Re: Ping Larry Wall: excessive compile times
On 8/29/22 19:58, ToddAndMargo via perl6-users wrote: On 8/29/22 19:26, Brad Gilbert wrote: The Raku compiler is written in Raku (to an extent) so no it can't be toned down. I've been out of the loop for a while, but there has been work to make the compiler use a better design which should be more optimizable. Awesome. I would love to hear from Larry if there is some technical reason behind the slowness and it is just not lack of time and/or resources on the developers part.
Re: Ping Larry Wall: excessive compile times
On 8/29/22 19:26, Brad Gilbert wrote: The Raku compiler is written in Raku (to an extent) so no it can't be toned down. I've been out of the loop for a while, but there has been work to make the compiler use a better design which should be more optimizable. Awesome.
Re: Ping Larry Wall: excessive compile times
The Raku compiler is written in Raku (to an extent) so no it can't be toned down. I've been out of the loop for a while, but there has been work to make the compiler use a better design which should be more optimizable. On Mon, Aug 29, 2022, 2:01 PM ToddAndMargo via perl6-users < perl6-users@perl.org> wrote: > On 8/29/22 11:50, Brad Gilbert wrote: > > Actually Raku is faster to compile than Perl5. If you consider all of > > the features it comes with. > > > > For example, in Raku everything is an object with meta features. If you > > add Moose or similar to Perl5 then the compile times will often take > > longer than the equivalent Raku times. > > > > That's not the only such feature that you have to add to Perl5 to get > > feature parity. > > > > Then you have to also realize that the Perl5 compiler has had since 1994 > > to get faster vs. 2015 for Raku. > > I do adore Perl 6 (Raku). I almost completely > dropped Perl 5 when I got a load of P6's > subroutines. I program in Top Down and P5's > subs are a nightmare. I have one P5 program > I support that I have not ported yet. > > As a beginner, my programs are rather simple. > If P6 being feature rich is part of the > problem, is there a way to tell P6's compiler > to back off a bit? > > > > >
Re: BEGIN {} question
On 8/28/22 15:58, ToddAndMargo via perl6-users wrote:
Hi All,
I am thinking of using
BEGIN {}
to fire up a splash screen (libnotify).
Question: is what happens between the brackets
isolated from the rest of the code? If I set
variable values or declare variables, are they
wiped out, etc.?
Many thanks,
-T
My keeper on BEGIN. That you for all the help
and tips!
Perl6: BEGIN {}
BEGIN is a special subroutine that runs at compile time.
It will see any code above it, such as variables and
imported modules, but not below it.
The idea is to run something at the start of compile before
the rest of compile completes. A splash screen for example.
Perl 6's compile can take a very long time and users may not
realize it started and restart it several times.
Note that a space is required between `BEGIN and the `{}`
BEGIN {
# Splash Screen
( my $ProgramName = $?FILE ) ~~ s|.*"/"||;
my Str $NotifyStr = "\nStarting $ProgramName\n";
my Str $Icon = "/home/linuxutil/Images/Info.png";
my Str $Title = "$ProgramName Splash Screen";
my Str $Timeout = "8"; # zenity = seconds
# Note: zenity seems to not detach when run without a shell
shell "zenity --info --title \"$Title\" --text \"$NotifyStr\"
--width=220 --timeout=$Timeout &";
}
Re: BEGIN {} question
On 8/29/22 13:03, ToddAndMargo via perl6-users wrote:
On 8/28/22 15:58, ToddAndMargo via perl6-users wrote:
Hi All,
I am thinking of using
BEGIN {}
to fire up a splash screen (libnotify).
Question: is what happens between the brackets
isolated from the rest of the code? If I set
variable values or declare variables, are they
wiped out, etc.?
Many thanks,
-T
Follow up:
Thank you all for the help!
My splash screen pops up whilst the
rest of the program compiles.
Here is my BEGIN code. If you are
wondering why all the variables when
I could just write it in the run line,
it is becasue the names of the variables
and the comments next to them tell me what
the parameters of notify-send are and
how to use them. Much easier to maintain.
