Re: [PERFORM] Need help with 8.4 Performance Testing
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 1:11 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: >> Those intel SSDs sound compelling. I've been waiting for SSDs to get >> competitive price and performance wise for a while, and when the >> intels came out and I read the first benchmarks I immediately began >> scheming. Sadly, that was right after we're ordered our new 16 drive >> servers, and I didn't have time to try something new and hope it would >> work. Now that the servers are up and running, we'll probably look at >> adding the SSDs next summer before our high load period begins. > > The idea of SSDs is interesting. However I think I will wait for all the > other early adopters to figure out the problems before I start > suggesting them to clients. > > Hard drives work, their cheap and fast. I can get 25 spindles, 15k in a > 3U with controller and battery backed cache for <$10k. This may be a little off-topic, but I'd be interested in hearing more details about how you (or others) would do this... manufacturer, model, configuration? How many hard drives do you need to get 25 spindles? And where can you get that many 15K hard drives for under $10K? My lack of experience in this area is showing here, but, seriously, any suggestions appreciated. ...Robert -- Sent via pgsql-performance mailing list (pgsql-performance@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-performance
Re: [PERFORM] Need help with 8.4 Performance Testing
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008, Robert Haas wrote: On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 1:11 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: Those intel SSDs sound compelling. I've been waiting for SSDs to get competitive price and performance wise for a while, and when the intels came out and I read the first benchmarks I immediately began scheming. Sadly, that was right after we're ordered our new 16 drive servers, and I didn't have time to try something new and hope it would work. Now that the servers are up and running, we'll probably look at adding the SSDs next summer before our high load period begins. The idea of SSDs is interesting. However I think I will wait for all the other early adopters to figure out the problems before I start suggesting them to clients. Hard drives work, their cheap and fast. I can get 25 spindles, 15k in a 3U with controller and battery backed cache for <$10k. This may be a little off-topic, but I'd be interested in hearing more details about how you (or others) would do this... manufacturer, model, configuration? How many hard drives do you need to get 25 spindles? And where can you get that many 15K hard drives for under $10K? My lack of experience in this area is showing here, but, seriously, any suggestions appreciated. 1 spindle == 1 hard drive David Lang -- Sent via pgsql-performance mailing list (pgsql-performance@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-performance
Re: [PERFORM] Need help with 8.4 Performance Testing
On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 6:22 AM, Robert Haas wrote: > On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 1:11 PM, Joshua D. Drake > wrote: >>> Those intel SSDs sound compelling. I've been waiting for SSDs to get >>> competitive price and performance wise for a while, and when the >>> intels came out and I read the first benchmarks I immediately began >>> scheming. Sadly, that was right after we're ordered our new 16 drive >>> servers, and I didn't have time to try something new and hope it would >>> work. Now that the servers are up and running, we'll probably look at >>> adding the SSDs next summer before our high load period begins. >> >> The idea of SSDs is interesting. However I think I will wait for all the >> other early adopters to figure out the problems before I start >> suggesting them to clients. >> >> Hard drives work, their cheap and fast. I can get 25 spindles, 15k in a >> 3U with controller and battery backed cache for <$10k. > > This may be a little off-topic, but I'd be interested in hearing more > details about how you (or others) would do this... manufacturer, > model, configuration? How many hard drives do you need to get 25 > spindles? And where can you get that many 15K hard drives for under > $10K? My lack of experience in this area is showing here, but, > seriously, any suggestions appreciated. I don't know about fitting in a 3U, but you can get a 24 15k 73G SAS drive machine with 8 gig ram and a single quad core CPU from aberdeeninc.com for $10,055.00. -- Sent via pgsql-performance mailing list (pgsql-performance@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-performance
Re: [PERFORM] Need help with 8.4 Performance Testing
