Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[TedVanGaalen]

Thanks for Pharo 8.0!

Sorry to revive this thread again and again since version 6, 
but the full screen freeze problem on Mac still persists.

Did a clean install today of Pharo 8.0 as follows:
Remove all Pharo, apps, images, launcher from before < Pharo 8.0
(saved my stuff in .st files before doing so)

Installed Pharo 8.0 launcher
-started with vanilla 8.0 64 bit image. 
-changed fonts to medium (4k screen here) 
-saved the image.
-clicked on full screen option in the top menu.
Freezes again in full screen modus. 

As long as I don't go full screen or resize to that,
everything works ok.
Regards
TedvG








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Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[TedVanGaalen]

Sorry for the later response. yes here too: resizing didn't cause problems.
Drastic work around :o)   :
I have now installed Pharo 7.0 on my other Windows 10 PC,
Using the Pharo Launcher. **
Everything works ok, on my windows machine.
installed Seaside, my own app dev from .st fileins. etc.
Great!

Enjoying the improved 7.0 version.

Thanks to all
Kind regards
TedvG

**
(still having a problem here with Pharo Launcher)
   If I do "save as" in Pharo, the new image does NOT appear in the launcher
Window,
  why is that? 
  Pharo does also not respect the traditional "save as"  default renaming.
  It does not supply the old image name name with the new incremented
.number trailing.
  
  Solved the problem by putting my most recent .image .changes .source 
files
  into a separate independent  folder and making a Windows file association
to the new VM.
  which by the way is my preferred way of working, completely local, off
line,
  putting everything related to a single app development 
   in one autonomous folder. (I don't use git for my own developments..)
   Now, to work with an .image, I simply click on it and the VM starts with
that image,
   what can be simpler? 
  I don't need the nested folder structure the Pharo Launcher uses.
In practice, this means the Pharo Launcher is only useful to me to get
the most recent VM & image, whenever the need arises.







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Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[Tim Mackinnon]

The error is quite specific, you have to click on the maximise green button on 
a Mac and go full screen - if you just resize or alt-click that button you 
don’t seem to get this problem (at least I haven’t been able to - but Ted 
hasn’t confirmed this yet). So I don’t think its quite so bad - and in fact it 
doesn’t always crash, but I have got stuck and been unable to un-maximise, 
however I could save my work.

Tim 

> On 6 Aug 2019, at 23:52, horrido  wrote:
> 
> Hmmm, this is worrisome. My JRMPC competition opens for registration in less
> than a month, and registrants may use either Windows or Mac. Since the
> competition is based on Pharo 7, it is absolutely crucial that Mac-using
> registrants be able to successfully run Pharo 7.
> 
> Since my Mac mini died last month, I can no longer pursue this matter, so
> hopefully someone else can follow up on this soon.
> 
> 
> 
> TedVanGaalen wrote
>> Hi Tim,
>> 
>> I did that before (see thread history) and other kinds of magic too. 
>> Probably (still) a VM error? (because it happens with squeak also, which
>> uses same VM?) 
>> 
>> However, it is beyond my skills and knowledge
>> No idea how to solve this.
>> 
>> The problem has been around for much too long 
>> It bounces people away that arrive for the first time at Pharo/Smalltalk. 
>> (and they surely won't know about a workaround)
>> 
>> When the first simple things they try freezes the whole environment, 
>> they'll go away and probably never return.
>> That was then their first and last impression of Smalltalk.
>> 
>> TedvG
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[horrido]

Hmmm, this is worrisome. My JRMPC competition opens for registration in less
than a month, and registrants may use either Windows or Mac. Since the
competition is based on Pharo 7, it is absolutely crucial that Mac-using
registrants be able to successfully run Pharo 7.

Since my Mac mini died last month, I can no longer pursue this matter, so
hopefully someone else can follow up on this soon.



TedVanGaalen wrote
> Hi Tim,
> 
> I did that before (see thread history) and other kinds of magic too. 
> Probably (still) a VM error? (because it happens with squeak also, which
> uses same VM?) 
>  
> However, it is beyond my skills and knowledge
> No idea how to solve this.
> 
> The problem has been around for much too long 
> It bounces people away that arrive for the first time at Pharo/Smalltalk. 
> (and they surely won't know about a workaround)
> 
> When the first simple things they try freezes the whole environment, 
> they'll go away and probably never return.
> That was then their first and last impression of Smalltalk.
> 
> TedvG
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html





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Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[TedVanGaalen]

Hi Tim,

I did that before (see thread history) and other kinds of magic too. 
Probably (still) a VM error? (because it happens with squeak also, which
uses same VM?) 
 
However, it is beyond my skills and knowledge
No idea how to solve this.

The problem has been around for much too long 
It bounces people away that arrive for the first time at Pharo/Smalltalk. 
(and they surely won't know about a workaround)

When the first simple things they try freezes the whole environment, 
they'll go away and probably never return.
That was then their first and last impression of Smalltalk.

TedvG



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Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[Tim Mackinnon]

Out of curiosity - instead of going true “full screen” (I’m assuming you are 
clicking the green + button), try doing alt+click green button (which just 
resizes the window full screen), and then try your steps - does that make a 
difference?

