Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo4pharo mailing-list announce

[ducasse]

Hi benoit

I’m abrupt and I know it and I did it conciously. Of course we can let it go 
and add more filters to trash 
emails or refuse :) 

I suggested to the board to create a list Pharo-chat where people can chat if 
they need and i will not be in the mailing-list. 
And that we focus pharo-users around pharo. 
I care that we can discuss about pharo and help people around.
 
People may ask themselves why few people from the core team reply to emails in 
the users mailing-list?
To me this important to have a medium where excellent and busy people can take 
from their time
to help and welcome community and newcomers and exchange on added value for 
pharo users. 

S. 



> On 30 Jan 2020, at 19:56, Benoit St-Jean  wrote:
> 
> Nobody said we were against such a mailing list! But, just as you, there are 
> topics I skip on the mailing list. No harm done, quick & easy to do! 
> 
> But one should never refrain from talking about other Smalltalk environments 
> on a Smalltalk/Pharo list : if VisualAge, or VisualWorks, or Dolphin, or 
> Squeak, or ObjectStudio, or VSE or any other Smalltalk can inspire us to make 
> Pharo better, I don't think that saying "Dolphin really has a great look & 
> feel for Windows app" is equivalent to saying "VisualWorks sucks" or "Pharo 
> is crap" ! I could talk for hours at what those Smalltalk products rock.  I 
> could also talk for hours at what those Smalltalk products suck. I could talk 
> for hours about why product X is better that product Y for job Z.  That 
> doesn't mean one product is crap and the other one is perfect! Every 
> Smalltalk product has strengths and weaknesses.  Why shouldn't we be inspired 
> by great features of other products that Pharo doesn't yet have?  Criticism 
> of Pharo (or praise of other products) doesn't mean we hate or despise Pharo! 
>  It just means that we care. And that we can make it better!
> 
> Also, inevitably you'll have non-Pharo & non-Smalltalk related topics 
> sometimes popping up on the mailing list. Am I interested by digital image 
> formats? Nope.  So if I see a thread about someone who wants to develop a 
> library to read the FITS format (Flexible Image Transport System, used in 
> astronomy mainly), chances are we'll see posts about astronomy & FITS for 2-3 
> days. I don't mind since, in the end, it still is Smalltalk-related!
> 
> On the topic of "Why is [insert your favorite non-Smalltalk programming 
> language here] better than Smalltalk/Pharo?", I gave up that kind of 
> discussion years ago... And on the rare occasions when I have it, I have it 
> in private.  You'll always find a moron who thinks GW-BASIC + DOS 4.1 + dBase 
> is the way to go.  I don't waste time with those people anymore! lol 
> 
> On 2020-01-30 07:40, ducasse wrote:
>> You see this is several times that I gently ask if we can move on. 
>> And regularly we get the same. 
>> 
>> So I can also live pharo-dev. 
>> At the end of the day we cannot have the cake and eat it too. 
>> 
>> So you can consider that I’m an asshole. I’m probably that.
>> Now I’m super super fedup to have to jump over some thread. 
>> I quit newsgroups in the past because of that. I quit Pharo-users because of 
>> that. 
>> 
>> When I want to read about X Z Y and this is not related to Pharo then I 
>> google the Web. 
>> 
>> S. 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 30 Jan 2020, at 12:05, Benoit St-Jean >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Benoit St-Jean mailto:bstj...@yahoo.com>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo4pharo mailing-list announce
>>> Date: 30 January 2020 at 12:05:38 CET
>>> To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Wow!  
>>> 
>>> That post on Pharo Weekly ( 
>>> https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2020/01/30/ann-pharo-4-pharo-mailing-list/
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  ) really sets a great welcoming ambiance for any newcomer interested by 
>>> Pharo who'll read that or who'll stumble on it by accident while googling 
>>> "Pharo+mailing+list" !
>>> 
>>> #Not #Fail #WorstAdvertisingEver
>>> 
>>> Please, take 30 seconds to remove that crap before too many people read 
>>> it...
>>> 
>>> P.S. it's one thing to express yourself like that on a mailing list, it's 
>>> another one to put it upfront on a blog...
>>> 
>>> On 2020-01-30 02:33, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
 Hi
 
 Tired of boring and dull discussions about the past?
 Tired and bored about the fact that the discussions are not about Pharo 
 but about X, Z, K?
 Want to get in touch with other real pharo users?
 Want to have positive and nice discussions about Pharo?
 
