Re: [DOCS] "managing kernel resources" and platform-specific notes

2008-12-16 Thread Tom Lane
Alvaro Herrera  writes:
> We've got some platform-specific notes in the "managing kernel
> resources" (17.4.1 on 8.4devel) page.  Since we recently got
> platform-specific sections in the installation instructions (15.8), it
> seems a good idea to move these notes to the new sections.

> Opinions?

Hmm, I'm not convinced.  95% of what was put into 15.8 is really
platform-specific *build* instructions.  Merging configuration
information into that doesn't seem appropriate.

In general I think chapter 15 is about getting a correct set of
binaries, while chapter 17 deals with system configuration issues.
These should be kept separate, because in the common case of using
a prepackaged build, chapter 15 is of no interest but 17 still is.

It's quite likely that some of the stuff extracted from the old platform
FAQs really belongs in 17.

regards, tom lane

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Re: [DOCS] "managing kernel resources" and platform-specific notes

2008-12-16 Thread Peter Eisentraut

Alvaro Herrera wrote:

We've got some platform-specific notes in the "managing kernel
resources" (17.4.1 on 8.4devel) page.  Since we recently got
platform-specific sections in the installation instructions (15.8), it
seems a good idea to move these notes to the new sections.


It was my intent to make 15.8 platform-specific *installation* notes. 
Platform-specific run time and configuration notes should be kept close 
to where those issues are discussed, IMO.


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Re: [DOCS] [ADMIN] shared_buffers and shmmax

2008-12-16 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Bruce Momjian wrote:

> OK, I never got the change applied because of Alvaro's objection so
> there is nothing to revert.   Alvaro said he has an idea for improved
> wording;  I do not.

I think we should add a more explicit note, like in the attached patch.

-- 
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The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
Index: runtime.sgml
===
RCS file: /home/alvherre/Code/cvs/pgsql/doc/src/sgml/runtime.sgml,v
retrieving revision 1.422
diff -c -p -r1.422 runtime.sgml
*** runtime.sgml	20 Nov 2008 11:48:26 -	1.422
--- runtime.sgml	16 Dec 2008 14:40:42 -
*** set semsys:seminfo_semmsl=32
*** 1124,1129 
--- 1124,1139 
   
  
 
+ 
+
+ 
+  The multipliers for shared_buffers and
+  wal_buffers should be the number of buffers, not the
+  amount in bytes.  To find out the number of shared or wal buffers, divide
+  the amount in bytes by  and
+  , respectively.
+ 
+

  
  

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[DOCS] "managing kernel resources" and platform-specific notes

2008-12-16 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Hi,

We've got some platform-specific notes in the "managing kernel
resources" (17.4.1 on 8.4devel) page.  Since we recently got
platform-specific sections in the installation instructions (15.8), it
seems a good idea to move these notes to the new sections.

Opinions?

-- 
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The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.

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Re: [DOCS] [ADMIN] shared_buffers and shmmax

2008-12-16 Thread Alvaro Herrera
Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> Bruce Momjian wrote:
> 
> > OK, I never got the change applied because of Alvaro's objection so
> > there is nothing to revert.   Alvaro said he has an idea for improved
> > wording;  I do not.
> 
> I think we should add a more explicit note, like in the attached patch.

Committed.  Bruce told me on IM he still wants to do more changes.

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The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.

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Re: [DOCS] [ADMIN] shared_buffers and shmmax

2008-12-16 Thread Bruce Momjian
Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> > Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > 
> > > OK, I never got the change applied because of Alvaro's objection so
> > > there is nothing to revert.   Alvaro said he has an idea for improved
> > > wording;  I do not.
> > 
> > I think we should add a more explicit note, like in the attached patch.
> 
> Committed.  Bruce told me on IM he still wants to do more changes.
> 
> -- 
> Alvaro Herrerahttp://www.CommandPrompt.com/
> The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.

OK, updated patch.  I added item descriptions and removed Alvaro's
paragraph;  I worked with Alvaro on this patch.

You can see the output in table 17-2:

http://momjian.us/tmp/pgsql/kernel-resources.html

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  http://momjian.us
  EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com

  + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
Index: doc/src/sgml/runtime.sgml
===
RCS file: /cvsroot/pgsql/doc/src/sgml/runtime.sgml,v
retrieving revision 1.423
diff -c -c -r1.423 runtime.sgml
*** doc/src/sgml/runtime.sgml	16 Dec 2008 19:30:43 -	1.423
--- doc/src/sgml/runtime.sgml	16 Dec 2008 22:01:14 -
***
*** 1087,1141 
   

 Name
!Approximate multiplier (bytes per increment) as of 8.3

   
  
   

 
!1800 + 270 * 

  

 
!1800 + 270 * 

  

 
!770 + 270 * 

  

 
!8400 (assuming 8 kB BLCKSZ)

  

 
!8200 (assuming 8 kB XLOG_BLCKSZ)

  

 Fixed space requirements
!770 kB

   
  
 
  
!
! 
!  The multipliers for shared_buffers and
!  wal_buffers should be the number of buffers, not the
!  amount in bytes.  To find out the number of shared or wal buffers, divide
!  the amount in bytes by  and
!  , respectively.
! 
!
!   
! 
  

