Re: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making - Dressing Too
Greetings everyone: I work on pipe organs and get the best leather there is () from a pipe organ specialty company *but* Tandy or a local leather supply would also have good leather. The leather made for purse straps that has a low stretch factor should be fine. Ask the leather expert at the store for recommendations. Saddle makers have good leather decorative strips also. Any brown leather that resists stretching will work. Sadly modern leathers are not being tanned the old ways to last a long time and remain flexible; but, they can be dressed to overcome tanning shortcuts. (see last paragraph) The really big element in making your own belt is the SKIVING of the leather ends so the butt joint is not a lump to cause a speed bump on the record being played. A good lap joint should be hard to spot. BARGE Cement was made for leather shoes, boots, etc., and is very flexible. Just don't breath it... When rebuilding a pipe organ we often have to put two pieces of leather together where they will flex. The Barge Cement is rubber based and can flex millions of times without letting go. After the belt is made and the stitching done, I would recommend a good belt dressing. In the old days a compound of pine tar, beeswax, and a smidgeon of linseed oil was used. The antique can I have is from 1910 (I believe) and is labeled Johnson's Can't Slip. When a belt is thoroughly infused with this stuff it should outlast the machine's owner ! ! ! Hope that helps... Al Who thought belt dressing was an extra fattening form of ranch dressing... ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making
Al: Thanks for the comments. Later Bob -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of clockworkh...@aol.com Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 6:12 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making Neoprene, which is the generic brand name for chloroprene, has a life of 15 years according to NASA specs. But, those specs are for non-flexing O rings under compression and not exposed to air. I suspect a neoprene belt would do a great job and not have the problem a leather belt with a bad bulging joint to cause record 'wow' would have. That being said, I have leather belts of 100+ years still going strong with original stitching. For a machine just to play a record well the neoprene is likely a good choice. For originality, a leather belt with stitching is my choice. You can skive the ends of the leather belt. Join them with Barge Cement. Then use one of those toy sewing machines they sell As Seen On TV, with a home made guide fence, to put on the twin parallel stitches. A light touch of Barge Cement at the thread ends will keep them from unraveling while playing. The belt can be dressed with leather protectant and will last indefinitely. That's my 2 cents worth... Al ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making
Neoprene, which is the generic brand name for chloroprene, has a life of 15 years according to NASA specs. But, those specs are for non-flexing O rings under compression and not exposed to air. I suspect a neoprene belt would do a great job and not have the problem a leather belt with a bad bulging joint to cause record 'wow' would have. That being said, I have leather belts of 100+ years still going strong with original stitching. For a machine just to play a record well the neoprene is likely a good choice. For originality, a leather belt with stitching is my choice. You can skive the ends of the leather belt. Join them with Barge Cement. Then use one of those toy sewing machines they sell As Seen On TV, with a home made guide fence, to put on the twin parallel stitches. A light touch of Barge Cement at the thread ends will keep them from unraveling while playing. The belt can be dressed with leather protectant and will last indefinitely. That's my 2 cents worth... Al ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making
Hello Al, Where do you get your leather for the belts? Here is Barge Cement for those who like me had never heard of it: http://www.amazon.com/BARGE-DA081-Barge-Cement/dp/B002JL2ZHE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8qid=1314492925sr=8-1 Steve To: phono-l@oldcrank.org From: clockworkh...@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 20:12:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making Neoprene, which is the generic brand name for chloroprene, has a life of 15 years according to NASA specs. But, those specs are for non-flexing O rings under compression and not exposed to air. I suspect a neoprene belt would do a great job and not have the problem a leather belt with a bad bulging joint to cause record 'wow' would have. That being said, I have leather belts of 100+ years still going strong with original stitching. For a machine just to play a record well the neoprene is likely a good choice. For originality, a leather belt with stitching is my choice. You can skive the ends of the leather belt. Join them with Barge Cement. Then use one of those toy sewing machines they sell As Seen On TV, with a home made guide fence, to put on the twin parallel stitches. A light touch of Barge Cement at the thread ends will keep them from unraveling while playing. The belt can be dressed with leather protectant and will last indefinitely. That's my 2 cents worth... Al ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making
I use Walther's Goo cement. It is a very flexible contact cement great for belts and record album repair. It can be purchased at any hobby shop that deals with model railroad supplies. Harvey Kravitz From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making Hello Al, Where do you get your leather for the belts? Here is Barge Cement for those who like me had never heard of it: http://www.amazon.com/BARGE-DA081-Barge-Cement/dp/B002JL2ZHE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8qid=1314492925sr=8-1 Steve To: phono-l@oldcrank.org From: clockworkh...@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 20:12:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making Neoprene, which is the generic brand name for chloroprene, has a life of 15 years according to NASA specs. But, those specs are for non-flexing O rings under compression and not exposed to air. I suspect a neoprene belt would do a great job and not have the problem a leather belt with a bad bulging joint to cause record 'wow' would have. That being said, I have leather belts of 100+ years still going strong with original stitching. For a machine just to play a record well the neoprene is likely a good choice. For originality, a leather belt with stitching is my choice. You can skive the ends of the leather belt. Join them with Barge Cement. Then use one of those toy sewing machines they sell As Seen On TV, with a home made guide fence, to put on the twin parallel stitches. A light touch of Barge Cement at the thread ends will keep them from unraveling while playing. The belt can be dressed with leather protectant and will last indefinitely. That's my 2 cents worth... Al ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making
I don't know about everybody else, but I got mine from a piano supply company.I think it's used for player pianos. It is like what they call lining leather at Tandy, but lining leather is a bit stretchy. If you have a Tandy Leather store nearby, they are a great outlet for leather of all types. I cut mine with a steel rule and a sharp knife so it doesn't have all the cow curves that the belting leather that most people sell has. Most commercially available belting leather is crap, you get maybe 2 belts out of two yards. John Robles From: Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making Hello Al, Where do you get your leather for the belts? Here is Barge Cement for those who like me had never heard of it: http://www.amazon.com/BARGE-DA081-Barge-Cement/dp/B002JL2ZHE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8qid=1314492925sr=8-1 Steve To: phono-l@oldcrank.org From: clockworkh...@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 20:12:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making Neoprene, which is the generic brand name for chloroprene, has a life of 15 years according to NASA specs. But, those specs are for non-flexing O rings under compression and not exposed to air. I suspect a neoprene belt would do a great job and not have the problem a leather belt with a bad bulging joint to cause record 'wow' would have. That being said, I have leather belts of 100+ years still going strong with original stitching. For a machine just to play a record well the neoprene is likely a good choice. For originality, a leather belt with stitching is my choice. You can skive the ends of the leather belt. Join them with Barge Cement. Then use one of those toy sewing machines they sell As Seen On TV, with a home made guide fence, to put on the twin parallel stitches. A light touch of Barge Cement at the thread ends will keep them from unraveling while playing. The belt can be dressed with leather protectant and will last indefinitely. That's my 2 cents worth... Al ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making
The fellow selling them probably found Audio Visual equipment belts such as would be used on projectors or VCRs that were the right size. They cost a couple of dollars each if you know what you are looking for. It's getting the right one yourself that is the problem. He's already done the hard work. Ron -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Bob Maffit Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 11:14 PM To: 'Antique Phonograph List' Subject: Re: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making John: Thanks for the comments. I went out to EBay and found the belts and read the comments. Seems like a practical item to try. I think I might give them a go. I noticed belts were listed for various machines. So, I assume a belt is for a specific machine. And not universal. Again, thanks to all who commented. Later Bob -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of john robles Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 7:30 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making I did write an article on it. These belts are not rubber but are neoprene. I bought one for my Gem, liked it, and then bought one for my Fireside and Home. They work very well. I tested the speed of the machine with the tachometer and the speed is stable, not like it would be with a rubber belt. John Robles From: Bob Maffit maff...@bresnan.net To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 5:25 PM Subject: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making Phono Listers: I am working on a Edison Standard and at the point I need to make a belt. While doing such, I recall an offering, I think on EBay, of a rubber like belt. Now, don't get offended, I know the organic phono folk may not appreciate this thread. .. I think it was about $13! A little pricy. I suspect someone has found a rubber belt manufactured for something which works well. Does anyone have comments, thoughts and or information like: substance, source, other important info specifics etc, regarding this belt topic? Are there any rules of thumb as to making leather belts such as length of leather: length of the loop: shaping the ends: how much overlap: glue or adhesive: Anything one has to offer would be appreciated.. *smile* Later Bob ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making
I've been reading all of the comments.I'll stick to using leather belts for my machines. They are easy to make and use. Harvey Kravitz From: Ron L'Herault lhera...@bu.edu To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 6:04 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making The fellow selling them probably found Audio Visual equipment belts such as would be used on projectors or VCRs that were the right size. They cost a couple of dollars each if you know what you are looking for. It's getting the right one yourself that is the problem. He's already done the hard work. Ron -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Bob Maffit Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 11:14 PM To: 'Antique Phonograph List' Subject: Re: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making John: Thanks for the comments. I went out to EBay and found the belts and read the comments. Seems like a practical item to try. I think I might give them a go. I noticed belts were listed for various machines. So, I assume a belt is for a specific machine. And not universal. Again, thanks to all who commented. Later Bob -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of john robles Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 7:30 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making I did write an article on it. These belts are not rubber but are neoprene. I bought one for my Gem, liked it, and then bought one for my Fireside and Home. They work very well. I tested the speed of the machine with the tachometer and the speed is stable, not like it would be with a rubber belt. John Robles From: Bob Maffit maff...@bresnan.net To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 5:25 PM Subject: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making Phono Listers: I am working on a Edison Standard and at the point I need to make a belt. While doing such, I recall an offering, I think on EBay, of a rubber like belt. Now, don't get offended, I know the organic phono folk may not appreciate this thread. .. I think it was about $13! A little pricy. I suspect someone has found a rubber belt manufactured for something which works well. Does anyone have comments, thoughts and or information like: substance, source, other important info specifics etc, regarding this belt topic? Are there any rules of thumb as to making leather belts such as length of leather: length of the loop: shaping the ends: how much overlap: glue or adhesive: Anything one has to offer would be appreciated.. *smile* Later Bob ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