#!/usr/bin/env perl6
use RunNoShellLib :RunNoShell, :RunNoShellCode, :RunNoShellErr;
BEGIN {
# Splash Screen
( my $ProgramName = $?FILE ) ~~ s|.*"/"||;
my Str $NotifyStr = "\nStarting $ProgramName\n";
my Str $Icon = "/home/linuxutil/Images/Info.png";
my Str $Title = "$ProgramName Splash Screen";
my Str $Timeout = "8000"; # milliseconds
RunNoShell( "notify-send -u normal -t \"$Timeout\" -i \"$Icon\"
\"$Title\" \"$NotifyStr\"" );
}
:-)
Love Raku!
-T
I changed my BEGIN a bit. Send-notify open on the right under the last
notification.
Zenity allow me to open up right in the middle to the
screen.
And I had to switch from run to shell to get zenity
to detach. Otherwise the compiler stops until
zenity returns
BEGIN {
# Splash Screen
( my $ProgramName = $?FILE ) ~~ s|.*"/"||;
my Str $NotifyStr = "\nStarting $ProgramName\n";
my Str $Icon = "/home/linuxutil/Images/Info.png";
my Str $Title = "$ProgramName Splash Screen";
# my Str $Timeout = "8000"; # notify-send = milliseconds
my Str $Timeout = "8"; # zenity = seconds
# Note: zenity seems to not detach when run without a shell
# RunNoShell( "zenity --info --title \"$Title\" --text
\"$NotifyStr\" --width=220 --timeout=$Timeout" );
shell "zenity --info --title \"$Title\" --text \"$NotifyStr\"
--width=220 --timeout=$Timeout &";
}
--
~~
Computers are like air conditioners.
They malfunction when you open windows
~~
Re: detach?
On 8/29/22 17:59, ToddAndMargo via perl6-users wrote: Hi All, How do I trigger and detach and external program from inside Raku? I want the program to go off on its own and I do not want any results back from it. Many thanks, -T Figured it out with `shell` but not `run` (I want both for my notes.) shell "zenity --info --title \"$Title\" --text \"$NotifyStr\" --width=220 --timeout=$Timeout &";
detach?
Hi All, How do I trigger and detach and external program from inside Raku? I want the program to go off on its own and I do not want any results back from it. Many thanks, -T
Reno 911 || AIDS not HIV. TV/TB. Please help I need a healer.
Well, my habit of asking "url?" had not changed a bit; descriptions of objects cannot be resolved into real ideas without a pointer, and URL is a very good and precise way to motivate people putting their ideas into resolvable entities. I may not have internet access when I need a lifesaver. I need a 1-800 number that is super easy to remember. I signed a contract for a drug company to test drugs on me in Long Beach, CA. I left California. Please someone talk to me. FCC License? Capacity Hearing? Sonic the Hedgehog: Robotnik turning the animals into robots. (Summer of 2020) They gave me twenty dollars for participation. I used the money to buy cigars and soda pop. I tried to put myself under hypnosis soon after. I wanted to receive coded messages and started leaving a bread crumb here and there. Years ago I had heard beeps and clicks in jail coming from intercom and television. Self Talk, Conversations with self about identity, needs and likes, planning. The voices asked me questions others would not ask. I have no proof of friend nor the belief that the same scientists are listening. I do not know how old I am but no one doubts that I am an adult. Scenarios, profiles and commands. I agreed for 10 years of voices. I think the voices told me to write ten years on the contract. There was a place for me to write an expiration date. I do not know the name of the drug company nor am I absolutely sure if I am having conversations with apes. I have hearing loss from Radio Shack Kits. I am psyche patient that has had many eye injuries and scolding hot water thrown into my ear. I do not remember sides. Scripts. Language. I was told tracking number exists for HIPA (Health Information Privacy Agreement) and Motorolla. Motorolla sent me silicon and Ge transistors after I spoke with someone when I was in High School. Distributor not corporate. FedEx. They could not deliver for their customers including Apple. Nintendo Gun. Duck Hunt. Doctor with Ketchup. Breaking and Entering. A few days later trespassing. Prediction: Vehicular Manslaughter. Evidence: my mother was with me when we bought a card reader when I was emancipated. Do ATM/Credit Point of Sale Terminals have cassette heads. Some plastic molding and any chance of learning responsibility were gone. HSC Specialty. Manager. Out of business in Carmichael, CA. I know for certain if I had an MRI they would not tell me if I had hearing AIDS or implants. I would draw circuit diagrams and have discussions with anyone willing to listen. I did build a one chip FM receiver I bought on Amazon at Christmas a few years ago. I am using drugs for social and reproduction. Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/) secure email.