On Sat, 2008-12-13 at 07:44 -0800, da...@lang.hm wrote: > On Sat, 13 Dec 2008, Robert Haas wrote: > > This may be a little off-topic, but I'd be interested in hearing more > > details about how you (or others) would do this... manufacturer, > > model, configuration? How many hard drives do you need to get 25 > > spindles? And where can you get that many 15K hard drives for under > > $10K? My lack of experience in this area is showing here, but, > > seriously, any suggestions appreciated. > http://h71016.www7.hp.com/ctoBases.asp?oi=E9CED&BEID=19701&SBLID=&ProductLineId=450&FamilyId=2570&LowBaseId=15222&LowPrice=$1,899.00&familyviewgroup=757&viewtype=Matrix Retail cost, 15k, 36GB drives, ~ 12k. A phone call and threat of buying dell gets its for ~ 10k. Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL Consulting, Development, Support, Training 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997 -- Sent via pgsql-performance mailing list (pgsql-performance@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-performance
Re: [PERFORM] Need help with 8.4 Performance Testing
On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On Sat, 2008-12-13 at 07:44 -0800, da...@lang.hm wrote: >> On Sat, 13 Dec 2008, Robert Haas wrote: > >> > This may be a little off-topic, but I'd be interested in hearing more >> > details about how you (or others) would do this... manufacturer, >> > model, configuration? How many hard drives do you need to get 25 >> > spindles? And where can you get that many 15K hard drives for under >> > $10K? My lack of experience in this area is showing here, but, >> > seriously, any suggestions appreciated. >> > > http://h71016.www7.hp.com/ctoBases.asp?oi=E9CED&BEID=19701&SBLID=&ProductLineId=450&FamilyId=2570&LowBaseId=15222&LowPrice=$1,899.00&familyviewgroup=757&viewtype=Matrix > > Retail cost, 15k, 36GB drives, ~ 12k. A phone call and threat of buying > dell gets its for ~ 10k. I prefer to deal with companies that I don't have to horse trade with to get a good deal. You can threaten dell and get good deals, but if you're not watching, and let your boss handle an order suddenly you've got an $800 Perc 5e on your hands. -- Sent via pgsql-performance mailing list (pgsql-performance@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-performance
Re: [PERFORM] Need help with 8.4 Performance Testing
On Sat, 2008-12-13 at 12:45 -0700, Scott Marlowe wrote: > On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Joshua D. Drake > wrote: > > On Sat, 2008-12-13 at 07:44 -0800, da...@lang.hm wrote: > >> On Sat, 13 Dec 2008, Robert Haas wrote: > > http://h71016.www7.hp.com/ctoBases.asp?oi=E9CED&BEID=19701&SBLID=&ProductLineId=450&FamilyId=2570&LowBaseId=15222&LowPrice=$1,899.00&familyviewgroup=757&viewtype=Matrix > > > > Retail cost, 15k, 36GB drives, ~ 12k. A phone call and threat of buying > > dell gets its for ~ 10k. > > I prefer to deal with companies that I don't have to horse trade with > to get a good deal. You can threaten dell and get good deals, but if And what company would that be? There is zero major server manufacturer that doesn't do the, "Oh you have a competitive bid... let's just lower that quote for you" Note: HP can beat Dell, every time on an apples to apples quote. At least when I have done it. Joshua D. Drake > -- PostgreSQL Consulting, Development, Support, Training 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997 -- Sent via pgsql-performance mailing list (pgsql-performance@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-performance
Re: [PERFORM] Need help with 8.4 Performance Testing
On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On Sat, 2008-12-13 at 12:45 -0700, Scott Marlowe wrote: >> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Joshua D. Drake >> wrote: >> > On Sat, 2008-12-13 at 07:44 -0800, da...@lang.hm wrote: >> >> On Sat, 13 Dec 2008, Robert Haas wrote: > >> > http://h71016.www7.hp.com/ctoBases.asp?oi=E9CED&BEID=19701&SBLID=&ProductLineId=450&FamilyId=2570&LowBaseId=15222&LowPrice=$1,899.00&familyviewgroup=757&viewtype=Matrix >> > >> > Retail cost, 15k, 36GB drives, ~ 12k. A phone call and threat of buying >> > dell gets its for ~ 10k. >> >> I prefer to deal with companies that I don't have to horse trade with >> to get a good deal. You can threaten dell and get good deals, but if > > And what company would that be? There is zero major server manufacturer > that doesn't do the, "Oh you have a competitive bid... let's just lower > that quote for you" > > Note: HP can beat Dell, every time on an apples to apples quote. At > least when I have done it. Aberdeen inc, the one I listed in my previous response. Their on site price for a single quad core xeon, 8 gig 800MHZ ram and 24 15k5 SAS drives is $10,080 