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Re: strong language for blockchain

[A. Laszlo Ross]

Speaking for myself… as a busted up former US Army special ops officer with a 
few good braincells… 

I can guarantee that this new us (us.new) will be both complete bullshit, a 
project for me to feel like an empowered black trans woman…. *and*….
wait for it…
Increasing the ability for the human race to collectively not kill all of each 
other off, not knowing our own code and data structures. And we signed it all 
away in a million EULAs and all we got was snapchat filters and shit…

We’re better than this. One Android install can be running a Picolisp 
interpreter with access to a large chunk of system resources. On up to 8 
billion current Android devices as an installed base which you can buy from 
google 44 cents American per install. Legally. (Yes I checked).

That’s a system that’s ripe for improvement.

Greybeard Six.. Out..


> On May 21, 2021, at 13:59, Yiorgos [George] Adamopoulos 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 8:51 PM  > wrote:
> So in my humble opinion, any real world application of blockchain technology 
> outside of anti-governmental currency is complete bullshit and usually just a 
> scheme to get money from fashionable investors and computer-illiterate 
> governments. Or a pet project for developers to feel clever about themselves 
> while wasting intelligence and energy on stock market games instead of 
> increasing quality of life for humanity.
> 
> 
> I am so copy-pasting this to eternity. Thank you! 
> -- 
> keep raising the bar || http://theheadphonesrule.dev/ 
> 

Re: strong language for blockchain

[A. Laszlo Ross]

@beneroth

I just read your full email. Wow, that’s really good…

Mind if I email you directly if I have a questions?

The v1 of this project I’m leading is going to be on a more traditional design 
but I really want a picoLisp/Android (iOS not necessary) called Universal 
Syntax. us.new will be the domain but nothing public yet, still classified in 
theory… lol

> On May 21, 2021, at 12:44, andr...@itship.ch wrote:
> 
> Hi SJain
> 
> There is no meaningful difference. It doesn't matter if you have a write-able 
> text file or a write-able binary - yes of course text is easier to edit than 
> binary, but that is security by obscurity at best (which is not security).
> All meaningful cryptographic algorithms are designed to not be weak even if 
> you know everything about the running system - except the encryption 
> keys/parameters, that is. Algorithms which derive   their security from 
> an attacker not knowing their inner workings are again basing their hopes on 
> security by obscurity, which is an illusion.
> 
> You talk about the security of a running system. If a malicious actor has 
> access on a system, be it with an account which has more permission rights 
> than it should have (or ways to break out of those restrictions), or even 
> physical access, then nothing can stop an determined attacker. You already 
> lost when the attacker obtained this level of access and you cannot trust the 
> system anymore (= you should wipe and re-install it).
> 
> A main problem with crypto is not weaknesses in the algorithms (though such 
> are hard to find, and sometimes only found by mathematicians after many years 
> of analysis), but often implementations have mistakes or the programmer 
> didn't understand the use of the algorithm correctly and missed some 
> fundamental detail. A language which makes understanding of the 
> implementation easier to grasp through having less language concepts, shorter 
> code to read and understand, and less "accidental complexity" (complexity 
> stemming from the implementation and not the task, e.g. manual memory 
> management) will be easier to check for implementation mistakes and easier to 
> correct them. So from that aspect, I think PicoLisp is probably better fitted 
> than a complex C++ implementation with a lot of accidental additional 
> complexity.
> 
> Another aspect is, that cryptographic computation is mostly numeric 
> computation, and that is not really the strength and intention of PicoLisp. 
> So with that in mind, PicoLisp is not so well suited for crypto calculations, 
> especially if you want to optimize for performance - but not all crypto use 
> cases desire performance, so it depends.
> 
> Regarding blockchain.. well the sole purpose of blockchain is to operate a 
> distribute database AND operate it by different people who actively mistrust 
> another. This makes it somewhat suited for crypto currencies like bitcoin, 
> but there is not really any other meaningful application. In nearly all 
> real-world scenarios, people can agree on a single group to be the masters of 
> a database and be trusted. Surely such a system warrants checks and balances, 
> but still you can then setup a central database operated by a single actor, 
> and this has just better performance, lower operating costs, lower 
> maintenance costs, just easier and better in all aspects. We have this with 
> all sorts of systems in private companies and on government levels, and even 
> on international agreed level even when the member parties not trust each 
> other but trust an institute they operate together and keep each each other 
> in check all the time.
> 
> So in my humble opinion, any real world application of blockchain technology 
> outside of anti-governmental currency is complete bullshit and usually just a 
> scheme to get money from fashionable investors and computer-illiterate 
> governments. Or a pet project for developers to feel clever about themselves 
> while wasting intelligence and energy on stock market games instead of 
> increasing quality of life for humanity.
> 
> Some believe they can do meaningful blockchain applications. I think they're 
> wrong. But even those people are completely dominated by 
> get-rich-quickly-schemers, see this twitter link and it's discussion by 
> insiders:
> 
> https://twitter.com/jonsyu/status/1389635626698297344 
> 
> tl;dr: it's all just scammers and inside traders.
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27061700 
> 
> tl;dr: confirm.
> Kind regards,
> - beneroth
> 
> 
> 
> On 21.05.21 18:43, SJain wrote:
>> There was a mail regarding picoLisp for blockchain. I am No expert in 
>> software, but I would have thought a compiled language with encryption, with 
>> full source code available, would be a more secure application than a 
>> interpreted language, requiring source code in readable and writable text 
>> 

