Re: [Pharo-users] Becoming good at VM development

[Ichiseki]

Yes Mariano, you are right. The compilation itself should be trivial - in a
sense. The hard part is the actual development of the VM. From what I've
read, the VM is developed in Smalltalk's Slang, then transpiled to C and
then compiled isn't it?





--
View this message in context: 
http://forum.world.st/Becoming-good-at-VM-development-tp4846536p4848186.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Re: [Pharo-users] Becoming good at VM development

[Mariano Martinez Peck]

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 8:25 PM, Ichiseki  wrote:

> Yes Mariano, you are right. The compilation itself should be trivial - in a
> sense. The hard part is the actual development of the VM. From what I've
> read, the VM is developed in Smalltalk's Slang, then transpiled to C and
> then compiled isn't it?
>

Yes, most of it. Most of the "core". Then you also have "platform code"
that is directly hand written in C and it is platform dependent (unix /
windows / etc), like management of sockets, files, etc. All of this is
explained in my posts.

Best,


>
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://forum.world.st/Becoming-good-at-VM-development-tp4846536p4848186.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>


-- 
Mariano
http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Re: [Pharo-users] Becoming good at VM development

[Ben Coman]

On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 9:48 PM, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:
>
> On 01 Sep 2015, at 15:34, Mariano Martinez Peck 
> wrote:
>
> BTW, you question is about becoming good at VM development, so actually the
> compilation of the VM itself is a very very very little part of the whole
> picture.
>
> yeah, I could keep adding “very”s there ;)
>

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step...


>
> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 3:37 AM, Esteban Lorenzano 
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 31 Aug 2015, at 21:41, stepharo  wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>> After the effort made by igor stasenko building the VM is a lot simpler
>> than it used to.
>> Did you try to compile the Pharo VM on your platform?
>> Did you experience some problems?
>> We should probably add a resource page to get started. I do not have the
>> information but
>> we can ask esteban.
>>
>>
>> yes… PharoVM is built as described here:
>>
>> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm/blob/master/README.md
>>
>> if you follow those instructions, you will have no problems.
>> The process is running everyday so it *is* working.
>> Windows guys can have problems if they change mingw version, etc. They
>> shouldn’t, but since this is over our control, I cannot assure you anything.
>> Others problems that have emerged with time (in linux) is people
>> forgetting they need 32bit library versions to be able to build…
>>
>> anyway… that should be enough… for most people, once fulfilled
>> requirements, build VM is as easy as:
>>
>> 1) clone
>> 2) cd image; sh ./newImage.sh ; ./pharo generator.image eval
>> “PharoVMBuilder build"
>> 3) cd ../build ; sh build.sh
>>
>> cheers,
>> Esteban
>>
>>
>> Stef
>>
>> Thanks to all for your responses.
>> I am carefully reading the material presented by you. Ideally I will like
>> to
>> compile the VM into Chrome's NaCL to run an image under Chrome OS. But
>> first
>> things first, as they say. I have to understand the Squeak/Pharo VM.
>> One question, is Mariano's blog still relevant? It seems to me that Pharo
>> VM
>> is not build that way anymore?
>>
>> ありがとう。
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://forum.world.st/Becoming-good-at-VM-development-tp4846536p4847217.html
>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Mariano
> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
>
>

Re: [Pharo-users] Becoming good at VM development

[Esteban Lorenzano]

> On 31 Aug 2015, at 21:41, stepharo  wrote:
> 
> Hi
> After the effort made by igor stasenko building the VM is a lot simpler than 
> it used to.
> Did you try to compile the Pharo VM on your platform?
> Did you experience some problems?
> We should probably add a resource page to get started. I do not have the 
> information but
> we can ask esteban.

yes… PharoVM is built as described here: 

https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm/blob/master/README.md 


if you follow those instructions, you will have no problems. 
The process is running everyday so it *is* working. 
Windows guys can have problems if they change mingw version, etc. They 
shouldn’t, but since this is over our control, I cannot assure you anything. 
Others problems that have emerged with time (in linux) is people forgetting 
they need 32bit library versions to be able to build… 

anyway… that should be enough… for most people, once fulfilled requirements, 
build VM is as easy as: 