I believe there is a full screen issue covered here before - but the resized 
full screen may be a decent workaround.

Tim

Sent from my iPhone

> On 2 Aug 2019, at 15:24, TedVanGaalen  wrote:
> 
> To All
> (this thread becomes a bit long) 
> Ca. 4 months later:
> Today 2 Aug 2019 I did this:
> -downloaded and run Pharo Launcher.
>  -In the launcher, downloaded and started the fresh Pharo 7.0 64 image
> 
> Pharo then starts up with this image 
> 
> (but did it also launch with the most recent VM it could find on the server
> or did it take a VM from somewhere on my Mac Mini?
> Should I remove all VMs etc. from my Mac?
> I did that also 4 months ago but that didn't help either...)
> 
> 
> In Pharo, all I did was this:
>  - did go fullscreen (4K), still working.
>  - selected dark theme from the introduction window.
>  - Opened "Appearance" menu
>  - changed the appearance with one click to "Medium"
>(now showing readable fonts on my 4K screen)
>  - changed background to nice blueish gradient.
>  - selected fullscreen in top menu to toggle back to a window.
> Nothing happens and Pharo is frozen again
> Forced quit Pharo was the only thing left to do.
> 
> So this is still a problem, leaving me to fall back again to Pharo 5.0 
> (Is still OK, but not what I desire. 5.0 is the last version that doesn't do
> these things.)
> 
> Kind Regards
> TedvG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[TedVanGaalen]

To All
(this thread becomes a bit long) 
Ca. 4 months later:
Today 2 Aug 2019 I did this:
-downloaded and run Pharo Launcher.
  -In the launcher, downloaded and started the fresh Pharo 7.0 64 image

Pharo then starts up with this image 

(but did it also launch with the most recent VM it could find on the server
or did it take a VM from somewhere on my Mac Mini?
Should I remove all VMs etc. from my Mac?
I did that also 4 months ago but that didn't help either...)


In Pharo, all I did was this:
  - did go fullscreen (4K), still working.
  - selected dark theme from the introduction window.
  - Opened "Appearance" menu
  - changed the appearance with one click to "Medium"
(now showing readable fonts on my 4K screen)
  - changed background to nice blueish gradient.
  - selected fullscreen in top menu to toggle back to a window.
Nothing happens and Pharo is frozen again
Forced quit Pharo was the only thing left to do.

So this is still a problem, leaving me to fall back again to Pharo 5.0 
(Is still OK, but not what I desire. 5.0 is the last version that doesn't do
these things.)

Kind Regards
TedvG









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Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[TedVanGaalen]

Thanks, but I will revert to Pharo 5.0 (pre spur VM)  again...
until the problems with 7.x are solved... or 8 is really stable.

I was regularly telling colleagues with whom I converse on Twitter
(e.g. Swift, C# and other programmers) 
that they should try Smalltalk, especially Pharo,
to see for themselves that programming in Smalltalk 
has many advantages, which however only become 
obvious when actually using Smalltalk. 
So I wrote tweets like
"try it for a week, and you'll be hooked" etc.
So people perhaps downloaded Pharo, but then
to get frozen in a mere minute..

if the *first experience* of those new to Smalltalk
is a freezing Pharo immediately after going full screen
or moving the window.
they might (probably will) think 
"ok, agreed, nothing is perfect, but so much for Smalltalk then, wasting my
time" 
never to return to Smalltalk again.  
Of course, that's really not good at all.

How can one promote Smalltalk if this kind of things happen?
Please note that this is not meant as a negative comment,
because I know that there are not many people
working on Pharo, but those that do, do the best they can!
However, it is unfortunately the status quo.
Very bad, because it bounces away those
who would really like to try Pharo
and might become enthusiastic Smalltalkers.

"Under the hood", need to know? 

New users know nearly nothing about VMs and how they
work. They shouldn't have to.
Let alone hacking VMs etc. to get Pharo going.
(respect btw for those building VMs, this is
not trivial, but this is exactly the reason why it is not a "user thing")

(I am profiling myself here as a typical Smalltalk
user, application programmer. 
Not a tool builder, I know almost nothing about VMs
(Do I have to?) and the deepest system related classes
in the Smalltalk deep sea. Initially, I live on the surface, and
only dive deeper when needed, so to speak.
e.g. looking for base classes like Morph.
If I go deeper, I might run out of mental oxygen :o) 
It is nearly impossible to know all classes living
in a Smalltalk image. (Seems this ocean metaphor is a 
nice one, we know more about (the surface of) the moon
 than about what is in the the depths of our oceans :o) )

All they (should care about) is learning/using
Smalltalk from an application programmer's perspective.

Perhaps it might be a good idea
to make it clear on the Pharo website
that version 5.0 (non spur VM) is the most recent stable version.
when using Pharo for safe reliable application building.
Focus on stable releases, add new things only after that.
(this might sound not too academic, 
but down-to-earth industrial, and yes it is) 

AndPlease   Keep   It  Simple: 
just a no frills one-click-image will do.
no hassle with launchers, loaders etc. 
For example you can still download
Blender (www.blender.org)
A large 3d application in a zip file
which is a single complete app directory with everything in it.

