Re: [GENERAL] Python versus Other Languages using PostgreSQL

[John R Pierce]

On 5/10/2017 2:43 PM, Adrian Klaver wrote:

1) Uber
2)Yahoo
3) Instagram 


and, each of those giant businesses has their own entirely custom 
'platforms', so its not really fair to call them 'largest web platforms' 
as each of those custom platforms is in use at only one business.   
Sure, largest web SITES by traffic, usage.


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Re: [GENERAL] Python versus Other Languages using PostgreSQL

[Adrian Klaver]

On 05/10/2017 12:46 PM, Paul Hughes wrote:

Adrian Klaver Wrote:


Many on this list(myself included) will want to know how you came to that 
conclusion and I am speaking as someone who uses Python, Django and Postgres.


I came to that conclusion when I saw a list of the top 15 websites
(based on traffic). On that list, *all* of the sites that used
PostgreSQL as their primary data store, also used Python as their
primary back-end language. Those three sites are/were Yahoo, Instagram
and Uber. 3 out of 3 is a pretty high statistical correlation when


What list was that?

I ask because:

1) Uber
Why Uber Engineering Switched from Postgres to MySQL
https://eng.uber.com/mysql-migration/

2)Yahoo
AFAIK Yahoo uses just the Postgresql SQL parser over their own database. 
Also Yahoo makes extensive use of JavaScript and other technologies 
beside Python.


3) Instagram
Probably still Python/Postgres based though now they are part of 
Facebook it will be interesting to see if that changes.




you're only talking about a sample of 15. Given that, my saying, "I
noticed that most of the largest web platforms that use PostgreSQL as
their primary database, also use Python as their primary back-end
language.", was a fair observation. An observation is just that (one
blind man feeling an elephant). Saying "I noticed that" is a *very*
different thing than making an assertion.





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Re: [GENERAL] Python versus Other Languages using PostgreSQL

[Gavin Flower]

Hi Paul,

See comments at the end...

On 10/05/17 08:00, Paul Hughes wrote:
Thank you all for taking the time to answer my questions. I've been 
out of the programming world for a long time, so I am back to being a 
newbie.
Even if you stay in the game, technology changes - so one has to keep 
learning and adapting.


When I started mighty MainFrames roamed the planet - now a low end smart 
phone has over a thousand times more memory & processing power, than the 
first MainFrame (ICL 4/72) I ever programmed in COBOL .  Now I use Java 
& other newer languages on a Linux box with a processor chip with more 
cache than any MainFrame's main memory that I ever programmed.


I was told this is the place for newcomers to ask questions. I 
apologize if my questions did not contain the necessary sophistication 
or nuance for some to answer.


I don't think that is too much of a problem, haven't seen anyone tell 
you to RTFM!!!


[...]

It is normal on this list not to top post, but rather to add comments at 
the end (so people can see the context) - though interspersed comments 
in the body of the text is okay when appropriate!



Cheers,
Gavin




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Re: [GENERAL] Python versus Other Languages using PostgreSQL

[Paul Hughes]

Adrian Klaver Wrote:

>>Many on this list(myself included) will want to know how you came to that
conclusion and I am speaking as someone who uses Python, Django and
Postgres.

I came to that conclusion when I saw a list of the top 15 websites (based
on traffic). On that list, *all* of the sites that used PostgreSQL as their
primary data store, also used Python as their primary back-end language.
Those three sites are/were Yahoo, Instagram and Uber. 3 out of 3 is a
pretty high statistical correlation when you're only talking about a sample
of 15. Given that, my saying, "I noticed that most of the largest web
platforms that use PostgreSQL as their primary database, also use Python as
their primary back-end language.", was a fair observation. An observation
is just that (one blind man feeling an elephant). Saying "I noticed that"
is a *very* different thing than making an assertion.