Re: BEGIN {} question
On 8/28/22 15:58, ToddAndMargo via perl6-users wrote:
Hi All,
I am thinking of using
BEGIN {}
to fire up a splash screen (libnotify).
Question: is what happens between the brackets
isolated from the rest of the code? If I set
variable values or declare variables, are they
wiped out, etc.?
Many thanks,
-T
Follow up:
Thank you all for the help!
My splash screen pops up whilst the
rest of the program compiles.
Here is my BEGIN code. If you are
wondering why all the variables when
I could just write it in the run line,
it is becasue the names of the variables
and the comments next to them tell me what
the parameters of notify-send are and
how to use them. Much easier to maintain.
#!/usr/bin/env perl6
use RunNoShellLib :RunNoShell, :RunNoShellCode, :RunNoShellErr;
BEGIN {
# Splash Screen
( my $ProgramName = $?FILE ) ~~ s|.*"/"||;
my Str $NotifyStr = "\nStarting $ProgramName\n";
my Str $Icon = "/home/linuxutil/Images/Info.png";
my Str $Title = "$ProgramName Splash Screen";
my Str $Timeout = "8000"; # milliseconds
RunNoShell( "notify-send -u normal -t \"$Timeout\" -i \"$Icon\"
\"$Title\" \"$NotifyStr\"" );
}
:-)
Love Raku!
-T
Re: exe?
On 8/28/22 09:21, ToddAndMargo via perl6-users wrote: Hi All, Is there a way to convert a Windows Raku program to to an executable (.exe) file? Many thanks, -T My target is to create a diaglog box with GLADE that allow for certain Windows registry settings to be set by the users with a GUI. Having an exe would get me around 1) installing and maintaining Raku, 2) installing and maintaining Git (needed for zef to work), and the delay problems compiling the program (the .precomp workaround should work as there would not be a lot of maintencnce)
Re: Ping Larry Wall: excessive compile times
On 8/29/22 11:50, Brad Gilbert wrote: Actually Raku is faster to compile than Perl5. If you consider all of the features it comes with. For example, in Raku everything is an object with meta features. If you add Moose or similar to Perl5 then the compile times will often take longer than the equivalent Raku times. That's not the only such feature that you have to add to Perl5 to get feature parity. Then you have to also realize that the Perl5 compiler has had since 1994 to get faster vs. 2015 for Raku. I do adore Perl 6 (Raku). I almost completely dropped Perl 5 when I got a load of P6's subroutines. I program in Top Down and P5's subs are a nightmare. I have one P5 program I support that I have not ported yet. As a beginner, my programs are rather simple. If P6 being feature rich is part of the problem, is there a way to tell P6's compiler to back off a bit?
