Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disc grills cloth question
Hi John: When it comes to Diamond Disc machines there are many factors that sometimes come together for a result that doesn't make sense. The A-200 Queen Anne's introduction in 1912 was somewhat hurried and it was supposed to have a wood grained horn to match the cabinet finish. The some of the later A-200s did have grille cloth. Production of machines were done by Edison while the cabinets were outsourced. They didn't always get their messages straight between the two. As with all Edison machines, the serial number will give a time frame to make an educated guess as to what happened. My big question is why call this machine a Queen Anne? Was Queen Anne really that bow-legged? Best wishes, Al -Original Message- From: john robles john9...@pacbell.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Mon, Apr 23, 2012 9:21 pm Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Amberola grills cloth question That raises a question from me...I have a lovely Diamond Disc A-200 with a lovely grained horn. It was my thought that the machines with grained horns had no cloth, yet the grille on this one had shreds of the original cloth on it. Any thoughts on that?? It matches the original cloth on another Edison I had. John Robles From: Bob Maffit maff...@bresnan.net To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Amberola grills cloth question thanks -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of clockworkh...@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 8:59 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Amberola grills cloth question One more loose thought, the Amberolas B5, D6, etc. that were shipped from cabinets left over after the December 1914 factory fire with the Amberola 30 and 50 mechanisms will have grille clothes to keep buyers from seeing the 'lovely' black swinging horn behind the grille. Regards to all, Al ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Amberola grills cloth question
Here's a loose question for you Al or any others. On the B-60 or C-60 DD machine. I have seen original illustrations with grill cloth, yet these have wood grained horns. What's correct here? Kindest thanks for your thoughts. Michael Khanchalian (Cylinder Doctor) On Apr 23, 2012, at 7:58 PM, clockworkh...@aol.com wrote: One more loose thought, the Amberolas B5, D6, etc. that were shipped from cabinets left over after the December 1914 factory fire with the Amberola 30 and 50 mechanisms will have grille clothes to keep buyers from seeing the 'lovely' black swinging horn behind the grille. Regards to all, Al ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Amberola grills cloth question
My B-80 has a nicely mahogany-grained horn, yet also has the ancient remnants of greenish, silk grille cloth. - Original Message - From: Michael F. Khanchalian mfkhanchal...@altrionet.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 2:18 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Amberola grills cloth question Here's a loose question for you Al or any others. On the B-60 or C-60 DD machine. I have seen original illustrations with grill cloth, yet these have wood grained horns. What's correct here? ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disc grilles cloth questions...
Greetings Doctor: I am not sure that 'correct' is a word to apply to minor variations on Edison machines. The machines were assembled from parts and shipped as fast as they could. Variations from suppliers and from their own factory mechanisms were to be expected. The B-60 was a 1913-14 machine. It was sometime in this period that a decision was made to use the grille cloth rather than the more expensive and more time consuming wood graining of the horns. It really should not be a surprise to find both in a machine as production brought the cabinets together with the mechanisms as one of the last steps in assembly. I don't think I have ever seen a B-60 that did not have grille cloth original from the factory; but, I would not rule out a machine that never had cloth. As for the wood grained horns, these may have been ordered that way long before production of the machine. There were many production problems with the motor of these early DD machines and sometimes the assembly was halted to redesign the motor. No doubt earlier horns had stockpiled and were used as production resumed. So, you could have a wood grained horn from early 1913 going into a grille clothed cabinet of 1914. Had the fire not come along in 1914, you might h ave seen these models without the wood grained horns and only flat black horns behind grille cloth. These are the type of things that I would find interesting to look for at the Edison Site. Too bad the Site has such limited access to serious researchers. Best wishes, Al -Original Message- From: Michael F. Khanchalian mfkhanchal...@altrionet.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Mon, Apr 23, 2012 11:40 pm Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Amberola grills cloth question Here's a loose question for you Al or any others. On the B-60 or C-60 DD machine. I have seen original illustrations with grill cloth, yet these have wood grained horns. What's correct here? Kindest thanks for your thoughts. Michael Khanchalian (Cylinder Doctor) On Apr 23, 2012, at 7:58 PM, clockworkh...@aol.com wrote: One more loose thought, the Amberolas B5, D6, etc. that were shipped from cabinets left over after the December 1914 factory fire with the Amberola 30 and 50 mechanisms will have grille clothes to keep buyers from seeing the 'lovely' black swinging horn behind the grille. Regards to all, Al ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Amberola grills cloth question