Thanks
TedvG






Ben Coman wrote
> On Tue, 30 Apr 2019 at 17:44, Stephan Eggermont 

> stephan@

>  wrote:
>>
>> TedVanGaalen 

> tedvga@

>  wrote:
>> > Crying victory too soon:
>> > Alas, it happened again pharo screen frozen,
>> > partly drawn, when going to full screen
>> > ( see image.)
>> > frustrating.
>> > The strange thing however:
>> >  the Seaside/Zinc server
>> >  kept running that is: I could enter  and save data in
>> >  in my test app running in the web browser!
>> > No idea why.
> 
> If you hit 
> 
>  do you see an option for Debug Options > Dump XXX
> maybe(?) provide some extra info.
> 
>>
>> That is consistent with other reports. Looks like the event loop
>> receiving
>> keyboard and mouse events gets stopped and not restarted. The http server
>> runs in its own process
> 
> Its been a long time since I've played with Seaside.
> IIUC from Seaside you can get a console-like interface to execute
> commands(?)
> Maybe try...  WorldMorph installNewWorld
> 
> Also maybe try commenting out the call to #interCyclePause:.
> (btw, your CPU will max out)
> 
> cheers -ben





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Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[Ben Coman]

On Tue, 30 Apr 2019 at 17:44, Stephan Eggermont  wrote:
>
> TedVanGaalen  wrote:
> > Crying victory too soon:
> > Alas, it happened again pharo screen frozen,
> > partly drawn, when going to full screen
> > ( see image.)
> > frustrating.
> > The strange thing however:
> >  the Seaside/Zinc server
> >  kept running that is: I could enter  and save data in
> >  in my test app running in the web browser!
> > No idea why.

If you hit  do you see an option for Debug Options > Dump XXX
maybe(?) provide some extra info.

>
> That is consistent with other reports. Looks like the event loop receiving
> keyboard and mouse events gets stopped and not restarted. The http server
> runs in its own process

Its been a long time since I've played with Seaside.
IIUC from Seaside you can get a console-like interface to execute commands(?)
Maybe try...  WorldMorph installNewWorld

Also maybe try commenting out the call to #interCyclePause:.
(btw, your CPU will max out)

cheers -ben

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[Stephan Eggermont]

TedVanGaalen  wrote:
> Crying victory too soon: 
> Alas, it happened again pharo screen frozen, 
> partly drawn, when going to full screen
> ( see image.)
> frustrating.
> The strange thing however:
>  the Seaside/Zinc server
>  kept running that is: I could enter  and save data in
>  in my test app running in the web browser!
> No idea why.

That is consistent with other reports. Looks like the event loop receiving
keyboard and mouse events gets stopped and not restarted. The http server
runs in its own process

Stephan

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[TedVanGaalen]

Crying victory too soon: 
Alas, it happened again pharo screen frozen, 
partly drawn, when going to full screen
( see image.)
frustrating.
The strange thing however:
 the Seaside/Zinc server
 kept running that is: I could enter  and save data in
 in my test app running in the web browser!
No idea why.
TedvG  






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Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[TedVanGaalen]

FYI  FWIWfurther testing: 
Running 7.03 with the 20181039  VM
-loaded Seaside 3.3 from Git
-filed in my test web app + utils
everything working OK without any changes!
Thanks 
TedvG



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Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[TedVanGaalen]

Forgot to mention : Tests were run with newest 7.03 image, also downloaded
today.



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Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[TedVanGaalen]

Hi Stephan

Yes, tested this briefly: I confirm that
  20181039 works, 201810230536 is broken 

The broken version freezes as soon as selecting full screen from the menu
it freezes also when resizing or moving the window. (after force quitting it
and restarting. 

The 20181039 on first sight seems to be OK, 
If it keeps working ok, I will use this VM from now on 
until Pharo is downloadable with the official correct VM
btw: 
PLEASE RETURN THE ONE CLICK IMAGE
I don't prefer the Pharo Launcher, rather have a one-click image:
no fuzz with an extra app, it works right out of the box
and I can have my own directory structure.
(that means here: having Pharo app, .image.1..x,  changes, Pharo source
and other relevant resource files in one project dedicated folder. )
So that everything I need for a project -including Pharo itself
is there, all I have to do is go to that folder.
call it what you will but I prefer this way of working,
don't care much if it uses a few 100 megabytes more.
"I Did It My Way" Frank Sinatra (I can't sing that good :o|   ) 
Regards
TedvG



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Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[Stephan Eggermont]

Ben Coman  wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Apr 2019 at 17:33, Stephan Eggermont
>  wrote:
>> 
>> TedVanGaalen  wrote:
>>> Hi Stephan
>>> yes, you wrote that already before, but
>>> which specific VM from files.pharo.org? there are many.
>>> TedvG
>> 
>> Please compare if you have the same results I had as I described in the
>> issue
>> 20181039 works, 201810230536 is broken
> 
> I've spent ten minutes looking around the site including these locations
> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/70/
> http://files.pharo.org/vm/pharo/mac/
> http://files.pharo.org/vm/nightly-build/
> http://files.pharo.org/platform/
> 
> and not been able to identify those versions.
> Could you provide links to both those VMs?

