RE: [PHP-DEV] Default extensions (was: mbstring)
At 00:19 03/09/2002, James Cox wrote: i still don't see why we shouldn't just disable everything by default and write a 'default configure' script... Because other than a WFF of 'purity', it gains nothing and loses lots. Zeev -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Default extensions (was: mbstring)
Best regards Andrey Hristov - Original Message - From: James Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jani Taskinen [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Jon Parise [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: PHP Development Mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 12:19 AM Subject: RE: [PHP-DEV] Default extensions (was: mbstring) Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world where sysadmins know how to read and listen to their users requests. That's why mysql for example is enabled by default. (or that's the main reasoning behind it at least) And we can't educate people or force them to anything either. Maybe we should add a general '--disable-all' option? i'm +1 for that if it means that first it disables everything, and then you enable stuff bit by bit... --disable-all is good for me for one reason - to speed dev builds. When I work on arrays I don't want to link xml, mysql and so on. I've disabled them in config.nice but --disable-all is better because it won't be needed to search which modules I can disable. --disable-all can be good for some sysadmins that run large websites and want to have only that they need - disabling all and adding what is needed thus decreasing the size of the binary. The idea about ncurses based setup is very good and I hope we will found the man/men who will do it. On the other hand it won't be good if mysql is disabled by default. I saw one reason here : endless bug reports about mysql_connect() more than these about Apache2 builds. Another reason : mysql is easy to install on most platforms (mostly windows) and because PHP is easy to learn (good curve) - PHP is the choice as the language to write scripts. Also I think that enabling postgresql support by default will be good. Thus we will provide support not only for one database in the builds. Mysql is overpromoted and PG stays in the dark (this is my opinion). Regards, Andrey -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Default extensions (was: mbstring)
On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Andrey Hristov wrote: i'm +1 for that if it means that first it disables everything, and then you enable stuff bit by bit... --disable-all is good for me for one reason - to speed dev builds. When I work on arrays I don't want to link xml, mysql and so on. I've disabled them in config.nice but --disable-all is better because it won't be needed to search which modules I can disable. --disable-all can be good for some sysadmins that run large websites and want to have only that they need - disabling all and adding what is needed thus decreasing the size of the binary. yes, and as I pointed out Jani got this almost working. The idea about ncurses based setup is very good and I hope we will found the man/men who will do it. Yeah, it's nice... but no time :) On the other hand it won't be good if mysql is disabled by default. I saw one reason here : endless bug reports about mysql_connect() more than these about Apache2 builds. Another reason : mysql is easy to install on most platforms (mostly windows) and because PHP is easy to learn (good curve) - PHP is the choice as the language to write scripts. Also I think that enabling postgresql support by default will be good. Thus we will provide support not only for one database in the builds. Mysql is overpromoted and PG stays in the dark (this is my opinion). Well, for something to enable by default you need to bundle the library, and I don't think it's a good idea to bundle another RDBMS client library... Derick --- Did I help you? http://www.derickrethans.nl/link.php?url=giftlist Frequent ranting: http://www.derickrethans.nl/ --- PHP: Scripting the Web - [EMAIL PROTECTED] All your branches are belong to me! SRM: Script Running Machine - www.vl-srm.net --- -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Default extensions (was: mbstring)
At 00:15 03.09.2002, Edin Kadribasic wrote: i still don't see why we shouldn't just disable everything by default and write a 'default configure' script... I don't see why you're so upset that some extensions are enabled by default. The main rule so far was if the extension is stable and if it does not depend on external libraries it was enabled. This was done so people who get PHP through hosted services have the most PHP functionality available to them. This IMHO outweighs the slight inconvenience of adding a few configure options for people who compile PHP themselves. Edin I can only agree to that! I do not see some extra bytes for the binaries being a problem with to days disk and memory sizes. For me it seems VERY important to have a great API/functionality in PHP. -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Default extensions (was: mbstring)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 03 September 2002 08:31 am, Marcus Börger wrote: At 00:15 03.09.2002, Edin Kadribasic wrote: i still don't see why we shouldn't just disable everything by default and write a 'default configure' script... I don't see why you're so upset that some extensions are enabled by default. The main rule so far was if the extension is stable and if it does not depend on external libraries it was enabled. This was done so people who get PHP through hosted services have the most PHP functionality available to them. This IMHO outweighs the slight inconvenience of adding a few configure options for people who compile PHP themselves. Edin I can only agree to that! I do not see some extra bytes for the binaries being a problem with to days disk and memory sizes. For me it seems VERY important to have a great API/functionality in PHP. I agree 100%. Some hosts will not enable anything more than the defaults and forget about asking them to.takes too much time. - -- ~Paul Nicholson It said uses Windows 98 or better, so I loaded Linux! Registered Linux User #183202 using Register Linux System # 81891 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE9dQ+YDyXNIUN3+UQRAsaPAKCeiGdfgJlZM4HosVRmksOndzYBAQCfdPde sLQ7iTJaUnHnvFTf3/G7gmQ= =7oIi -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Default extensions (was: mbstring)
On Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 03:52:50PM -0400, Dan Kalowsky wrote: If we should reduce number of modules built by default, 1st module should be MySQL. Removing MySQL does not cause any technical problems at all. I'll agree to that as well. +1 on removing --with-mysql as a default. Although realize I'm also +1 on removing any default modules that are not essential to PHP's running. After some thought, I think I agree with this (disable by default) approach, as well. For instance, if you want just PostgreSQL support, you not only have to --with-pgsql but also --disable-mysql[*]. I don't think there's any harm in asking MySQL users to --enable-mysql support if that's why they want, even if it is purportedly the most popular RDBMS with PHP. Chances are that those same users will likely need to set at least one other ./configure option, anyway. It's much easier, conceptually, to tell PHP users that everything is off by default than look at the './configure --help' output to figure out if you need to explicitly enable (or disable) something. Of course, I'm making general claims without providing any kind of reliable figures here. Perhaps it would be interesting to conduct some kind of anonymous PHP extension survey to see how many people configure / use which modules. [*] Not that MySQL support harms anything, but why compile something you're not going to use? -- Jon Parise ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) . Information Technology (2001) http://www.csh.rit.edu/~jon/ : Computer Science House Member -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Default extensions (was: mbstring)
Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world where sysadmins know how to read and listen to their users requests. That's why mysql for example is enabled by default. (or that's the main reasoning behind it at least) And we can't educate people or force them to anything either. Maybe we should add a general '--disable-all' option? --Jani p.s. I'm +1 for making everything not enabled by default.. -- On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Jon Parise wrote: On Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 03:52:50PM -0400, Dan Kalowsky wrote: If we should reduce number of modules built by default, 1st module should be MySQL. Removing MySQL does not cause any technical problems at all. I'll agree to that as well. +1 on removing --with-mysql as a default. Although realize I'm also +1 on removing any default modules that are not essential to PHP's running. After some thought, I think I agree with this (disable by default) approach, as well. For instance, if you want just PostgreSQL support, you not only have to --with-pgsql but also --disable-mysql[*]. I don't think there's any harm in asking MySQL users to --enable-mysql support if that's why they want, even if it is purportedly the most popular RDBMS with PHP. Chances are that those same users will likely need to set at least one other ./configure option, anyway. It's much easier, conceptually, to tell PHP users that everything is off by default than look at the './configure --help' output to figure out if you need to explicitly enable (or disable) something. Of course, I'm making general claims without providing any kind of reliable figures here. Perhaps it would be interesting to conduct some kind of anonymous PHP extension survey to see how many people configure / use which modules. [*] Not that MySQL support harms anything, but why compile something you're not going to use? -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] Default extensions (was: mbstring)
Unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world where sysadmins know how to read and listen to their users requests. That's why mysql for example is enabled by default. (or that's the main reasoning behind it at least) And we can't educate people or force them to anything either. Maybe we should add a general '--disable-all' option? i'm +1 for that if it means that first it disables everything, and then you enable stuff bit by bit... i still don't see why we shouldn't just disable everything by default and write a 'default configure' script... -- james -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Default extensions (was: mbstring)
i still don't see why we shouldn't just disable everything by default and write a 'default configure' script... I don't see why you're so upset that some extensions are enabled by default. The main rule so far was if the extension is stable and if it does not depend on external libraries it was enabled. This was done so people who get PHP through hosted services have the most PHP functionality available to them. This IMHO outweighs the slight inconvenience of adding a few configure options for people who compile PHP themselves. Edin -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Default extensions (was: mbstring)
On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Jon Parise wrote: JP On Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 03:52:50PM -0400, Dan Kalowsky wrote: JP JP If we should reduce number of modules built by default, 1st JP module should be MySQL. Removing MySQL does not cause any JP technical problems at all. JP JP I'll agree to that as well. +1 on removing --with-mysql as a default. JP Although realize I'm also +1 on removing any default modules that are not JP essential to PHP's running. JP JP After some thought, I think I agree with this (disable by default) JP approach, as well. For instance, if you want just PostgreSQL support, JP you not only have to --with-pgsql but also --disable-mysql[*]. Principally you may be correct - however doing this is more BC-breaking than the register global switch. Just imagine all the 'call to undefined function mysql_connect' bug reports. -- Melvyn. -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
