Re: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 30
Gary F, list I think that IF one is suggesting that earlier posts by Peirce are less valid explanations of his thought than later posts - I think that such an assertion requires evidence. I don't see how the 7.581 quotation contradicts Peirce's later outlines of the 'order' of experience and learning. Edwina On Sun 22/08/21 4:34 PM , g...@gnusystems.ca sent: Edwina, I think we should note that De Tienne follows chronological order in his presentation of Peirce quotes in this part of his talk, but the chapter of CP 7 that you are quoting from strings together a number of texts from widely separated periods in Peirce’s life, and in complete disregard of chronology. CP 7.581 (near the end of your post) is from Lecture XI of Peirce’s Lowell Lectures (W1:493) dated November 1866, so it is even earlier than his “New List of Categories” (1867). Peirce’s ideas (and of course his terminology) changed considerably over the following 30-odd years, and we can’t ignore this if we want to properly interpret what he wrote about phenomenology and phaneroscopy from 1902 onward. As always, context matters. Gary f. From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu On Behalf Of Edwina Taborsky Sent: 22-Aug-21 10:19 To: peirce-l@list.iupui.edu Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 30 List To my understanding, what De Tienne seems to be talking about in this and subsequent slides [and I don't think one can separate them], with his reference to Experience is what Peirce refers to as Consciousness. He also writes that 'consciousness is also used to denote what I call feeling" 7.586 and 'man's feelings are perceptions, he is affected by objects' 7.587, and "Perception is the possibility of acquiring information, of meaning more". That is, of learning. What is learning? Peirce writes "all learning is virtually reasoning; we have only to reflect that the mere experience of a sense-reaction is not learning. That is only something from which something can be learned, by interpreting it. The interpretation is the learning" 7.536 Peirce provides us with three elements of consciousness, Feeling, Altersense and Medisense [akin to the Three Categories] 7.551, but these are not acts of learning. Consciousness can classify, by grouping perceptions within the element of Medisense, but can it Interpret? Instead, my understanding is that, as Peirce writes, we must discriminate "between an inductive and a hypothetic explanation of the facts of human life. We have seen that every fact requires two kinds of explanation; the one proceeds by induction to replace its subject by a wider one, the other proceeds by hypothesis to replace its predicate by a deeper one. We have seen that these two explanations never coincide that both are indispensable….7.581 I interpret or misinterpret this to mean that Consciousness is the action within the phaneroscopy and operates within the three modes as outlined in 7.551 et al, which is that of primarily acknowledging the 'percepts', and associating or classifying them, and Mathematics provides the hypothetical explanations, which makes them 'teleological or purposive.7.570. I don't see this outline within De Tienne - but - perhaps I am 'misinterpreting' him. Edwina _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . ► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L in the SUBJECT LINE of the message and nothing in the body. More at https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/help/user-signoff.html . ► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP; moderated by Gary Richmond; and co-managed by him and Ben Udell.