 This mailing-list is for you
 
https://lists.gforge.inria.fr/mailman/listinfo/lse-pharo4pharo 
 
 
 I created a new mailing-list for Pharo 4 Pharo. 
 The idea of this new mailing-list is to exchange between Pharo users on 

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo4pharo mailing-list announce

[Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-dev]

--- Begin Message ---
Nobody said we were against such a mailing list! But, just as you, there 
are topics I skip on the mailing list. No harm done, quick & easy to do!


But one should never refrain from talking about other Smalltalk 
environments on a Smalltalk/Pharo list : if VisualAge, or VisualWorks, 
or Dolphin, or Squeak, or ObjectStudio, or VSE or any other Smalltalk 
can inspire us to make Pharo better, I don't think that saying "Dolphin 
really has a great look & feel for Windows app" is equivalent to saying 
"VisualWorks sucks" or "Pharo is crap" ! I could talk for hours at what 
those Smalltalk products rock.  I could also talk for hours at what 
those Smalltalk products suck. I could talk for hours about why product 
X is better that product Y for job Z.  That doesn't mean one product is 
crap and the other one is perfect! Every Smalltalk product has strengths 
and weaknesses.  Why shouldn't we be inspired by great features of other 
products that Pharo doesn't yet have?  Criticism of Pharo (or praise of 
other products) doesn't mean we hate or despise Pharo!  It just means 
that we care. And that we can make it better!


Also, inevitably you'll have non-Pharo & non-Smalltalk related topics 
sometimes popping up on the mailing list. Am I interested by digital 
image formats? Nope.  So if I see a thread about someone who wants to 
develop a library to read the FITS format (Flexible Image Transport 
System, used in astronomy mainly), chances are we'll see posts about 
astronomy & FITS for 2-3 days. I don't mind since, in the end, it still 
is Smalltalk-related!


On the topic of "Why is [insert your favorite non-Smalltalk programming 
language here] better than Smalltalk/Pharo?", I gave up that kind of 
discussion years ago... And on the rare occasions when I have it, I have 
it in private.  You'll always find a moron who thinks GW-BASIC + DOS 4.1 
+ dBase is the way to go.  I don't waste time with those people anymore! 
lol


On 2020-01-30 07:40, ducasse wrote:

You see this is several times that I gently ask if we can move on.
And regularly we get the same.

So I can also live pharo-dev.
At the end of the day we cannot have the cake and eat it too.

So you can consider that I’m an asshole. I’m probably that.
Now I’m super super fedup to have to jump over some thread.
I quit newsgroups in the past because of that. I quit Pharo-users 
because of that.


When I want to read about X Z Y and this is not related to Pharo then 
I google the Web.


S.


On 30 Jan 2020, at 12:05, Benoit St-Jean > wrote:



*From: *Benoit St-Jean mailto:bstj...@yahoo.com>>
*Subject: **Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo4pharo mailing-list announce*
*Date: *30 January 2020 at 12:05:38 CET
*To: *pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org 


Wow!

That post on Pharo Weekly ( 
https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2020/01/30/ann-pharo-4-pharo-mailing-list/ 
) really sets a great welcoming ambiance for any newcomer interested 
by Pharo who'll read that or who'll stumble on it by accident while 
googling "Pharo+mailing+list" !


#Not #Fail #WorstAdvertisingEver

Please, take 30 seconds to remove that crap before too many people 
read it...


P.S. it's one thing to express yourself like that on a mailing list, 
it's another one to put it upfront on a blog...


On 2020-01-30 02:33, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:

Hi

Tired of boring and dull discussions about the past?
Tired and bored about the fact that the discussions are not about 
Pharo but about X, Z, K?

Want to get in touch with other real pharo users?
Want to have positive and nice discussions about Pharo?

This mailing-list is for you

https://lists.gforge.inria.fr/mailman/listinfo/lse-pharo4pharo

I created a new mailing-list for Pharo 4 Pharo.
The idea of this new mailing-list is to exchange between Pharo users 
on Pharo.


If you want to talk about the weather and other cool fishing 
practices or how other languages are super cool,

then you should use another mailing-list.

You can consider that I’m
[ ]  an asshole
[ ]  an arrogant idiot
[ ]  other
This is not my concern.

My concern is: can we respect Pharo and users of Pharo that want to 
share what they are doing

and ask questions about their language?

