Re: [HACKERS] SSI implementation question
Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: I don't understand the SSI code well enough to tell if this is sufficient or not, so I hope you guys will take a closer look at the issue when you have time. I will definitely give it a look. Right now we have a perfect storm of time demands due to some recently-passed legislation combined with the need to wrap up some Annual Plan items. Within a few weeks I should find time for a more careful review and testing. -Kevin -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] SSI implementation question
Dan Ports d...@csail.mit.edu writes: On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 04:36:41PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: (2) as things stand, xact A need not be running in serializable mode --- if B is serializable, does *that* break any assumptions? [taking these in opposite order] Yes, I think that's going to be a problem. The obvious case where it's clearly not going to work is if A is older than the oldest active serializable xact (i.e. SxactGlobalXmin would have to move backwards). It's probably possible to make it work when that's not the case, but I think it's better to require A to be serializable -- if nothing else, it's a far simpler rule to document! There is another case that could be problematic, if A was READ ONLY, and B isn't. It sounds to me like that would also be a reasonable thing to forbid. I've committed the synchronized-snapshots patch with those two restrictions, ie, to import a snapshot into a serializable transaction (1) the source transaction must be serializable (and must still be running, of course); (2) you can't import a read-only transaction's snapshot into a read-write serializable transaction. I don't understand the SSI code well enough to tell if this is sufficient or not, so I hope you guys will take a closer look at the issue when you have time. regards, tom lane -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] SSI implementation question
Dan Ports wrote: I think it would be fairly sensible to push some of this into ProcArray, actually. The commit sequence numbers just involve assigning/incrementing a global counter when taking a snapshot and finishing a transaction -- that's not too much work, doesn't require any additional locking beyond ProcArrayLock, and isn't too tied to SSI. (I could imagine it being useful for other purposes, though I'm not going to make that argument too seriously without actually having one in mind.) So far it sounds like we're on the same page. SxactGlobalXmin and WritableSxactCount are obviously more SSI-specific, but I think we can come up with something reasonable to do with them. Agreed. The part that's harder is building the list of potential conflicts that's used to identify safe snapshots for r/o transactions. That (currently) has to happen atomically taking the snapshot. That's not obvious to me; could you elaborate on the reasons? If the commit sequence number is incremented under cover of an existing ProcArrayLock, and the current value is assigned to a snapshot under cover of same, acquiring SerializableXactHashLock after we get the snapshot seems to work for SxactGlobalXmin and WritableSxactCount, AFAICS. We'll probably have to do this in some significantly different way, but I haven't quite worked out what it is yet. Well, transaction startup needs some rearrangement, clearly. So far nothing fundamental has caught my attention beyond the commit sequence number changes. On the bright side, if we can address these three issues, we shouldn't need to take SerializableXactHashLock at all when starting a transaction. (Realistically, we might have to take it or some other lock shared to handle one of them -- but I really want starting a serializable xact to not take any exclusive locks.) Yeah, I don't see how we can avoid taking a LW lock to get a serializable transaction which needs a SERIALIZABLEXACT set up, but it might be possible and worthwhile to split the uses of SerializableXactHashLock so that it's not such a hotspot. -Kevin -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] SSI implementation question
On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 07:33:59AM -0500, Kevin Grittner wrote: Dan Ports wrote: The part that's harder is building the list of potential conflicts that's used to identify safe snapshots for r/o transactions. That (currently) has to happen atomically taking the snapshot. That's not obvious to me; could you elaborate on the reasons? If the commit sequence number is incremented under cover of an existing ProcArrayLock, and the current value is assigned to a snapshot under cover of same, acquiring SerializableXactHashLock after we get the snapshot seems to work for SxactGlobalXmin and WritableSxactCount, AFAICS. Well, whenever a r/w transaction commits or aborts, we need to check whether that caused any concurrent r/o transactions to have a known-safe or unsafe snapshot. The way that happens now is that, when a r/o transaction starts, it scans the list of r/w transactions and adds a pointer to itself in their