Re: Re: Re: Chavez Returns
Bush and his State Dept. should be pinned to the wall on this. Charles Jannuzi = By who, space aliens? Ian 'Should be' should be 'will be', but it won't be. 'Should be' should be 'can be', but it probably won't be. Still, with Chavez's reversal of fortunes, and with even many conservatives there backing their constitution, I'm waiting for another miracle. CEJ
RE: RE: Re: Chavez Returns
I'd say it is safe to assume there are spooks and para's there already. The only question is what villainy they will be up to next. mbs what's the US going to do if Chavez is definitely back in power? send in troops? The Bush League has been trying to instantly reestablish the state of affairs which prevailed when men were men, the US dominated the Free World with military bases all over the place, we controlled our oil with a vengeance, and Senator Joe McCarthy was criticized only for going too far. They've been doing it very quickly and it's hard to imagine they can spare troops to send to Venezuela. JD
RE: Re: Re: Chavez?
Odds are that somewhere there is a WB or IMF study on the inadequacy, pre-Chavez, of the Venez oil enterprise. Pity anyone who takes such concerns seriously, apart from political context. -- mbs LP: . . . Actually, the conflict with the oil union arose over Chavez's determination to clean house at the state-owned company. He accused executives of owning luxurious chalets in the Venezuelan Andes and other excesses and has said the company's costs must be cut and its benefits spread to the 80 percent of Venezuelans who live in poverty. On April 7th the Washington Post reported that Chavez had installed a board of directors loyal to him and named a leftist economist, Gaston Parra, as president. Parra had criticized company policies for two decades. Company executives were outraged by the moves. Hundreds of managers demanded that the appointments be rescinded, arguing that Chavez's changes were based on politics rather than merit.
RE: Re: Re: Chavez?
Message: 10 Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 09:22:47 +0100 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Chris Burford [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Marxism-Thaxis] Chavez returns Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Welcome scenes on CNN of the return of Chavez to the Presidential Palace. The situation obviously still remains dangerous. In terms of how the risk of such coups against radical democratic governments should be avoided, I note that An Imminent Coup in Venezuela written by Gregory Wilpert on 10th April argued Chavez' greatest failure, from a progressive point of view, probably lies in his relatively autocratic style, which is why many of his former supporters have become alienated from his government. Whenever someone opposed his policies he has tended to reject them and cast them out of his government circle. The result has been a consistent loss of a relatively broad political spectrum of government leadership and a significant turn-over in his cabinet, making stable and consistent policy implementation quite difficult. This loss of broad-based support has made itself felt particularly strongly during the recent crises, making Chavez look more isolated than he might otherwise be. Other than his party supporters, who are quite significant in number and come mostly from the poor barrios, the progressive sectors of civil society have been neglected by Chavez and have thus not been active. Instead, the conservative sectors of civil society, such as the chamber of commerce and the old guard union leadership are among the main mobilizers of civil society. There is now talk of middle class leaving Venzuela, and presumably capital is fleeing even more rapidly out of the country. On the other hand it was the determination of his supporters who demonstrated outside the presidential palace yesterday, and the determination of the presidential guard not to give up without a fight to the death, that probably led to the resignation of the imposed president Carmona within one day. These are traditional qualities of the proletariat, courage and resolution in crisis. The situation is a contradiction, and should be analysed as a contradiction. The forces of Chavez would have every right now to impose a dictatorship of the proletariat, hopefully nuanced in the way Hal Draper has argued, as emergency dicatatorial powers. There are already reports that the events of the last few days have exposed who is a true friend of Chavez and who is not. There must be scores to settle. At the same time the return to the palace must have been the result of some deals and compromises. It may be a good sign that Chavez resisted the temptation to make an immediate revolutionary statement outside the palace. I agree with Louis Proyect's reservations about the concept of civil society. It too is a contradiction. Originally used in a somewhat negative sense by Marx, it has been used by Gramscian supporters as a potentially positive arena for struggle. IMO Wilpert uses it in a dialectical sense referring to progressive and conservative attitudes to civil society. The good news of this year is that militant street demonstations in Argentina and Venezuela can force the fall of a government. The bad news is that the balance of forces in the world overwhelmingly favours finance capital and its supporters in each country. A progressive regime needs both a resolute core of supporters, and the ability to defuse the opposition, if not win over the great majority of the population. That IMO opinion points to the need for an agenda that is not exclusively socialist, but is new democratic, embracing civil rights issues but from a progressive social perspective. Let us hope Chavez can stay and this has an impact on the global balance of forces. Chris Burford --__--__-- Message: 11 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 20:54:06 +1200 Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Chavez returns Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 14 Apr 2002 at 9:22, Chris Burford wrote: The forces of Chavez would have every right now to impose a dictatorship of the proletariat, hopefully nuanced in the way Hal Draper has argued, as emergency dicatatorial powers. There are already reports that the events of the last few days have exposed who is a true friend of Chavez and who is not. There must be scores to settle. What are you talking about Chris. Chavez styles himself as a 'Bolivarian' i.e. he wants to finish the bourgeois revolution only. And as you suggest he will do a deal with imperialism rather than fight for this goal consistently. His supporters do not yet understand that and oppose the undemocratic coup full of illusions in democracy. The dicatorship of the proletariat requires a mass consciousness of workers and poor peasants sufficient to take power. I agree with Louis Proyect's
Re: RE: Re: Re: Chavez?