Re: strong language for blockchain

[A. Laszlo Ross]

I’m not a lisp guy at all, so excuse me if this an utter noob question. But…

Couldn't picoLisp (or any Lisp really) be written as YAML? I’m not a YAML 
expert either but it seems like a CAR/CDR implementation at its core. No?

This could be strong for blockchain by handing the everyman a cleaner looking 
syntax to get power users to become legitimate Lisp operators. Actually make 
blockchain worth something more than the snake oil/shit show that it is at 
present. 

I think the world needs more IT greybeards… :)

> On May 21, 2021, at 12:44, andr...@itship.ch wrote:
> 
> Hi SJain
> 
> There is no meaningful difference. It doesn't matter if you have a write-able 
> text file or a write-able binary - yes of course text is easier to edit than 
> binary, but that is security by obscurity at best (which is not security).
> All meaningful cryptographic algorithms are designed to not be weak even if 
> you know everything about the running system - except the encryption 
> keys/parameters, that is. Algorithms which derive   their security from 
> an attacker not knowing their inner workings are again basing their hopes on 
> security by obscurity, which is an illusion.
> 
> You talk about the security of a running system. If a malicious actor has 
> access on a system, be it with an account which has more permission rights 
> than it should have (or ways to break out of those restrictions), or even 
> physical access, then nothing can stop an determined attacker. You already 
> lost when the attacker obtained this level of access and you cannot trust the 
> system anymore (= you should wipe and re-install it).
> 
> A main problem with crypto is not weaknesses in the algorithms (though such 
> are hard to find, and sometimes only found by mathematicians after many years 
> of analysis), but often implementations have mistakes or the programmer 
> didn't understand the use of the algorithm correctly and missed some 
> fundamental detail. A language which makes understanding of the 
> implementation easier to grasp through having less language concepts, shorter 
> code to read and understand, and less "accidental complexity" (complexity 
> stemming from the implementation and not the task, e.g. manual memory 
> management) will be easier to check for implementation mistakes and easier to 
> correct them. So from that aspect, I think PicoLisp is probably better fitted 
> than a complex C++ implementation with a lot of accidental additional 
> complexity.
> 
> Another aspect is, that cryptographic computation is mostly numeric 
> computation, and that is not really the strength and intention of PicoLisp. 
> So with that in mind, PicoLisp is not so well suited for crypto calculations, 
> especially if you want to optimize for performance - but not all crypto use 
> cases desire performance, so it depends.
> 
> Regarding blockchain.. well the sole purpose of blockchain is to operate a 
> distribute database AND operate it by different people who actively mistrust 
> another. This makes it somewhat suited for crypto currencies like bitcoin, 
> but there is not really any other meaningful application. In nearly all 
> real-world scenarios, people can agree on a single group to be the masters of 
> a database and be trusted. Surely such a system warrants checks and balances, 
> but still you can then setup a central database operated by a single actor, 
> and this has just better performance, lower operating costs, lower 
> maintenance costs, just easier and better in all aspects. We have this with 
> all sorts of systems in private companies and on government levels, and even 
> on international agreed level even when the member parties not trust each 
> other but trust an institute they operate together and keep each each other 
> in check all the time.
> 
> So in my humble opinion, any real world application of blockchain technology 
> outside of anti-governmental currency is complete bullshit and usually just a 
> scheme to get money from fashionable investors and computer-illiterate 
> governments. Or a pet project for developers to feel clever about themselves 
> while wasting intelligence and energy on stock market games instead of 
> increasing quality of life for humanity.
> 
> Some believe they can do meaningful blockchain applications. I think they're 
> wrong. But even those people are completely dominated by 
> get-rich-quickly-schemers, see this twitter link and it's discussion by 
> insiders:
> 
> https://twitter.com/jonsyu/status/1389635626698297344 
> 
> tl;dr: it's all just scammers and inside traders.
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27061700 
> 
> tl;dr: confirm.
> Kind regards,
> - beneroth
> 
> 
> 
> On 21.05.21 18:43, SJain wrote:
>> There was a mail regarding picoLisp for blockchain. I am No expert in 
>> software, but I would have thought a compiled language with encryption, with 
>> 

Re: Is Picolisp strong like a bear?