sxact-possibleUnsafeConflicts. When one of them commits, it scans the list of possible conflicts and does the appropriate thing. That's not ideal because: - it requires modifing another transaction's sxact when registering a serializable transaction, so that means taking SerializableXactHashLock exclusive. - the set of concurrent transactions used to identify the possible conflicts needs to match the one used to build the snapshot. Otherwise, a transaction might commit between when the snapshot is take and when we find possible conflicts. (Holding SerializableXactHashLock prevents this.) Yeah, I don't see how we can avoid taking a LW lock to get a serializable transaction which needs a SERIALIZABLEXACT set up, but it might be possible and worthwhile to split the uses of SerializableXactHashLock so that it's not such a hotspot. Oh, right, one other problem is that the sxact free list is also protected by SerializableXactHashLock, so allocating from it requires locking. That one could be fixed by protecting it with its own lock, or (better yet) eventually moving to a lock-free implementation. In general, the contention problem is that SerializableXactHashLock basically protects all SSI state except the predicate locks themselves (notably, the dependency graph). This isn't partitioned at all, so looking at or modifying a single sxact requires locking the whole graph. I'd like to replace this with something finer-grained. Dan -- Dan R. K. Ports MIT CSAILhttp://drkp.net/ -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
[HACKERS] SSI implementation question
Is it really necessary for GetSerializableTransactionSnapshotInt to acquire an empty SERIALIZABLEXACT before it acquires a snapshot? If so, why? The proposed synchronized-snapshots feature will mean that the allegedly-new snapshot actually was taken some time before, so it seems to me that either this is not necessary or we cannot use a synchronized snapshot in a serializable xact. In the same vein, why is it necessary to be holding SerializableXactHashLock (exclusively, yet) while acquiring the snapshot? That seems rather bad from a concurrency standpoint, and again it's going to be pretty meaningless if we're just installing a pre-existing snapshot. The reason these things came to mind is that I want to refactor the code so that the SSI-specific work in GetSerializableTransactionSnapshotInt is done by a function that is handed an already-taken snapshot, because I cannot stomach what Joachim did to the APIs of GetSnapshotData and allied functions. But refactor or no refactor, it seems like installing a pre-existing snapshot may be breaking some assumptions here. regards, tom lane -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] SSI implementation question
Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: Is it really necessary for GetSerializableTransactionSnapshotInt to acquire an empty SERIALIZABLEXACT before it acquires a snapshot? If so, why? The proposed synchronized-snapshots feature will mean that the allegedly-new snapshot actually was taken some time before, so it seems to me that either this is not necessary or we cannot use a synchronized snapshot in a serializable xact. Hmm. If the intent is that each serializable transaction sharing the snapshot is a separate logical transaction, it *might* hold -- I have to think about that a bit. If the intent is that the work of one logical transaction is being split across processes, then SSI doesn't hold up without somehow tying all of the processes to a single SERIALIZABLEXACT; and then the direct access to MySerializableXact falls apart. In the same vein, why is it necessary to be holding SerializableXactHashLock (exclusively, yet) while acquiring the snapshot? That seems rather bad from a concurrency standpoint, and again it's going to be pretty meaningless if we're just installing a pre-existing snapshot. That seems like something which probably could and should be fixed, especially since SerializableXactHashLock can become a bottleneck in 9.1 and will be much more of a problem with the elimination of other bottlenecks in 9.2. The reason these things came to mind is that I want to refactor the code so that the SSI-specific work in GetSerializableTransactionSnapshotInt is done by a function that is handed an already-taken snapshot, because I cannot stomach what Joachim did to the APIs of GetSnapshotData and allied functions. But refactor or no refactor, it seems like installing a pre-existing snapshot may be breaking some assumptions here. I guess the other thing to look out for is whether it could possibly move PredXact-SxactGlobalXmin backwards. I would have to check for other possible problems. -Kevin -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] SSI implementation question