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<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 7:37 AM, Adrian Klaver 
wrote:

> On 05/09/2017 01:00 PM, Paul Hughes wrote:
>
>> Thank you all for taking the time to answer my questions. I've been out
>> of the programming world for a long time, so I am back to being a newbie. I
>> was told this is the place for newcomers to ask questions. I apologize if
>> my questions did not contain the necessary sophistication or nuance for
>> some to answer.
>>
>
> It has more to do with making unsubstantiated assertions, namely:
>
> "I noticed that most of the largest web platforms that use PostgreSQL as
> their primary database, also use Python as their primary back-end language.
> ..."
>
> Many on this list(myself included) will want to know how you came to that
> conclusion and I am speaking as someone who uses Python, Django and
> Postgres.
>
>
>
>> George, your answer makes the most sense. Thank you!  You said:
>>
>> Most cloud servers come preconfigured with some variation of either

>>> the "LAMP" or "LAPP" stack: i.e. Linux, Apache, MySQL or Postgresql,
>> PHP or Python.
>>
>> There needs to be a compelling *application* reason to install

>>> something else: a JVM (or Apache-Tomcat vs regular Apache),
>> Ruby/Rails, Groovy/Grails, etc.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Adrian Klaver
> adrian.kla...@aklaver.com
>



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Re: [GENERAL] Python versus Other Languages using PostgreSQL

[Adrian Klaver]

On 05/09/2017 01:00 PM, Paul Hughes wrote:
Thank you all for taking the time to answer my questions. I've been out 
of the programming world for a long time, so I am back to being a 
newbie. I was told this is the place for newcomers to ask questions. I 
apologize if my questions did not contain the necessary sophistication 
or nuance for some to answer.


It has more to do with making unsubstantiated assertions, namely:

"I noticed that most of the largest web platforms that use PostgreSQL as 
their primary database, also use Python as their primary back-end 
language. ..."


Many on this list(myself included) will want to know how you came to 
that conclusion and I am speaking as someone who uses Python, Django and 
Postgres.




George, your answer makes the most sense. Thank you!  You said:


Most cloud servers come preconfigured with some variation of either

the "LAMP" or "LAPP" stack: i.e. Linux, Apache, MySQL or Postgresql,
PHP or Python.


There needs to be a compelling *application* reason to install

something else: a JVM (or Apache-Tomcat vs regular Apache),
Ruby/Rails, Groovy/Grails, etc.






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Re: [GENERAL] Python versus Other Languages using PostgreSQL

[Paul Hughes]

Thank you all for taking the time to answer my questions. I've been out of
the programming world for a long time, so I am back to being a newbie. I
was told this is the place for newcomers to ask questions. I apologize if
my questions did not contain the necessary sophistication or nuance for
some to answer.

George, your answer makes the most sense. Thank you!  You said:

>>Most cloud servers come preconfigured with some variation of either
the "LAMP" or "LAPP" stack: i.e. Linux, Apache, MySQL or Postgresql,
PHP or Python.

>>There needs to be a compelling *application* reason to install
something else: a JVM (or Apache-Tomcat vs regular Apache),
Ruby/Rails, Groovy/Grails, etc.

>


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On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 7:54 AM, George Neuner  wrote:

> On Mon, 8 May 2017 14:26:02 -0700, Paul Hughes 
> wrote:
>
> >Hello,
> >
> >I noticed that most of the largest web platforms that use PostgreSQL as
> >their primary database, also use Python as their primary back-end
> language.
> >Yet, according to every benchmark I could find over the last couple of
> >years, back-end languages like PHP, HHVM, and Node.JS outperform Python by
> >2x to 8x!
> >
> >So here are my questions:
> >
> >1) Why do the largest web applications that use PostgreSQL also use
> Python,
> >even though Python is significantly slower than it's biggest competitors?
>
> Most cloud servers come preconfigured with some variation of either
> the "LAMP" or "LAPP" stack: i.e. Linux, Apache, MySQL or Postgresql,
> PHP or Python.
>
> There needs to be a compelling *application* reason to install
> something else: a JVM (or Apache-Tomcat vs regular Apache),
> Ruby/Rails, Groovy/Grails, etc.
>
>
> >2) Can PostgreSQL just as easily be used with PHP or Node.js? If not, why
> >not?
>
> Absolutely.  The DBMS is (programming) language neutral - the only
> requirement is that a client speak the wire protocol.  That can be
> done natively, or via a library/driver.
>
>
> >3) Can PostgreSQL be made to work seamlessly to take advantage of the
> >superior performance of HHVM or Node.js?
>
> Not really sure what you're asking.  The application running under
> HHVM or node.js is completely separate from Postgresql.
>
> Both PHP and Javascript (generically and for node.js specifically)
> have libraries for Postgresql.
>
>
> George
>
>
>
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Re: [GENERAL] Python versus Other Languages using PostgreSQL

