Re: Re: market socialism. finis.
At 03:35 AM 07/11/2002 +, Justin wrote: I have not participated in this discussion. But I violently object to Michael shutting down a discussion of a topic that a great many people on the list are interested in, but that he, for some reason, has an allergy too. There are a zillion topics that we beat to death. This one gets Michael's goat. I don't know why. I think the usual rule should apply: if you aren't interested, Michael, don't participate. If there are fair number of people on the list who want to talk about something,a re are doing so in a reasonbaly civil manner, let them do it. You don't see it getting anywhere new? That's because you have made up your mind. You just want various shades of denunciations of the evils of markets. That's find, denounce away if you like. But lets others defend. Well, yeah, if everyone is interested in continuing this discussion, fine. I have not gotten much from it myself. The problem for me is that the discussion has remained extremely abstract and has not done much other than reinforce the prejudices people had when they started the discussion. People have simply taken the nebulous concept of market -- like a Platonic form; they have not distinguished what the differences might be between a market under capitalism vs what how it might function under democractic socialism; they have not talked about whether the market should be the locus of exchange for all labor and the products of labor, or whether it needs to be limited, nor have they explained (to my satisfaction) how they invisible hand of the market is an agent preferrable to human intelligence and the process of consensus building. So, if we're going to have a discussion, it would be really nice if people addressed some of these issues. Joanna
Re: Re: Re: market socialism. finis.
Well, yeah, if everyone is interested in continuing this discussion, fine. I have not gotten much from it myself. The problem for me is that the discussion has remained extremely abstract and has not done much other than reinforce the prejudices people had when they started the discussion. People have simply taken the nebulous concept of market -- like a Platonic form; they have not distinguished what the differences might be between a market under capitalism vs what how it might function under democractic socialism; they have not talked about whether the market should be the locus of exchange for all labor and the products of labor, or whether it needs to be limited, nor have they explained (to my satisfaction) how they invisible hand of the market is an agent preferrable to human intelligence and the process of consensus building. So, if we're going to have a discussion, it would be really nice if people addressed some of these issues. Joanna grin I just joined the discussion. If it continues we will.
market socialism. finis.
I think that our discussion about the ability of the market to offer a variety and how that variety should be determined has landed is right back to our earlier discussions of market socialism, although we have done so without bringing up the names of any obscure Austrian economists. I don't see this discussion going anywhere new. It's probably time to drop it. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: market socialism. finis.
Subject: [PEN-L:27861] market socialism. finis. Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 15:32:34 -0700 I think that our discussion about the ability of the market to offer a variety and how that variety should be determined has landed is right back to our earlier discussions of market socialism, although we have done so without bringing up the names of any obscure Austrian economists. I don't see this discussion going anywhere new. It's probably time to drop it. -- I have not participated in this discussion. But I violently object to Michael shutting down a discussion of a topic that a great many people on the list are interested in, but that he, for some reason, has an allergy too. There are a zillion topics that we beat to death. This one gets Michael's goat. I don't know why. I think the usual rule should apply: if you aren't interested, Michael, don't participate. If there are fair number of people on the list who want to talk about something,a re are doing so in a reasonbaly civil manner, let them do it. You don't see it getting anywhere new? That's because you have made up your mind. You just want various shades of denunciations of the evils of markets. That's find, denounce away if you like. But lets others defend. This is a topic of central important to the left. Some people obviously find value in the discussion. So I'm asking you to stop trying to cap what a lot of folks here apparantly think they are learning from. jks jks _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