Vms are in https://files.pharo.org/vm/pharo-spur64/mac/

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[Ben Coman]

On Sun, 28 Apr 2019 at 17:33, Stephan Eggermont  wrote:
>
> TedVanGaalen  wrote:
> > Hi Stephan
> > yes, you wrote that already before, but
> > which specific VM from files.pharo.org? there are many.
> > TedvG
>
> Please compare if you have the same results I had as I described in the
> issue
> 20181039 works, 201810230536 is broken

I've spent ten minutes looking around the site including these locations
http://files.pharo.org/get-files/70/
http://files.pharo.org/vm/pharo/mac/
http://files.pharo.org/vm/nightly-build/
http://files.pharo.org/platform/

and not been able to identify those versions.
Could you provide links to both those VMs?

cheers -ben

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[Stephan Eggermont]

TedVanGaalen  wrote:
> Hi Stephan
> yes, you wrote that already before, but
> which specific VM from files.pharo.org? there are many.
> TedvG

Please compare if you have the same results I had as I described in the
issue   
20181039 works, 201810230536 is broken

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[TedVanGaalen]

Hi Stephan
yes, you wrote that already before, but
which specific VM from files.pharo.org? there are many.
TedvG



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Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[Stephan Eggermont]

TedVanGaalen  wrote:
> Hi Stephan 
> I am a bit confused, not really at home in your VM world,
> so please send me a link for the VM + an Image that you'd like me to try on
> my mac.
> Thanks 
> Ted
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
> 
> 
> 

See github issue. Vm from files.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[TedVanGaalen]

Hi Stephan,
Pending: (Which VM?) 
If you still think trying a VM with Pharo 7 on my Mac is
important for you to conquer the bug in the VM, 
then please tell me which VM I should try out on my Mac.
Regards
TedvG



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Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[TedVanGaalen]

Hi Stephan 
I am a bit confused, not really at home in your VM world,
so please send me a link for the VM + an Image that you'd like me to try on
my mac.
Thanks 
Ted




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Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[Stephan Eggermont]

TedVanGaalen  wrote:
> ok, I'll try 
> please give me a link to that VM  20182039
> can't find it here:
> https://files.pharo.org/vm/pharo-spur64/

Sorry, that’s a typo. See the issue

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[TedVanGaalen]

ok, I'll try 
please give me a link to that VM  20182039
can't find it here:
https://files.pharo.org/vm/pharo-spur64/mac/

TedvG



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Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[Stephan Eggermont]

TedVanGaalen  wrote:
> Thanks for the Info/Link, Stephan
> 
> So it is a VM error then?
> 

That is what I asked you to verify. Does the problem occur with
20182039? If not, then it is probably the same bug. 

Stephsn

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[TedVanGaalen]

Thanks for the Info/Link, Stephan

So it is a VM error then?

Guess we'll have to wait for a VM + Pharo 7.xx combo that works correctly on
macOS.

I now re-installed Pharo 5.0 (pre spur vm) 
loaded Seaside with Zincserver (using gofer) into it and my .st files from
2011...

might be a bit slower perhaps, but this 5.0 Pharo version works flawlessly. 
well, apart from the bugs in the dental app i'm building of course,
but that's my problem :o) 

Regards
Ted





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Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[Stephan Eggermont]

TedVanGaalen  wrote:
> Sure. Which one? and with what image?

See https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/issues/380

Stephan

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[TedVanGaalen]

Did just try with scaled resolution 1920 * 1080 (on my 4K screen) to no
avail.
same error:freeze with "toggle full screen"



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Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[TedVanGaalen]

Hope stack tells more. 
Could dig out an old hdmi HD monitor from 
unpacked moving cartons somewhere,
tell me you don't need me to do so :o\



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Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[TedVanGaalen]

from the other terminal window:

teds-personal-mac-mini:~ TedvG$ ps -a | grep pharo
  811 ttys0000:00.01 bash ./pharo-ui Pharo.image
  815 ttys0000:10.06
/Users/TedvG/pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Pharo Pharo.image
  824 ttys0010:00.00 grep pharo
teds-personal-mac-mini:~ TedvG$ kill -SIGUSR1 815
teds-personal-mac-mini:~ TedvG$ 





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Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[TedVanGaalen]

and so i did. result   (the omega was a ctrl z to get up. had to open another
term. window to kill and dump. see here:
=
teds-personal-mac-mini:~ TedvG$ ./pharo-ui Pharo.image 
Ω   


SIGUSR1 Wed Apr 17 17:45:27 2019


VM: 201901051900 https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git
Date: Sat Jan 5 20:00:11 2019 CommitHash: 7a3c6b6
Plugins: 201901051900 https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git