RE: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 30
Edwina, I think we should note that De Tienne follows chronological order in his presentation of Peirce quotes in this part of his talk, but the chapter of CP 7 that you are quoting from strings together a number of texts from widely separated periods in Peirce’s life, and in complete disregard of chronology. CP 7.581 (near the end of your post) is from Lecture XI of Peirce’s Lowell Lectures (W1:493) dated November 1866, so it is even earlier than his “New List of Categories” (1867). Peirce’s ideas (and of course his terminology) changed considerably over the following 30-odd years, and we can’t ignore this if we want to properly interpret what he wrote about phenomenology and phaneroscopy from 1902 onward. As always, context matters. Gary f. From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu On Behalf Of Edwina Taborsky Sent: 22-Aug-21 10:19 To: peirce-l@list.iupui.edu Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 30 List To my understanding, what De Tienne seems to be talking about in this and subsequent slides [and I don't think one can separate them], with his reference to Experience is what Peirce refers to as Consciousness. He also writes that 'consciousness is also used to denote what I call feeling" 7.586 and 'man's feelings are perceptions, he is affected by objects' 7.587, and "Perception is the possibility of acquiring information, of meaning more". That is, of learning. What is learning? Peirce writes "all learning is virtually reasoning; we have only to reflect that the mere experience of a sense-reaction is not learning. That is only something from which something can be learned, by interpreting it. The interpretation is the learning" 7.536 Peirce provides us with three elements of consciousness, Feeling, Altersense and Medisense [akin to the Three Categories] 7.551, but these are not acts of learning. Consciousness can classify, by grouping perceptions within the element of Medisense, but can it Interpret? Instead, my understanding is that, as Peirce writes, we must discriminate "between an inductive and a hypothetic explanation of the facts of human life. We have seen that every fact requires two kinds of explanation; the one proceeds by induction to replace its subject by a wider one, the other proceeds by hypothesis to replace its predicate by a deeper one. We have seen that these two explanations never coincide that both are indispensable….7.581 I interpret or misinterpret this to mean that Consciousness is the action within the phaneroscopy and operates within the three modes as outlined in 7.551 et al, which is that of primarily acknowledging the 'percepts', and associating or classifying them, and Mathematics provides the hypothetical explanations, which makes them 'teleological or purposive.7.570. I don't see this outline within De Tienne - but - perhaps I am 'misinterpreting' him. Edwina _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . ► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L in the SUBJECT LINE of the message and nothing in the body. More at https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/help/user-signoff.html . ► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP; moderated by Gary Richmond; and co-managed by him and Ben Udell.
Re: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 30
List To my understanding, what De Tienne seems to be talking about in this and subsequent slides [and I don't think one can separate them], with his reference to Experience is what Peirce refers to as Consciousness. He also writes that 'consciousness is also used to denote what I call feeling" 7.586 and 'man's feelings are perceptions, he is affected by objects' 7.587, and "Perception is the possibility of acquiring information, of meaning more". That is, of learning. What is learning? Peirce writes "all learning is virtually reasoning; we have only to reflect that the mere experience of a sense-reaction is not learning. That is only something from which something can be learned, by interpreting it. The interpretation is the learning" 7.536 Peirce provides us with three elements of consciousness, Feeling, Altersense and Medisense [akin to the Three Categories] 7.551, but these are not acts of learning. Consciousness can classify, by grouping perceptions within the element of Medisense, but can it Interpret? Instead, my understanding is that, as Peirce writes, we must discriminate "between an inductive and a hypothetic explanation of the facts of human life. We have seen that every fact requires two kinds of explanation; the one proceeds by induction to replace its subject by a wider one, the other proceeds by hypothesis to replace its predicate by a deeper one. We have seen that these two explanations never coincide that both are indispensable….7.581 I interpret or misinterpret this to mean that Consciousness is the action within the phaneroscopy and operates within the three modes as outlined in 7.551 et al, which is that of primarily acknowledging the 'percepts', and associating or classifying them, and Mathematics provides the hypothetical explanations, which makes them 'teleological or purposive.7.570. I don't see this outline within De Tienne - but - perhaps I am 'misinterpreting' him. Edwina On Sun 22/08/21 8:43 AM , g...@gnusystems.ca sent: Continuing our slow read on phaneroscopy, here is the next slide of André De Tienne’s slideshow posted on the Peirce Edition Project (iupui.edu) [1] site. This slide continues from slide 29, just posted, and continues the Peirce quotation in it. Gary f. Text: And that MISSING LINK has to do with EXPERIENCE: CP 7.527: What is the experience upon which high philosophy is based? For any one of the special sciences, experience is that which the observational art of that science directly reveals. This is connected with and assimilated to knowledge already in our possession and otherwise derived, and thereby receives an interpretation, or theory. But in philosophy there is no SPECIAL observational art, and there is no knowledge antecedently acquired in the light of which experience is to be interpreted. The interpretation itself is experience. [ ... ] In high philosophy, experience is the entire cognitive result of living, and illusion is, for its purposes, just as much experience as is real perception. Links: -- [1] https://peirce.iupui.edu/publications.html#presentations _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . ► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L in the SUBJECT LINE of the message and nothing in the body. More at https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/help/user-signoff.html . ► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP; moderated by Gary Richmond; and co-managed by him and Ben Udell.
