RE: Re: Re: neo-Ricardian economics

2000-09-25 Thread Forstater, Mathew

This is also Frank Hahn's argument, as I understand it.  But Sraffian prices are
determined independently of demand. Now I suppose that one could set up one's
argument so that such a difference was presented as a "special case" -- a
"special case" where demand doesn't play any role, etc.-- but such a fundamental
difference seem to me to constitute more than that.  In Sraffa there are no
demand curves for "factors"--there is no functional relationship between the
real wage and the demand for labor or the interest rate and the demand for
"capital".  Equating equilibrium analysis with the analysis of conditions of
social reproduction is missing something very important, imho. Mat


From: Jim Devine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

(Gil Skillman has argued on pen-l that the 
neo-Ricardian apparatus is merely a special case of the Arrow-Debreu-Walras 
theory, but I don't know if I'd go that far.)




Re: RE: Re: Re: neo-Ricardian economics

2000-09-25 Thread Michael Perelman

The difference seems to be that Sraffian prices are decidedly long run.  That is why
the supply curves are horizontal.  The Arrow-Debreu-Walras has no time whatsoever,
or all time is collapsed into a perfectly anticipated view of the future.


"Forstater, Mathew" wrote:

 This is also Frank Hahn's argument, as I understand it.  But Sraffian prices are
 determined independently of demand. Now I suppose that one could set up one's
 argument so that such a difference was presented as a "special case" -- a
 "special case" where demand doesn't play any role, etc.-- but such a fundamental
 difference seem to me to constitute more than that.  In Sraffa there are no
 demand curves for "factors"--there is no functional relationship between the
 real wage and the demand for labor or the interest rate and the demand for
 "capital".  Equating equilibrium analysis with the analysis of conditions of
 social reproduction is missing something very important, imho. Mat

 From: Jim Devine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

 (Gil Skillman has argued on pen-l that the
 neo-Ricardian apparatus is merely a special case of the Arrow-Debreu-Walras
 theory, but I don't know if I'd go that far.)

--

Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Chico, CA 95929
530-898-5321
fax 530-898-5901




Re: neo-Ricardian economics

2000-09-22 Thread JKSCHW

Yeah, we post-Sraffans always get this from believers in the LTV: "It's too deep you 
someone with your analytical equipment to understand." No doubt. but HK have a 
sympathetic thoughvery critical treatment of what is living and dead in the TLV in 
their The Political Economy of Marx, 2d ed. They argue taht it fails as a  
quantitative theory of price or an account of crisis, but is valuable as qualitative 
way of indicating that capiatlism is exploitative. However, that way of accepting the 
LTV means giving up talk of "value magnitudes" and that sort of thing. In fact, one 
might almost just as well  say that capitalism is exploitative and leave it at that. I 
have argued why you might want to say a bit more in a paper on What's Wrong with 
Exploitation? Nous 1995. --jks

In a message dated Fri, 22 Sep 2000 11:51:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Jim Devine 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 [Re: [PEN-L:2154] Re: Re: Re: a profound comment on the "transformation 
problem"]

I wrote:
 His main point seems to be a relatively common-sense explanation of 
the  "solution" to the "transformation problem" that Fred Moseley 
advocates. See  the latter's article in the current _Review of Radical 
Political Economics_  or in the book he edited, _Marx's Method in 
Capital_. It's a very simple  solution, basically saying that there's no 
problem at all, since prices and  values normally differ, but total prices 
= total value, while total  property income = total surplus-value. 

Justin responds:
For a crisp demolition of this "solution," see M.C. Howard and J.E. King, A
History of Marxian Economics, vol II., pp. 276-80. --jks

I don't want to get into a debate on this issue, but my impression from 
reading (and writing book reviews of ) both volumes of that book is that 
Howard and King do not understand the "labor theory of value" at all. They 
implicitly assume that Marx was simply presenting a gloss on Ricardo (as 
Paul Samuelson, Ian Steedman, Jon Elster, and many others do). That is, 
they assume that the bear that Marx was hunting for was some sort of theory 
of prices, as with Ricardo's 98 percent labor theory of prices. They don't 
even ask what the purpose of Marx's work was here! (This is partly due to 
the way that many of Marx's followers often use the phrases "labor theory 
of value" or "law of value" without defining what they mean.)

Since I reject their assumption that Marx was a minor post-Ricardian on 
these issues, I find their analysis to be basically irrelevant (though 
they're entitled to their point of view).

However, their survey of the literature is valuable. (It's a dirty job and 
someone's got to do it. I especially liked their stuff on little-known 
Marxian political economists.)

However2, heir summary of the rational core of Marxian political economy at 
the end of volume II is a little sad (p. 394). It's dealing with:

(1) the inescapable class nature of capitalist society;
(2) the problems of reproducing that society over time;
(3) the contradictions of the system (which seems to be a restatement of 
#2); and
(4) the concept of uneven development.

To their credit, though they don't say so, this list excludes 
Ricardo-Sraffa (neo-Ricardian) economics from Marxian political economy, 
since R-S economics simply assumes away problems of reproduction and issues 
of uneven development while allowing others to plumb the depths of the 
class nature of society. (R-S takes the latter for granted.) Often, 
Sraffians such as Steedman simply assume away Marx's post-Ricardian 
innovations, like the distinction between labor and labor-power, to assume 
that "labor values" are technically-fixed coefficients.

The problem, of course, is that there's much more to Marxian political 
economy than this list. (I think that others can think of additions to the 
list.) Some of these elements overlap with Keynesian economics, R-S 
economics, institutionalism, and even neoclassical economics, but what 
characterizes Marxian economics is that these elements are unified as part 
of a mutually-interacting totality. (As Lukacs pointed out, the concept of 
the totality is central to Marxian method.) It's true that Marx never 
finished the job of showing how this totality fits together in a coherent 
way, but that's one of the main jobs of Marxian political economy. (Might 
not it be boring if Marx had finished the job?)

Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine