Re: [PHP] when clients go bad
Hi Jay and everyone, Sorry about the belated reply but i do believe that Work product for the customer belongs to the customer unless specifically stated differently in the contract does not apply to source code. Obviously we are all programmers and not lawyers in this group but i stand by this (until a lawyer corrects me ;-) ) Jay Blanchard wrote: [snip] ... [/snip] Work product for the customer belongs to the customer unless specifically stated differently in the contract. It is their intellectual property. I have coded both as an employee contractor for several years and it is always understood (unless the contract states differently) that the customer owns the work product. I have a couple of tools which I have developed over time, and I specifically exclude these from the work product in the contract if I expect to use them. If the customer chooses to argue on those I just do not use them on their project. Have you done anything special with regards to their site that you should have copyrighted? -- http://www.radinks.com/upload Drag and Drop File Uploader. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] when clients go bad
[snip] : As this is a very small market, for this one client I did not create a : contract - there was however a very detailed proposal which did not include : any source files. Whether it'll stand or not, we also had a verbal : agreement that they did not want any source files as at the time that we : began our relationship, I had informed them that the source files would : cost extra - the client at that time agreed that they did not want any : source code. [/snip] Ah, a he said / he said thing. I have a feeling that you may be creating some very bad blood in your small market if this client wants to smear you. Send them a letter to the affect that you verbally agreed that access to source code would cost extra and see where that lands you. Per our agreement on this date, the source code is available to you at the cost of foo Watch how quickly their memory clouds up. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] when clients go bad
Hi, I've done freelance web design for about 7 years now off and on. Just recently I've found myself dealing with the worst clients in the history of the world - ok, maybe not, but they've been pretty awful. After about a year of working together, the business relationship became so bad that we decided to part ways. They have now found themselves a beginner designer who whipped together a quick template site for them, but would now like access to all my source code (PHP, Flash, MySQL, and a little ASP) - without really giving any specific reasons. The site was hosted on a 3rd party shared server which the client had full access to, up until the point they terminated the hosting contract - now they're demanding the site on CD. As there is a very small web market in my area, I do not feel at all comfortable about just handing someone my source code. I know in the graphics realm, unless the contract specifically states that the original source files will be provided - they are not given. Has anyone had to deal with a similar situation? Any thoughts or opinions? Thanks -Tim -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] when clients go bad
[snip] ... [/snip] Work product for the customer belongs to the customer unless specifically stated differently in the contract. It is their intellectual property. I have coded both as an employee contractor for several years and it is always understood (unless the contract states differently) that the customer owns the work product. I have a couple of tools which I have developed over time, and I specifically exclude these from the work product in the contract if I expect to use them. If the customer chooses to argue on those I just do not use them on their project. Have you done anything special with regards to their site that you should have copyrighted? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] when clients go bad
From: Tim Thorburn [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've done freelance web design for about 7 years now off and on. Just recently I've found myself dealing with the worst clients in the history of the world - ok, maybe not, but they've been pretty awful. After about a year of working together, the business relationship became so bad that we decided to part ways. They have now found themselves a beginner designer who whipped together a quick template site for them, but would now like access to all my source code (PHP, Flash, MySQL, and a little ASP) - without really giving any specific reasons. The site was hosted on a 3rd party shared server which the client had full access to, up until the point they terminated the hosting contract - now they're demanding the site on CD. As there is a very small web market in my area, I do not feel at all comfortable about just handing someone my source code. I know in the graphics realm, unless the contract specifically states that the original source files will be provided - they are not given. Has anyone had to deal with a similar situation? Any thoughts or opinions? Just my personal opinion, of course, but you wrote the code while working for the business, right? It would seem like the code belongs to the business then, unless the contract says something specific. What reason do you have for retaining the code, other than just not wanting to give it to them? You may not have parted in the best ways, but you keeping the code is hurting the business. What's the reason for it? I would say you both retain rights to the code. Provide them a copy and nothing else. They need to sort it out on their own. You'll still retain rights to it also to use on other projects, if you can. This would be the honorable thing to do, in my opinion. ---John Holmes... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] when clients go bad
As this is a very small market, for this one client I did not create a contract - there was however a very detailed proposal which did not include any source files. Whether it'll stand or not, we also had a verbal agreement that they did not want any source files as at the time that we began our relationship, I had informed them that the source files would cost extra - the client at that time agreed that they did not want any source code. Basically what is happening is the new guy in town wants an easy break and to get a look at how a real designer does work. My thoughts on this matter are the client purchased the right to use the content management system that I created - not the actual content management system itself. I have no qualms over providing the client with the content and mailing lists stored in the database - as the textual content was all supplied by them, and the email addresses were collected for their purposes. I do take issue with handing over source code when in the beginning there was an understanding that they did not want source code - yet now when the new guy wants to learn something really quick, suddenly the source code is necessary. The sad part of the entire situation is that the code still remains on their 3rd party shared hosting providers server - its just that the new guy doesn't know how to use an FTP program to download. I do see what many of your are saying though - I will have to consider what to do further as from programmers I am getting an answer more leaning towards handing it all over, and from graphic artists I am getting a response saying that it's as much mine as a negative is to a photographer. This has certainly taught me the benefit of just hanging up when you get that bad vibe from the beginning. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] when clients go bad
On Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 05:31:52PM -0400, Tim Thorburn wrote: : : As this is a very small market, for this one client I did not create a : contract - there was however a very detailed proposal which did not include : any source files. Whether it'll stand or not, we also had a verbal : agreement that they did not want any source files as at the time that we : began our relationship, I had informed them that the source files would : cost extra - the client at that time agreed that they did not want any : source code. Sounds fine to me. Unless you signed a contract saying that your code belongs to someone else in exchange for something like money, then it's still your code. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