Re: BEGIN {} question
On 8/29/22 10:45, Tom Browder wrote: On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 12:31 PM ToddAndMargo via perl6-users wrote: On 8/29/22 08:41, Tom Browder wrote: ... And I think you may be surprised how much speedup you may get by using the precompiled-module "trick" for most of your 11,000-line program. ... Hi Tom, The .precomp workaround was never in question! But there are tines when it is impractical. ... So lots and lots of compiling that .precomp does not help me with. ... More information that you wanted. Sorry. No reason to apologize, Todd. I had forgotten how much you were actually doing with your Raku code--a textbook example for sure! But I apologize for my impatient replies. :-) Blessings, -Tom Hi Tom, You are a force of nature. I always love your replies. I was in no way offended. :-) I got long winded because a lot of folks keep telling me about the .precomp workaround. I did not want them to think I was summarily disregarding their advice (including you). I wanted to expound on why it is not always practicle. -T
Re: Ping Larry Wall: excessive compile times
Actually Raku is faster to compile than Perl5. If you consider all of the features it comes with. For example, in Raku everything is an object with meta features. If you add Moose or similar to Perl5 then the compile times will often take longer than the equivalent Raku times. That's not the only such feature that you have to add to Perl5 to get feature parity. Then you have to also realize that the Perl5 compiler has had since 1994 to get faster vs. 2015 for Raku. On Mon, Aug 29, 2022, 10:48 AM ToddAndMargo via perl6-users < perl6-users@perl.org> wrote: > Dear Larry Wall, > > Sorry for writing you directly, but I know you > sometimes answer questions on this mailing list. > And those answers are uniquely easy for a beginner > to understand. > > The compile times of Perl5 and Perl6 are dramatically > different. Perl 5 is literally 100 times or more > faster than Perl6. It is professionally embarrassing > to turn over a program to customer that takes up to > 20 seconds to start. > > I have reported the issue over on: > >https://github.com/perl-foundation-outreach/gsoc-2021-ideas/issues/4 > > From the bug report, I compared a program I ported from > Perl 5 to Perl 6. > >$ raku -c --stagestats GetUpdates.pl6 >Stage start : 0.000 >Stage parse : 17.851 >Stage syntaxcheck: Syntax OK > >$ time perl -c GetUpdates.pl >GetUpdates.pl syntax OK >real 0m0.305s >user 0m0.243s >sys 0m0.029s > > > 17.851 versus 0.75 seconds. Or 238 times slower. > > Since you wrote both Perl 5 and Perl 6, is there some > reason beyond my limited understanding of how these > things work as to why your Perl 5 is so much faster to > compile that your Perl 6? > > And is wishing for the situation to be corrected > not a reasonable request? > > Also, am I stuck with the .precomp work around, which > is not helpful when you have to run a lot of > iterations to debug things such are regex's? > 17 seconds to see if I goofed a regex is killing me! > > Many thanks, > -T > >
Re: BEGIN {} question
On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 12:31 PM ToddAndMargo via perl6-users wrote: > On 8/29/22 08:41, Tom Browder wrote: ... > > And I think you may be surprised how much speedup you may get by using > > the precompiled-module "trick" for most of your 11,000-line program. ... > Hi Tom, > The .precomp workaround was never in question! > But there are tines when it is impractical. ... > So lots and lots of compiling that .precomp does not > help me with. ... > More information that you wanted. Sorry. No reason to apologize, Todd. I had forgotten how much you were actually doing with your Raku code--a textbook example for sure! But I apologize for my impatient replies. :-) Blessings, -Tom
Re: BEGIN {} question
On 8/29/22 08:41, Tom Browder wrote: On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 10:29 AM ToddAndMargo via perl6-users mailto:perl6-users@perl.org>> wrote: ... > Does the compiler make a full pass through > the code before firing off the BEGIN routine NO. And I think you may be surprised how much speedup you may get by using the precompiled-module "trick" for most of your 11,000-line program. -Tom Hi Tom, The .precomp workaround was never in question! But there are tines when it is impractical. Most of the programs I have written for customers run in the background (rakuw) or at night when no one cares how long they take to start. Other programs are to remove mistakes from barcode data when routed to a bar code program. The customer inputs data into their Point of Sale software that freaks out the bar code printing program, so I correct it on the fly. It is a lot easier than going through their entire database and having the remote `'` for feet and `"` for inches in a CSV file sent to the barcode program (comma-separated value). Not to mention it is impossible to get the users to stop making those mistakes I also have written my own Dynamic DNS (Domain Name Server) work around for folks that I have installed RDP (remote Desktop