[Phono-L] phonograph belt making
Phono Listers: I am working on a Edison Standard and at the point I need to make a belt. While doing such, I recall an offering, I think on EBay, of a rubber like belt. Now, don't get offended, I know the organic phono folk may not appreciate this thread. .. I think it was about $13! A little pricy. I suspect someone has found a rubber belt manufactured for something which works well. Does anyone have comments, thoughts and or information like: substance, source, other important info specifics etc, regarding this belt topic? Are there any rules of thumb as to making leather belts such as length of leather: length of the loop: shaping the ends: how much overlap: glue or adhesive: Anything one has to offer would be appreciated.. *smile* Later Bob ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making
John Robles wrote an article for the GSPS Record about the guy who sells them on eBay. John bought one of the belts for his Fireside, I think, and was very impressed with it. Mike Sorter -Original Message- From: maff...@bresnan.net To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thu, Aug 25, 2011 1:24 pm Subject: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making Phono Listers: I am working on a Edison Standard and at the point I need to make a belt. While doing such, I recall an offering, I think on EBay, of a rubber like belt. Now, don't get offended, I know the organic phono folk may not appreciate this thread. .. I think it was about $13! A little pricy. I suspect someone has found a rubber belt manufactured for something which works well. Does anyone have comments, thoughts and or information like: substance, source, other important info specifics etc, regarding this belt topic? Are there any rules of thumb as to making leather belts such as length of leather: length of the loop: shaping the ends: how much overlap: glue or adhesive: Anything one has to offer would be appreciated.. *smile* Later Bob ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making
I did write an article on it. These belts are not rubber but are neoprene. I bought one for my Gem, liked it, and then bought one for my Fireside and Home. They work very well. I tested the speed of the machine with the tachometer and the speed is stable, not like it would be with a rubber belt. John Robles From: Bob Maffit maff...@bresnan.net To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 5:25 PM Subject: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making Phono Listers: I am working on a Edison Standard and at the point I need to make a belt. While doing such, I recall an offering, I think on EBay, of a rubber like belt. Now, don't get offended, I know the organic phono folk may not appreciate this thread. .. I think it was about $13! A little pricy. I suspect someone has found a rubber belt manufactured for something which works well. Does anyone have comments, thoughts and or information like: substance, source, other important info specifics etc, regarding this belt topic? Are there any rules of thumb as to making leather belts such as length of leather: length of the loop: shaping the ends: how much overlap: glue or adhesive: Anything one has to offer would be appreciated.. *smile* Later Bob ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making
I have used one of his belts on a Triumph B. With an imperfectly sized and joined leather belt it ran poorly with too much wow and I couldn't quite get it right. With this it runs reliably, no issues at all. I'm not sure how long it will last before the rubber stiffens, but for now it's my workhorse machine. Jeff - Original Message - From: Bob Maffit maff...@bresnan.net To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 8:25 PM Subject: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making Phono Listers: I am working on a Edison Standard and at the point I need to make a belt. While doing such, I recall an offering, I think on EBay, of a rubber like belt. Now, don't get offended, I know the organic phono folk may not appreciate this thread. .. I think it was about $13! A little pricy. I suspect someone has found a rubber belt manufactured for something which works well. Does anyone have comments, thoughts and or information like: substance, source, other important info specifics etc, regarding this belt topic? Are there any rules of thumb as to making leather belts such as length of leather: length of the loop: shaping the ends: how much overlap: glue or adhesive: Anything one has to offer would be appreciated.. *smile* Later Bob ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
Re: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making
John: Thanks for the comments. I went out to EBay and found the belts and read the comments. Seems like a practical item to try. I think I might give them a go. I noticed belts were listed for various machines. So, I assume a belt is for a specific machine. And not universal. Again, thanks to all who commented. Later Bob -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of john robles Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 7:30 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making I did write an article on it. These belts are not rubber but are neoprene. I bought one for my Gem, liked it, and then bought one for my Fireside and Home. They work very well. I tested the speed of the machine with the tachometer and the speed is stable, not like it would be with a rubber belt. John Robles From: Bob Maffit maff...@bresnan.net To: 'Antique Phonograph List' phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 5:25 PM Subject: [Phono-L] phonograph belt making Phono Listers: I am working on a Edison Standard and at the point I need to make a belt. While doing such, I recall an offering, I think on EBay, of a rubber like belt. Now, don't get offended, I know the organic phono folk may not appreciate this thread. .. I think it was about $13! A little pricy. I suspect someone has found a rubber belt manufactured for something which works well. Does anyone have comments, thoughts and or information like: substance, source, other important info specifics etc, regarding this belt topic? Are there any rules of thumb as to making leather belts such as length of leather: length of the loop: shaping the ends: how much overlap: glue or adhesive: Anything one has to offer would be appreciated.. *smile* Later Bob ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org