[Karsten Hilbert]

On Mon, May 08, 2017 at 05:45:53PM -0700, Paul Hughes wrote:

> Why are Postgres and Python so married,

I dare say that's a misconception.

However, Python "works so well", that "professional amateurs"
(like myself) who gravitate towards PostgreSQL for the
obvious reasons might tend to chose Python for the very same
reasons which may seem to create a bias.

Karsten
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Re: [GENERAL] Python versus Other Languages using PostgreSQL

[Dick Kniep]

As a long time user of the combination, Postgresql, Python, Django, 
Flask etc. here are my 2 cents:


The frameworks of python; Django (enormous) or Flask (smaller) and there 
are more, are of superb quality, battle hardened and are used in many 
many companies and high volume sites around the world. The rigid 
implementation of the mvc concept makes for readable, maintainable code. 
This is far far more important than execution speed, because:


- most modern application use databases where the IO time is always much 
much more important than the speed of processing.


- The power (enormous) of the current hardware is such that extra cycles 
do not cost much


- Price (virtually nothing) of the current hardware allows for swift 
adding of extra hardware if necessary


- Price of developers is very very high, so any gain in development 
speed directly returns to the company as MUCH less expense


- The reliability of the Postgresql has always been a very strong point 
(I myself use it since 2002 and have had hardly any problems with it) 
even under bad circumstances. The loss of data because of a malfunction 
of the database does simply not occur. This comes at a cost (raw speed), 
but the cost of loosing data is much much higher than a little extra 
hardware.


Cheers


On 09-05-17 16:48, Francisco Olarte wrote:

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 1:44 PM, vinny  wrote:

In fact, I don't think many companies/developers even choose a language
or database, but rather just use whatever they have experience in.

That is choosing. You choose them because you know them.


Francisco Olarte.






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Re: [GENERAL] Python versus Other Languages using PostgreSQL

[Steve Crawford]

On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 2:26 PM, Paul Hughes  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I noticed that most of the largest web platforms that use PostgreSQL as
> their primary database, also use Python as their primary back-end language.
> Yet, according to every benchmark I could find over the last couple of
> years, back-end languages like PHP, HHVM, and Node.JS outperform Python by
> 2x to 8x!
>

This is a questionable and incomplete starting point starting with a vague
assertion lacking a reasonable set of examples.

You are conflating languages (PHP, Python) with various environments in
which they run (the Node.js runtime for Javascript and HHVM virtual machine
for PHP/Hack), failing to provide version/implementation/acceleration
information of the languages (Zend, PyPy,), and failing to state anything
about the environment: Is it raw code or are we actually discussing
framework performance? What are other requirements/constraints on the
overall system?

Picking a single data-point (speed) of a single part of a system (back end
language) is not typically informative. There is speed of development,
availability of developers, feature sets, robustness, licensing,
availability of commercial support, security issues and ability to
integrate with other parts of a corporate environment to name just a few.
The impact of the language speed may be minuscule compared to the impact of
other aspects of the overall system. One could as easily ask, "Why do so
many people use PHP when assembler is so much faster?"

If speed is the only requirement you can get a great boost in PostgreSQL by
turning off fsync. Of course you may lose all your data in a crash but,
hey, it's faster!

