Re: Yet another C compiler
Maybe someone wants to experiment a bit, if it compiles Parrot. Here's another thought... The ACK achieves maximum portability by using an intermediate byte-code language called EM. (..) EM is a relatively high-level stack-based machine, and one of the tools supplied with ACK is an interpreter capable of executing EM binaries directly, with a high degree of safety checking See also http://tack.sourceforge.net/doc/em.html It's stack-based, but a EM-PASM converter might be an interesting way to compile Modula-2 to Parrot ;-) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://christian.web42.com - http://www.web42.com/crenz/ Real theology is always rather shocking to people who already think they know what they think. I'm still shocked myself. -- Larry Wall
Re: wxParrot -- linking problems
Ciao Mattia, thanks for your reply. I read a bit about ABI and I guess it's something I only want to touch with a long pole, that pole being an extra layer of indirection I initially hoped to be able to avoid. I like the idea of leveraging the wxPerl XS files. Any comments on why you introduced xsubppp (on top of xsubpp) for some XS files? Regards, Christian -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://christian.web42.com - http://www.web42.com/crenz/ So, who am I to disagree with God? :-) -- Larry Wall
wxParrot -- linking problems
Hi all, I've recently decided to try to hook up the wxWidgets GUI library with parrot and Pugs. I haven't dabbled much with parrot yet so I consider this a good way to learn more :-). Right at the start, I ran into a curious problem loading the Wx libraries with loadlib. (I'm on Mac OS X 10.4, by the way). After trying different versions, I finally compiled Wx into one big dynamic library called libwx_macu-2.6.0.2.0.dylib. However, I could only link to it when I renamed/symlinked it to libwx.dylib or libwx_macu.dylib. Otherwise, I get error messages like Couldn't load 'libwx_macu-2.6': unknown reason (and doing a typeof on the PMC var reveals that it is indeed undef). It seems loadlib fails as soon as the library name contains a number. Is this normal/desired behaviour? Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I'm not very experienced with linking on Unix systems. In fact, my questions are gonna get worse right now :-): How do I find the right symbol name for a function? For example, the void wxBell(void) function can be found in the library as __Z6wxBellv (found using otool -vT /usr/lib/libwx.dylib), but I guess on Windows it bould be something like _wxBellA. And of course it gets harder in the case of overloaded methods/constructors/destructors with different parameter signatures. So how would I go about finding the symbol I need (short of compiling a small C++ program and find out which symbols it imports...)? Greetings, Christian -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.web42.com/crenz/ - http://christian.web42.com/ You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body. -- C.S. Lewis
Re: Parrot - 100% Gnu.NET ?
Clemens, classpath I guess the proper term would be class library. The path is only where you look for the libraries :). It doesn't seem to be the Perl way to limit yourself to one option only (There's more than one way to do it). Of course we wouldn't want five different implementations of Unicode, and it makes sense to ship _one_. However, people might want to use different GUIs -- e.g. wxWindows, TK, native Windows GUI, Aqua, ... Basic network classes, on the other hand, might be something that might be shipped with Parrot. Sound is a whole different beast -- implementations vary wildly across systems, and I'm not sure whether it is possible to have a high-performance cross-platform implementation that satisifes 90% of users. On the other hand, I don't think we only have the choice between shipping all libraries like Java and having a complicated install system (for the average GUI-loving end user) like CPAN. There's a couple of middle options: For bytecode based packages: - Parrot bytecode executables might be packages that contain the necessary libraries in bytecode format (e.g. wxWindows). - Installers might include libraries (in bytecode) and install them if needed (install = simple copy) For binary (platform-dependant) packages: Usually, people just ship these statically linked against those libs that can't be typically expected to be installed on the system. So I guess for Parrot apps distributed in binary, there's not much of a problem. For apps shipped as bytecode, it still needs to be discussed what is going to be provided: - Preferably a small package ( 5 - 10 MB) that lets people use Parrot apps quickly. - A huge package complete with Perl/Python/PHP/Befunge/hq9+/... support so that everybody will have 95% of everything they are ever gonna need - Or both? Liebe Grüße, Christian (since you started the German greetings thingie ;-)) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.web42.com/crenz/ - http://www.web42.com/ Surely what a man does when he is taken off his guard is the best evidence for what sort of man he is. -- C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
Re: We *need* this op! :-)
Shouldn't it be the what_do_you_get_if_you_multiply_six_by_nine_then_subtract_twelve op? No, it shouldn't. Meditate about it again and you will be enlightened. Hint: Base 13. Greetings, Christian -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.web42.com/crenz/ - http://www.web42.com/ The worst attitude of all would be the professional attitude which regards children in the lump as a sort of raw material which we have to handle. -- C.S. Lewis, On Three Ways of Writing for Children
Re: [RFC] Dynamic PMC Classes
Thanks for the clarification. Does that mean that a mechanism for dynamic PMCs would automatically allow them to be written in Parrot also (and not only load binary libs)? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.web42.com/crenz/ - http://www.web42.com/
Re: [RFC] Dynamic PMC Classes
I don't pretend that I fully understand what dynamic classes are about, but Dan's suggestions made it a lot clearer to me. This seems like one possible way to attach something like wxWindows to parrot. I'm wondering about one thing, however: We build classes as shared libraries, unless otherwise noted. PMC Are there any plans to allow PMCs to be implemented in Parrot? Or am I asking something stoopid :). Greetings, Christian -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.web42.com/crenz/ - http://www.web42.com/
Re: approaching python
to link with python, we should probably write our own parser.[1] Just use Perl 6 to write it :). Ooops... looks like a chicken-and-egg problem... Greetings, Christian
Re: wxWindows Support / Interfacing libraries with Parrot
The easiest way isn't avaialble yet. That is custom dynamically loaded PMCs (classes) representing some functionality. Hmm... then I think I misunderstood something. I thought PMCs are only used for language-specific data types (e.g. PerlScalar, PythonString) that are part of the Parrot core and not so much for user-defined types that I can hook up with Parrot myself. I also thought that PMCs only support basic operations rather than being full-fledged classes. Sorry if I sound a bit ignorant of Parrot internals. That's because I am :) although I try my best to follow Parrot development. When Parrot's OO handling is ready, will it use PMC for external classes (ie. classes in binary form rather than Parrot bytecode) or something else? Why the smilies ;-) Because my guess was that if such a beast is possible, it's gonna be a lot of work. After all, Parrot seems to be much more intelligent than the average CPU out there :). Greetings, Christian
wxWindows Support / Interfacing libraries with Parrot
Actually, I was the one mentioning it in a completely offhand remark in some discussion about the future of wxWindows ;-). I'm not looking for official endorsement of wxWindows as the GUI toolkit for Parrot -- TIMTOWTDI -- but it sure would be sweet to have, and definitely would not hurt Parrot-based application development :). When starting to think about this, I asked myself what library interfacing with Parrot would look like. My first thought was to have a Perl 6 interface for wxWindows, but then it ocurred to me that it would be more clever to have all the interface classes in Parrot; this way, _any_ language using Parrot could use the wxWindows classes. Is this correct? Are there already tools to do the interfacing (á la Swig) or does it need to be done by hand? Greetings, Christian -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.web42.com/crenz/ - http://www.web42.com/ One of the problems with Java is that they swept a bit too much of the innate complexity of life under the carpet of the libraries. And so now they've had to replace the carpets several times. -- Larry Wall