Kevin Grittner kevin.gritt...@wicourts.gov wrote: If the intent is that each serializable transaction sharing the snapshot is a separate logical transaction, it *might* hold -- I think the rules have to be that the snapshot provided to a serializable transaction must be provided by an active serializable transaction. That prevents the serializable global xmin from moving backwards; which is not allowed except during recovery processing of prepared transactions. Each transaction using the snapshot is a logically separate transaction -- they just have a shared view of the state of the data. If the intent is that the work of one logical transaction is being split across processes, then SSI doesn't hold up without somehow tying all of the processes to a single SERIALIZABLEXACT; and then the direct access to MySerializableXact falls apart. Except, as discussed on a separate, concurrent thread, that a READ ONLY transaction might find its snapshot to be safe -- at which point it no longer uses a SERIALIZABLEXACT. -Kevin -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] SSI implementation question
Kevin Grittner kevin.gritt...@wicourts.gov writes: Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: Is it really necessary for GetSerializableTransactionSnapshotInt to acquire an empty SERIALIZABLEXACT before it acquires a snapshot? If so, why? The proposed synchronized-snapshots feature will mean that the allegedly-new snapshot actually was taken some time before, so it seems to me that either this is not necessary or we cannot use a synchronized snapshot in a serializable xact. Hmm. If the intent is that each serializable transaction sharing the snapshot is a separate logical transaction, it *might* hold -- I have to think about that a bit. If the intent is that the work of one logical transaction is being split across processes, then SSI doesn't hold up without somehow tying all of the processes to a single SERIALIZABLEXACT; and then the direct access to MySerializableXact falls apart. No, the intention of the synchronized-snapshots feature is just to be able to start multiple transactions using exactly the same snapshot. They're independent after that. The aspect of it that is worrying me is that if xact A starts, gets a snapshot and publishes it, and then xact B starts and wants to adopt that snapshot, then (1) other transactions may have started or ended meanwhile; does that break any of SSI's assumptions? (2) as things stand, xact A need not be running in serializable mode --- if B is serializable, does *that* break any assumptions? We already have to have an interlock to ensure that GlobalXmin doesn't go backwards, by means of requiring A to still be running at the instant B adopts the snapshot and sets its MyProc-xmin accordingly. However, there is not currently anything that guarantees that A is still running by the time B does GetSerializableTransactionSnapshotInt, shortly later. So if your answer to question (1) involves an assumption that A is still running, we're going to have to figure out how to arrange that without deadlocking on ProcArrayLock vs SerializableXactHashLock. Which might be another good reason for changing predicate.c so that we don't hold the latter while taking a snapshot ... regards, tom lane -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] SSI implementation question
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 12:56:58PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: Is it really necessary for GetSerializableTransactionSnapshotInt to acquire an empty SERIALIZABLEXACT before it acquires a snapshot? If so, why? *That* isn't necessary, no. It is necessary, however, to acquire the snapshot while SerializableXactHashLock is held. There are a couple reasons for this: the sxact's lastCommitBeforeSnapshot needs to match the snapshot, SxactGlobalXmin needs to be set to the correct value, etc. That's why the call to GetSnapshotData happens from where it does The proposed synchronized-snapshots feature will mean that the allegedly-new snapshot actually was taken some time before, so it seems to me that either this is not necessary or we cannot use a synchronized snapshot in a serializable xact. There are definitely potential problems here. If the original snapshot doesn't belong to an active serializable transaction, we may have discarded the state we need to do SSI, e.g. we might have already cleaned up SIREAD locks from concurrent committed transactions. I assume the answer here is going to have to be to either refuse to start a serializable transaction if that's the case, or make saving a snapshot inhibit some of the SSI cleanup. In the same vein, why is it necessary to be holding SerializableXactHashLock (exclusively, yet) while acquiring the snapshot? That seems rather bad from a concurrency standpoint, and again it's going to be pretty meaningless if we're just installing a pre-existing snapshot. Yes, it's bad. I'm working on a design to address SerializableXactHashLock contention, but there needs to be some locking here for the reasons I mentioned above. I think the best we can do here is to acquire a lock in shared mode when registering a serializable transaction and in exclusive mode when committing. (Which is what you'd expect, I guess; it's the same story as ProcArrayLock, and for most of the same reasons.) Obviously, we'll also want to minimize the amount of work we're doing while holding that lock. Dan -- Dan R. K. Ports MIT CSAILhttp://drkp.net/ -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] SSI implementation question