Here is a very early Amberola Ad, depicting the seldom seen ill fated earliest style Rococo Grill Amberola 1A Cabinet that was made by Herzog. Note there is no Grill Cloth shown. http://www.atticpaper.com/proddetail.php?prod=1910-edison-amberola-ad Bruce - Original Message - From: clockworkh...@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 10:53:42 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Amberola grills cloth question One quick and easy way to tell if the Amberola had a grille cloth or not is to see if the horn is wood grained. The Amberola IA, IB, III, IV, V, IV, VIII, and X series of Diamond Amberolas had wood grained horns so they did not need to have grille cloth to disguise the internal horn. When the Amberola 30, 50, 75, and later 60 and 80 came along it was determined that a quickly glued in grille cloth would be less expensive than the wood grained paint process. So you have an ugly black horn hidden behind the cloth. Along the way people have added grille cloth to the earlier Amberolas (to keep the dust out) and taken the cloth out of the later ones (to let the sound out); thus, there is confusion today. I hope this helps, Al Sefl Edison Nut... ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disc grills cloth question
Thanks for the info! There were to be 1200 A200 models released by October 1, 1912. Only 890 ended up being ready by that date, but the low serial number 430 on mine leads me to believe it was one of those first machines. That's why I would have thought there would be no cloth on it, unless someone added the clot at some point. Also, mine doesn't have casters, though the illustratino in Frow's book indicates casters. I have seen other early DDs that don't have them though. Thanks again! John From: clockworkh...@aol.com clockworkh...@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 11:12 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disc grills cloth question Hi John: When it comes to Diamond Disc machines there are many factors that sometimes come together for a result that doesn't make sense. The A-200 Queen Anne's introduction in 1912 was somewhat hurried and it was supposed to have a wood grained horn to match the cabinet finish. The some of the later A-200s did have grille cloth. Production of machines were done by Edison while the cabinets were outsourced. They didn't always get their messages straight between the two. As with all Edison machines, the serial number will give a time frame to make an educated guess as to what happened. My big question is why call this machine a Queen Anne? Was Queen Anne really that bow-legged? Best wishes, Al -Original Message- From: john robles john9...@pacbell.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Mon, Apr 23, 2012 9:21 pm Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Amberola grills cloth question That raises a question from me...I have a lovely Diamond Disc A-200 with a lovely grained horn. It was my thought that the machines with grained horns had no cloth, yet the grille on this one had shreds of the original cloth on it. Any thoughts on that?? It matches the original cloth on another Edison I had. John Robles From: Bob Maffit maff...@bresnan.net To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Amberola grills cloth question thanks -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of clockworkh...@aol.com Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 8:59 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Amberola grills cloth question One more loose thought, the Amberolas B5, D6, etc. that were shipped from cabinets left over after the December 1914 factory fire with the Amberola 30 and 50 mechanisms will have grille clothes to keep buyers from seeing the 'lovely' black swinging horn behind the grille. Regards to all, Al ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] Amberola grills cloth question
Yes, this is helpful information for me too but I wonder what kind of cloth is most like original. That are many nice, rich looking 1920s radio speaker cloths available but other than that, I wouldn't have a clue what to use. My Amberola 50 has some sort of faded ribbed paisley cloth on it that surely wasn't original- or was it? Green Mountain Bill On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 5:17 AM, bruce78...@comcast.net wrote: Here is a very early Amberola Ad, depicting the seldom seen ill fated earliest style Rococo Grill Amberola 1A Cabinet that was made by Herzog. Note there is no Grill Cloth shown. http://www.atticpaper.com/proddetail.php?prod=1910-edison-amberola-ad Bruce - Original Message - From: clockworkh...@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 10:53:42 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Amberola grills cloth question One quick and easy way to tell if the Amberola had a grille cloth or not is to see if the horn is wood grained. The Amberola IA, IB, III, IV, V, IV, VIII, and X series of Diamond Amberolas had wood grained horns so they did not need to have grille cloth to disguise the internal horn. When the Amberola 30, 50, 75, and later 60 and 80 came along it was determined that a quickly glued in grille cloth would be less expensive than the wood grained paint process. So you have an ugly black horn hidden behind the cloth. Along the way people have added grille cloth to the earlier Amberolas (to keep the dust out) and taken the cloth out of the later ones (to let the sound out); thus, there is confusion today. I hope this helps, Al Sefl Edison Nut... ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