To quote our own illustrious Tom Lane:

"...Try to carry 500 people from Los Angeles to Tokyo in an F-15.  No?  Try
to win a dogfight in a 747.  No? But they both fly, so it must be useful to
compare them...  especially on the basis of the most simplistic test case
you can think of.  For extra points, use *only one* test case.  Perhaps
this paper can be described as "comparing an F-15 to a 747 on the basis of
required runway length...".

To really determine the answer you would have to ask each one why they
chose their specific combination of language(s) database, OS, hardware/VM,
caching, pooling, etc.; what they would do differently in retrospect and
also evaluate the validity of those decisions. For the most part we, here,
can only guess.



> So here are my questions:
>
> 1) Why do the largest web applications that use PostgreSQL also use
> Python, even though Python is significantly slower than it's biggest
> competitors?
>

See comments above.


>
> 2) Can PostgreSQL just as easily be used with PHP or Node.js? If not, why
> not?
>
>
Yes. We have PHP, Python, Ruby, C, Bash (via psql), Perl, LibreOffice, etc.
directly connecting to our server. There is also client support for Java,
.NET, Tcl, C++, ODBC, Erlang, Haskell, Lua, R, Smalltalk, ...


> 3) Can PostgreSQL be made to work seamlessly to take advantage of the
> superior performance of HHVM or Node.js?
>

See above.


>
>
> Thank you in advance!
>
> ~Paul
>
>
> 
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>

Re: [GENERAL] Python versus Other Languages using PostgreSQL

[George Neuner]

On Mon, 8 May 2017 14:26:02 -0700, Paul Hughes 
wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I noticed that most of the largest web platforms that use PostgreSQL as
>their primary database, also use Python as their primary back-end language.
>Yet, according to every benchmark I could find over the last couple of
>years, back-end languages like PHP, HHVM, and Node.JS outperform Python by
>2x to 8x!
>
>So here are my questions:
>
>1) Why do the largest web applications that use PostgreSQL also use Python,
>even though Python is significantly slower than it's biggest competitors?

Most cloud servers come preconfigured with some variation of either
the "LAMP" or "LAPP" stack: i.e. Linux, Apache, MySQL or Postgresql,
PHP or Python.

There needs to be a compelling *application* reason to install
something else: a JVM (or Apache-Tomcat vs regular Apache),
Ruby/Rails, Groovy/Grails, etc.


>2) Can PostgreSQL just as easily be used with PHP or Node.js? If not, why
>not?

Absolutely.  The DBMS is (programming) language neutral - the only
requirement is that a client speak the wire protocol.  That can be
done natively, or via a library/driver.


>3) Can PostgreSQL be made to work seamlessly to take advantage of the
>superior performance of HHVM or Node.js?

Not really sure what you're asking.  The application running under
HHVM or node.js is completely separate from Postgresql.  

Both PHP and Javascript (generically and for node.js specifically)
have libraries for Postgresql.


George



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Re: [GENERAL] Python versus Other Languages using PostgreSQL

[Francisco Olarte]

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 1:44 PM, vinny  wrote:
> In fact, I don't think many companies/developers even choose a language
> or database, but rather just use whatever they have experience in.

That is choosing. You choose them because you know them.


Francisco Olarte.


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Re: [GENERAL] Python versus Other Languages using PostgreSQL

[Geoff Winkless]

On 8 May 2017 at 22:26, Paul Hughes  wrote:

> I noticed that most of the largest web platforms that use PostgreSQL as
> their primary database, also use Python as their primary back-end language.
> Yet, according to every benchmark I could find over the last couple of
> years, back-end languages like PHP, HHVM, and Node.JS outperform Python by
> 2x to 8x!
>
> So here are my questions:
>
> 1) Why do the largest web applications that use PostgreSQL also use
> Python, even though Python is significantly slower than it's biggest
> competitors?
>

​I've no experience of whether this is true. But in most cases, especially
web platforms, the speed of the language is almost irrelevant. Most
computers are fast enough these days that (for most applications) they
spend most of their time in IO_WAIT, whether you write your code in C or in
shell script. If you have strong experience in a particular language then
​you should use that language, and invest time in optimising your data
structures and developing faster algorithms.