If you join this mailing-list be warned that I (yes me the 
benevolent dictator of Pharo) will remove you from the mailing-list

when you get on my nerves.

If you do not like it, do not like me, do not appreciate it, do not 
join!


S.

BTW they are plenty of newsgroups about Smalltalk and you can join 
there.




Stéphane Ducasse
http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr  / 
http://www.pharo.org 

03 59 35 87 52
Assistant: Julie Jonas
FAX 03 59 57 78 50
TEL 03 59 35 86 16
S. Ducasse - Inria
40, avenue Halley,
Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza
Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650
France


--
-
Benoît St-Jean
Yahoo! Messenger: 

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo4pharo mailing-list announce

[ducasse]

Hi esteban

> What would be the difference with the Pharo-Users mailing list?

A mailing-list where we do not talk about 
- how smalltalk was cool
- other languages
- strange polls
A mailing-list about Pharo for Pharo users.
where we can talk and answers questions about Pharo and its business and 
ecosystem. 

There are plenty of super cool smalltalk newsgroups. Why not registering there?

Now we have to jump over all kind of discussions that have nothing to do about 
Pharo. 
And I’m not in anymore. 
It still does not mean that newbies and none core-dev pharo people has to 
suffer this **plague**

There is no need to remember new people in permanence that Smalltalk is a 
friend of Cobol. 

If we want busy people to help, we should stop forcing them to jump over and 
filter irrelevant mails. 

S.

> Esteban A. Maringolo
> 
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 4:34 AM Stéphane Ducasse
>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> Tired of boring and dull discussions about the past?
>> Tired and bored about the fact that the discussions are not about Pharo but 
>> about X, Z, K?
>> Want to get in touch with other real pharo users?
>> Want to have positive and nice discussions about Pharo?
>> 
>> This mailing-list is for you
>> 
>> https://lists.gforge.inria.fr/mailman/listinfo/lse-pharo4pharo
>> 
>> I created a new mailing-list for Pharo 4 Pharo.
>> The idea of this new mailing-list is to exchange between Pharo users on 
>> Pharo.
>> 
>> If you want to talk about the weather and other cool fishing practices or 
>> how other languages are super cool,
>> then you should use another mailing-list.
>> 
>> You can consider that I’m
>> [ ]  an asshole
>> [ ]  an arrogant idiot
>> [ ]  other
>> This is not my concern.
>> 
>> My concern is: can we respect Pharo and users of Pharo that want to share 
>> what they are doing
>> and ask questions about their language?
>> 
>> If you join this mailing-list be warned that I (yes me the benevolent 
>> dictator of Pharo) will remove you from the mailing-list
>> when you get on my nerves.
>> 
>> If you do not like it, do not like me, do not appreciate it, do not join!
>> 
>> S.
>> 
>> BTW they are plenty of newsgroups about Smalltalk and you can join there.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Stéphane Ducasse
>> http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org
>> 03 59 35 87 52
>> Assistant: Julie Jonas
>> FAX 03 59 57 78 50
>> TEL 03 59 35 86 16
>> S. Ducasse - Inria
>> 40, avenue Halley,
>> Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza
>> Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650
>> France
>> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo4pharo mailing-list announce

[Esteban Maringolo]

What would be the difference with the Pharo-Users mailing list?

Esteban A. Maringolo

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 4:34 AM Stéphane Ducasse
 wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> Tired of boring and dull discussions about the past?
> Tired and bored about the fact that the discussions are not about Pharo but 
> about X, Z, K?
> Want to get in touch with other real pharo users?
> Want to have positive and nice discussions about Pharo?
>
> This mailing-list is for you
>
> https://lists.gforge.inria.fr/mailman/listinfo/lse-pharo4pharo
>
> I created a new mailing-list for Pharo 4 Pharo.
> The idea of this new mailing-list is to exchange between Pharo users on Pharo.
>
> If you want to talk about the weather and other cool fishing practices or how 
> other languages are super cool,
> then you should use another mailing-list.
>
> You can consider that I’m
> [ ]  an asshole
> [ ]  an arrogant idiot
> [ ]  other
> This is not my concern.
>
> My concern is: can we respect Pharo and users of Pharo that want to share 
> what they are doing
> and ask questions about their language?
>
> If you join this mailing-list be warned that I (yes me the benevolent 
> dictator of Pharo) will remove you from the mailing-list
> when you get on my nerves.
>
> If you do not like it, do not like me, do not appreciate it, do not join!
>
> S.
>
> BTW they are plenty of newsgroups about Smalltalk and you can join there.
>
>
> 
> Stéphane Ducasse
> http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org
> 03 59 35 87 52
> Assistant: Julie Jonas
> FAX 03 59 57 78 50
> TEL 03 59 35 86 16
> S. Ducasse - Inria
> 40, avenue Halley,
> Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza
> Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650
> France
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo4pharo mailing-list announce

[ducasse]

You see this is several times that I gently ask if we can move on. 
And regularly we get the same. 

