Re: [PHP] best practice wrt multi-lingual websites, gettext() etc.
Bastien Koert wrote: No, as all of our users have to authorized to use the app, we store the desired language in a field in the user record. However, we also supply functionality via a drop down to allow the user to change the language if desired. Okay, that's very similar to my approach. For first-time users (of which I will have a lot), the language is set by their browser's language setting. Most users won't be changing it. I agree its difficult to separate the language and the code, but if you create xslt / html files for each language then its a much simpler matter, and far less resouce intensive, to direct the user to that page in their desired language. I leave that to Apache and the 'prefer-language' environment variable - I guess my main issue is to do with e.g. error-messages from PHP code (please complete this field correctly etc) and from javascript ditto. I guess for error-messages, it's back to gettext(), which does make some sense. Again, you and just use PHP and handle the labels and option (drop downs, radios etc) variables in real time but I never see the point in doing the same thing over and over again when its much cleaner (if more management intensive) to direct the user to a static resource and pass in an XML string with the data in it. Totally agree. At work, we don't use gettext() since : a) its an classic ASP shop ( :-( ), therefore no Linux and no PHP Ah. :-) b) the db current doesn't support multi-byte charsets The gettext db doesn't support UTF8??? Uh oh, that's a show-stopper. /Per Jessen, Zürich -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] best practice wrt multi-lingual websites, gettext() etc.
Per Jessen: The gettext db doesn't support UTF8??? Uh oh, that's a show-stopper. It supports. We use it. But only in MsgStr (translation), not in MsgId (original strings). -- toby http://toby.cz/ -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] best practice wrt multi-lingual websites, gettext() etc.
Jan Kaštánek wrote: Per Jessen: The gettext db doesn't support UTF8??? Uh oh, that's a show-stopper. It supports. We use it. But only in MsgStr (translation), not in MsgId (original strings). Yeah, I found out too. (from the GNU gettext docu). /Per Jessen, Zürich -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] best practice wrt multi-lingual websites, gettext() etc.
Sorry guys, I meant that the current application database is not configured for utf-8 Bastien Sent from my iPod On Jan 27, 2009, at 6:04, Per Jessen p...@computer.org wrote: Jan Kaštánek wrote: Per Jessen: The gettext db doesn't support UTF8??? Uh oh, that's a show-stopper. It supports. We use it. But only in MsgStr (translation), not in MsgId (original strings). Yeah, I found out too. (from the GNU gettext docu). /Per Jessen, Zürich -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] best practice wrt multi-lingual websites, gettext() etc.
Phpster wrote: Dunno if it's a best practice, but I store all the translations in the db for easy manipulation and extraction to a file for others to translate. That obviously involves both import and export utilities. Hi Bastien interesting - does this mean you're also coding for language-awareness yourself? I mean, you must have your own gettext() functionality? A number of pup apps take the approach of storing the label translations in variables inside language folders ( phpmyadmin has this ). That is also not a bad approach but is slightly slower and I can't help but feeling that serving up a static page created by code is a better solution. That's part of what we're thinking of doing, but it's difficult to separate the language and code completely. Which is where gettext() comes in. Does anyone on this list use gettext() ? /Per Jessen, Zürich -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] best practice wrt multi-lingual websites, gettext() etc.
