Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: [weisbrot-columns] Not Exactly FreeTrade

2000-05-08 Thread Brad De Long

Michael P writes:
Roger M. will do ok either way.  Just because it is in his interest 
to oppose such arrangements does not make the opposition irrational.

it's important to avoid Brad's style of argument here, which seems 
similar to guilt-by-association: If Roger Milliken (boo, hiss) is 
for something, it _must be_ bad. That's like saying that just 
because Farrakan or the UC-Berkeley economics department is for 
something, it must be wrong.


Jim Devine

BULLSHIT!!!

Michael Perelman said that he was opposed to AGOA because capital was 
internationally mobile--hence the beneficiaries from AGOA are not 
(African) labor but (American) capital.

I pointed out that Roger Milliken--American textile capital--thinks 
that AGOA is not in his material interest, suggesting that (as I 
believe) the beneficiaries from AGOA will be (among others) African 
labor.

No guilt-by-association.




Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: [weisbrot-columns] Not Exactly FreeTrade

2000-05-08 Thread Jim Devine

Michael P writes:
Roger M. will do ok either way.  Just because it is in his interest to 
oppose such arrangements does not make the opposition irrational.

I wrote:
it's important to avoid Brad's style of argument here, which seems 
similar to guilt-by-association: If Roger Milliken (boo, hiss) is for 
something, it _must be_ bad. That's like saying that just because 
Farrakan or the UC-Berkeley economics department is for something, it 
must be wrong.

Brad writes:

BULLSHIT!!!

wow.

Michael Perelman said that he was opposed to AGOA because capital was 
internationally mobile--hence the beneficiaries from AGOA are not 
(African) labor but (American) capital.

That makes sense, in that as soon as the African laborers start getting 
significant wage-gains, capital will move on to greener pastures. Of 
course, fixed capital isn't totally mobile, so in the meantime, the 
interested capitalists would support explicitly anti-labor governments that 
repress unions and suppress wages. As part of this, they would use the 
threat of capital mobility to avoid need to actually move capital (as they 
do in the US).

In addition, the mobility of capital would speed up the commercialization 
of agriculture, which would imply an amply supply of labor to the cities, 
keeping wages down.

I pointed out that Roger Milliken--American textile capital--thinks that 
AGOA is not in his material interest, suggesting that (as I believe) the 
beneficiaries from AGOA will be (among others) African labor.
No guilt-by-association.

Wait a sec! the logic of this is that RM is against AGOA, then it _must_ be 
good for others. Suppose that he's against flying the Confederate flag on 
the S. Carolina statehouse. In that case, would it be good for others to 
fly it? I don't know about his position on that issue, so turn to a 
different one: I am sure that RM is against the "expropriation of the 
expropriators" (which includes capitalists such as himself). Does that mean 
that it's good for others to expropriate the capitalists' assets? I'd say 
so (if it's done in the right way), but I doubt that you say so.

Thus, using RM's position to justify your favoring of free trade _is_ akin 
to a guilt-by-association argument. (Because a special interest like RM is 
against AGOA, it must go against the public interest, however defined.) 
Instead of using his opposition to AGOA as part of your argument in favor 
of that act, you should argue that the act is good in itself.

BTW, I myself have a bias in favor of free trade. But unlike orthodox 
economists, for whom this bias seems like the only consideration, I have 
other biases which keep things in balance.

On this issue, I don't know if I ever told pen-l about a cousin who works 
for Pat Buchanan (as a "think" tanker). He's against free trade because it 
leads to rising class antagonism and disrupts society.

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://liberalarts.lmu.edu/~jdevine




Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: Re: [weisbrot-columns] Not Exactly FreeTrade

2000-05-08 Thread Jim Devine


No more unknown governors from small southern states...

How about senators from small southern states who are known only because of 
the success of their 1992 running mates (and who have been simply following 
orders for the last 7 years) or governors from large southern states who 
are known because of their fathers' fame?

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://liberalarts.lmu.edu/~jdevine




Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: [weisbrot-columns] Not Exactly FreeTrade

2000-05-08 Thread Mine Aysen Doyran

actually, there is hardly any opposition to neo-liberal program in the US.
United Steel Workers already allied with big steel industry to protect US jobs,
thanks to bourgeois unions. Free trade and protectionism are the sides of the
same coin=imperialism, capitalism and core hegemony, which is part of the US
strategy of "divide and rule" for centuries.

I think US liberal acedemics, especially of the pro-free trade kind, should stop
idealizing what they don't have.. or they should seriously think about why
socialism does not work in this part of the universe.


Mine

Jim Devine wrote:

 -- If the US capitalist class and its government thinks that free trade
 (and more importantly, free mobility of capital) is so all-fired important
 why don't they pay US workers to compensate for the inevitable costs of
 freeing up trade? This would undermine the opposition to their neo-liberal
 program.



Mine Aysen Doyran
PhD Student
Department of Political Science
SUNY at Albany
Nelson A. Rockefeller College
135 Western Ave.; Milne 102
Albany, NY 1




Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: Re: [weisbrot-columns] Not Exactly FreeTrade

2000-05-08 Thread JKSCHW

In a message dated 00-05-08 18:36:14 EDT, you write:

 No more unknown governors from small southern states... 

What about relatively well known ex-Senators from small Southern states, 
Brad? --jks