Re: [GENERAL] hibernate + postgresql ?
On Saturday 1 December 2007 David Fetter's cat, walking on the keyboard, wrote: You'd only think so if you hadn't actually seen these things in action. They save no time because of the silly, unreasonable assumptions underlying them, which in turn cause people to do silly, unreasonable things in order to make them work. I guess this is a problem you can have with all the middlewares, since they can improve things putting on abstractions, but when they start doing things in a way that is not tied to the lower level they must be general and start imposing a methodology rather than a technology. By the way, is there something in particular you are talking about? You'll wind up writing each SQL statement anyway, so just start out with that rather than imagining that a piece of software can pick the appropriate level of abstraction and then finding out that it can't. :) Uhm...even if you write the SQL statements by hand you will end up (probabily) writing your own piece of software that gives you any kind of abstraction, so there's a risk you can find it inadeguate too later in the development process. By the way I don't still understand if you find them inadeguate because you'll write SQL statements to keep performances, data integrity, both. Luca ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org/
Re: [GENERAL] hibernate + postgresql ?
On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 08:10:11AM +0100, Luca Ferrari wrote: On Thursday 29 November 2007 Joshua D. Drake's cat, walking on the keyboard, wrote: If you are not lazy you can push outside the standard hibernate methods and produce very usable code but then you have to wonder why you have hibernate there at all. What do you mean with this? I think ORM could save developers' time especially when there are a lot of relationships among objects, that should be manually mapped thru SQL statements. You'd only think so if you hadn't actually seen these things in action. They save no time because of the silly, unreasonable assumptions underlying them, which in turn cause people to do silly, unreasonable things in order to make them work. Now what do you mean with push outside hibernate methods? You write the each SQL statement or simply skip some Hibernate facilities? You'll wind up writing each SQL statement anyway, so just start out with that rather than imagining that a piece of software can pick the appropriate level of abstraction and then finding out that it can't. :) Cheers, David. -- David Fetter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fetter.org/ Phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666 Yahoo!: dfetter Skype: davidfetter XMPP: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Remember to vote! Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
[GENERAL] hibernate + postgresql ?
Hello, any exprerience with Hibernate + PostgreSQL ? How does this combination is flexible and smart ? Is't possible to tune selected queries ? Regards, Oleg _ Oleg Bartunov, Research Scientist, Head of AstroNet (www.astronet.ru), Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University, Russia Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/ phone: +007(495)939-16-83, +007(495)939-23-83 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [GENERAL] hibernate + postgresql ?
i have experience with Hibernate and postggresql, what information are you exactly looking for? On Nov 29, 2007 1:52 PM, Oleg Bartunov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, any exprerience with Hibernate + PostgreSQL ? How does this combination is flexible and smart ? Is't possible to tune selected queries ? Regards, Oleg _ Oleg Bartunov, Research Scientist, Head of AstroNet (www.astronet.ru), Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University, Russia Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/http://www.sai.msu.su/%7Emegera/ phone: +007(495)939-16-83, +007(495)939-23-83 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [GENERAL] hibernate + postgresql ?
Oleg Bartunov ha scritto: Hello, any exprerience with Hibernate + PostgreSQL ? How does this combination is flexible and smart ? Is't possible to tune selected queries ? You can evaluate also JPA, openJPA (http://openjpa.apache.org/) seems good but now I have only simple query on it. Edoardo -- Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel: 075 9142766 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [GENERAL] hibernate + postgresql ?
Oleg Bartunov wrote: Hello, any exprerience with Hibernate + PostgreSQL ? How does this combination is flexible and smart ? Is't possible to tune selected queries ? In short, it sucks :). Long description: Hibernate is a mature ORM for Java. It is in use with PostgreSQL in quite a few installations and even a bunch that we are responsible for. It does work as well as any ORM can work. The problem is, its an ORM and ORMs are dumb in there actual ability to work with any real relational database. If you are not lazy you can push outside the standard hibernate methods and produce very usable code but then you have to wonder why you have hibernate there at all. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake Regards, Oleg _ Oleg Bartunov, Research Scientist, Head of AstroNet (www.astronet.ru), Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University, Russia Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/ phone: +007(495)939-16-83, +007(495)939-23-83 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org/
Re: [GENERAL] hibernate + postgresql ?
