RE: [PHP] Developer certifications
Developer Certifications only mean something if you are trying to get a government job. I have only been asked for sites that I have done and been asked once for a sample of code. I would go to another recruiter if I were you. Every place I have applied looked at urls and code functionality. I would never ever hire someone who had an MCSE. I look at skills that someone has, and coding style. I know high school students who program better than people in our nation's top computer courses. IMHO certifications are garbage. I would rather hire someone who can learn then someone who was spoon fed and just managed to take a stupid course that doesn't teach you what you need to know. BTW the microsoft certifications are worth nothing now, even to microsoft. Rick At 02:58 PM 3/8/01 -0500, Krznaric Michael wrote: OK now I'm pissed. I consider myself to be an above average programmer with extensive skill in PHP (amongst other things). NOW... I am not going to go jumping through hoops just because some ignorant/illiterate HR Recruiter/IS Head thinks that if you're not PHP certified by some company (eg. brainbench) you're not worth consideration. I REFUSE to do it. I WOULD NOT on my life take the MCSE of MCwhatever, however I may take the Cisco or the Oracle test. Things that require and properly compensate specialization I am open to. But things that test how well you can interact with a GUI (Windows) are bullshit. With respect to PHP there are other methods of determining ones competency with a particular language. What should be judged is a persons overall programming competency, or how well they can adapt to a new language, as oppose to specialization in PHP or PERL or . If you specialize in PHP, what are you going to do when there is no more PHP. (Not that we are expecting that). To summarize, judging a proficiency as it relates to a particular language shows the inexperience and ignorance of your future management. The bottom line is that "YOU DO NOT WANT TO WORK FOR PEOPLE LIKE THAT". I'm sure some experienced programmers around here know what I'm talking about. Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 1:33 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP] Developer certifications Does anyone know of a company which is offering or planning to offer PHP developer certifications? Arguments against certification programs aside[1], there are a lot of companies which prefer certified developers, even to the point of assuming a project done in ASP will be better than the same thing done in PHP simply because the ASP developers are Microsoft certified. While this seems like an interesting sideline for a company like Zend, I'm also somewhat curious about whether an "Open Source" test could be developed. It'd certainly have to be quite different from normal tests and that move away from easily memorized answers would probably be a very good thing. [1] We've all heard them before. I'm personally in favor only of certifications like certain devilishly hard Cisco exams which measure more than multiple-choice memory. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## # Rick St Jean, # [EMAIL PROTECTED] # President of Design Shark, # http://www.designshark.com/ # Quick Contact: http://www.designshark.com/messaging.ihtml # Tel: 905-684-2952 ## -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] Developer certifications
OK now I'm pissed. I consider myself to be an above average programmer with extensive skill in PHP (amongst other things). NOW... I am not going to go jumping through hoops just because some ignorant/illiterate HR Recruiter/IS Head thinks that if you're not PHP certified by some company (eg. brainbench) you're not worth consideration. I REFUSE to do it. I WOULD NOT on my life take the MCSE of MCwhatever, however I may take the Cisco or the Oracle test. Things that require and properly compensate specialization I am open to. But things that test how well you can interact with a GUI (Windows) are bullshit. With respect to PHP there are other methods of determining ones competency with a particular language. What should be judged is a persons overall programming competency, or how well they can adapt to a new language, as oppose to specialization in PHP or PERL or . If you specialize in PHP, what are you going to do when there is no more PHP. (Not that we are expecting that). To summarize, judging a proficiency as it relates to a particular language shows the inexperience and ignorance of your future management. The bottom line is that "YOU DO NOT WANT TO WORK FOR PEOPLE LIKE THAT". I'm sure some experienced programmers around here know what I'm talking about. Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 1:33 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PHP] Developer certifications Does anyone know of a company which is offering or planning to offer PHP developer certifications? Arguments against certification programs aside[1], there are a lot of companies which prefer certified developers, even to the point of assuming a project done in ASP will be better than the same thing done in PHP simply because the ASP developers are Microsoft certified. While this seems like an interesting sideline for a company like Zend, I'm also somewhat curious about whether an "Open Source" test could be developed. It'd certainly have to be quite different from normal tests and that move away from easily memorized answers would probably be a very good thing. [1] We've all heard them before. I'm personally in favor only of certifications like certain devilishly hard Cisco exams which measure more than multiple-choice memory. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] Developer certifications
Brainbench, www.brainbench.com offers many online certifications, including one in PHP. = Original Message From [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris Adams) = Does anyone know of a company which is offering or planning to offer PHP developer certifications? Arguments against certification programs aside[1], there are a lot of companies which prefer certified developers, even to the point of assuming a project done in ASP will be better than the same thing done in PHP simply because the ASP developers are Microsoft certified. While this seems like an interesting sideline for a company like Zend, I'm also somewhat curious about whether an "Open Source" test could be developed. It'd certainly have to be quite different from normal tests and that move away from easily memorized answers would probably be a very good thing. [1] We've all heard them before. I'm personally in favor only of certifications like certain devilishly hard Cisco exams which measure more than multiple-choice memory. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Developer certifications