Lou, what about the union? What was its beef? On Sun, Apr 14, 2002 at 01:33:45PM -0400, Max B. Sawicky wrote: Odds are that somewhere there is a WB or IMF study on the inadequacy, pre-Chavez, of the Venez oil enterprise. Pity anyone who takes such concerns seriously, apart from political context. -- mbs LP: . . . Actually, the conflict with the oil union arose over Chavez's determination to clean house at the state-owned company. He accused executives of owning luxurious chalets in the Venezuelan Andes and other excesses and has said the company's costs must be cut and its benefits spread to the 80 percent of Venezuelans who live in poverty. On April 7th the Washington Post reported that Chavez had installed a board of directors loyal to him and named a leftist economist, Gaston Parra, as president. Parra had criticized company policies for two decades. Company executives were outraged by the moves. Hundreds of managers demanded that the appointments be rescinded, arguing that Chavez's changes were based on politics rather than merit. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: Chavez?
On Sun, 14 Apr 2002 13:23:09 -0700, Michael Perelman wrote: Lou, what about the union? What was its beef? Riots Against Venezuelan Oil Union Rock Monagas Drillbits Tailings Volume 4, Number 7 May 3, 1999 Riots have plagued Venezuela's oil towns following the killing in March of Rolando Marcano, an unemployed worker who decided to challenge the power of the oil unions. Venezuela, the third largest oil exporting country in the world, has traditionally given Fedepetrol and Fetrahidrocarburos -- the two big oil union federations -- the power to distribute six out of every ten jobs in the oil industry. These two unions have enjoyed this privilege because of their close ties to the two-party ruling establishment which has shared power since 1958. In towns like El Tejero, in the eastern state of Monagas, residents say Jose Vicente Pereira, their local union leader, has ruled the town for 25 years like a personal fiefdom, handing out jobs in exchange for bribes, building a business empire with the proceeds and founding his own political party allied to state government. There is enough wealth here to satisfy all the pressure for work. But unfortunately those who have reached positions of power only want to make money instead of serve the public, said Conrado Penaloza, a local member of parliament. Do you know what oil left here? Hungry children without fathers, because they (migrant oil workers) would come from outside, get our women pregnant and then leave, said Eduardo Patete, an agricultural worker. Both Penaloza and Patete are members of the political party of Hugo Chavez, a former army paratrooper who was elected president of the country earlier this year in a landslide vote, after promising to stamp out corruption. Fedepetrol and Fetrahidrocarburos voluntarily gave up their job distribution privileges at Chavez's request. Emboldened by the national union's promises, Marcano joined some unemployed men seeking to overturn Pereira's powerful union in El Tejero. Unfortunately Marcano was shot and killed in March at Schlumberger's Rig 78 on the edge of town when his group was attacked by an angry mob of armed unionists, led by Pereira's son, Nanin. Since then Maturin, the Monagas capital, has been rocked by street violence as angry mobs attacked the State Legislative Assembly building and looted a Punta de Mata supermarket. Monagas State Congress president, Jose Boada has laid the blame for the riots squarely on the shoulders of Luis Ortiz, head of the unemployed oil workers committee, who wants the Assembly to strip Pereira of his parliamentary immunity, to face charges in the slaying. In related news, environmentalists are hoping that the new Venezuelan government will support their causes with Chavez's surprise appointment of Atala Uriana Pocaterra, a Wayuu indigenous leader and professor, to the position of environment minister. Her first act was to pledge to fight logging and mining interests. SOURCES: Death taints suspect Venezuelan oil union By Tom Ashby, Reuters, April 28, 1999. National Guard (GN) called in to quell riots and looting VHeadline.com (Venezuela's Electronic News) April 8, 1999. State of Emergency in Monagas -- One dead, 15 wounded! VHeadline.com (Venezuela's Electronic News) March 26, 1999. First Indian cabinet member in Venezuela stirs hopes and fears By Bart Jones, Associated Press, May 1, 1999. -- Louis Proyect, [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 04/14/2002 Marxism list: http://www.marxmail.org
Re: RE: Re: Chavez Returns
au contraire, Jim. Conquering Venezuela will make the war next door easier. On Sun, Apr 14, 2002 at 09:02:04AM -0700, Devine, James wrote: what's the US going to do if Chavez is definitely back in power? send in troops? The Bush League has been trying to instantly reestablish the state of affairs which prevailed when men were men, the US dominated the Free World with military bases all over the place, we controlled our oil with a vengeance, and Senator Joe McCarthy was criticized only for going too far. They've been doing it very quickly and it's hard to imagine they can spare troops to send to Venezuela. JD -Original Message- From: Michael Perelman To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 4/14/02 8:02 AM Subject: [PEN-L:24895] Re: Chavez Returns I feel very small sitting here at the keyboard thinking about what people on the street have accomplished in Venez. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