Geoff

Re: [GENERAL] Python versus Other Languages using PostgreSQL

[Peter Devoy]

> My question still remains though - why is it that all the largest web 
> platforms that have used PostgreSQL *specifically* choose Python as their 
> back-end language?
If you write the developers a nice tweet or e-mail they might tell
you.  Anything else is going to be speculation because there are a
plethora of domain, human and environmental factors which could lead
to language and architecture choices, not least of which is skills
available in the labour market.

Peter

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On 9 May 2017 at 14:45, D'Arcy Cain  wrote:
> On 2017-05-09 05:26 AM, Francisco Olarte wrote:
>>
>> Do you have any data supporting that? AFAIK people tend to choose the
>> language first, database second, not the other way round, and many
>> times the platform language is nailed, but the db can be changed.
>> Also, WHICH platforms are you referring to?
>
>
> Perhaps it has something to do with the license.  Both Python and PostgreSQL
> have a BSD type licence.  I wonder if the platform of choice tends to be one
> of the BSDs as well.
>
> --
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Re: [GENERAL] Python versus Other Languages using PostgreSQL

[Guyren Howe]

On May 9, 2017, at 2:07 , Paul Hughes  wrote:
> 
> Postgres might be a popular choice among Rails devs, but Ruby is not as 
> popular among the big web platforms that choose Postgres. 

Ahem.

AirBnB, Bloomberg, Crunchbase, Github, Groupon, Heroku, Hulu, Kickstarter, 
Scribd, Shopify, Slideshare, SoundCloud, Square, Twitch, Whitepages.

Re: [GENERAL] Python versus Other Languages using PostgreSQL

[D'Arcy Cain]

On 2017-05-09 05:26 AM, Francisco Olarte wrote:

Do you have any data supporting that? AFAIK people tend to choose the
language first, database second, not the other way round, and many
times the platform language is nailed, but the db can be changed.
Also, WHICH platforms are you referring to?


Perhaps it has something to do with the license.  Both Python and 
PostgreSQL have a BSD type licence.  I wonder if the platform of choice 
tends to be one of the BSDs as well.


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Re: [GENERAL] Python versus Other Languages using PostgreSQL

[vinny]

On 2017-05-09 11:26, Francisco Olarte wrote:

Paul:

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 2:45 AM, Paul Hughes  wrote:
My question still remains though - why is it that all the largest 
web platforms that have used PostgreSQL *specifically* choose Python 
as their back-end language?


Do you have any data supporting that? AFAIK people tend to choose the
language first, database second, not the other way round, and many
times the platform language is nailed, but the db can be changed.


In fact, I don't think many companies/developers even choose a language
or database, but rather just use whatever they have experience in.



Why are Postgres and Python so married, in the same way that Node.js 
is largely married to MondogDB?


I do not think either of these is true.



Perhaps not in real world applications, but the vast majority of 
tutorials etc certainly

connect PHP to MySQL, Node to Mongo and Python to PostgreSQL.


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Re: [GENERAL] Python versus Other Languages using PostgreSQL

[Neil Anderson]

On 9 May 2017 at 06:20, Neil Anderson  wrote:
> On 9 May 2017 at 05:26, Francisco Olarte  wrote:
>> Paul:
>>
>> On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 2:45 AM, Paul Hughes  wrote:
>>> My question still remains though - why is it that all the largest web 
>>> platforms that have used PostgreSQL *specifically* choose Python as their 
>>> back-end language?
>>
>> Do you have any data supporting that? AFAIK people tend to choose the
>> language first, database second, not the other way round, and many
>> times the platform language is nailed, but the db can be changed.
>> Also, WHICH platforms are you referring to?
>
> Well put. So far I've worked with Flask, Pylons, Rails and ASP.net.
> All have an ORM layer (SQLAlchemy, ActiveRecord, EntityFramework) with
> support for several database technologies. The framework* is specific
> and fixed but can pull data from anywhere.

*The language is specific and fixed but the data can come from anywhere.