 Resource Limits
--- 1087,1137 
   

 Name
!Shared memory requirements, as of 8.3

   
  
   

 
!1800 + 270 *  bytes per connection

  

 
!1800 + 270 *  bytes per worker

  

 
!770 + 270 *  bytes per prepared transaction

  

 
! + 208 bytes per shared buffer

  

 
! + 8 bytes per WAL buffer

  

 Fixed space requirements
!770k bytes

   
  
 
  
!
! These shared memory allocations are reserved at database server
! start and remain static.
!
  

 Resource Limits

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Re: [DOCS] [ADMIN] shared_buffers and shmmax

2008-12-16 Thread Tom Lane
Bruce Momjian  writes:
> OK, updated patch.  I added item descriptions and removed Alvaro's
> paragraph;  I worked with Alvaro on this patch.

This still seems pretty misleading, as for example
  
>
> 
>  
> !1800 + 270 *  !linkend="guc-max-locks-per-transaction"> bytes per connection
> 

sounds like it might mean bytes per *active* connection, when of course
the correct way to figure it is by multiplying by max_connections.
If you're going to give a formula, why not just give a formula, eg

(1800 + 270 * max_locks_per_transaction) * (max_connections + 
autovacuum_max_workers)

regards, tom lane

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Re: [DOCS] [ADMIN] shared_buffers and shmmax

2008-12-16 Thread Bruce Momjian
Tom Lane wrote:
> Bruce Momjian  writes:
> > OK, updated patch.  I added item descriptions and removed Alvaro's
> > paragraph;  I worked with Alvaro on this patch.
> 
> This still seems pretty misleading, as for example
>   
> >
> > 
> >  
> > !1800 + 270 *  > !linkend="guc-max-locks-per-transaction"> bytes per 
> > connection
> > 
> 
> sounds like it might mean bytes per *active* connection, when of course
> the correct way to figure it is by multiplying by max_connections.
> If you're going to give a formula, why not just give a formula, eg
> 
>   (1800 + 270 * max_locks_per_transaction) * (max_connections + 
> autovacuum_max_workers)
> 
>   regards, tom lane

You mean like this:

http://momjian.us/tmp/pgsql/kernel-resources.html

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  http://momjian.us
  EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com

  + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
Index: doc/src/sgml/runtime.sgml
===
RCS file: /cvsroot/pgsql/doc/src/sgml/runtime.sgml,v
retrieving revision 1.423
diff -c -c -r1.423 runtime.sgml
*** doc/src/sgml/runtime.sgml   16 Dec 2008 19:30:43 -  1.423
--- doc/src/sgml/runtime.sgml   17 Dec 2008 01:30:21 -
***
*** 1087,1141 
   

 Name
!Approximate multiplier (bytes per increment) as of 8.3

   
  
   

!
!1800 + 270 * 
!   
! 
!   
!
!1800 + 270 * 

  

 
!770 + 270 * 

  

 
!8400 (assuming 8 kB BLCKSZ)

  

 
!8200 (assuming 8 kB XLOG_BLCKSZ)

  

 Fixed space requirements
!770 kB

   
  
 
  
!
! 
!  The multipliers for shared_buffers and
!  wal_buffers should be the number of buffers, not the
!  amount in bytes.  To find out the number of shared or wal buffers, divide
!  the amount in bytes by  and
!  , respectively.
! 
!
!   
! 
  

 Resource Limits
--- 1087,1132 
   

 Name
!Shared memory bytes required, as of 8.3

   
  
   

!, 
!(1800 + 270 * ) * ( + )

  

 
!(770 + 270 * ) * 

  

 
!( + 208) * 

  

 
!( + 8) * 

  

 Fixed space requirements
!770k bytes

   
  
 
  
!
! These shared memory allocations are reserved at database server
! start and remain static.
!
  

 Resource Limits

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Re: [DOCS] [ADMIN] shared_buffers and shmmax

2008-12-16 Thread Tom Lane
Bruce Momjian  writes:
> Tom Lane wrote:
>> If you're going to give a formula, why not just give a formula, eg

> You mean like this:
>   http://momjian.us/tmp/pgsql/kernel-resources.html

Yeah, more or less.  A couple thoughts now that I see it worked out:

* Combining the entries for max_connections and autovacuum_max_workers
is probably just making it look more complicated than it needs to.
How about two rows that just happen to have similar formulas, viz

max_connections (1800 + 270 * max_locks_per_transaction) * 
max_connections
autovacuum_max_workers  (1800 + 270 * max_locks_per_transaction) * 
autovacuum_max_workers

* The right-hand column header should be something like "Approximate
shared memory bytes..." to avoid the impression that these formulas
are meant to be exact.

* If we do it like this then the left-hand column is really redundant,
not to say wrong because the right-hand formulas depend on more than
the single variable mentioned.  How about something like

Table 17-2  PostgreSQL shared memory usage

Purpose Approximate number of bytes required (as of 8.3)

Per-connection state(1800 + 270 * max_locks_per_transaction) * 
max_connections
Autovacuum worker state (1800 + 270 * max_locks_per_transaction) * 
autovacuum_max_workers
Prepared transaction state  ...
Shared disk buffers ...
WAL buffers ...
Fixed space requirements770kB


regards, tom lane

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