Re: Problems of the Left in North America
Lou called me a Tawat on pen-l, yesterday. Whatta loon. Michael Pugliese, Twatskyist 5/10/02 7:03:00 AM, Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 03:37 AM 5/10/2002 -0500, Dr. Paul Stevenson wrote: Louis Proyect has taken a potshot at Ellen Meiksins Wood, Leo Panitch and Cloin Leys and has provided absolutely no evidence as to why such a potshot is justified. He has accused Wood of being intellectually lazy and has basically stated that the Socialist Register (edited by Panitch and Leys) as not being on the left, or on the socialist left, or, much less, on the Marxist left. Again, absolutely no evidence in support of such a position is offered. Whether or not, any or all of these individuals is an enemy of Marxism and stalling the class struggle might be a debatable point (all in my view are strong Marxists and strong supporters of a radical leftwing socialism regardless of the comradely disagreements we each might have with what their respective positions on this or that might be [frankly, much of what each and all have written and said I find myself in agreement with]). Frankly, we on the left (especially in North America) need to find all the common ground we can and we certainly do not need to throw out insulting epithets at people and not provide some really good documentation for doing so. -- Reply: I am not sure what you mean by potshot. I described Socialist Register as a general interest social democratic journal. Since Leon Panitch, one of the co-editors, has argued forcefully against what he calls Leninism, I am not sure what the problem is. Oh, I think I know. It is rather fashionable on the left academy to make fire and brimstone speeches about the evils of capitalism, but it is not so fashionable to actually roll up your sleeves and construct Marxist organizations. I find it vastly amusing that such figures as the SR editors, Immanuel Wallerstein, Barbara Epstein, Slavoj Zizek and Michael Hardt end up giving speeches on how to make a revolution. I don't think any of them ever made a leaflet in their illustrious lives. As far as Wood is concerned, I have replied to both her and Brenner on my own email list: 1. The Brenner Thesis 2. The Brenner Thesis, Ireland and Spain 3. The Brenner Thesis as Iberiantalism 4. Testing the Brenner Thesis Against Colonial Spain and Modern South Africa All of these are located at: http://www.columbia.edu/~lnp3/mydocs/economics.htm along with a review of the late Jim Blaut's 8 Eurocentric Historians that appeared in Socialism and Democracy originally. I began to take an interest in the Brenner Thesis after running into Jim on Marxmail, where we became very close politically. As far as Colin Leys is concerned, I had a running exchange with him that can be found at: http://www.mail-archive.com/marxism%40lists.panix.com/msg29637.html John Enyang, a Kenyan graduate student, also replied to him as follows: Colin Leys wrote: 2) The reaction against the then prevailing dependency interpretation of African development was more linked to Lenin's critique of the narodniks than to Marx's Preface to Volume 1 of Capital. In particular the dependentistas tended, as Lenin said the narodniks did, to picture capitalism as something existing in a few 'corners' of the economy, i.e. foreign-owned plants and estates and their penumbra of financial and other services, plus the ports and the railway system, and to see the rest of the economy as consisting of precapitalist social relations, capable of supporting some sort of non-capitalist alternative development path. By the mid-1950's the large majority of the Kenyan population had been either (i) expropriated of their land by the settlers who turned them into wage labourers on their plantations or (ii) been forced into the cash economy and through devices like hut-taxes and head-taxes imposed by the Britishers to stimulate the interest of the otherwise reluctant natives in export cash crops -- coffee, tea. [Exceptions to this would be pastoral peoples in the rather sparsely populated regions like Turkana, who retained relative autonomy from the colonial economy]. In the words of a character of Ngugi, 'the foreigner from Europe was cunning: he took their land and their sweat and their wealth [livestock], and told them that the coins he had brought, which could not be eaten, were the true wealth'. Of course a lot of Kenyan capitalists are dependent on foreign capital, as - nowadays - are a lot of British, Canadian, and even American capitalists, though much less so of course. A most peculiar statement. The relations which exist between say German and Japanese capital are in no way comparable with the relation between British capital and the Kenyan elites. Nor would anybody in their right mind would argue that the German capitalist class has no independent existence beyond acting as the local business agent of Japanese capital. But this is a good approximation to the
Re: Re: Problems of the Left in North America