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:54:07 +0200 (EET), Dragos Roua ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Hello, If you'll take a look at Brainbench.com you'll see a PHP4 cert exam there. As brainbench plan to become a paid service, their certifications may start worth something sometime. The brainbench exam is terrible. It's heavy on knowing the details of mssql functions and oci functions, and no points are given for speed. It's like an open book test so anybody can spend all day looking up the right answer, fill it out, and get a perfect score. If you just want to get the thing over with you can be honest and dump all the answers you don't know. Anyway, I think that as a benchmark it's garbage. A good test should stay away from most modules, and also include speed as a factor. Also It's way too easy to cheat on a test like this, so I don't think they should be taken too seriously no matter what. I can see requiring a person to pass a test like this before they get a job interview, but a company using the scores as a basis for hiring someone would be silly. My 2 cents anyway... Does anyone know of a company which is offering or planning to offer PHP developer certifications? Arguments against certification programs aside[1], there are a lot of companies which prefer certified developers, even to the point of assuming a project done in ASP will be better than the same thing done in PHP simply because the ASP developers are Microsoft certified. While this seems like an interesting sideline for a company like Zend, I'm also somewhat curious about whether an "Open Source" test could be developed. It'd certainly have to be quite different from normal tests and that move away from easily memorized answers would probably be a very good thing. [1] We've all heard them before. I'm personally in favor only of certifications like certain devilishly hard Cisco exams which measure more than multiple-choice memory. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: php-list- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Dragos Roua Mirabilis Media, http://www.portal.ro http://www.net-info.ro http://www.analyser.ro http://www.adserver.ro http://www.culinar.ro http://www.cartipostale.ro -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: php-list- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] Developer certifications
On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:16:41 -0600, kmurrah ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: actually, it IS a timed test, so you cannot simply "spend all day looking up the right answer." Heh, maybe not all day, but I took it twice to see if speed was getting counted in the score. The first time I sped thru it, and the second time I let sit there for what seemed like enough time to consult the manual or a book for each question and probably even write a sample program to check the output (whatever it would take to double check that I had the right answer). It scored me the same both times, and for this reason I decided that it was not a very good system. Besides, at this point somebody's probably posted the answers on the internet somewhere, making this thing completely useless. BTW, if you do want to take the test, today is the last day that the exam is offered for free ... tomorrow they start charging $20 or so for each exam -Original Message- From: Mark Maggelet [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 2:14 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP] Developer certifications On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:54:07 +0200 (EET), Dragos Roua ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Hello, If you'll take a look at Brainbench.com you'll see a PHP4 cert exam there. As brainbench plan to become a paid service, their certifications may start worth something sometime. The brainbench exam is terrible. It's heavy on knowing the details of mssql functions and oci functions, and no points are given for speed. It's like an open book test so anybody can spend all day looking up the right answer, fill it out, and get a perfect score. If you just want to get the thing over with you can be honest and dump all the answers you don't know. Anyway, I think that as a benchmark it's garbage. A good test should stay away from most modules, and also include speed as a factor. Also It's way too easy to cheat on a test like this, so I don't think they should be taken too seriously no matter what. I can see requiring a person to pass a test like this before they get a job interview, but a company using the scores as a basis for hiring someone would be silly. My 2 cents anyway... Does anyone know of a company which is offering or planning to offer PHP developer certifications? Arguments against certification programs aside[1], there are a lot of companies which prefer certified developers, even to the point of assuming a project done in ASP will be better than the same thing done in PHP simply because the ASP developers are Microsoft certified. While this seems like an interesting sideline for a company like Zend, I'm also somewhat curious about whether an "Open Source" test could be developed. It'd certainly have to be quite different from normal tests and that move away from easily memorized answers would probably be a very good thing. [1] We've all heard them before. I'm personally in favor only of certifications like certain devilishly hard Cisco exams which measure more than multiple-choice memory. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: php-list- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Dragos Roua Mirabilis Media, http://www.portal.ro http://www.net-info.ro http://www.analyser.ro http://www.adserver.ro http://www.culinar.ro http://www.cartipostale.ro -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: php-list- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: php-list- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: php-list- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