>
>>
>>> Why are Postgres and Python so married, in the same way that Node.js is 
>>> largely married to MondogDB?
>>
>> I do not think either of these is true.
>>
>> Francisco Olarte.
>>
>>
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Re: [GENERAL] Python versus Other Languages using PostgreSQL

[Neil Anderson]

On 9 May 2017 at 05:26, Francisco Olarte  wrote:
> Paul:
>
> On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 2:45 AM, Paul Hughes  wrote:
>> My question still remains though - why is it that all the largest web 
>> platforms that have used PostgreSQL *specifically* choose Python as their 
>> back-end language?
>
> Do you have any data supporting that? AFAIK people tend to choose the
> language first, database second, not the other way round, and many
> times the platform language is nailed, but the db can be changed.
> Also, WHICH platforms are you referring to?

Well put. So far I've worked with Flask, Pylons, Rails and ASP.net.
All have an ORM layer (SQLAlchemy, ActiveRecord, EntityFramework) with
support for several database technologies. The framework is specific
and fixed but can pull data from anywhere.

>
>> Why are Postgres and Python so married, in the same way that Node.js is 
>> largely married to MondogDB?
>
> I do not think either of these is true.
>
> Francisco Olarte.
>
>
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Re: [GENERAL] Python versus Other Languages using PostgreSQL

[Francisco Olarte]

Paul:

On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 2:45 AM, Paul Hughes  wrote:
> My question still remains though - why is it that all the largest web 
> platforms that have used PostgreSQL *specifically* choose Python as their 
> back-end language?

Do you have any data supporting that? AFAIK people tend to choose the
language first, database second, not the other way round, and many
times the platform language is nailed, but the db can be changed.
Also, WHICH platforms are you referring to?

> Why are Postgres and Python so married, in the same way that Node.js is 
> largely married to MondogDB?

I do not think either of these is true.

Francisco Olarte.


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Re: [GENERAL] Python versus Other Languages using PostgreSQL

[Neil Anderson]

I'm also interested to know which frameworks you're referring to?

Regarding Node and Mongo I imagine that they are well suited because
Mongo stores JSON documents and Node, being Javascript, has first
class support for JSON. Python and PostgreSQL's relationship might be
more of a principled one? Pythonic being a characteristic not
dissimilar to stable, reliable and of high quality.

On 8 May 2017 at 21:22, Adrian Klaver  wrote:
> On 05/08/2017 05:45 PM, Paul Hughes wrote:
>>
>> Thank you for the links. I'm glad there are other languages that are
>> working with PostgreSQL. My question still remains though - why is it that
>> all the largest web platforms that have used PostgreSQL *specifically*
>> choose Python as their back-end language? Why are Postgres and Python so
>> married, in the same way that Node.js is largely married to MondogDB?
>
>
> I think you are going to have name frameworks, because AFAIK Drupal uses
> PHP, Ruby on Rails uses Rails and so on:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_web_frameworks
>
> As to why Postgres and Python seem to be attached I would say that is
> because about the time people started looking for an alternative to
> MySQL/PHP, Python reached the state and breadth of distribution to became
> the language to pair with Postgres.
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 3:50 PM, Adrian Klaver > > wrote:
>>
>> On 05/08/2017 02:26 PM, Paul Hughes wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I noticed that most of the largest web platforms that use
>> PostgreSQL as
>> their primary database, also use Python as their primary back-end
>> language. Yet, according to every benchmark I could find over
>> the last
>> couple of years, back-end languages like PHP, HHVM, and Node.JS
>> outperform Python by 2x to 8x!
>>
>>
>> Postgres does not really care what you use to pull data from it.
>> There are many libraries across many languages that you can use.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> Virus-free. www.avast.com
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>>
>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
>
>
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Re: [GENERAL] Python versus Other Languages using PostgreSQL

[Paul Hughes]

Thank you for the links. I'm glad there are other languages that are
working with PostgreSQL. My question still remains though - why is it that
all the largest web platforms that have used PostgreSQL *specifically*
choose Python as their back-end language? Why are Postgres and Python so
married, in the same way that Node.js is largely married to MondogDB?