C stack backtrace & registers:
rax 0x0004 rbx 0x4f9f rcx 0x7ffee4b8df18 rdx
0x7ffee4b8dfd0
rdi 0x rsi 0x rbp 0x7ffee4b8e100 rsp
0x7ffee4b8df18
r8  0x7ffee4b8df40 r9  0x0090 r10 0x7ffee4b8df50 r11
0x0297
r12 0x7ffee4b8dfd0 r13 0x7ffee4b8df50 r14 0x7ffee4b8df40 r15
0x000d431d82f75f17
rip 0x7fff6db6361a
0   libsystem_kernel.dylib  0x7fff6db6361a __select + 10
1   Pharo   0x00010b0c7642 reportStackState
+ 952
2   Pharo   0x00010b0c7860 sigusr1 + 182
3   libsystem_platform.dylib0x7fff6dc0cb5d _sigtramp + 29
4   ??? 0x7ffee4b8da07 0x0 +
140732735740423
5   Pharo   0x00010b0cab6d
ioRelinquishProcessorForMicroseconds + 53
6   Pharo   0x00010b07fda7
primitiveRelinquishProcessor + 54
7   ??? 0x00010f70b32b 0x0 + 4554011435
8   Pharo   0x00010b03f23a interpret + 628
9   Pharo   0x00010b0c8dca
-[sqSqueakMainApplication runSqueak] + 393
10  Foundation  0x7fff43890dd6
__NSFirePerformWithOrder + 362
11  CoreFoundation  0x7fff41571c94
__CFRUNLOOP_IS_CALLING_OUT_TO_AN_OBSERVER_CALLBACK_FUNCTION__ + 23
12  CoreFoundation  0x7fff41571bc9
__CFRunLoopDoObservers + 451
13  CoreFoundation  0x7fff4151474e __CFRunLoopRun +
1143
14  CoreFoundation  0x7fff41514085
CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 459
15  HIToolbox   0x7fff407f29db
RunCurrentEventLoopInMode + 292
16  HIToolbox   0x7fff407f261d
ReceiveNextEventCommon + 355
17  HIToolbox   0x7fff407f24a6
_BlockUntilNextEventMatchingListInModeWithFilter + 64
18  AppKit  0x7fff3eb8cffb _DPSNextEvent +
965
19  AppKit  0x7fff3eb8bd93
-[NSApplication(NSEvent)
_nextEventMatchingEventMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:] + 1361
20  AppKit  0x7fff3eb85eb0 -[NSApplication
run] + 699
21  AppKit  0x7fff3eb753f0 NSApplicationMain
+ 777
22  libdyld.dylib   0x7fff6da273d5 start + 1
23  ??? 0x0002 0x0 + 2


All Smalltalk process stacks (active first):
Process0x113277e80 priority 10
0x7ffee4b9a0b0 M ProcessorScheduler class>idleProcess 0x11009d660: a(n)
ProcessorScheduler class
0x7ffee4b9a0f0 I [] in ProcessorScheduler class>startUp 0x11009d660:
a(n) ProcessorScheduler class
0x7ffee4b9a130 I [] in BlockClosure>newProcess 0x113282088: a(n)
BlockClosure

suspended processes
Process0x11327a9e0 priority 50
0x7ffee4b960b0 I WeakArray class>finalizationProcess 0x11009e420: a(n)
WeakArray class
0x7ffee4b960f0 I [] in WeakArray class>restartFinalizationProcess
0x11009e420: a(n) WeakArray class
0x7ffee4b96130 I [] in BlockClosure>newProcess 0x113646fa8: a(n)
BlockClosure

Process0x11299b5a8 priority 80
0x7ffee4b910e8 M DelayMicrosecondTicker>waitForUserSignalled:orExpired:
0x1104db528: a(n) DelayMicrosecondTicker
0x7ffee4b91130 M [] in
DelaySemaphoreScheduler(DelayBasicScheduler)>runBackendLoopAtTimingPriority
0x1104d03c0: a(n) DelaySemaphoreScheduler
   0x1132542e8 s BlockClosure>ensure:
   0x11298a590 s
DelaySemaphoreScheduler(DelayBasicScheduler)>runBackendLoopAtTimingPriority
   0x113242ee8 s [] in
DelaySemaphoreScheduler(DelayBasicScheduler)>startTimerEventLoopPriority:
   0x11298a668 s [] in BlockClosure>newProcess

Process0x113277e30 priority 60
0x7ffee4b940b0 I SmalltalkImage>lowSpaceWatcher 0x1100ab9a8: a(n)
SmalltalkImage
0x7ffee4b940f0 I [] in SmalltalkImage>installLowSpaceWatcher
0x1100ab9a8: a(n) SmalltalkImage
0x7ffee4b94130 I [] in BlockClosure>newProcess 0x113646e80: a(n)
BlockClosure

Process0x113277ed0 priority 60
0x7ffee4b92068 M InputEventFetcher>waitForInput 0x1107ef020: a(n)
InputEventFetcher
0x7ffee4b920b0 M InputEventFetcher>eventLoop 0x1107ef020: a(n)
InputEventFetcher
0x7ffee4b920f0 I [] in InputEventFetcher>installEventLoop 0x1107ef020:
a(n) InputEventFetcher

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[TedVanGaalen]

Note! Just being playing a bit further with Squeak 5.2
and it freezes too, when resizing the window!
Similar things in VM ?
Regards
TedvG




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Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[Paul DeBruicker]

Don't know about 4k.  Have you tried a smaller monitor on your mini just to
see?


