Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Anniversary Proposals -- Important Update
Tatsuo, I'm wondering if this was approved or not... We haven't approved *anything* yet. The deadline was just Saturday, and I'm still keying stuff into the conference management system. -- Josh Berkus Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [pgsql-advocacy] [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Anniversary Proposals --Important Update
-Original Message- From: Devrim GUNDUZ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 19 March 2006 23:08 To: Josh Berkus Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dave Page; pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org Subject: Re: [pgsql-advocacy] [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Anniversary Proposals --Important Update Hi, On Sun, 2006-03-19 at 11:34 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote: Well, aside from anything else, we seem likely to have you, Devrim, Magnus and maybe even Robert Treat there (Robert?). Which would mean a good time for a meeting of the Web Team, yes? It seems that I'll be there, and yes, a PostgreSQL.org web development session will be cool. Yes, agreed - good idea Josh. I'll prepare something to kick off a discussion session if that's OK with everyone? Please forward me any items to include... Regards, Dave ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [pgsql-advocacy] [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Anniversary Proposals --Important Update
Well, aside from anything else, we seem likely to have you, Devrim, Magnus and maybe even Robert Treat there (Robert?). Which would mean a good time for a meeting of the Web Team, yes? It seems that I'll be there, and yes, a PostgreSQL.org web development session will be cool. Yes, agreed - good idea Josh. I'll prepare something to kick off a discussion session if that's OK with everyone? Please forward me any items to include... Good idea. How about bringing up that bugtracker discussino, that'll at least create an animated discussion :) //Magnus ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [pgsql-advocacy] [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Anniversary Proposals --Important Update
-Original Message- From: Magnus Hagander [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 March 2006 08:31 To: Dave Page; Devrim GUNDUZ; Josh Berkus Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org Subject: RE: [pgsql-advocacy] [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Anniversary Proposals --Important Update Well, aside from anything else, we seem likely to have you, Devrim, Magnus and maybe even Robert Treat there (Robert?). Which would mean a good time for a meeting of the Web Team, yes? It seems that I'll be there, and yes, a PostgreSQL.org web development session will be cool. Yes, agreed - good idea Josh. I'll prepare something to kick off a discussion session if that's OK with everyone? Please forward me any items to include... Good idea. How about bringing up that bugtracker discussino, that'll at least create an animated discussion :) That sounds like my only other idea so far - a discussion on allowing clients to modify the config files remotely :-). Still, we could at least restart our 'duplicating wwwmaster' discussion that we had in Tokyo. /D ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [pgsql-advocacy] [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Anniversary Proposals --Important Update
On Monday 20 March 2006 03:31, Magnus Hagander wrote:
Well, aside from anything else, we seem likely to have
you, Devrim,
Magnus and maybe even Robert Treat there (Robert?). Which
would mean
a good time for a meeting of the Web Team, yes?
It seems that I'll be there, and yes, a PostgreSQL.org web
development
session will be cool.
Yes, agreed - good idea Josh. I'll prepare something to kick
off a discussion session if that's OK with everyone? Please
forward me any items to include...
Good idea. How about bringing up that bugtracker discussino, that'll at
least create an animated discussion :)
It should be easy once we we're finished discussing which CMS to port the
website to. :-P
--
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Anniversary Proposals -- Important Update
On Sat, Mar 18, 2006 at 12:38:30PM -0500, Rod Taylor wrote: One example might be a 'self-aggregating' structure. Start with one entry per minute in a table indexed by time. After 2 weeks passes, the per-minute data is aggregated and the single entry at the start of the day is updated with the aggregate value with the other entries for the day being removed. I believe this can cause significant index bloat since it results in a few entries per page in the index. FYI, that's exactly what http://rrs.decibel.org does (yeah, I know, viewcvs is down... :( ) -- Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineering Consultant [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pervasive Software http://pervasive.comwork: 512-231-6117 vcard: http://jim.nasby.net/pervasive.vcf cell: 512-569-9461 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [pgsql-advocacy] [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Anniversary Proposals -- Important Update
