[Phono-L] Amberolas 1A and 1B horns
Steve, it's not readily possible to compare the 1A and 1B horns with any others because of the unique fittings that they employ on the machines. Even so, there was no other horn shaped like the 1A & 1B horns which probably has the MOST to do with their sound. In other words, you would have to make a wood horn with the same unique shape as the 1A horn to properly compare the effects attributable to the construction materials. But I would imagine that the two materials would sound rather similar since wood is a more intrinsically damped material than metal and is similar in damping to the jute construction of the 1A horn. Also, a solid wood horn would have different damping from that of a plywood construction. But overall, I would agree that I like the metal horns the least of all the constructions because of their poor damping. This could be improved by overlaying the outside of the horn with some plaster or other material which would add mass and damp the metallic ringing. I have heard of people actually doing this with a Credenza. Even though these are wood horns which are already pretty well damped, some people believe that filling the volume between the horn and the cabinet sides with CONCRETE !!! makes them sound better. Good grief, the beast weighs enough as it is. Who needs to add another several hundred pounds of stone just to damp the wood horn a little better? Oh well, ya pays yer money and ya takes yer cherce. Greg Bogantz - Original Message - From: "Steven Medved" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 6:27 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Amberolas 1A and 1B horns > Hi Greg, > > Do they sound better than wood? I am very impressed by how much better > wood sounds than tin, what a huge difference. I always sound test > reproducers with my tin horn as all the defects are pronounced. Wood > makes them sound better even when they are not. > > Steve > > > >> Steve, the 1A and 1B horns are very odd. They're made of a fibrous > >> material, molded or layed up against a form. Different from anything else >> > that Edison ever did. Someone on one of these phono boards had the >> answer > in a previous posting, but I can't remember the details. >> Hopefully they > will respond with a clear description.> Anyway, the >> horns are well damped due to this construction technique and > don't >> exhibit the ringing and resonances that are common with metal horns, > >> which is one of the reasons they sound so good.> > Greg Bogantz> > > >> > - Original Message - > From: "Steven Medved" >> > To: "Antique Phonograph List" >> > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 1:35 PM> Subject: >> Re: [Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B> > > > Thanks so much, what >> was the 1A horn made of?> >> > Steve> >> >> >> >> From: >> gbogantz1 at charter.net> To: phono-l at oldcrank.org> Date: Mon, 27 Oct > >> >> >> 2008 22:40:02 -0400> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Resea > rch: Amberolas 1A and > >> 1B> > I have all three machines, the Amberola > 1A, 1B, and III. The III is > >> > very close to the 1B in sound, but I > think it's a little more midrangey > >> due > to the metal horn. But it > does sound very good, and it's my second > >> favorite > 4-minute cylinder > player on the basis of sound quality, the 1B > >> being the > best > commercially produced 4-minute cylinder machine ever > >> made in my > > opinion. George Paul and I are having this discussion > >> currently over > on the > OTV board, and we both agree also that the 1A is > >> the best > sounding > commercially available 2 minute machine. The horns > >> used in > all these > machines were the best that anybody ever made for > >> > cylinder machines, the > metal one in the III being a close derivative of > > >> the shape of the ones in > the 1A and 1B. This metal horn has a > fairly > >> complex shape and was never > used in any other Ediso> > n > product.> > Greg Bogantz> > > > - Original Message -- > --- > From: > > "Steven Medved" > To: "Antique > Phonograph List" > > > Sent: Monday, October 27, > 2008 10:26 PM> Subject: > > Re: [Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B> > > > > How does it compare > > with the 1B sound wise since the horn is > different?> >> > Steve> >> >> >> > > >> Hey Jim,> > My Amberola III is > absolutely one of my very favorite > >> > > machines. Sounds > > superblooks superb..plays wax Amberols like no > > > >> other > vintage machine > I have ever heard... It makes me > >> > > > happy.> > Bestest,> > Michael Khanchalian (cyldoc)>> > > > > ___> > Phono-L mailing list> > > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > ___> Phono-L mailing list> > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org> > > ___> > Phono-L mailing list> > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > ___
[Phono-L] Amberolas 1A and 1B horns