When pharo locks up from the command line you can get a stack dump in the
terminal window you started pharo in.

first find the pharo process you're interested in with

ps -a | grep pharo


then do a

kill -SIGUSR1 


where you replace the  bit with the actual process number of
your frozen pharo image




TedVanGaalen wrote
> Is pharo tested on 4K macs and/or mac mini with 4K screens?
> so on anything with this resolution?
> 
> Does Pharo or the VM emit a post-mortem log/dump file? cannot find any. 





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Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[TedVanGaalen]

Sure. Which one? and with what image?
However, don't know if that would make a difference,
because I've been trying this repeatedly since Pharo 6.0

Squeak 5.2 (just downloaded and launched just to try) works ok,
but for what I do, and previous work/classes made with Pharo 5.0,
Pharo/Seaside would be preferable.
Squeak uses another VM or so it seems
(thought for a moment VMs were the same,
that's why I tried Squeak,)

regards from Souillac. (F) 
TedvG

>From Squeak About

/Applications/Squeak5.2-18229-64bit.app/Contents/Resources/Squeak5.2-18229-64bit.image
Squeak5.2
latest update: #18229
Current Change Set: Unnamed1
Image format 68021 (64 bit)

Virtual Machine
---
/Applications/Squeak5.2-18229-64bit.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak
Croquet Closure Cog[Spur] VM [CoInterpreterPrimitives
VMMaker.oscog-eem.2461] 64 bit
Mac OS X built on Oct 20 2018 08:16:09 UTC Compiler: 4.2.1 Compatible Apple
LLVM 7.3.0 (clang-703.0.31)
platform sources revision VM: 201810190412
https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git Date: Thu Oct 18
21:12:21 2018 CommitHash: 15341b5 Plugins: 201810190412
https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git
CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.2461 uuid:
b3cd33f5-6309-43a1-b669-7a1805111f34 Oct 20 2018
StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.2464 uuid:
0b1fa0a3-a781-4fd5-b1cf-1809796ccbbf Oct 20 2018



 




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Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[Stephan Eggermont]

TedVanGaalen  wrote:

> The freeze problem still exist. (since 2017, starting with Pharo 6) 

Hi Ted. It would be interesting to see if this is related to the fullscreen
bug I described in an opensmalltalkvm issue. I was able to triangulate it
to a set of commits, so could you try with a vm from just before?

Stephan

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[TedVanGaalen]

Hi Sven
-launched the original image again.
-dragged the Pharo window to almost full screen, (4K) 

  it then gets redrawing problems: 
  - drawing the window contents partly 
  - and in the wrong places
  and after a short time then freezes again.
  Exactly the same symptoms as described previously in this thread in 2017.

I tried this several times: launching Pharo with the original pristine
image.
dragging the window bigger, hitting the green bullet + option key etc. 

I have no idea why. frustrating. want to get things done with Pharo.

Is pharo tested on 4K macs and/or mac mini with 4K screens?
so on anything with this resolution?

Does Pharo or the VM emit a post-mortem log/dump file? cannot find any. 

All other apps run without problems and Pharo 5 did also run OK.

TedvG






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Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[Sven Van Caekenberghe]

Try option-click on the green window expansion button. 
This will put the window in almost full screen mode. 
In my experience, that works much better.

> On 17 Apr 2019, at 13:05, TedVanGaalen  wrote:
> 
> Hi Paul
> thanks for responding.
> 
> what I did now:
> - removed all Pharo apps & images etc. from my system
> (no problem, i have all i need backed up in .st and .mcz files)
> followed your instructions to install the latest VM and Image:
> 
>  terminal log: ===
> 
> teds-personal-mac-mini:~ TedvG$ curl https://get.pharo.org/64/ | bash
>  % Total% Received % Xferd  Average Speed   TimeTime Time 
> Current
> Dload  Upload   Total   SpentLeft 
> Speed
> 100 12695  100 126950 0  53119  0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:--
> 53117
> Downloading the latest 70 Image:
>http://files.pharo.org/get-files/70/pharo64.zip
> Pharo.image
> Downloading the latest pharoVM:
>   http://files.pharo.org/get-files/70/pharo64-mac-stable.zip
> pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Pharo
> Creating starter scripts pharo and pharo-ui
> teds-personal-mac-mini:~ TedvG$ ./pharo-ui Pahro.image
> teds-personal-mac-mini:~ TedvG$ ./pharo-ui Pharo.image
> teds-personal-mac-mini:~ TedvG$ ./pharo-ui version
> teds-personal-mac-mini:~ TedvG$ ./pharo-ui --version
> 5.0 5.0.201901051900 Mac OS X built on Jan  5 2019 19:11:02 UTC Compiler:
> 4.2.1 Compatible Apple LLVM 7.3.0 (clang-703.0.31) [Production Spur 64-bit
> VM]
> CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.2504 uuid:
> a00b0fad-c04c-47a6-8a11-5dbff110ac11 Jan  5 2019
> StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.2504 uuid:
> a00b0fad-c04c-47a6-8a11-5dbff110ac11 Jan  5 2019
> VM: 201901051900 https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git
> Date: Sat Jan 5 20:00:11 2019 CommitHash: 7a3c6b6
> Plugins: 201901051900 https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git
> 
> teds-personal-mac-mini:~ TedvG$ ./pharo-ui Pharo.image
> ./pharo-ui: line 11:  1539 Terminated: 15 
> "$DIR"/"pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Pharo" "$@"
> teds-personal-mac-mini:~ TedvG$ 
> end terminal log 
> 
> In the above as yet unchanged new image, I did nothing else
> than "toggle full screen mode"  in the menu bar
> Pharo then freezes. had to kill it with force quit.
> 
> As you can see in the terminal log, it emits this line when/before freezing:
> ./pharo-ui: line 11:  1539 Terminated: 15 
> "$DIR"/"pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Pharo" "$@"
> Maybe this is helpful.
> Would be strange if I am the only one with this problem?
> Kind regards
> TedvG
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
> 