Protocol) on and that are using floating WAN (Wide Area Network) addresses. But it is pretty simple and starts quick enough. Now for where .precomp is not practical. It is those projects were the saying "the software is never finished" applies. Where I am loath to start/recommend projects that the customer expects a reasonable response time to start. So far, I have been lucky. For those programs that do not require a lot of maintenance, the .precomp work around is reasonable. Primarily where the response time drives me INSANE is my software updates program. This program goes out and checks for new updates for programs I support. If a new one exists, it downloads. I carry these programs with me to customer sites on a read only flash drive so as to not transfer viruses between customers. So far it is about 70 programs. Because Web Developers are always working on their sites, I am constantly having to figure out what is wrong. "The software is never finished". So .precomp does not help. What I have done though is to configure the program such that if I put the sub name of the target program on the run line, my program will only run that section rather that waiting 5 minutes to go through them all. And if my program finds something on the run line it, it also triggers my extensive debugging. And it does take a lot of iterations to debug my regex's. And the wait time (17 seconds) drives me NUTS. Sometimes, the "source" code on Firefox's development tools dos not show hidden character in their pages and that creates a nightmare too. I spurt the web page to a file and then see what the heck is wrong. I am getting pretty good at it though. "Git" and "Brave" (Browser) are interesting to download from. So lots and lots of compiling that .precomp does not help me with. More information that your wanted. Sorry. -T
Re: Ping Larry Wall: excessive compile times
> Since you wrote both Perl 5 and Perl 6, is there some > reason beyond my limited understanding of how these > things work as to why your Perl 5 is so much faster to > compile that your Perl 6? You clearly understand the situation! What can I say? Ah, I know. *PLONK* Liz
Ping Larry Wall: excessive compile times
Dear Larry Wall, Sorry for writing you directly, but I know you sometimes answer questions on this mailing list. And those answers are uniquely easy for a beginner to understand. The compile times of Perl5 and Perl6 are dramatically different. Perl 5 is literally 100 times or more faster than Perl6. It is professionally embarrassing to turn over a program to customer that takes up to 20 seconds to start. I have reported the issue over on: https://github.com/perl-foundation-outreach/gsoc-2021-ideas/issues/4 From the bug report, I compared a program I ported from Perl 5 to Perl 6. $ raku -c --stagestats GetUpdates.pl6 Stage start : 0.000 Stage parse : 17.851 Stage syntaxcheck: Syntax OK $ time perl -c GetUpdates.pl GetUpdates.pl syntax OK real 0m0.305s user 0m0.243s sys 0m0.029s 17.851 versus 0.75 seconds. Or 238 times slower. Since you wrote both Perl 5 and Perl 6, is there some reason beyond my limited understanding of how these things work as to why your Perl 5 is so much faster to compile that your Perl 6? And is wishing for the situation to be corrected not a reasonable request? Also, am I stuck with the .precomp work around, which is not helpful when you have to run a lot of iterations to debug things such are regex's? 17 seconds to see if I goofed a regex is killing me! Many thanks, -T
Re: BEGIN {} question
On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 10:29 AM ToddAndMargo via perl6-users < perl6-users@perl.org> wrote: ... > Does the compiler make a full pass through > the code before firing off the BEGIN routine NO. And I think you may be surprised how much speedup you may get by using the precompiled-module "trick" for most of your 11,000-line program. -Tom
Re: BEGIN {} question
On 8/29/22 00:44, Elizabeth Mattijsen wrote: Question, would BEGIN go at the top or the bottom of my code? Seems the compiler would hit it first at the top, but I do not know if it makes a full pass of everything before firing off the BEGIN. BEGIN runs at *compile* time. This means that anything before the BEGIN statement in the code, is compiled and known and can be referenced in the BEGIN block. Anything *after* the BEGIN statement is still unknown to the compiler and can therefore *not* be referenced. Liz Hi Liz, Excellent explanation. Thank you! Does the compiler make a full pass through the code before firing off the BEGIN routine or does it fire it off as soon as it finds it? -T
Re: BEGIN {} question
> Question, would BEGIN go at the top or the bottom > of my code? Seems the compiler would hit it first > at the top, but I do not know if it makes a full > pass of everything before firing off the BEGIN. BEGIN runs at *compile* time. This means that anything before the BEGIN statement in the code, is compiled and known and can be referenced in the BEGIN block. Anything *after* the BEGIN statement is still unknown to the compiler and can therefore *not* be referenced. Liz
