Re: [ADMIN] deciding between amd and intel processor
Hi! Lots of thanks for your attention and comments! This time we went with Dell AMD, with matching memory and processor speed of 1600 MHz, 6 x 600 gb 10k harddisks we intend to use in three mirrors striped together. We didnt yet dare to include SSD in pure form or with H700 CacheCade. (Although i read Gregg Smith's thougths about some ssd models which should be in itself suitable for db.) Imre On 03/21/12 03:37, Scott Marlowe wrote: On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Imre Oolbergi...@auul.pri.ee wrote: Hi! My comerade has to decide for his so to say generic and a bit unpredicted PostgreSQL needs for web applications between Intel and AMD based server. For now it has been coming down to these processor choices 1. Dell PowerEdge R810 which has 2 x Intel® Xeon® E7-4830 2.13GHz, 24M cache 6.4 GT/s QPI, Turbo, HT, 8C, 1066MHz Max Mem processors Is this CPU really limited to 1066MHz memory? That's positively ancient by today's standards. as i see this makes total of 2 x 16 cores (or 2 x 16 threads) amd in total of 2 x 24 MB L2 cache HT cores aren't 100% as fast as a real core. They can get close depending on the application. Generally the more CPU intensive the better they do. The more you treat your CPUs like a data pump the less it matters. It terms of performance, it's like something between 16 and 32 cores. I'd guestimate it at about 24 or so. 2. Dell PowerEdge R815 4 x AMD Opteron 6272, 2.1GHz, 16C, Turbo CORE, 16M L2/16M L3, 1600Mhz Max Mem processors as i see this makes total of 4 x 16 cores and in total of 4 x 16 MB L2 cache Yep. FAR more important is how many different memory banks you're now capable of throwing at the problem. Each socket allows for a new memory controller on the machine, since the newer Intels and AMDs have integrated memory controllers. This reduces contention between CPUs for memory access, and increases overall throughput. Given the much slower main memory speed listed for the Intels I'd expect the AMD machine to stomp the Intel machine into the mud in terms of throughput. If the Intels are REALLY 1600, then the AMDs would still get the nod, but it would be closer. So far based on what you've posted, I'd pick the AMD, mainly because it has more memory bandwidth. Other computer components are quite similar - 128 GB 1333 dual ranked lv rdimm MHz memory for AMD Is the cost of 1600MHz memory that much more? If it's a few hundred or something, get the 1600MHz memory. If it's a few thousand, then yeah, it might be worth sticking to 1333MHz memory and buying more hard drives etc. - 128 GB 1066 dual ranked lv rdimm MHz memory for Intel - PERC H700 Integrated RAID Controller, 1GB NV Cache - 4 x 600GB 10K RPM SAS 6Gbps 2.5in Hotplug Hard Drive I'm not that familiar with the PERC H700. While older model PERCs were at best of questionable performance, the newer ones apparently get decent reviews. that's a pretty small drive set for a machine this massive. Based on dell.com AMD variant comes about $14 k and Intel $17 k. Wow, that's a lot. A similar machine with 5 drive bays, 5 300G SAS drives and an Areca 1880 SAS controller, and 4x16 AMD 6272 is right at $10k from aberdeeninc.com, and that's with a 5 year warranty. For that extra $4k you could probably upgrade to something with 16 or more drives. IO is king of db performance. All the CPU in the world won't help if you're waiting on your drive subsystem. And i got following questions in mind 1. do you suggest this Intel or this AMD configuration taking also into account price? while it seems obvious to go with AMD so to say price-wise are there some hidden rocks behind the surface going with AMD (like L2 cache usage, overall system stability)? I'd recommend neither, as I'd rather chew off my own arm than ever have to deal with Dell again. Way too many deals gone sour, and horribly unknowledgable sales staff for me to deal with anymore. If I have a purchasing officer somewhere in a big company to deal with them they're OK. The L2 cache is no biggie. both the AMD and Intel CPUs listed are pretty good performers. The equivalent intel chips cost WAY more than the AMD ones tho, and honestly unless you're going for the top of the line fastest 10 core CPUs the Intels aren't gonna be much faster, if any. 2. if it makes much sence to ask like this what could be considered on normal postgresql workload (with web applications) reasonable balance between cpu cores and memory system has? Without seeing some analysis of the current system, it's hard to say what you need to upgrade really. What do tools like iostat, vmstat, sar, iotop, iftop and so on say about the current system under load? 3. it is intended to use debian on this system, now squeeze and some day wheezy, both hardwares most probably match quite well with debian and postgresql? You want a pretty late model kernel for a 64 core machine. Anything released in the last two years will likely be ok, so yeah, Debian
Re: [ADMIN] deciding between amd and intel processor