1) clone
2) cd image; sh ./newImage.sh ; ./pharo generator.image eval “PharoVMBuilder 
build"
3) cd ../build ; sh build.sh

cheers, 
Esteban

> 
> Stef
>> Thanks to all for your responses.
>> I am carefully reading the material presented by you. Ideally I will like to
>> compile the VM into Chrome's NaCL to run an image under Chrome OS. But first
>> things first, as they say. I have to understand the Squeak/Pharo VM.
>> One question, is Mariano's blog still relevant? It seems to me that Pharo VM
>> is not build that way anymore?
>> 
>> ありがとう。
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> View this message in context: 
>> http://forum.world.st/Becoming-good-at-VM-development-tp4846536p4847217.html
>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] Becoming good at VM development

[stepharo]

thanks esteban!
I love CI.

Le 1/9/15 08:37, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit :


On 31 Aug 2015, at 21:41, stepharo > wrote:


Hi
After the effort made by igor stasenko building the VM is a lot 
simpler than it used to.

Did you try to compile the Pharo VM on your platform?
Did you experience some problems?
We should probably add a resource page to get started. I do not have 
the information but

we can ask esteban.


yes… PharoVM is built as described here:

https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm/blob/master/README.md

if you follow those instructions, you will have no problems.
The process is running everyday so it *is* working.
Windows guys can have problems if they change mingw version, etc. They 
shouldn’t, but since this is over our control, I cannot assure you 
anything.
Others problems that have emerged with time (in linux) is people 
forgetting they need 32bit library versions to be able to build…


anyway… that should be enough… for most people, once fulfilled 
requirements, build VM is as easy as:


1) clone
2) cd image; sh ./newImage.sh ; ./pharo generator.image eval 
“PharoVMBuilder build"

3) cd ../build ; sh build.sh

cheers,
Esteban



Stef

Thanks to all for your responses.
I am carefully reading the material presented by you. Ideally I will 
like to
compile the VM into Chrome's NaCL to run an image under Chrome OS. 
But first

things first, as they say. I have to understand the Squeak/Pharo VM.
One question, is Mariano's blog still relevant? It seems to me that 
Pharo VM

is not build that way anymore?

ありがとう。



--
View this message in context: 
http://forum.world.st/Becoming-good-at-VM-development-tp4846536p4847217.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com .

Re: [Pharo-users] Becoming good at VM development

[Esteban Lorenzano]

> On 01 Sep 2015, at 15:34, Mariano Martinez Peck  wrote:
> 
> BTW, you question is about becoming good at VM development, so actually the 
> compilation of the VM itself is a very very very little part of the whole 
> picture.  
yeah, I could keep adding “very”s there ;)

> 
> On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 3:37 AM, Esteban Lorenzano  > wrote:
> 
>> On 31 Aug 2015, at 21:41, stepharo > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi
>> After the effort made by igor stasenko building the VM is a lot simpler than 
>> it used to.
>> Did you try to compile the Pharo VM on your platform?
>> Did you experience some problems?
>> We should probably add a resource page to get started. I do not have the 
>> information but
>> we can ask esteban.
> 
> yes… PharoVM is built as described here: 
> 
> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm/blob/master/README.md 
> 
> 
> if you follow those instructions, you will have no problems. 
> The process is running everyday so it *is* working. 
> Windows guys can have problems if they change mingw version, etc. They 
> shouldn’t, but since this is over our control, I cannot assure you anything. 
> Others problems that have emerged with time (in linux) is people forgetting 
> they need 32bit library versions to be able to build… 
> 
> anyway… that should be enough… for most people, once fulfilled requirements, 
> build VM is as easy as: 
> 
> 1) clone
> 2) cd image; sh ./newImage.sh ; ./pharo generator.image eval “PharoVMBuilder 
> build"
> 3) cd ../build ; sh build.sh
> 
> cheers, 
> Esteban
> 
>> 
>> Stef
>>> Thanks to all for your responses.
>>> I am carefully reading the material presented by you. Ideally I will like to
>>> compile the VM into Chrome's NaCL to run an image under Chrome OS. But first
>>> things first, as they say. I have to understand the Squeak/Pharo VM.
>>> One question, is Mariano's blog still relevant? It seems to me that Pharo VM
>>> is not build that way anymore?
>>> 
>>> ありがとう。
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> View this message in context: 
>>> http://forum.world.st/Becoming-good-at-VM-development-tp4846536p4847217.html
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com 
>>> .
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mariano
> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com 

Re: [Pharo-users] Becoming good at VM development

[Mariano Martinez Peck]

BTW, you question is about becoming good at VM development, so actually the
compilation of the VM itself is a very very very little part of the whole
picture.