On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Per Jessen p...@computer.org wrote: Phpster wrote: Dunno if it's a best practice, but I store all the translations in the db for easy manipulation and extraction to a file for others to translate. That obviously involves both import and export utilities. Hi Bastien interesting - does this mean you're also coding for language-awareness yourself? I mean, you must have your own gettext() functionality? A number of pup apps take the approach of storing the label translations in variables inside language folders ( phpmyadmin has this ). That is also not a bad approach but is slightly slower and I can't help but feeling that serving up a static page created by code is a better solution. That's part of what we're thinking of doing, but it's difficult to separate the language and code completely. Which is where gettext() comes in. Does anyone on this list use gettext() ? /Per Jessen, Zürich -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php No, as all of our users have to authorized to use the app, we store the desired language in a field in the user record. However, we also supply functionality via a drop down to allow the user to change the language if desired. I agree its difficult to separate the language and the code, but if you create xslt / html files for each language then its a much simpler matter, and far less resouce intensive, to direct the user to that page in their desired language. Again, you and just use PHP and handle the labels and option (drop downs, radios etc) variables in real time but I never see the point in doing the same thing over and over again when its much cleaner (if more management intensive) to direct the user to a static resource and pass in an XML string with the data in it. At work, we don't use gettext() since : a) its an classic ASP shop ( :-( ), therefore no Linux and no PHP b) the db current doesn't support multi-byte charsets My personal projects (or work on the side) are, of course, all php but so far there has been no requirements for multi language support, though the two projects that I am starting will both require it. Not sure if I will use gettext(), I will research some more, but it will definitely support multi-language and the db is unicode. -- Bastien Cat, the other other white meat
RE: [PHP] best practice wrt multi-lingual websites, gettext() etc.
-Original Message- From: Bastien Koert [mailto:phps...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 12:23 PM To: Per Jessen Cc: php-general@lists.php.net Subject: Re: [PHP] best practice wrt multi-lingual websites, gettext() etc. ---8--- At work, we don't use gettext() since : a) its an classic ASP shop ( :-( ), therefore no Linux and no PHP b) the db current doesn't support multi-byte charsets If database size (on disk, not spatially) isn't a concern, you might consider encoding the multi-byte strings, storing them encoded, and then decoding them when that language is requested. There will be overhead involved in the codec operations, obviously, but you could help to curb that with client- or server-side caching. Just a thought. It might not be feasible for your situation at all... // Todd -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] best practice wrt multi-lingual websites, gettext() etc.
Dunno if it's a best practice, but I store all the translations in the db for easy manipulation and extraction to a file for others to translate. That obviously involves both import and export utilities. At work we to the translation in real time thru a render page that combined the data for the form as well as the labels and buttons. Personally I disagree with this approach and feel that caching out the page to either HTML or XML is quicker and cleaner. But that's just me. A number of pup apps take the approach of storing the label translations in variables inside language folders ( phpmyadmin has this ). That is also not a bad approach but is slightly slower and I can't help but feeling that serving up a static page created by code is a better solution. It will be heavier on the management side, but my experience is that this mgmt activity drops off quickly after the first week or two of that form being in production. Nth Bastien Sent from my iPod On Jan 25, 2009, at 14:56, Per Jessen p...@computer.org wrote: I am writing a small(ish) site which will eventually need to be available in several different languages. This needs to more or less transparent to the user, so I am using Apaches content negotiation features, which is working very well. The issues arise once I start looking at PHP and Javascript code. I use JS for client side input (pre-)validation and increased usability, and error messages and such will obviously need to be language-sensitive. The same goes for the PHP code. With PHP, I've got gettext() for this sort of job, with javascript and some DHTML, I don't seem to have many options. One of my key concerns is - for the translation, I need to be able to wrap everything up and ship it off to a translator, perhaps via elance or similar. Does anyone have any best practice suggestions or comments in general? /Per Jessen, Zürich -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] best practice wrt multi-lingual websites, gettext() etc.
I can't help with the bits you are asking about, but I can give this advice: Don't rely solely on the Apache/browser content-negotiation, please. This one time... I was in Paris. I was at an Internet Cafe. I couldn't change browser settings. Some sites that I knew were available in English showed me only French, and no way to change it. Despite my using a computer with a French keyboard, my French language skills remained somewhere around the Bonjour. Parlez-vous Englias? level. -- Some people ask for gifts here. I just want you to buy an Indie CD for yourself: http://cdbaby.com/search/from/lynch -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] best practice wrt multi-lingual websites, gettext() etc.
Richard Lynch wrote: I can't help with the bits you are asking about, but I can give this advice: Don't rely solely on the Apache/browser content-negotiation, please. Don't worry, the site already has a user-override option. /Per Jessen, Zürich -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