or so. I've never had to tell them I was getting a better price anywhere else. They just give me a great quote each time, they have very fast and efficient customer service, and they give a 5 year warranty on everything they custom build for you. I'm a very satisfied customer. BTW, they seem to have saved a fair bit of money and passed the savings along to you and me, by designing their website in one whole afternoon. :) Yeah, it's ugly, but it works well enough to get an idea what you want and then ask for a quote. We got our 8 core opteron 32 Gig ram areca 1680i and 16 15k4 Seagates for $11,000 or so at the end of summer. When we first plugged them in, one machine started hanging after 24-48 hours of steady load testing. CAlled them, they said it sounded like a RAID card and they'd ship me a new one next day business. Let me make it clear, I didn't tell them I thought it was the RAID card, or that I needed it the next day, they decided that's what it sounded like, and they shipped it to me, FOC. Arrived the next business day. Which was a monday. Between friday and monday I swapped the RAID controllers between the two machines, and after 36 hours of testing, the problem followed the RAID controller and the other machine locked up. Got the new controller, put it in and ran a week long test, no failures. We have since had one drive fail (each machine has two hot spares) and they cross shipped the replacement and we got it in 3 days. Few places have made me so happy with a decision to spend $22k on servers as these guys have. -- Sent via pgsql-performance mailing list (pgsql-performance@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-performance
Re: [PERFORM] Need help with 8.4 Performance Testing
On Sat, 2008-12-13 at 12:57 -0700, Scott Marlowe wrote: > On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Joshua D. Drake > wrote: > > On Sat, 2008-12-13 at 12:45 -0700, Scott Marlowe wrote: > >> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Joshua D. Drake > >> wrote: > >> > On Sat, 2008-12-13 at 07:44 -0800, da...@lang.hm wrote: > >> >> On Sat, 13 Dec 2008, Robert Haas wrote: > > Note: HP can beat Dell, every time on an apples to apples quote. At > > least when I have done it. > > Aberdeen inc, the one I listed in my previous response. Sorry didn't see it. > Their on site > price for a single quad core xeon, 8 gig 800MHZ ram and 24 15k5 SAS > drives is $10,080 or so. I've never had to tell them I was getting a > better price anywhere else. They just give me a great quote each > time, they have very fast and efficient customer service, and they > give a 5 year warranty on everything they custom build for you. I'm a > very satisfied customer. Well that would work for CMD but CMDs customer's would say, "Who the heck is Aberdeen?" > Few places have made me so happy with a decision to spend $22k on > servers as these guys have. > Well that is definitely a solid testimony. I don't have any experience with them but I know that the smaller companies always provide better service so I have no reason to doubt you. The larger the company gets the harder it is to get through the muck of bureaucracy. I have to be honest though, unless the customer explicitly states we don't have a problem with white box, its going to be HP, DELL or IBM, occasionally SUN but once they see how ridiculous the initial quotes from Sun are they generally don't want to deal with them anymore. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL Consulting, Development, Support, Training 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997 -- Sent via pgsql-performance mailing list (pgsql-performance@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-performance
Re: [PERFORM] Need help with 8.4 Performance Testing
El Sábado, 13 de Diciembre de 2008 Scott Marlowe escribió: > On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Joshua D. Drake > wrote: > > On Sat, 2008-12-13 at 07:44 -0800, da...@lang.hm wrote: > >> On Sat, 13 Dec 2008, Robert Haas wrote: > > > >> > This may be a little off-topic, but I'd be interested in hearing more > >> > details about how you (or others) would do this... manufacturer, > >> > model, configuration? How many hard drives do you need to get 25 > >> > spindles? And where can you get that many 15K hard drives for under > >> > $10K? My lack of experience in this area is showing here, but, > >> > seriously, any suggestions appreciated. > >> > > > > http://h71016.www7.hp.com/ctoBases.asp?oi=E9CED&BEID=19701&SBLID=&ProductLineId=450&FamilyId=2570&LowBaseId=15222&LowPrice=$1,899.00&familyviewgroup=757&viewtype=Matrix > > > > Retail cost, 15k, 36GB drives, ~ 12k. A phone call and threat of buying > > dell gets its for ~ 10k. > > I prefer to deal with companies that I don't have to horse trade with > to get a good deal. You can threaten dell and get good deals, but if > you're not watching, and let your boss handle an order suddenly you've > got an $800 Perc 5e on your hands. > are Perc 5 bad cards? is that for being sata? And what about perc 4 ? they are scsi Thanks in advance -- No imprima este correo si no es necesario, necesitará el dinero del papel para pagar las charlas del señor Gore. ->>--- Clist UAH a.k.a Angel -[www.uah.es]-<<-- "Los politicos y los pañales han de cambiarse cada cierto tiempo." -- Sent via pgsql-performance mailing list (pgsql-performance@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-performance
