Re: commies in New Hampshire
K Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 1/2/00 2:05 am, Louis Proyect at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Trotsky himself seems like not an entirely bad sort, but Trots are another story entirely, except maybe for the Mpls general strike. I can't imagine their net contribution to human betterment to have been positive, but I'm willing to hear arguments to the contrary. Doug Without the "Trots", there never would have been an antiwar movement. After LBJ began escalating the war, the only group on the left that pressed for independent mass actions in the street as opposed to electing "peace" candidates was the SWP. You will find this detailed in Tom Wells' excellent "The War at Home". Try to find some room in your busy reading schedule for some history, Doug. It will improve your mind. Without questioning the participation of Trotskyist activists, it might be something of an exaggeration to say that without them there would not have been an antiwar movement. They were as caught up in the flux of the times as anyone else, and their activism was matched by those of other backgrounds in organisations like SDS and SNCC. Symbiotically linked to this was the campaign for civil rights, which gave subsequent antiwar street protest an impetus it would probably not have had otherwise. The books by Doug Dowd, Staughton Lynd and James Miller covering this period are most instructive. Michael
Re: Re: Re: Re: commies in New Hampshire
Trotsky himself seems like not an entirely bad sort, but Trots are another story entirely, except maybe for the Mpls general strike. I can't imagine their net contribution to human betterment to have been positive, but I'm willing to hear arguments to the contrary. Doug I've a hunch that some anarchists and left social revolutionaries at Konstradt would disagree with your initial comment (although what 'not an entirely bad sort' means is, well...) and I know some folks who would point out their importance to anti-Vietnam War movement in responding to your second comment. Other sentence of your post is 'kinder, gentler' disparagement and likely disingenuous. Such discussion on pen seems remote (listers finding it tangential) and it is kind of topic that you generally discourage on lbo. Michael Hoover
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: commies in New Hampshire
Michael Hoover wrote: Trotsky himself seems like not an entirely bad sort, but Trots are another story entirely, except maybe for the Mpls general strike. I can't imagine their net contribution to human betterment to have been positive, but I'm willing to hear arguments to the contrary. Doug I've a hunch that some anarchists and left social revolutionaries at Konstradt would disagree with your initial comment (although what 'not an entirely bad sort' means is, well...) and I know some folks who would point out their importance to anti-Vietnam War movement in responding to your second comment. Other sentence of your post is 'kinder, gentler' disparagement and likely disingenuous. Such discussion on pen seems remote (listers finding it tangential) and it is kind of topic that you generally discourage on lbo. Not disingenous at all. The older I get, the less certain I feel about nearly everything, and the more I want to hear contrary opinions. So I was grateful to hear about the role of the SWP in the antiwar movement. I'd never discourage a conversation about the political contributions of Trotskyism, as long as it didn't degenerate into the 4,732nd rerun of the Stalin-Trotsky debate. As for tangency, I'd have thought that unlike their mainstream colleagues, "progressive" economists wouldn't be uninterested in politics, but maybe I'm wrong. Doug
commies in New Hampshire
from SLATE magazine: Inevitably, reporters run out real questions and start asking [US Senator GOP presidential candidate John] McCain why he likes talking to them so much. "It's fun. It's intellectually stimulating, " he says. "Some of the last of the Trotskyites have been on this bus. It's hard to find them these days." Doug, have you been riding on McCain's bus? Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://liberalarts.lmu.edu/~jdevine
Re: commies in New Hampshire
Jim Devine wrote: from SLATE magazine: Inevitably, reporters run out real questions and start asking [US Senator GOP presidential candidate John] McCain why he likes talking to them so much. "It's fun. It's intellectually stimulating, " he says. "Some of the last of the Trotskyites have been on this bus. It's hard to find them these days." Doug, have you been riding on McCain's bus? I am not now, nor I have I ever been, a Trotskyite. Or a Trotskyist, either. Just ask a real (ex-)Trot. Doug
Re: Re: commies in New Hampshire
At 05:54 PM 1/31/00 -0500, you wrote: Jim Devine wrote: from SLATE magazine: Inevitably, reporters run out real questions and start asking [US Senator GOP presidential candidate John] McCain why he likes talking to them so much. "It's fun. It's intellectually stimulating, " he says. "Some of the last of the Trotskyites have been on this bus. It's hard to find them these days." Doug, have you been riding on McCain's bus? Doug answers: I am not now, nor I have I ever been, a Trotskyite. Or a Trotskyist, either. Just ask a real (ex-)Trot. Doug, you make it sound like a bad thing! Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://liberalarts.lmu.edu/~jdevine
Re: Re: Re: commies in New Hampshire
Jim Devine wrote: Doug answers: I am not now, nor I have I ever been, a Trotskyite. Or a Trotskyist, either. Just ask a real (ex-)Trot. Doug, you make it sound like a bad thing! Trotsky himself seems like not an entirely bad sort, but Trots are another story entirely, except maybe for the Mpls general strike. I can't imagine their net contribution to human betterment to have been positive, but I'm willing to hear arguments to the contrary. Doug
commies in New Hampshire
Trotsky himself seems like not an entirely bad sort, but Trots are another story entirely, except maybe for the Mpls general strike. I can't imagine their net contribution to human betterment to have been positive, but I'm willing to hear arguments to the contrary. Doug Without the "Trots", there never would have been an antiwar movement. After LBJ began escalating the war, the only group on the left that pressed for independent mass actions in the street as opposed to electing "peace" candidates was the SWP. You will find this detailed in Tom Wells' excellent "The War at Home". Try to find some room in your busy reading schedule for some history, Doug. It will improve your mind. Louis Proyect Marxism mailing list: http://www.marxmail.org/
Re: commies in New Hampshire
Louis Proyect wrote: Try to find some room in your busy reading schedule for some history, Doug. It will improve your mind. Thanks for the advice. My mind needs all the help it can get. Doug
Re: commies in New Hampshire
Louis, please. I thought that we were going to put an end to the provocations. Louis Proyect wrote: Try to find some room in your busy reading schedule for some history, Doug. It will improve your mind. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: commies in New Hampshire
That's the Doug I used to love. At 09:19 PM 1/31/00 -0500, you wrote: Louis Proyect wrote: Try to find some room in your busy reading schedule for some history, Doug. It will improve your mind. Thanks for the advice. My mind needs all the help it can get. Doug Louis Proyect Marxism mailing list: http://www.marxmail.org/
Re: Re: commies in New Hampshire
Thank you, Doug. This sort of good humored response is the best way to extinguish flames. Doug Henwood wrote: Louis Proyect wrote: Try to find some room in your busy reading schedule for some history, Doug. It will improve your mind. Thanks for the advice. My mind needs all the help it can get. Doug -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