i has exactly the same discussion with a bunch of java developers over the use of Hibernate with Postgres, and most of them feel that it gives them the ability to write code and not worry about which backend will be plugged in Oracle or postgres or Mysql and any other, if you are using it with something like spring you just need to change a bunch of xml files and you are good to go . i guess its the java school of thought they like to be *platform independent* On Nov 29, 2007 8:52 PM, Joshua D. Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oleg Bartunov wrote: Hello, any exprerience with Hibernate + PostgreSQL ? How does this combination is flexible and smart ? Is't possible to tune selected queries ? In short, it sucks :). Long description: Hibernate is a mature ORM for Java. It is in use with PostgreSQL in quite a few installations and even a bunch that we are responsible for. It does work as well as any ORM can work. The problem is, its an ORM and ORMs are dumb in there actual ability to work with any real relational database. If you are not lazy you can push outside the standard hibernate methods and produce very usable code but then you have to wonder why you have hibernate there at all. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake Regards, Oleg _ Oleg Bartunov, Research Scientist, Head of AstroNet (www.astronet.ru), Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University, Russia Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/http://www.sai.msu.su/%7Emegera/ phone: +007(495)939-16-83, +007(495)939-23-83 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org/ -- Usama Munir Dar http://linked.com/in/usamadar Consultant Architect Cell:+92 321 5020666 Skype: usamadar
Re: [GENERAL] hibernate + postgresql ?
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007, Joshua D. Drake wrote: Oleg Bartunov wrote: Hello, any exprerience with Hibernate + PostgreSQL ? How does this combination is flexible and smart ? Is't possible to tune selected queries ? In short, it sucks :). Long description: Hibernate is a mature ORM for Java. It is in use with PostgreSQL in quite a few installations and even a bunch that we are responsible for. It does work as well as any ORM can work. The problem is, its an ORM and ORMs are dumb in there actual ability to work with any real relational database. If you are not lazy you can push outside the standard hibernate methods and produce very usable code but then you have to wonder why you have hibernate there at all. Thank you, that's what I'm afraid for. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake Regards, Oleg _ Oleg Bartunov, Research Scientist, Head of AstroNet (www.astronet.ru), Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University, Russia Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/ phone: +007(495)939-16-83, +007(495)939-23-83 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org/ Regards, Oleg _ Oleg Bartunov, Research Scientist, Head of AstroNet (www.astronet.ru), Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University, Russia Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/ phone: +007(495)939-16-83, +007(495)939-23-83 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [GENERAL] hibernate + postgresql ?
Begin forwarded message: On Nov 29, 2007 8:52 PM, Joshua D. Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oleg Bartunov wrote: Hello, any exprerience with Hibernate + PostgreSQL ? How does this combination is flexible and smart ? Is't possible to tune selected queries ? In short, it sucks :). Long description: Hibernate is a mature ORM for Java. It is in use with PostgreSQL in quite a few installations and even a bunch that we are responsible for. It does work as well as any ORM can work. The problem is, its an ORM and ORMs are dumb in there actual ability to work with any real relational database. If you are not lazy you can push outside the standard hibernate methods and produce very usable code but then you have to wonder why you have hibernate there at all. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake Well ORM has its uses. We use both Hibernate and raw SQL in the same application - SQL when we need fast querying on a database storing user data and Hibernate just to persist the state of the application to disk so it's saved between restarts. It's great not to have to manage this manually. Hibernate is slow and the generated queries can be massive yes, but in our example the only time it gets any real use is as the app is booting up and restoring Java objects from the db. On the plus side, it produces a fairly easily understood schema that matches your objects so you're able to query the state of you app objects with SQL on the command line. Regards Oliver Kohll
Re: [GENERAL] hibernate + postgresql ?
On Thursday 29 November 2007 Joshua D. Drake's cat, walking on the keyboard, wrote: If you are not lazy you can push outside the standard hibernate methods and produce very usable code but then you have to wonder why you have hibernate there at all. What do you mean with this? I think ORM could save developers' time especially when there are a lot of relationships among objects, that should be manually mapped thru SQL statements. Now what do you mean with push outside hibernate methods? You write the each SQL statement or simply skip some Hibernate facilities? Thanks, Luca ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