Re: [PERFORM] Need help with 8.4 Performance Testing
On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On Sat, 2008-12-13 at 12:57 -0700, Scott Marlowe wrote: >> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Joshua D. Drake >> wrote: >> > On Sat, 2008-12-13 at 12:45 -0700, Scott Marlowe wrote: >> >> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 11:37 AM, Joshua D. Drake >> >> wrote: >> >> > On Sat, 2008-12-13 at 07:44 -0800, da...@lang.hm wrote: >> >> >> On Sat, 13 Dec 2008, Robert Haas wrote: > >> > Note: HP can beat Dell, every time on an apples to apples quote. At >> > least when I have done it. >> >> Aberdeen inc, the one I listed in my previous response. > > Sorry didn't see it. > >> Their on site >> price for a single quad core xeon, 8 gig 800MHZ ram and 24 15k5 SAS >> drives is $10,080 or so. I've never had to tell them I was getting a >> better price anywhere else. They just give me a great quote each >> time, they have very fast and efficient customer service, and they >> give a 5 year warranty on everything they custom build for you. I'm a >> very satisfied customer. > > Well that would work for CMD but CMDs customer's would say, "Who the > heck is Aberdeen?" For me, it's the company I recommend. Here's the point I make. If there's any problem, whatsoever, with aberdeen equipment when I'm putting it in, I'll come fix it and interface. If you pick someone else, YOU get to interface and replace parts, I'm not doing it. Their time versus my time. The same is true with anything else I that I recommend. >> Few places have made me so happy with a decision to spend $22k on >> servers as these guys have. > > Well that is definitely a solid testimony. I don't have any experience > with them but I know that the smaller companies always provide better > service so I have no reason to doubt you. The larger the company gets > the harder it is to get through the muck of bureaucracy. > > I have to be honest though, unless the customer explicitly states we > don't have a problem with white box, its going to be HP, DELL or IBM, > occasionally SUN but once they see how ridiculous the initial quotes > from Sun are they generally don't want to deal with them anymore. I've made it quite clear to bosses in the past that if they stick me with dud hardware (i.e. dell 2650s with adaptec RAID controllers, et. al.) that I will not be handling the long, drudging fight with the vendor. I'll just sell it on ebay if it won't work and we'll order what I said the first time. One or two times of that happening and they don't second guess me much anymore. My current boss is much more progressive, and while he had his doubts, he too is now sold. Isn't it amazing how many small businesses won't buy from other small businesses? They'd much rather give their money to a company they don't like because "they'll be around a while" (the big company). -- Sent via pgsql-performance mailing list (pgsql-performance@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-performance
Re: [PERFORM] Need help with 8.4 Performance Testing
On Sat, 2008-12-13 at 19:16 -0700, Scott Marlowe wrote: > Isn't it amazing how many small businesses won't buy from other small > businesses? They'd much rather give their money to a company they > don't like because "they'll be around a while" (the big company). > True enough! Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL Consulting, Development, Support, Training 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997 -- Sent via pgsql-performance mailing list (pgsql-performance@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-performance
Re: [PERFORM] Need help with 8.4 Performance Testing
"Scott Marlowe" writes: > Isn't it amazing how many small businesses won't buy from other small > businesses? It's entertaining that Dell is considered one of the "safe choices" in this thread. They were a pretty small business not so long ago (and remain a lot smaller than IBM or HP) ... regards, tom lane -- Sent via pgsql-performance mailing list (pgsql-performance@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-performance