On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 3:50 PM, Adrian Klaver 
wrote:

> On 05/08/2017 02:26 PM, Paul Hughes wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I noticed that most of the largest web platforms that use PostgreSQL as
>> their primary database, also use Python as their primary back-end
>> language. Yet, according to every benchmark I could find over the last
>> couple of years, back-end languages like PHP, HHVM, and Node.JS
>> outperform Python by 2x to 8x!
>>
>
> Postgres does not really care what you use to pull data from it. There are
> many libraries across many languages that you can use.





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Re: [GENERAL] Python versus Other Languages using PostgreSQL

[Adrian Klaver]

On 05/08/2017 05:45 PM, Paul Hughes wrote:
Thank you for the links. I'm glad there are other languages that are 
working with PostgreSQL. My question still remains though - why is it 
that all the largest web platforms that have used PostgreSQL 
*specifically* choose Python as their back-end language? Why are 
Postgres and Python so married, in the same way that Node.js is largely 
married to MondogDB?


I think you are going to have name frameworks, because AFAIK Drupal uses 
PHP, Ruby on Rails uses Rails and so on:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_web_frameworks

As to why Postgres and Python seem to be attached I would say that is 
because about the time people started looking for an alternative to 
MySQL/PHP, Python reached the state and breadth of distribution to 
became the language to pair with Postgres.





On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 3:50 PM, Adrian Klaver > wrote:


On 05/08/2017 02:26 PM, Paul Hughes wrote:

Hello,

I noticed that most of the largest web platforms that use
PostgreSQL as
their primary database, also use Python as their primary back-end
language. Yet, according to every benchmark I could find over
the last
couple of years, back-end languages like PHP, HHVM, and Node.JS
outperform Python by 2x to 8x!


Postgres does not really care what you use to pull data from it.
There are many libraries across many languages that you can use.




 
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Re: [GENERAL] Python versus Other Languages using PostgreSQL

[Adrian Klaver]

On 05/08/2017 02:26 PM, Paul Hughes wrote:

Hello,

I noticed that most of the largest web platforms that use PostgreSQL as
their primary database, also use Python as their primary back-end
language. Yet, according to every benchmark I could find over the last
couple of years, back-end languages like PHP, HHVM, and Node.JS
outperform Python by 2x to 8x!


Postgres does not really care what you use to pull data from it. There 
are many libraries across many languages that you can use.




So here are my questions:

1) Why do the largest web applications that use PostgreSQL also use
Python, even though Python is significantly slower than it's biggest
competitors?


Because the Python code that does the SELECT * from some_table is not 
going to be the part that really determines performance. Performance is 
going to be dependent on well provisioned the database is and what you 
are using to display the data.




2) Can PostgreSQL just as easily be used with PHP or Node.js? If not,
why not?


See above.



3) Can PostgreSQL be made to work seamlessly to take advantage of the
superior performance of HHVM or Node.js?


A quick search on node.js Postgres found:

https://github.com/brianc/node-postgres

http://mherman.org/blog/2015/02/12/postgresql-and-nodejs/#.WRD1XK3TD4Y

php Postgres:

http://php.net/manual/en/book.pgsql.php

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-make-postgresql-db-connections-php-j-c-thomas-rogers-iii




Thank you in advance!

~Paul


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[GENERAL] Python versus Other Languages using PostgreSQL

[Paul Hughes]

Hello,

I noticed that most of the largest web platforms that use PostgreSQL as
their primary database, also use Python as their primary back-end language.
Yet, according to every benchmark I could find over the last couple of
years, back-end languages like PHP, HHVM, and Node.JS outperform Python by
2x to 8x!

So here are my questions:

1) Why do the largest web applications that use PostgreSQL also use Python,
even though Python is significantly slower than it's biggest competitors?

2) Can PostgreSQL just as easily be used with PHP or Node.js? If not, why
not?

3) Can PostgreSQL be made to work seamlessly to take advantage of the
superior performance of HHVM or Node.js?


Thank you in advance!

~Paul


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