Dave, I wouldn't mind talking (or hosting a discussion) but have been unable to think of anything that other hackers might be interested in. I obviously can't discuss the server internals in any great depth, but if anyone wants to hear about pgadmin, pginstaller, the web infrastructure or something else I've worked on, please let me know and I'll see if I can submit a proposal. Well, aside from anything else, we seem likely to have you, Devrim, Magnus and maybe even Robert Treat there (Robert?). Which would mean a good time for a meeting of the Web Team, yes? Plans for the PostgreSQL Web Site (bring your wish list) -- Josh Berkus Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Anniversary Proposals -- Important Update
Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Hm, I already talked about that once: http://www.postgresql.org/files/developer/transactions.pdf but perhaps that's not the level of detail you are after? Yeah, I've read the presentation -- and yes, that's not the level I am after. Actually, I guess the completeness problem can be clarified with a table: a_complete_and_clear_division_of_transaction_time SatisfySnapShot Y Y N N ... SatisfyVacuum 1 2 2 3 ... Not sure how to give the corrctness proof -- maybe if the a_complete_and_clear_division_of_transaction_time is designed well enough, we can find some consistency? And as Alvaro suggested, maybe that's too narrow topic for a presentation -- so if the above idea is in the right track, I'd like to write an initial document (so you guys can modify it) if nobody is interested in doing that. Regards, Qingqing ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Anniversary Proposals -- Important Update
-Original Message- From: Josh Berkusjosh@agliodbs.com Sent: 18/03/06 01:55:04 To: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.orgpgsql-hackers@postgresql.org Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Anniversary Proposals -- Important Update Heck, if you have an idea for a talk you'd really, really, really like to see and can't give it, send it anyway. We may be able to find a speaker. I wouldn't mind talking (or hosting a discussion) but have been unable to think of anything that other hackers might be interested in. I obviously can't discuss the server internals in any great depth, but if anyone wants to hear about pgadmin, pginstaller, the web infrastructure or something else I've worked on, please let me know and I'll see if I can submit a proposal. -- Thanks to the tremendous generosity of Afilias, EnterpriseDB, Greenplum, and Pervasive (as well as SRA and OpenMFG), we will have the budget to help some speakers with travel funds. Many thanks to them. Regards, Dave -Unmodified Original Message- Folks, Wanted to update you on a few things regarding speaking at the upcoming PostgreSQL Anniversary Summit: -- There are only 13 days left to submit a proposal. Please do so. We'd rather not be forced into a last-minute rush to evaluate all of the stuff in April. Remember this is a family event so you don't have to have all of your materials together before you send something. Heck, if you have an idea for a talk you'd really, really, really like to see and can't give it, send it anyway. We may be able to find a speaker. -- Due to e-mail issues (not fixed) we lost some proposals without a trace. So if you submitted a proposal to us, and have not already received a response, please re-submit it! We might not have seen it. -- Thanks to the tremendous generosity of Afilias, EnterpriseDB, Greenplum, and Pervasive (as well as SRA and OpenMFG), we will have the budget to help some speakers with travel funds. So if you were holding off on a proposal because you weren't sure you could afford to fly to Toronto, please send one in. Proposals can be sent through http://conference.postgresql.org/Proposals/ or directly to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- --Josh Josh Berkus Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Anniversary Proposals -- Important Update
On Fri, 2006-03-17 at 22:03 -0500, Tom Lane wrote: Josh Berkus josh@agliodbs.com writes: -- There are only 13 days left to submit a proposal. Please do so. We'd rather not be forced into a last-minute rush to evaluate all of the stuff in April. Remember this is a family event so you don't have to have all of your materials together before you send something. Heck, if you have an idea for a talk you'd really, really, really like to see and can't give it, send it anyway. We may be able to find a speaker. Speaking of which, I've been trying to think of a talk proposal and am not coming up with anything that seems terribly sexy. I've talked a couple times about the planner and am afraid people would be bored by that again. I'd be willing to hold forth on almost any part of the backend system design (a bold claim, but with three months to prepare I figure I can back it up...). What would people like to hear about? This will, presumably, be a very PostgreSQL friendly group so a sales pitch isn't really required. How about the opposite? Tom Lanes list of areas that PostgreSQL does a poor job and a detailed explanation as to how that design decision or limitation came about as well as what can (or cannot) be done to fix it. I know there are a large number of items on your personal TODO and CANNOTDO lists that have either had very brief or no discussion in the mailing lists. Usage patterns that PostgreSQL simply does not handle well for not-so-obvious reasons and how to either work around those limitations as a user or changes that could be made to fix them. One example might be a 'self-aggregating' structure. Start with one entry per minute in a table indexed by time. After 2 weeks passes, the per-minute data is aggregated and the single entry at the start of the day is updated with the aggregate value with the other entries for the day being removed. I believe this can cause significant index bloat since it results in a few entries per page in the index. Using 2 structures via inheritance with one holding the per-minute data and one holding the per-day aggregates is much better. In short, tell us why the hammer of PostgreSQL makes a bad screw driver. -- ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Anniversary Proposals -- Important Update