So I can also live pharo-dev. 
At the end of the day we cannot have the cake and eat it too. 

So you can consider that I’m an asshole. I’m probably that.
Now I’m super super fedup to have to jump over some thread. 
I quit newsgroups in the past because of that. I quit Pharo-users because of 
that. 

When I want to read about X Z Y and this is not related to Pharo then I google 
the Web. 

S. 


> On 30 Jan 2020, at 12:05, Benoit St-Jean  wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Benoit St-Jean 
> Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo4pharo mailing-list announce
> Date: 30 January 2020 at 12:05:38 CET
> To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org
> 
> 
> Wow!  
> 
> That post on Pharo Weekly ( 
> https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2020/01/30/ann-pharo-4-pharo-mailing-list/ 
> 
>  ) really sets a great welcoming ambiance for any newcomer interested by 
> Pharo who'll read that or who'll stumble on it by accident while googling 
> "Pharo+mailing+list" !
> 
> #Not #Fail #WorstAdvertisingEver
> 
> Please, take 30 seconds to remove that crap before too many people read it...
> 
> P.S. it's one thing to express yourself like that on a mailing list, it's 
> another one to put it upfront on a blog...
> 
> On 2020-01-30 02:33, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>> Hi
>> 
>> Tired of boring and dull discussions about the past?
>> Tired and bored about the fact that the discussions are not about Pharo but 
>> about X, Z, K?
>> Want to get in touch with other real pharo users?
>> Want to have positive and nice discussions about Pharo?
>> 
>> This mailing-list is for you
>> 
>>  https://lists.gforge.inria.fr/mailman/listinfo/lse-pharo4pharo 
>> 
>> 
>> I created a new mailing-list for Pharo 4 Pharo. 
>> The idea of this new mailing-list is to exchange between Pharo users on 
>> Pharo. 
>> 
>> If you want to talk about the weather and other cool fishing practices or 
>> how other languages are super cool,
>> then you should use another mailing-list. 
>> 
>> You can consider that I’m
>>  [ ]  an asshole
>>  [ ]  an arrogant idiot
>>  [ ]  other 
>> This is not my concern.
>> 
>> My concern is: can we respect Pharo and users of Pharo that want to share 
>> what they are doing 
>> and ask questions about their language?
>> 
>> If you join this mailing-list be warned that I (yes me the benevolent 
>> dictator of Pharo) will remove you from the mailing-list
>> when you get on my nerves. 
>> 
>> If you do not like it, do not like me, do not appreciate it, do not join! 
>> 
>> S. 
>> 
>> BTW they are plenty of newsgroups about Smalltalk and you can join there. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Stéphane Ducasse
>> http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr  / 
>> http://www.pharo.org  
>> 03 59 35 87 52
>> Assistant: Julie Jonas 
>> FAX 03 59 57 78 50
>> TEL 03 59 35 86 16
>> S. Ducasse - Inria
>> 40, avenue Halley, 
>> Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza
>> Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650
>> France
>> 
> -- 
> -
> Benoît St-Jean
> Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean
> Twitter: @BenLeChialeux
> Pinterest: benoitstjean
> Instagram: Chef_Benito
> IRC: lamneth
> GitHub: bstjean
> Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com
> "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero".  (A. Einstein)
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo4pharo mailing-list announce

[Paul DeBruicker]