[A. Laszlo Ross]

Is a joke?

You’re n ame Burger? Like Jew?

It’s a nice

> On May 20, 2021, at 15:04, A. Laszlo Ross  wrote:
> 
> but i need for android.
> 
> why picolisp better than java?
> 
> this for Obama Java Fone with Mrs Ellison and Osama.
> 
> 
> 
> ~~~
> Note: I am in the process of automating some aspects of my personal and 
> professional life.
> 
> This message may or may not be automated. Here’s a random emoji:
> 
> ~~~
> 
>> On May 20, 2021, at 13:57, Alexander Burger  wrote:
>> 
>> On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 01:05:54PM -0500, A. Laszlo Ross wrote:
>>> I want strongest language for Russian programming.
>> 
>> That's PicoLisp for sure! ;)
>> 
>> ☺/ A!ex
>> 
>> -- 
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe


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Re: Is Picolisp strong like a bear?

[A. Laszlo Ross]

How I hear consultants with picolidp??? Anroid is google programming 
language!

> On May 20, 2021, at 15:04, A. Laszlo Ross  wrote:
> 
> but i need for android.
> 
> why picolisp better than java?
> 
> this for Obama Java Fone with Mrs Ellison and Osama.
> 
> 
> 
> ~~~
> Note: I am in the process of automating some aspects of my personal and 
> professional life.
> 
> This message may or may not be automated. Here’s a random emoji:
> 
> ~~~
> 
>> On May 20, 2021, at 13:57, Alexander Burger  wrote:
>> 
>> On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 01:05:54PM -0500, A. Laszlo Ross wrote:
>>> I want strongest language for Russian programming.
>> 
>> That's PicoLisp for sure! ;)
>> 
>> ☺/ A!ex
>> 
>> -- 
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe


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Re: Is Picolisp strong like a bear?

[A. Laszlo Ross]

but i need for android.

why picolisp better than java?

this for Obama Java Fone with Mrs Ellison and Osama.



~~~
Note: I am in the process of automating some aspects of my personal and 
professional life.

This message may or may not be automated. Here’s a random emoji:

~~~

> On May 20, 2021, at 13:57, Alexander Burger  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 01:05:54PM -0500, A. Laszlo Ross wrote:
>> I want strongest language for Russian programming.
> 
> That's PicoLisp for sure! ;)
> 
> ☺/ A!ex
> 
> -- 
> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe


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Is Picolisp strong like a bear?

[A. Laszlo Ross]

I want strongest language for Russian programming.

Must run on network with LTE and Android. Train consultants first for only 4 
years.

New Telecom company in Siberia and Russia metropolitan area. AAA+ service.

Should we use Picolisp for raspberry pi or Indian coder PHP platform LAMP full 
stack ninja?

> On May 17, 2021, at 07:59, A. Laszlo Ross  wrote:
> 
> anyone ever write a picolisp simple email/messaging server?
> 
> just curious because this reminded me...
> 
> 
> 
> ~~~
> Note: I am in the process of automating some aspects of my personal and 
> professional life.
> 
> This message may or may not be automated. Here’s a random emoji:
> 
> ~~~
> 
>> On May 17, 2021, at 07:43, Karl-Heinz Kreis  wrote:
>> 
>> I had to retrieve that mail from the spam-folder at the server...
>> 
>> Karl-Heinz 
>> 
>> 
>>> I also didn’t receive email from SJain. Did the mail program abort
>>> while sending some mail?
>>> 
>>> John
>>> 
>>>> On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 07:26 Alexander Burger 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 11:38:05AM +0200, Alexander Burger wrote:  
>>>>> It is frustrating that E-Mail is so unreliable.  
>>>> 
>>>> I wonder whether a #picolisp group in Matrix would be better in the
>>>> long range.
>>>> 
>>>> ☺/ A!ex
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>>>> 
>> 


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Re: math.l library in picoLisp

[A. Laszlo Ross]

anyone ever write a picolisp simple email/messaging server?

just curious because this reminded me...



~~~
Note: I am in the process of automating some aspects of my personal and 
professional life.

This message may or may not be automated. Here’s a random emoji:

~~~

> On May 17, 2021, at 07:43, Karl-Heinz Kreis  wrote:
> 
> I had to retrieve that mail from the spam-folder at the server...
> 
> Karl-Heinz 
> 
> 
>> I also didn’t receive email from SJain. Did the mail program abort
>> while sending some mail?
>> 
>> John
>> 
>>> On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 07:26 Alexander Burger 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 11:38:05AM +0200, Alexander Burger wrote:  
 It is frustrating that E-Mail is so unreliable.  
>>> 
>>> I wonder whether a #picolisp group in Matrix would be better in the
>>> long range.
>>> 
>>> ☺/ A!ex
>>> 
>>> --
>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
>>> 
> 


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Re: Status of Picolisp 32-bit (was Re: Installing Pilbox on arm 32)

[A. Laszlo Ross]

Looking for some consultants for a possible PicoLisp prototype of a blockchain. 
It’ a collaboration between  a Swiss cantons and one of the large US States. 
Think cowboys… lol. 

At this point I’m checking bill rates and availability. Anyone on the GSA 
pre-clear list by chance?

Cheers,
Alex Ross
PMO Lead
us.new
+1.213.500.5925


> On May 7, 2021, at 10:02, A. Laszlo Ross  wrote:
> 
> Oh, wow, I didn’t know there was a PilOS. I’m a picolisp noob but that might 
> be perfect for an upcoming IoT type project.
> 
> The web page said there’s no network stack so I’d have to add that. 
> 
> Is it written in C? Assembly? Something else?
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 7, 2021, at 09:52, Daniel Perron <61du...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Thank you for the precisions and Picolisp, it is a very nice system.
>> 
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021, 12:11 AM Alexander Burger > <mailto:abu@software-labde>> wrote:
>> Hi Daniel,
>> 
>> > In that case, what is the status of Picolisp 32-bit?
>> > I read in the doc in many places "64-bit version only". Is Picolisp 32-bit
>> > deprecated?
>> 
>> All PicoLisp versions except pil21 (e.g. pil32, pil64, miniPicoLisp, 
>> ErsatzLisp,
>> PilMCU and PilOS) are still around, but I don't actively maintain them any 
>> more.
>> 
>> 
>> > If so, it creates a cognitive dissonance in my mind. A system
>> > created to be small and fast runs only on 64-bit?
>> 
>> I believe this is no contradiction. The system is still small and fast, just 
>> the
>> pointer size is 64 instead of 32 bits.
>> 
>> The trend is towards 64 bits, in servers, desktops, notebooks, smartphones 
>> and
>> even single-board computers (RasPi). Only small embedded systems remain, and
>> there just miniPicoLisp makes sense.
>> 
>> BTW, the "pico" in the name never meant the system size (you can build large
>> applications with PicoLisp), but the small number of basic concepts.
>> 
>> ☺/ A!ex
>> 
>> -- 
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de 
>> <mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de>?subject=Unsubscribe

Re: Status of Picolisp 32-bit (was Re: Installing Pilbox on arm 32)

[A. Laszlo Ross]

Oh, wow, I didn’t know there was a PilOS. I’m a picolisp noob but that might be 
perfect for an upcoming IoT type project.

The web page said there’s no network stack so I’d have to add that. 

Is it written in C? Assembly? Something else?



> On May 7, 2021, at 09:52, Daniel Perron <61du...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Thank you for the precisions and Picolisp, it is a very nice system.
> 
>> On Fri, May 7, 2021, 12:11 AM Alexander Burger  wrote:
>> Hi Daniel,
>> 
>> > In that case, what is the status of Picolisp 32-bit?
>> > I read in the doc in many places "64-bit version only". Is Picolisp 32-bit
>> > deprecated?
>> 
>> All PicoLisp versions except pil21 (e.g. pil32, pil64, miniPicoLisp, 
>> ErsatzLisp,
>> PilMCU and PilOS) are still around, but I don't actively maintain them any 
>> more.
>> 
>> 
>> > If so, it creates a cognitive dissonance in my mind. A system
>> > created to be small and fast runs only on 64-bit?
>> 
>> I believe this is no contradiction. The system is still small and fast, just 
>> the
>> pointer size is 64 instead of 32 bits.
>> 
>> The trend is towards 64 bits, in servers, desktops, notebooks, smartphones 
>> and
>> even single-board computers (RasPi). Only small embedded systems remain, and
>> there just miniPicoLisp makes sense.
>> 
>> BTW, the "pico" in the name never meant the system size (you can build large
>> applications with PicoLisp), but the small number of basic concepts.
>> 
>> ☺/ A!ex
>> 
>> -- 
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe

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