On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 3:37 AM, Esteban Lorenzano 
wrote:

>
> On 31 Aug 2015, at 21:41, stepharo  wrote:
>
> Hi
> After the effort made by igor stasenko building the VM is a lot simpler
> than it used to.
> Did you try to compile the Pharo VM on your platform?
> Did you experience some problems?
> We should probably add a resource page to get started. I do not have the
> information but
> we can ask esteban.
>
>
> yes… PharoVM is built as described here:
>
> https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm/blob/master/README.md
>
> if you follow those instructions, you will have no problems.
> The process is running everyday so it *is* working.
> Windows guys can have problems if they change mingw version, etc. They
> shouldn’t, but since this is over our control, I cannot assure you
> anything.
> Others problems that have emerged with time (in linux) is people
> forgetting they need 32bit library versions to be able to build…
>
> anyway… that should be enough… for most people, once fulfilled
> requirements, build VM is as easy as:
>
> 1) clone
> 2) cd image; sh ./newImage.sh ; ./pharo generator.image eval
> “PharoVMBuilder build"
> 3) cd ../build ; sh build.sh
>
> cheers,
> Esteban
>
>
> Stef
>
> Thanks to all for your responses.
> I am carefully reading the material presented by you. Ideally I will like
> to
> compile the VM into Chrome's NaCL to run an image under Chrome OS. But
> first
> things first, as they say. I have to understand the Squeak/Pharo VM.
> One question, is Mariano's blog still relevant? It seems to me that Pharo
> VM
> is not build that way anymore?
>
> ありがとう。
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://forum.world.st/Becoming-good-at-VM-development-tp4846536p4847217.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
Mariano
http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Re: [Pharo-users] Becoming good at VM development

[Ichiseki]

Thanks to all for your responses.
I am carefully reading the material presented by you. Ideally I will like to
compile the VM into Chrome's NaCL to run an image under Chrome OS. But first
things first, as they say. I have to understand the Squeak/Pharo VM.
One question, is Mariano's blog still relevant? It seems to me that Pharo VM
is not build that way anymore?

ありがとう。



--
View this message in context: 
http://forum.world.st/Becoming-good-at-VM-development-tp4846536p4847217.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Re: [Pharo-users] Becoming good at VM development

[Mariano Martinez Peck]

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 2:49 PM, Ichiseki  wrote:

> Thanks to all for your responses.
> I am carefully reading the material presented by you. Ideally I will like
> to
> compile the VM into Chrome's NaCL to run an image under Chrome OS. But
> first
> things first, as they say. I have to understand the Squeak/Pharo VM.
> One question, is Mariano's blog still relevant? It seems to me that Pharo
> VM
> is not build that way anymore?
>
>
The exact instructions on how to compile the VM are not exactly as now. So
for that I would recommend reading elsewhere (I think the README in git has
some info). A few things have changed. But besides compiling, most of the
concepts explained remain the same.

Cheers,

-- 
Mariano
http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Re: [Pharo-users] Becoming good at VM development

[stepharo]

Hi
After the effort made by igor stasenko building the VM is a lot simpler 
than it used to.

Did you try to compile the Pharo VM on your platform?
Did you experience some problems?
We should probably add a resource page to get started. I do not have the 
information but

we can ask esteban.

Stef

Thanks to all for your responses.
I am carefully reading the material presented by you. Ideally I will like to
compile the VM into Chrome's NaCL to run an image under Chrome OS. But first
things first, as they say. I have to understand the Squeak/Pharo VM.
One question, is Mariano's blog still relevant? It seems to me that Pharo VM
is not build that way anymore?

ありがとう。



--
View this message in context: 
http://forum.world.st/Becoming-good-at-VM-development-tp4846536p4847217.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Re: [Pharo-users] Becoming good at VM development

[Ben Coman]

On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 1:49 AM, Ichiseki  wrote:
> Thanks to all for your responses.
> I am carefully reading the material presented by you. Ideally I will like to
> compile the VM into Chrome's NaCL to run an image under Chrome OS. But first
> things first, as they say. I have to understand the Squeak/Pharo VM.
> One question, is Mariano's blog still relevant? It seems to me that Pharo VM
> is not build that way anymore?

