Re: [HACKERS] Connect By for 8.0
Hans-Jürgen Schönig wrote: Neil Conway wrote: Robert Treat wrote: Actually i believe people want both syntax's as the former is used by oracle and the latter by db2 (iirc) I think the past consensus has been to adopt the SQL standard syntax. Is there any reason to also support the Oracle syntax other than for compatibility? (And if that is it, I think it's a pretty flimsy reason.) -Neil ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Neil, Compatibility is the ONLY reason and it is related to money (the only language people understand). We have done a lot of migration here and I can tell you that support for Oracle style CONNECT BY would make more people happy than the SQL style syntax. The reason for that is very simple: Code can be migrated without any changes (= without introducing potential bugs). I know that SQL standards are tremendously important but if there is an easy way to support Oracle syntax as well this is definitely the preferred way to go. I think it is important not to think in dogmas (in this case this means SQL syntax is always better) - there should be a reasonable compromise between compatibility and standard. My compromise would be: Support both syntaxes if possible. I can see your point, but imagine if we had Oracle compatibility for lots of cases --- our system would have either non-standard or duplicate ways of doing things, and that would be quite confusing. -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Connect By for 8.0
Bruce Momjian pgman@candle.pha.pa.us writes: Hans-Jürgen Schönig wrote: My compromise would be: Support both syntaxes if possible. I can see your point, but imagine if we had Oracle compatibility for lots of cases --- our system would have either non-standard or duplicate ways of doing things, and that would be quite confusing. Oracle has the resources to outtalk, outshout, and outlast everyone else on the SQL standards committee. Despite that, their syntax was not adopted as the standard. This should give you some clue about how badly their syntax sucks. Now why exactly should we adopt it? regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] Connect By for 8.0
Tom Lane wrote: Bruce Momjian pgman@candle.pha.pa.us writes: Hans-Jürgen Schönig wrote: My compromise would be: Support both syntaxes if possible. Great... code away. I would suggest a: oracle_compat = true/false in the postgresql.conf Yes I am kidding. The differences between Oracle and PostgreSQL for most things is not that great. If the small syntatical differences are the only thing holding them from using PostgreSQL they were not that serious in the first place. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake I can see your point, but imagine if we had Oracle compatibility for lots of cases --- our system would have either non-standard or duplicate ways of doing things, and that would be quite confusing. Oracle has the resources to outtalk, outshout, and outlast everyone else on the SQL standards committee. Despite that, their syntax was not adopted as the standard. This should give you some clue about how badly their syntax sucks. Now why exactly should we adopt it? regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match -- Command Prompt, Inc., home of Mammoth PostgreSQL - S/ODBC and S/JDBC Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and dedicated hosting. +1-503-667-4564 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.commandprompt.com PostgreSQL Replicator -- production quality replication for PostgreSQL begin:vcard fn:Joshua Drake n:Drake;Joshua org:Command Prompt, Inc. adr:;;PO Box 215 ;Cascade Locks;OR;97014;US email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Consultant tel;work:503-667-4564 tel;fax:503-210-0334 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.commandprompt.com version:2.1 end:vcard ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [HACKERS] Connect By for 8.0
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Hans-Jürgen Schönig) wrote: I think it is important not to think in dogmas (in this case this means SQL syntax is always better) - there should be a reasonable compromise between compatibility and standard. My compromise would be: Support both syntaxes if possible. As long as they can co-exist, that seems plausible. I'd personally rather see the standard form, as it's got a more diverse set of uses. If introducing the CONNECT BY form did anything to prevent implementing it the RIGHT way, I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that would be most displeased. -- output = (cbbrowne @ gmail.com) http://linuxfinances.info/info/slony.html If anyone ever markets a really well-documented Unix that doesn't require babysitting by a phalanx of provincial Unix clones, there'll be a lot of unemployable, twinky-braindamaged misfits out deservedly pounding the pavements. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Connect By for 8.0
Neil Conway wrote: Robert Treat wrote: Actually i believe people want both syntax's as the former is used by oracle and the latter by db2 (iirc) I think the past consensus has been to adopt the SQL standard syntax. Is there any reason to also support the Oracle syntax other than for compatibility? (And if that is it, I think it's a pretty flimsy reason.) -Neil ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Neil, Compatibility is the ONLY reason and it is related to money (the only language people understand). We have done a lot of migration here and I can tell you that support for Oracle style CONNECT BY would make more people happy than the SQL style syntax. The reason for that is very simple: Code can be migrated without any changes (= without introducing potential bugs). I know that SQL standards are tremendously important but if there is an easy way to support Oracle syntax as well this is definitely the preferred way to go. I think it is important not to think in dogmas (in this case this means SQL syntax is always better) - there should be a reasonable compromise between compatibility and standard. My compromise would be: Support both syntaxes if possible. Best regards, Hans -- Cybertec Geschwinde u Schoenig Schoengrabern 134, A-2020 Hollabrunn, Austria Tel: +43/660/816 40 77 www.cybertec.at, www.postgresql.at ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] Connect By for 8.0
Robert Treat wrote: Actually i believe people want both syntax's as the former is used by oracle and the latter by db2 (iirc) I think the past consensus has been to adopt the SQL standard syntax. Is there any reason to also support the Oracle syntax other than for compatibility? (And if that is it, I think it's a pretty flimsy reason.) -Neil ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Connect By for 8.0
Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: I notice the CONNECT BY patch has been updated for 8.0: http://gppl.moonbone.ru/ Seriously, we really need to get this into 8.1. Convert it to the standard WITH RECURSIVE syntax if necessary... Yep, we are just waiting for someone to do the work. -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend
[HACKERS] Connect By for 8.0
I notice the CONNECT BY patch has been updated for 8.0: http://gppl.moonbone.ru/ Seriously, we really need to get this into 8.1. Convert it to the standard WITH RECURSIVE syntax if necessary... Chris ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