At 07:51 AM 5/10/2002 -0700, Michael Pugliese wrote: Lou called me a Tawat on pen-l, yesterday. Whatta loon. Michael Pugliese, Twatskyist I don't understand how Michael Pugliese has become so confused. He is responding to an exchange I had on PSN, not PEN-L, number one. Number two, if you check the PEN-L archives (http://csf.colorado.edu/mail/pen-l/2002II/), you will find no such reference to me or anybody for that matter calling him a Tawat. Isn't there some way that PEN-L can be protected from these disruptions? Louis Proyect Marxism mailing list: http://www.marxmail.org
Re: Re: Re: Problems of the Left in North America
You called me a Twat. I mistyped, you !@#$%^*()_+ Michael Pugliese see the final part of the below. You are a twat. Louis Proyect Marxism mailing list: http:/ / www.marxmail.org 5/10/02 8:03:25 AM, Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Display all headers From: Michael Pugliese [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 21:58:42 -0700 Subject: Lou Calls Me a Twat The juvenile, bullying windbag is really in need of yrs. of psychoanalysis from Joel Kovel. Michael Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 15:48:36 -0400 From: Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [PEN-L:25828] Re: Re: on the , axis of EEEevil (Richard Burton in Exorcist II) To: michael pugliese [EMAIL PROTECTED] Apologies for my recent extreme obnoxiousness, first to all. Even, Lou, who I have learned more than a few things over the yrs. But, that said, what is the Howrad stern of the internet Left doing talking about manners? The king of scatology on alt.politics.socialism.trotsky newsgroup. My position on Cuban socialism, briefly. As a left Shactmanite I'd call it bureucrtic collectivism, as an oerthodox trot I'd say it's a deformed workers state in need of political revolutiuon from below which would strengthen the political base of the regime against the presures of the world market and the USG. Opposed to the embargo, in favor of a careful perestroika style opening of the the system without demogogic attacks on the internal opposition as purely the creation of the CIA and CANF. If Lou has ever seen the documentary by Nestor Alemendros on Cuba that interviews many exiled Cuban Communists he would have a more nuanced, less defensive p.o.v. that might generate more respect for his p.o.v. --- Original Message --- You are a twat. Louis Proyect Marxism mailing list: http:/ / www.marxmail.org 5/10/02 8:03:25 AM, Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 07:51 AM 5/10/2002 -0700, Michael Pugliese wrote: Lou called me a Tawat on pen-l, yesterday. Whatta loon. Michael Pugliese, Twatskyist I don't understand how Michael Pugliese has become so confused. He is responding to an exchange I had on PSN, not PEN-L, number one. Number two, if you check the PEN-L archives (http://csf.colorado.edu/mail/pen-l/2002II/), you will find no such reference to me or anybody for that matter calling him a Tawat. Isn't there some way that PEN-L can be protected from these disruptions? Louis Proyect Marxism mailing list: http://www.marxmail.org http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Proyect%27s+Morninghl=enie=utf-8oe=utf-8 selm=appar-131019991918198657%40pm3-9-s33.traverse.netrnum=3 Groups Advanced Groups SearchGroups Help Groups search result 3 for Proyect's Morning From: uchural ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Search Result 3 Subject: f loves Proyect Newsgroups: alt.politics.socialism.trotsky View: Complete Thread (2 articles) | Original Format Date: 1999/10/13 Some people might regard being compared with Proyect as high praise. Jim F. For those of you who have not had a chance to read them, I submit Proyect's Morning and The Resume of Louis N. Proyect: PROYECT'S MORNING Subject: Proyect's Morning From: uchural Newsgroups: alt.politics.socialism.trotsky Date: Wed, Jul 7, 1999 11:36 AM Message-ID: Not even noon, and Columbia University's computers have churned out the following for the world to read: The Morally Filthy Louis N. Proyect Has a Busy Morning _ You miserable dirty little cunt the same fucking rot You miserable little mother-fucker Get cancer, you little prick You have a lot of fucking nerve quoting Rosa Luxemburg People like yourself who champion Ayn Rand, the Cato Institute, and Wall Street Journal editorials are no different than the social democratic scum who murdered Luxemburg and Liebknecht libertarian scum like yourself are good for nothing except defending corporate profits Therefore, you should get your slimy little ass off this newsgroup and someplace where you belong Go there, you little slug, and take your co-religionist Airdale with you No, what would help is if you took a pistol and stuck the barrel in your mouth and opened fire your excesses are driving many people into fantasizing about plunging knitting needles into your eyeballs You are nothing but a scumbag troll like Watson, aren't you Are you masochistically inclined Do you have the same sickness as Watson who probably masturbates after getting flamed THE RESUME OF LOUIS N. PROYECT You should seek out professional help Oh, big fucking deal obvious that Mor Cota/Big Mac/Justin Flude would piss on Hunter do you have a problem with reading comprehension you are so fucking out of it some sort of problem with your mental capacities Are you an alcoholic under the influence of alcohol an uneducated rustic who can must suffer from blackouts dumber than the cat he owns an illiterate clown incapable of understanding do you put on clown makeup