For my own first try at compiling a pharo-vm a few months ago, I found
the Mac instructions in the README [1] quite straight forward.  My
only hiccup was not paying attention to using the recommended SDK
version 10.6.

[1] https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm

cheers -ben

[Pharo-users] Becoming good at VM development

[Ichiseki]

Hi
hello to everyone  everybody
I am interesting in going deeply into VM design, development, optimization,
etc. I know a lot of Haskell, a good amount of C and some languages that use
VM like Python, Lua and Pharo of course.
What would be a road map (books, articles, code to read) to understand
deeply and in detail the Pharo VM, the inter operation between the VM and
the image. I know this could take a lot of time but I'm committed to invest
that time.
Please help me as literature on these topics is very scarce...
Thank SO SO much in advacne
ichiro 



--
View this message in context: 
http://forum.world.st/Becoming-good-at-VM-development-tp4846536.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Re: [Pharo-users] Becoming good at VM development

[Davorin Rusevljan]

On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 10:11 AM, Ichiseki is...@outlook.com wrote:

 Hi
 hello to everyone  everybody
 I am interesting in going deeply into VM design, development, optimization,
 etc. I know a lot of Haskell, a good amount of C and some languages that
 use
 VM like Python, Lua and Pharo of course.
 What would be a road map (books, articles, code to read) to understand
 deeply and in detail the Pharo VM, the inter operation between the VM and
 the image. I know this could take a lot of time but I'm committed to invest
 that time.
 Please help me as literature on these topics is very scarce...
 Thank SO SO much in advacne
 ichiro



 --
 View this message in context:
 http://forum.world.st/Becoming-good-at-VM-development-tp4846536.html
 Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


Get a copy of Smalltalk blue book and read implementation part. It is very
old, but it would get you many important ideas.

http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/FreeBooks/BlueBook/Bluebook.pdf

after that, there is a source of Squek/Pharo virtual machines, and you can
even run and debug them it inside Pharo.

Davorin Rusevljan
http://www.cloud208.com

Re: [Pharo-users] Becoming good at VM development

[Christophe Demarey]

Hi

Le 28 août 2015 à 10:11, Ichiseki a écrit :

 Hi
 hello to everyone  everybody
 I am interesting in going deeply into VM design, development, optimization,
 etc. I know a lot of Haskell, a good amount of C and some languages that use
 VM like Python, Lua and Pharo of course.
 What would be a road map (books, articles, code to read) to understand
 deeply and in detail the Pharo VM, the inter operation between the VM and
 the image. I know this could take a lot of time but I'm committed to invest
 that time.
 Please help me as literature on these topics is very scarce...
 Thank SO SO much in advacne
 ichiro 

There are some nice blogs:
http://www.mirandabanda.org/cogblog/
https://clementbera.wordpress.com/ (cog/spur/sista categories)

smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Re: [Pharo-users] Becoming good at VM development

[Ichiseki]

I've already read those blogs. There are lots of useful information - it
seems - but what I want is a head start, something that starts from zero but
for someone who has programming knowledge.
I will definitely read the blue book. That goes first!
Any more sources, indications?
TYVM

ichiro 



--
View this message in context: 
http://forum.world.st/Becoming-good-at-VM-development-tp4846536p4846648.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Re: [Pharo-users] Becoming good at VM development

[Christian Caldeiro]

Hi Ichiro,

there are a bunch of posts in Mariano Martinez Peck's blog named journey
through the VM, done some years ago. He writes about anything related to
the VM, how to build it, class format, bytecodes, detailed description of
the CompiledMethod class, etc.

You can find the first post here:
https://marianopeck.wordpress.com/2011/03/31/journey-through-the-vm/

Definitely worth reading!

Cheers
Christian



On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Ichiseki is...@outlook.com wrote:

 I've already read those blogs. There are lots of useful information - it
 seems - but what I want is a head start, something that starts from zero
 but
 for someone who has programming knowledge.
 I will definitely read the blue book. That goes first!
 Any more sources, indications?
 TYVM

 ichiro



 --
 View this message in context:
 http://forum.world.st/Becoming-good-at-VM-development-tp4846536p4846648.html
 Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.