaneroscopy, Buddhist sutras and meditation practices. This part/point is
> here  — it includes so many
> internal links that I thought it better to just post the one link to the
> whole thing. It also includes an explanation of Peirce’s statement (c.
> 1901 ) that “a sign is not a
> real thing,” which has evoked some discussion on the list before, but is
> recontextualized here.
>
> Gary f.
>
>
> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
> ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON
> PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to
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> message and nothing in the body.  More at
> https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/help/user-signoff.html .
> ► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP;  moderated by Gary Richmond;  and
> co-managed by him and Ben Udell.
>


-- 

*Sally Ann Allen Ness, Professor*

*Anthropology Department*

*University of California*
*Riverside, CA  92521*

*We at UCR would like to respectfully acknowledge and recognize our
responsibility to the original and current caretakers of this land, water,
and air: the Cahuilla [ka-wee-ahh], Tongva [tong-va], Luiseño
[loo-say-ngo], and Serrano [se-ran-oh] peoples and all of their ancestors
and descendants, past, present, and future. Today this meeting place is
home to many Indigenous peoples from all over the world, including UCR
faculty, students, and staff, and we are grateful to have the opportunity
to live and work on these homelands. *
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[PEIRCE-L] thoughts, signs and things

[gnox]

Since the list has been fairly quiet lately, some Peirceans might be
interested in a newly revised part of Turning Signs which explores some of
the connections (and apparent contradictions) among Peircean semiotics,
phaneroscopy, Buddhist sutras and meditation practices. This part/point is
here   - it includes so many internal
links that I thought it better to just post the one link to the whole thing.
It also includes an explanation of Peirce's statement (c. 1901
 ) that "a sign is not a real
thing," which has evoked some discussion on the list before, but is
recontextualized here.

Gary f.

 

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► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON 
PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . 
► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu 
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body.  More at https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/help/user-signoff.html .
► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP;  moderated by Gary Richmond;  and 
co-managed by him and Ben Udell.