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[TedVanGaalen]

Hi Paul
thanks for responding.

what I did now:
- removed all Pharo apps & images etc. from my system
(no problem, i have all i need backed up in .st and .mcz files)
followed your instructions to install the latest VM and Image:

 terminal log: ===

teds-personal-mac-mini:~ TedvG$ curl https://get.pharo.org/64/ | bash
  % Total% Received % Xferd  Average Speed   TimeTime Time 
Current
 Dload  Upload   Total   SpentLeft 
Speed
100 12695  100 126950 0  53119  0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:--
53117
Downloading the latest 70 Image:
http://files.pharo.org/get-files/70/pharo64.zip
Pharo.image
Downloading the latest pharoVM:
http://files.pharo.org/get-files/70/pharo64-mac-stable.zip
pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Pharo
Creating starter scripts pharo and pharo-ui
teds-personal-mac-mini:~ TedvG$ ./pharo-ui Pahro.image
teds-personal-mac-mini:~ TedvG$ ./pharo-ui Pharo.image
teds-personal-mac-mini:~ TedvG$ ./pharo-ui version
teds-personal-mac-mini:~ TedvG$ ./pharo-ui --version
5.0 5.0.201901051900 Mac OS X built on Jan  5 2019 19:11:02 UTC Compiler:
4.2.1 Compatible Apple LLVM 7.3.0 (clang-703.0.31) [Production Spur 64-bit
VM]
CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.2504 uuid:
a00b0fad-c04c-47a6-8a11-5dbff110ac11 Jan  5 2019
StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.2504 uuid:
a00b0fad-c04c-47a6-8a11-5dbff110ac11 Jan  5 2019
VM: 201901051900 https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git
Date: Sat Jan 5 20:00:11 2019 CommitHash: 7a3c6b6
Plugins: 201901051900 https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git

teds-personal-mac-mini:~ TedvG$ ./pharo-ui Pharo.image
./pharo-ui: line 11:  1539 Terminated: 15 
"$DIR"/"pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Pharo" "$@"
teds-personal-mac-mini:~ TedvG$ 
end terminal log 

In the above as yet unchanged new image, I did nothing else
than "toggle full screen mode"  in the menu bar
Pharo then freezes. had to kill it with force quit.

As you can see in the terminal log, it emits this line when/before freezing:
./pharo-ui: line 11:  1539 Terminated: 15 
"$DIR"/"pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Pharo" "$@"
Maybe this is helpful.
Would be strange if I am the only one with this problem?
Kind regards
TedvG
 




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Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[Paul DeBruicker]

HI Ted, 


How did you install Pharo? 

I ask because I tested the process you described and everything worked fine
on my mac, also Mojave 10.14.4


I opened a terminal, made a temp directory and pasted in

curl https://get.pharo.org/64/ | bash 

to install Pharo. 

I started the image with 

./pharo-ui Pharo.image

Then followed your instructions to set the font to large and maximize Pharo
to be full screen.  Seems to work fine.  


When you run the command to start Pharo from the command line in the
directory with your Pharo 7.0.3 image but instead of specifying an image you
ask the VM for its version e.g './pharo --version' what do you get?


I get:

5.0 5.0.201901051900 Mac OS X built on Jan  5 2019 19:11:02 UTC Compiler:
4.2.1 Compatible Apple LLVM 7.3.0 (clang-703.0.31) [Production Spur 64-bit
VM]
CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.2504 uuid:
a00b0fad-c04c-47a6-8a11-5dbff110ac11 Jan  5 2019
StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.2504 uuid:
a00b0fad-c04c-47a6-8a11-5dbff110ac11 Jan  5 2019
VM: 201901051900 https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git
Date: Sat Jan 5 20:00:11 2019 CommitHash: 7a3c6b6
Plugins: 201901051900 https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git

Maybe you're inadvertently using an old VM?