Hi Greg, Do they sound better than wood? I am very impressed by how much better wood sounds than tin, what a huge difference. I always sound test reproducers with my tin horn as all the defects are pronounced. Wood makes them sound better even when they are not. Steve > Steve, the 1A and 1B horns are very odd. They're made of a fibrous > > material, molded or layed up against a form. Different from anything else > > that Edison ever did. Someone on one of these phono boards had the answer > > in a previous posting, but I can't remember the details. Hopefully they > > will respond with a clear description.> Anyway, the horns are well damped due > to this construction technique and > don't exhibit the ringing and resonances > that are common with metal horns, > which is one of the reasons they sound so > good.> > Greg Bogantz> > > > - Original Message - > From: "Steven > Medved" > To: "Antique Phonograph List" oldcrank.org>> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 1:35 PM> Subject: Re: > [Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B> > > > Thanks so much, what was the > 1A horn made of?> >> > Steve> >> >> >> >> From: gbogantz1 at charter.net> To: > phono-l at oldcrank.org> Date: Mon, 27 Oct > >> 2008 22:40:02 -0400> Subject: > Re: [Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and > >> 1B> > I have all three > machines, the Amberola 1A, 1B, and III. The III is > >> > very close to the > 1B in sound, but I think it's a little more midrangey > >> due > to the metal > horn. But it does sound very good, and it's my second > >> favorite > > 4-minute cylinder player on the basis of sound quality, the 1B > >> being the > > best commercially produced 4-minute cylinder machine ever > >> made in my > > opinion. George Paul and I are having this discussion > >> currently over on > the > OTV board, and we both agree also that the 1A is > >> the best sounding > > commercially available 2 minute machine. The horns > >> used in all these > > machines were the best that anybody ever made for > >> cylinder machines, the > > metal one in the III being a close derivative of > >> the shape of the ones > in > the 1A and 1B. This metal horn has a fairly > >> complex shape and was > never > used in any other Ediso> > n product.> > Greg Bogantz> > > > - > Original Message - > From: > > "Steven Medved" > > To: "Antique Phonograph List" > > > Sent: Monday, > October 27, 2008 10:26 PM> Subject: > > Re: [Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A > and 1B> > > > How does it compare > > with the 1B sound wise since the horn > is different?> >> > Steve> >> >> >> > > >> Hey Jim,> > My Amberola III is > absolutely one of my very favorite > >> > > machines. Sounds > > superblooks superb..plays wax Amberols like no > > > >> other vintage > machine > I have ever heard... It makes me > >> > > happy.> > > Bestest,> > Michael Khanchalian (cyldoc)>> > > > > ___> > Phono-L mailing list> > > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > ___> Phono-L mailing list> > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org> > > ___> > Phono-L mailing list> > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > ___> Phono-L mailing list> > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B
Hello John, I am very impressed and thankful with your reply. How did you learn this? Steve > The horns are jute - similar to old carpet pad - stiffened with rabbit hide > glue, gessoed (thin plaster), and then grain-painted to match the cabinet. > They are self-supporting and only fastened to the bottom of the horn > compartment with a metal stiffener bar.> > >
[Phono-L] Amberolas 1A and 1B horns
It's interesting to note that when I sold stereo equipment Wharfdale speakers that I sold and still have were made from wood pannels filled with sand-of all the speakers we sold they had the sweetest sound-and are still being made today and shipped to th US from England. Abe Feder On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:00 PM, Greg Bogantz wrote: >Steve, it's not readily possible to compare the 1A and 1B horns with any > others because of the unique fittings that they employ on the machines. > Even so, there was no other horn shaped like the 1A & 1B horns which > probably has the MOST to do with their sound. In other words, you would > have to make a wood horn with the same unique shape as the 1A horn to > properly compare the effects attributable to the construction materials. > But I would imagine that the two materials would sound rather similar since > wood is a more intrinsically damped material than metal and is similar in > damping to the jute construction of the 1A horn. > Also, a solid wood horn would have different damping from that of a plywood > construction. But overall, I would agree that I like the metal horns the > least of all the constructions because of their poor damping. This could > be > improved by overlaying the outside of the horn with some plaster or other > material which would add mass and damp the metallic ringing. I have heard > of people actually doing this with a Credenza. Even though these are wood > horns which are already pretty well damped, some people believe that > filling > the volume between the horn and the cabinet sides with CONCRETE !!! makes > them sound better. Good grief, the beast weighs enough as it is. Who > needs > to add another several hundred pounds of stone just to damp the wood horn a > little better? Oh well, ya pays yer money and ya takes yer cherce. > > Greg Bogantz > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Steven Medved" > To: "Antique Phonograph List" > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 6:27 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Amberolas 1A and 1B horns > > > > Hi Greg, > > > > Do they sound better than wood? I am very impressed by how much better > > wood sounds than tin, what a huge difference. I always sound test > > reproducers with my tin horn as all the defects are pronounced. Wood > > makes them sound better even when they are not. > > > > Steve > > > > > > > >> Steve, the 1A and 1B horns are very odd. They're made of a fibrous > > >> material, molded or layed up against a form. Different from anything > else > >> > that Edison ever did. Someone on one of these phono boards had the > >> answer > in a previous posting, but I can't remember the details. > >> Hopefully they > will respond with a clear description.