Dan Ports d...@csail.mit.edu writes: On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 12:56:58PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: The proposed synchronized-snapshots feature will mean that the allegedly-new snapshot actually was taken some time before, so it seems to me that either this is not necessary or we cannot use a synchronized snapshot in a serializable xact. There are definitely potential problems here. If the original snapshot doesn't belong to an active serializable transaction, we may have discarded the state we need to do SSI, e.g. we might have already cleaned up SIREAD locks from concurrent committed transactions. I assume the answer here is going to have to be to either refuse to start a serializable transaction if that's the case, or make saving a snapshot inhibit some of the SSI cleanup. We can easily mark an exported snapshot with the IsoLevel of the transaction that made it, and then for example refuse to adopt a less-than-serializable snapshot into a serializable transaction. So that aspect can be had if we need it. But we still have a race condition with the patch as it stands, because there is a window for the original xact to terminate before GetSerializableTransactionSnapshotInt runs. It sounds like we have to fix that. In the same vein, why is it necessary to be holding SerializableXactHashLock (exclusively, yet) while acquiring the snapshot? That seems rather bad from a concurrency standpoint, and again it's going to be pretty meaningless if we're just installing a pre-existing snapshot. Yes, it's bad. I'm working on a design to address SerializableXactHashLock contention, but there needs to be some locking here for the reasons I mentioned above. I think the best we can do here is to acquire a lock in shared mode when registering a serializable transaction and in exclusive mode when committing. (Which is what you'd expect, I guess; it's the same story as ProcArrayLock, and for most of the same reasons.) Obviously, we'll also want to minimize the amount of work we're doing while holding that lock. I wonder whether it would be prudent to set the synchronized-snapshots patch aside until you've finished that work (assuming you're actively working on it). It's evidently going to require some nontrivial changes in predicate.c, and I don't think the feature should take precedence over SSI performance improvement. regards, tom lane -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] SSI implementation question
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 04:36:41PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: No, the intention of the synchronized-snapshots feature is just to be able to start multiple transactions using exactly the same snapshot. They're independent after that. The aspect of it that is worrying me is that if xact A starts, gets a snapshot and publishes it, and then xact B starts and wants to adopt that snapshot, then (2) as things stand, xact A need not be running in serializable mode --- if B is serializable, does *that* break any assumptions? [taking these in opposite order] Yes, I think that's going to be a problem. The obvious case where it's clearly not going to work is if A is older than the oldest active serializable xact (i.e. SxactGlobalXmin would have to move backwards). It's probably possible to make it work when that's not the case, but I think it's better to require A to be serializable -- if nothing else, it's a far simpler rule to document! There is another case that could be problematic, if A was READ ONLY, and B isn't. It sounds to me like that would also be a reasonable thing to forbid. (1) other transactions may have started or ended meanwhile; does that break any of SSI's assumptions? Mostly, no, if A is still running. There's one case that needs to be handled a bit carefully, but shouldn't be a problem: if A was SERIALIZABLE READ ONLY, and its snapshot was found to be safe, then it's actually running (safely) at REPEATABLE READ. If we start a new read-only transaction at the same snapshot, we need to make it run at REPEATABLE READ if it requests SERIALIZABLE. We already have to have an interlock to ensure that GlobalXmin doesn't go backwards, by means of requiring A to still be running at the instant B adopts the snapshot and sets its MyProc-xmin accordingly. However, there is not currently anything that guarantees that A is still running by the time B does GetSerializableTransactionSnapshotInt, shortly later. So if your answer to question (1) involves an assumption that A is still running, we're going to have to figure out how to arrange that without deadlocking on ProcArrayLock vs SerializableXactHashLock. Yep, I think we're going to have to do that. I haven't had a chance to look at the synchronized snapshots patch yet, so I can't (yet) offer any suggestions about how to implement it. Which might be another good reason for changing predicate.c so that we don't hold the latter while taking a snapshot ... It'd be great if we could do that, but I don't really see it being possible... Dan -- Dan R. K. Ports MIT CSAILhttp://drkp.net/ -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] SSI implementation question