Ühel kenal päeval, L, 2006-03-18 kell 12:38, kirjutas Rod Taylor: This will, presumably, be a very PostgreSQL friendly group so a sales pitch isn't really required. How about the opposite? Tom Lanes list of areas that PostgreSQL does a poor job and a detailed explanation as to how that design decision or limitation came about as well as what can (or cannot) be done to fix it. ... In short, tell us why the hammer of PostgreSQL makes a bad screw driver. Yup. My own ideas for a proposal have mostly revolved aroud topic Why postgresql sucks, and how to persuade the core to both understand the issues and accept solutions for fixing these. That means discussing areas where there is much room for improvement: 1) OLTP 2) 24/7 3) OLAP I have written code (mutually non-blocking vacuum) and proposals on lists (online index creation, archive tables) which would probably help a lot in each of these areas, once developers start believing that actual problems exist ;). And of course one will always want better introspaction into the backends. --- Hannu ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Anniversary Proposals -- Important Update
Qingqing Zhou wrote: I am really interested in the concurrency control part of the PostgreSQL. I can see the MVCC/lock rules there, and basically I can follow them -- but there are so many if-else in the rules, so the problem always for me is: how can we gaurantee that the rules are complete and correct? So I guess I may miss a big picture somewhere. Are you talking specifically about the stuff in tqual.c? If so, I agree that there doesn't seem to be enough description of how they work, much less formal proof that they are complete or correct. I don't know if it is enough material for a presentation though. -- Alvaro Herrerahttp://www.CommandPrompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
[HACKERS] PostgreSQL Anniversary Proposals -- Important Update
Folks, Wanted to update you on a few things regarding speaking at the upcoming PostgreSQL Anniversary Summit: -- There are only 13 days left to submit a proposal. Please do so. We'd rather not be forced into a last-minute rush to evaluate all of the stuff in April. Remember this is a family event so you don't have to have all of your materials together before you send something. Heck, if you have an idea for a talk you'd really, really, really like to see and can't give it, send it anyway. We may be able to find a speaker. -- Due to e-mail issues (not fixed) we lost some proposals without a trace. So if you submitted a proposal to us, and have not already received a response, please re-submit it! We might not have seen it. -- Thanks to the tremendous generosity of Afilias, EnterpriseDB, Greenplum, and Pervasive (as well as SRA and OpenMFG), we will have the budget to help some speakers with travel funds. So if you were holding off on a proposal because you weren't sure you could afford to fly to Toronto, please send one in. Proposals can be sent through http://conference.postgresql.org/Proposals/ or directly to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- --Josh Josh Berkus Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Anniversary Proposals -- Important Update
Josh Berkus josh@agliodbs.com writes: -- There are only 13 days left to submit a proposal. Please do so. We'd rather not be forced into a last-minute rush to evaluate all of the stuff in April. Remember this is a family event so you don't have to have all of your materials together before you send something. Heck, if you have an idea for a talk you'd really, really, really like to see and can't give it, send it anyway. We may be able to find a speaker. Speaking of which, I've been trying to think of a talk proposal and am not coming up with anything that seems terribly sexy. I've talked a couple times about the planner and am afraid people would be bored by that again. I'd be willing to hold forth on almost any part of the backend system design (a bold claim, but with three months to prepare I figure I can back it up...). What would people like to hear about? regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Anniversary Proposals -- Important Update
Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote What would people like to hear about? I am really interested in the concurrency control part of the PostgreSQL. I can see the MVCC/lock rules there, and basically I can follow them -- but there are so many if-else in the rules, so the problem always for me is: how can we gaurantee that the rules are complete and correct? So I guess I may miss a big picture somewhere. Regards, Qingqing ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL Anniversary Proposals -- Important Update
Qingqing Zhou [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote What would people like to hear about? I am really interested in the concurrency control part of the PostgreSQL. Hm, I already talked about that once: http://www.postgresql.org/files/developer/transactions.pdf but perhaps that's not the level of detail you are after? regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