On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Imre Oolberg i...@auul.pri.ee wrote: Hi! My comerade has to decide for his so to say generic and a bit unpredicted PostgreSQL needs for web applications between Intel and AMD based server. For now it has been coming down to these processor choices 1. Dell PowerEdge R810 which has 2 x Intel® Xeon® E7-4830 2.13GHz, 24M cache 6.4 GT/s QPI, Turbo, HT, 8C, 1066MHz Max Mem processors Is this CPU really limited to 1066MHz memory? That's positively ancient by today's standards. as i see this makes total of 2 x 16 cores (or 2 x 16 threads) amd in total of 2 x 24 MB L2 cache HT cores aren't 100% as fast as a real core. They can get close depending on the application. Generally the more CPU intensive the better they do. The more you treat your CPUs like a data pump the less it matters. It terms of performance, it's like something between 16 and 32 cores. I'd guestimate it at about 24 or so. 2. Dell PowerEdge R815 4 x AMD Opteron 6272, 2.1GHz, 16C, Turbo CORE, 16M L2/16M L3, 1600Mhz Max Mem processors as i see this makes total of 4 x 16 cores and in total of 4 x 16 MB L2 cache Yep. FAR more important is how many different memory banks you're now capable of throwing at the problem. Each socket allows for a new memory controller on the machine, since the newer Intels and AMDs have integrated memory controllers. This reduces contention between CPUs for memory access, and increases overall throughput. Given the much slower main memory speed listed for the Intels I'd expect the AMD machine to stomp the Intel machine into the mud in terms of throughput. If the Intels are REALLY 1600, then the AMDs would still get the nod, but it would be closer. So far based on what you've posted, I'd pick the AMD, mainly because it has more memory bandwidth. Other computer components are quite similar - 128 GB 1333 dual ranked lv rdimm MHz memory for AMD Is the cost of 1600MHz memory that much more? If it's a few hundred or something, get the 1600MHz memory. If it's a few thousand, then yeah, it might be worth sticking to 1333MHz memory and buying more hard drives etc. - 128 GB 1066 dual ranked lv rdimm MHz memory for Intel - PERC H700 Integrated RAID Controller, 1GB NV Cache - 4 x 600GB 10K RPM SAS 6Gbps 2.5in Hotplug Hard Drive I'm not that familiar with the PERC H700. While older model PERCs were at best of questionable performance, the newer ones apparently get decent reviews. that's a pretty small drive set for a machine this massive. Based on dell.com AMD variant comes about $14 k and Intel $17 k. Wow, that's a lot. A similar machine with 5 drive bays, 5 300G SAS drives and an Areca 1880 SAS controller, and 4x16 AMD 6272 is right at $10k from aberdeeninc.com, and that's with a 5 year warranty. For that extra $4k you could probably upgrade to something with 16 or more drives. IO is king of db performance. All the CPU in the world won't help if you're waiting on your drive subsystem. And i got following questions in mind 1. do you suggest this Intel or this AMD configuration taking also into account price? while it seems obvious to go with AMD so to say price-wise are there some hidden rocks behind the surface going with AMD (like L2 cache usage, overall system stability)? I'd recommend neither, as I'd rather chew off my own arm than ever have to deal with Dell again. Way too many deals gone sour, and horribly unknowledgable sales staff for me to deal with anymore. If I have a purchasing officer somewhere in a big company to deal with them they're OK. The L2 cache is no biggie. both the AMD and Intel CPUs listed are pretty good performers. The equivalent intel chips cost WAY more than the AMD ones tho, and honestly unless you're going for the top of the line fastest 10 core CPUs the Intels aren't gonna be much faster, if any. 2. if it makes much sence to ask like this what could be considered on normal postgresql workload (with web applications) reasonable balance between cpu cores and memory system has? Without seeing some analysis of the current system, it's hard to say what you need to upgrade really. What do tools like iostat, vmstat, sar, iotop, iftop and so on say about the current system under load? 3. it is intended to use debian on this system, now squeeze and some day wheezy, both hardwares most probably match quite well with debian and postgresql? You want a pretty late model kernel for a 64 core machine. Anything released in the last two years will likely be ok, so yeah, Debian Squeeze or Ubuntu 10.04 should be ok. 4. it is intended not to use virtualization (KVM or Xen) but if needed, then just use different pg clusters as in pg_lsclusters, and controlling resources for each with shared_buffers etc, or should virtualization rather be considered? Only use virtualization if you really have to. Most of the time you're better off with one cluster, or maybe two or three at most if the usage patterns are
Re: [ADMIN] deciding between amd and intel processor
As a followup to my previous post, if you get a solid white box, you could build a machine for $17k that will beat the two previously listed machines pretty badly, and in a small form factor as well. Take one of these: http://www.aberdeeninc.com/abcatg/mb1661.htm and throw 4 16C AMDs and 128G and a SAS RAID card in it. That'll run you about $7k. Then hook up one of these: http://www.aberdeeninc.com/abcatg/xdas-jbod-1u-d.htm with 12 15k SAS drives. That'll cost about $10k. Note that there are plenty of white box manufacturers out there that get good customer reviews. If Dell can give you a pretty big discount they might be able to match the price. Don't expect them to match the service. Generally these smaller makers know their customers very well. For instance over the last 3 years I worked at a small shop, and we had the same tech support and sales folk the WHOLE TIME at Aberdeen. First name basis, knew my business, made solid recs based on my needs. -- Sent via pgsql-admin mailing list (pgsql-admin@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-admin