+1


Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list wrote
> Wow!
> 
> That post on Pharo Weekly ( 
> https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2020/01/30/ann-pharo-4-pharo-mailing-list/ 
> ) really sets a great welcoming ambiance for any newcomer interested by 
> Pharo who'll read that or who'll stumble on it by accident while 
> googling "Pharo+mailing+list" !
> 
> #Not #Fail #WorstAdvertisingEver
> 
> Please, take 30 seconds to remove that crap before too many people read 
> it...
> 
> P.S. it's one thing to express yourself like that on a mailing list, 
> it's another one to put it upfront on a blog...
> 
> On 2020-01-30 02:33, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> Tired of boring and dull discussions about the past?
>> Tired and bored about the fact that the discussions are not about 
>> Pharo but about X, Z, K?
>> Want to get in touch with other real pharo users?
>> Want to have positive and nice discussions about Pharo?
>>
>> This mailing-list is for you
>>
>> https://lists.gforge.inria.fr/mailman/listinfo/lse-pharo4pharo
>>
>> I created a new mailing-list for Pharo 4 Pharo.
>> The idea of this new mailing-list is to exchange between Pharo users 
>> on Pharo.
>>
>> If you want to talk about the weather and other cool fishing practices 
>> or how other languages are super cool,
>> then you should use another mailing-list.
>>
>> You can consider that I’m
>> [ ]  an asshole
>> [ ]  an arrogant idiot
>> [ ]  other
>> This is not my concern.
>>
>> My concern is: can we respect Pharo and users of Pharo that want to 
>> share what they are doing
>> and ask questions about their language?
>>
>> If you join this mailing-list be warned that I (yes me the benevolent 
>> dictator of Pharo) will remove you from the mailing-list
>> when you get on my nerves.
>>
>> If you do not like it, do not like me, do not appreciate it, do not join!
>>
>> S.
>>
>> BTW they are plenty of newsgroups about Smalltalk and you can join there.
>>
>>
>> 
>> Stéphane Ducasse
>> http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org
>> 03 59 35 87 52
>> Assistant: Julie Jonas
>> FAX 03 59 57 78 50
>> TEL 03 59 35 86 16
>> S. Ducasse - Inria
>> 40, avenue Halley,
>> Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza
>> Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650
>> France
>>
> -- 
> -
> Benoît St-Jean
> Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean
> Twitter: @BenLeChialeux
> Pinterest: benoitstjean
> Instagram: Chef_Benito
> IRC: lamneth
> GitHub: bstjean
> Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com
> "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero".  (A. Einstein)





--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo4pharo mailing-list announce

[Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-dev]

--- Begin Message ---

Wow!

That post on Pharo Weekly ( 
https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2020/01/30/ann-pharo-4-pharo-mailing-list/ 
) really sets a great welcoming ambiance for any newcomer interested by 
Pharo who'll read that or who'll stumble on it by accident while 
googling "Pharo+mailing+list" !


#Not #Fail #WorstAdvertisingEver

Please, take 30 seconds to remove that crap before too many people read 
it...


P.S. it's one thing to express yourself like that on a mailing list, 
it's another one to put it upfront on a blog...


On 2020-01-30 02:33, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:

Hi

Tired of boring and dull discussions about the past?
Tired and bored about the fact that the discussions are not about 
Pharo but about X, Z, K?

Want to get in touch with other real pharo users?
Want to have positive and nice discussions about Pharo?

This mailing-list is for you

https://lists.gforge.inria.fr/mailman/listinfo/lse-pharo4pharo

I created a new mailing-list for Pharo 4 Pharo.
The idea of this new mailing-list is to exchange between Pharo users 
on Pharo.


If you want to talk about the weather and other cool fishing practices 
or how other languages are super cool,

then you should use another mailing-list.

You can consider that I’m
[ ]  an asshole
[ ]  an arrogant idiot
[ ]  other
This is not my concern.

My concern is: can we respect Pharo and users of Pharo that want to 
share what they are doing

and ask questions about their language?

If you join this mailing-list be warned that I (yes me the benevolent 
dictator of Pharo) will remove you from the mailing-list

when you get on my nerves.

If you do not like it, do not like me, do not appreciate it, do not join!

S.

BTW they are plenty of newsgroups about Smalltalk and you can join there.



Stéphane Ducasse
http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org
03 59 35 87 52
Assistant: Julie Jonas
FAX 03 59 57 78 50
TEL 03 59 35 86 16
S. Ducasse - Inria
40, avenue Halley,
Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza
Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650
France


--
-
Benoît St-Jean
Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean
Twitter: @BenLeChialeux
Pinterest: benoitstjean
Instagram: Chef_Benito
IRC: lamneth
GitHub: bstjean
Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com
"A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero".  (A. Einstein)

--- End Message ---