Dan Ports d...@csail.mit.edu wrote: the sxact's lastCommitBeforeSnapshot needs to match the snapshot, SxactGlobalXmin needs to be set to the correct value, etc. That's why the call to GetSnapshotData happens from where it does Oh, right. I knew I was forgetting something. What if that was captured as part of building a snapshot? That seems like it would be a trivial cost compared to other snapshot-building activity, and might give us a way to get this out from under the SerializableXactHashLock locking. -Kevin -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] SSI implementation question
Kevin Grittner kevin.gritt...@wicourts.gov writes: Dan Ports d...@csail.mit.edu wrote: the sxact's lastCommitBeforeSnapshot needs to match the snapshot, SxactGlobalXmin needs to be set to the correct value, etc. That's why the call to GetSnapshotData happens from where it does Oh, right. I knew I was forgetting something. What if that was captured as part of building a snapshot? That seems like it would be a trivial cost compared to other snapshot-building activity, and might give us a way to get this out from under the SerializableXactHashLock locking. But aren't the values you need to fetch protected by SerializableXactHashLock? Having to take an additional LWLock is *not* a trivial cost. regards, tom lane -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] SSI implementation question
Tom Lane t...@sss.pgh.pa.us wrote: Kevin Grittner kevin.gritt...@wicourts.gov writes: Dan Ports d...@csail.mit.edu wrote: the sxact's lastCommitBeforeSnapshot needs to match the snapshot, SxactGlobalXmin needs to be set to the correct value, etc. That's why the call to GetSnapshotData happens from where it does Oh, right. I knew I was forgetting something. What if that was captured as part of building a snapshot? That seems like it would be a trivial cost compared to other snapshot-building activity, and might give us a way to get this out from under the SerializableXactHashLock locking. But aren't the values you need to fetch protected by SerializableXactHashLock? Having to take an additional LWLock is *not* a trivial cost. I was thinking that this would become a more general commit sequence number and could be bundled into the snapshot. It would also allow cleaning up the funny double-increment we did as a workaround for this not being incremented at the actual moment of commit. There was actually a patch floated to do it that way near the end of the 9.1 development cycle. I imagine that's probably suffered major bitrot because of Robert's 9.2 work, but the general idea is the same. I agree that if it can't fit under existing locks at commit and snapshot build times, it isn't feasible. -Kevin -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] SSI implementation question
On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 05:04:52PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: I wonder whether it would be prudent to set the synchronized-snapshots patch aside until you've finished that work (assuming you're actively working on it). It's evidently going to require some nontrivial changes in predicate.c, and I don't think the feature should take precedence over SSI performance improvement. I wouldn't hold the patch up on my account. Improving the SSI locking situation looks to be a fairly substantial project. I've been drawing up a plan to fix it, but I'm also travelling for most of the next two weeks and probably won't be able to do any serious hacking on it until I'm back to the office. Dan -- Dan R. K. Ports MIT CSAILhttp://drkp.net/ -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
Re: [HACKERS] SSI implementation question
I think it would be fairly sensible to push some of this into ProcArray, actually. The commit sequence numbers just involve assigning/ incrementing a global counter when taking a snapshot and finishing a transaction -- that's not too much work, doesn't require any additional locking beyond ProcArrayLock, and isn't too tied to SSI. (I could imagine it being useful for other purposes, though I'm not going to make that argument too seriously without actually having one in mind.) SxactGlobalXmin and WritableSxactCount are obviously more SSI-specific, but I think we can come up with something reasonable to do with them. The part that's harder is building the list of potential conflicts that's used to identify safe snapshots for r/o transactions. That (currently) has to happen atomically taking the snapshot. We'll probably have to do this in some significantly different way, but I haven't quite worked out what it is yet. On the bright side, if we can address these three issues, we shouldn't need to take SerializableXactHashLock at all when starting a transaction. (Realistically, we might have to take it or some other lock shared to handle one of them -- but I really want starting a serializable xact to not take any exclusive locks.) Dan -- Dan R. K. Ports MIT CSAILhttp://drkp.net/ -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-hackers