> Anyway, the > >> horns are well damped due to this construction technique and > don't > >> exhibit the ringing and resonances that are common with metal horns, > > >> which is one of the reasons they sound so good.> > Greg Bogantz> > > > >> > - Original Message - > From: "Steven Medved" > >> > To: "Antique Phonograph List" > >> > Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 1:35 PM> > Subject: > >> Re: [Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B> > > > Thanks so much, what > >> was the 1A horn made of?> >> > Steve> >> >> >> >> From: > >> gbogantz1 at charter.net> To: phono-l at oldcrank.org> Date: Mon, 27 Oct > > >> >> > >> 2008 22:40:02 -0400> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Resea > > rch: Amberolas 1A and > >> 1B> > I have all three machines, the Amberola > > 1A, 1B, and III. The III is > >> > very close to the 1B in sound, but I > > think it's a little more midrangey > >> due > to the metal horn. But it > > does sound very good, and it's my second > >> favorite > 4-minute > cylinder > > player on the basis of sound quality, the 1B > >> being the > best > > commercially produced 4-minute cylinder machine ever > >> made in my > > > opinion. George Paul and I are having this discussion > >> currently over > > on the > OTV board, and we both agree also that the 1A is > >> the best > > sounding > commercially available 2 minute machine. The horns > >> used > in > > all these > machines were the best that anybody ever made for > >> > > cylinder machines, the > metal one in the III being a close derivative of > > > >> the shape of the ones in > the 1A and 1B. This metal horn has a > > fairly > >> complex shape and was never > used in any other Ediso> > n > > product.> > Greg Bogantz> > > > - Original Message -- > > --- > From: > > "Steven Medved" > To: "Antique > > Phonograph List" > > > Sent: Monday, October 27, > > 2008 10:26 PM> Subject: > > Re: [Phono-L] Research: Amberolas 1A and 1B> > > > > > > How does it compare > > with the 1B sound wise since the horn is > > different?> >> > Steve> >> >> >> > > >> Hey Jim,> > My Amberola III is > > absolutely one of my very favorite > >> > > machines. Sounds > > > superblooks superb..plays wax Amberols like no > > > >> other > > vintage machine > I have ever heard... It makes me > >> > > >
[Phono-L] Amberola 1A, 1B
Bruce, That is truly an interesting machine, Bruce, and my thanks for sending along that information.? I'm particularly interested in the "cloven hoof" cabinets, and yours - with the characteristics you describe - aids me in this research.? Thanks very much! Best, George Paul -Original Message- From: valecnik57-p...@yahoo.com To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 4:33 am Subject: [Phono-L] Amberola 1A, 1B Greg, George, I have an A300 diamond disc in walnut?with?the following characteristics: - Pooly cabinet (I assume) with split hoof - about 2 inches shorter than standard A20/A300? (but same height as my 1A, 1B) - with three louvres on each side - same amount of space for record compartment as 1A,? but 2 drawers, top drawer for 10inch bottom drawer for 12 inch records, a few 10 inch records catch on the top of the compartment as you open/close the door.? Its that tight. - 12" edison advertising record will barely fit in the 12" compartment, (I only have one to test it) - individual wood dividers between each record in the drawers - top of the cabinet cut down about 1/2 inch on crank side (where record cut out would be on a 1A) and wood replaced.?Appears to be factory?refit to elimiinate the record cut out.? Barlely visible difference in grain with light checking over whole surface - Holes drilled in the inside of the cabinet to mount an Amberola 1 motor, clean, appears no motor was ever in there Appears that this cabinet was intended for a 1A mechanism but then retrofitted for a DD mechanism.? I wrote Mr. Frow a letter several years ago and he suggested this was likely the case. Although this is not exactly related to your discussion on the 1A, 1B, I thought it might be an interesting digression.? Bruce J ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Phono-L Digest, Vol 5, Issue 290
Greg, Could you contact me off list at bruce at bojo.cz?? I wanted to ask you about some reproducer repairs for me.? I sent you an email but?probably have an old address. Thanks, Bruce
[Phono-L] Amberola 1A, 1B
Greg, George, I have an A300 diamond disc in walnut?with?the following characteristics: - Pooly cabinet (I assume) with split hoof - about 2 inches shorter than standard A20/A300? (but same height as my 1A, 1B) - with three louvres on each side - same amount of space for record compartment as 1A,? but 2 drawers, top drawer for 10inch bottom drawer for 12 inch records, a few 10 inch records catch on the top of the compartment as you open/close the door.? Its that tight. - 12" edison advertising record will barely fit in the 12" compartment, (I only have one to test it) - individual wood dividers between each record in the drawers - top of the cabinet cut down about 1/2 inch on crank side (where record cut out would be on a 1A) and wood replaced.?Appears to be factory?refit to elimiinate the record cut out.? Barlely visible difference in grain with light checking over whole surface - Holes drilled in the inside of the cabinet to mount an Amberola 1 motor, clean, appears no motor was ever in there Appears that this cabinet was intended for a 1A mechanism but then retrofitted for a DD mechanism.? I wrote Mr. Frow a letter several years ago and he suggested this was likely the case. Although this is not exactly related to your discussion on the 1A, 1B, I thought it might be an interesting digression.? Bruce J