TedVanGaalen wrote
> Hello
> 
> 
> The freeze problem still exist. (since 2017, starting with Pharo 6) 
> 16 April 2019:
> Today I have loaded Pharo7.0.3-0-64bit-0903ade.image
> with VM 
> http://forum.world.st/file/t230630/Screen_Shot_2019-04-16_at_18.png; 
> 
> On my Mac Mini late 2012, mac OS Mojave 10.14.4 (OS up to date, system
> 100%) 
> Monitor:
> Samsung U28D590:
>   Resolution: 3840 x 2160 (2160p 4K UHD - Ultra High Definition)
>   UI Looks like:  3840 x 2160 @ 30 Hz
>   Framebuffer Depth:  24-Bit Color (ARGB)
> 
>   Note that the same freeze as described previously in this thread 
> still occurs with the latest Squeak version that
>  I have downloaded and tried last  week. 
> So this could be a VM problem? I really don't know.
> All I want to do is write applications with stable Smalltalk/Seaside
> no desire (and knowledge) enough to dive into the deep
> and dark catacombs of the VM world.
> 
> what I did:
> -opened the pristine image as downloaded today
> - in Pharo - settings - appearance:
>  changed the general font size to Large.
> - opened the system browser.
> - clicked the green bullet in the top left corner (maximize)
> Pharo hangs/freeze, menus don't work either. 
> Can only exit using Force Quit.
> The last stable version I did use was Pharo 5.0.
> The problem is still the same as I have described in this thread in August
> 2017.
> I did use Pharo launcher a few weeks ago  (having the same problem) 
> but this is not exactly user friendly, saved images where I don't want to.
> and "Save as from within the image is not respected" 
> I prefer to use just a VM and images, thats good enough for me.
> 
> Keep it simple.
> 
> I'd like to spend more time with Smalltalk, preferably Pharo.
> In essence, I do like new developments like enhanced
> system browsers and debugging
> that might improve Pharo.
> But one might be overshooting the target here,
> I find rocksolid stability more important,
> than adding more features, so, this should be the main priority,
> that is, assuming that Pharo should be deployable in a production
> environment?
> It is marked as "stable" but it isn't, sorry.
> A good house needs a good foundation, same with Smalltalk.
> But it seems we are living in a culture of nervous deadlines and hasty and
> frequent updates,
> is it really necessary?  
> 
> All I want is a one click vm + image, as it was before.
> simply download and run it.
> Why git btw? Smalltalk has an excellent version system,
> by using git there is more dependency impact.
> 
> Now I am still using Pharo 5.0, the last (to me) stable version of Pharo.
> 
> Kind regards
> Ted
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
> 





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Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini -also in 7.03

[TedVanGaalen]

Hello


The freeze problem still exist. (since 2017, starting with Pharo 6) 
16 April 2019:
Today I have loaded Pharo7.0.3-0-64bit-0903ade.image
with VM 
 

On my Mac Mini late 2012, mac OS Mojave 10.14.4 (OS up to date, system 100%) 
Monitor:
Samsung U28D590:
  Resolution:   3840 x 2160 (2160p 4K UHD - Ultra High Definition)
  UI Looks like:3840 x 2160 @ 30 Hz
  Framebuffer Depth:24-Bit Color (ARGB)

  Note that the same freeze as described previously in this thread 
still occurs with the latest Squeak version that
 I have downloaded and tried last  week. 
So this could be a VM problem? I really don't know.
All I want to do is write applications with stable Smalltalk/Seaside
no desire (and knowledge) enough to dive into the deep
and dark catacombs of the VM world.

what I did:
-opened the pristine image as downloaded today
- in Pharo - settings - appearance:
 changed the general font size to Large.
- opened the system browser.
- clicked the green bullet in the top left corner (maximize)
Pharo hangs/freeze, menus don't work either. 
Can only exit using Force Quit.
The last stable version I did use was Pharo 5.0.
The problem is still the same as I have described in this thread in August
2017.
I did use Pharo launcher a few weeks ago  (having the same problem) 
but this is not exactly user friendly, saved images where I don't want to.
and "Save as from within the image is not respected" 
I prefer to use just a VM and images, thats good enough for me.

Keep it simple.

I'd like to spend more time with Smalltalk, preferably Pharo.
In essence, I do like new developments like enhanced
system browsers and debugging
that might improve Pharo.
But one might be overshooting the target here,
I find rocksolid stability more important,
than adding more features, so, this should be the main priority,
that is, assuming that Pharo should be deployable in a production
environment?
It is marked as "stable" but it isn't, sorry.
A good house needs a good foundation, same with Smalltalk.
But it seems we are living in a culture of nervous deadlines and hasty and
frequent updates,
is it really necessary?  

All I want is a one click vm + image, as it was before.
simply download and run it.
Why git btw? Smalltalk has an excellent version system,
by using git there is more dependency impact.

Now I am still using Pharo 5.0, the last (to me) stable version of Pharo.

Kind regards
Ted



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