Re: Pil21 can bootstrap
Hi Alexander (Burger), Congratulations and thanks for the fish ^W^W pil21. . Best Regards, Alexander Am 17. Mai 2020 13:04:52 MESZ schrieb Alexander Burger : >Hi all, > >a short note about the Pil21 status: > >It can now bootstrap by itself, meaning that it does no longer need >another >PicoLisp to build the *.ll and *.bc files from the sources. > >☺/ A!ex > >-- >UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe -- You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it. Scott McNealy 1999
Re: Do free Open Source Foundation's Software Stacks fall under US Export Law?
Can't you simply bounce his mails? I'm afraid handing matters over to the
police isn't going to be effective.
Am 16. Mai 2020 12:42:17 MESZ schrieb Alexander Burger :
>On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 04:06:47PM +0200, pd wrote:
>> Thanks Alex for your absolute amazing and beautiful work and
>dedication.
>
>Thank you all too! For me it is a lot of fun :)
>
>
>> Fortunately noise is over and list returns to pure signal.
>
>Yes indeed!
>
>Unfortunately for me it is not over. Guido keeps on attacking me by PM.
>He calls
>me "very very stupid to use LLVM", and the members of this thread
>"complete
>idiots" ("Volldeppen").
>
>I can't help him ...
>
>☺/ A!ex
>
>--
>UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
--
You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it.
Scott McNealy 1999
Re: divmod?
Isn't Christian Schafmeister the guy attempting to make a Common Lisp frontend to the dreaded LLVM infrastructure? SCNR Am 3. Mai 2020 23:17:49 MESZ schrieb Guido Stepken : >Plain wrong. Christian Schafmeister will teach you the use of Lisp in >high(est) end number crunching: > >https://youtube.com/watch?v=8X69_42Mj-g > >He's the Super Brain behind all the compute stuff of that famous >Genomic >Reasearch Institute in NY (proteine folding ... Corona) ... ;-) > >In fact, he's using the AI Lisp language to compose all those mighty >C/C++ >libraries to new libraries. Means: His Lisp AI is (re-)writing >software. > >I fear, you're a decade behind of what's 'state of the art' in >programming! >Lisp, until today, is a highly important language. It also optimizes >machine code within GCC, generating highest efficient machine code for >any >CPU in the world - see MELT, a Lisp dialect: > >http://www.starynkevitch.net/Basile/gcc-melt/ > >Binding GSL (GNU Scientific Library) and magic OpenBLAS (searching >through >huge graph structures in zero time) to PicoLisp is piece of cake. > >https://picolisp.com/wiki/?interfacing > >Automated marshalling and unmarshalling C interfaces in Lisp is a >nobrainer, simply extract .c header files. Finished! > >Have fun! > >Best regards, Guido Stepken > >Am Sonntag, 3. Mai 2020 schrieb John Duncan : >> For heavy number crunching, picolisp might not be appropriate. In >modern >systems you would probably want something that used the vector >instructions. But if it’s a few divisions here and there, you’d be >surprised how little the efficiency in clock cycles matters anymore. >> On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 14:28 Wilhelm Fitzpatrick >wrote: >>> >>> >> I'm not finding such a thing in the function reference, but >asking on >the off chance I'm >>> >> overlooking it. Is there a way in Picolisp to get a division >result >and remainder as a single >>> >> operation? >>> > Sure >>> > http://ix.io/2kBM >>> >>> Thanks! But as Alex intuited, I was looking to leverage the >underlying >>> processor operation that returns both parts of the integer divide in >a >>> single operation. But if I follow his response correctly, the cost >of >>> building the memory representation of the answer swamps the actual >cost >>> of the divide, and that's going to be similar regardless of if the >>> divide and remainder wind up being one machine instruction or two. >>> >>> -wilhelm >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe >> >> -- >> John Duncan -- You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it. Scott McNealy 1999
Re: Pil21 Status
\0/. 濾 Am 1. Mai 2020 15:41:21 MESZ schrieb Alexander Burger : >Hi all, > >pil21 reached the first milestone: >It passes the bignum tests in @misc/bigtest :) > >Next goal is self-bootstrap > >☺/ A!ex > >-- >UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe -- You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it. Scott McNealy 1999
Re: PilCon 2020
Hi Christophe, Thanks for responding. Packages has 71 and I do not have the resources to compile 75 for myself. And what should I do in the (unlikely) case that I would want to ask a question or even (The spectre of John McCarthy forbid) hold a presentation myself? Am 28. April 2020 08:42:58 MESZ schrieb Jean-Christophe Helary : > > >> On Apr 28, 2020, at 15:20, Alexander Shendi (Web.DE) > wrote: >> >> Dear List, >> >> My experience using Jitsi with Firefox wasn't good. I tried to attend >an online meeting with FF 71 and I managed to crash the server. >Apparently this is Firefox's fault though for not supporting all >necessary features of WebRTC. > >Try 75. Maybe it is better. > >> I'd like to use the Jitsi Android app, but I don't know how to use an >USB headset with either my phone or a tablet. Maybe an analog headphone >and the device's microphone is the way to go. > >An analog headphone should be sufficient. But if you mute your mike >during the presentations, there is no real need for a headphone. > > >Jean-Christophe Helary >--- >http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune > > > >-- >UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe -- You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it. Scott McNealy 1999
Re: PilCon 2020
Dear List,
My experience using Jitsi with Firefox wasn't good. I tried to attend an online
meeting with FF 71 and I managed to crash the server. Apparently this is
Firefox's fault though for not supporting all necessary features of WebRTC.
Unfortunately for me there is no alternative ATM. NetBSD has only FF in
packages (both on aarch64 and amd64). I'd like to use the Jitsi Android app,
but I don't know how to use an USB headset with either my phone or a tablet.
Maybe an analog headphone and the device's microphone is the way to go.
I don't feel up to compiling Chrom{e, ium} myself.
I would be grateful for any hints. TIA.
Love,
-- Alexander
Am 28. April 2020 07:38:06 MESZ schrieb Alexander Burger :
>Hi Tomas,
>
>> > Would it make sense to plan an online conference instead? We are
>playing around
>> > with Jitsi Meet currently. Any thoughts?
>>
>> I tried Jitsi and it seems broken on NixOS (throwing some Java
>exception
>> about a DNS class not found).
>
>We used Jitsi a lot during the last weeks. I have tried up to only 5
>members so
>far, but performance was good. Beneroth has set up his own server. I
>don't know
>how well it scales for more members, and what can be done to optimize
>it.
>
>> Does Jitsi also work in Firefox?
>
>I always used the Jitsi Meet app on Android for audio and video, and
>sometimes
>additionally Firefox on a Debian PC to demonstrate things on a shared
>screen.
>
>☺/ A!ex
>
>--
>UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
--
You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it.
Scott McNealy 1999
Re: PilCon 2020
Hi, I would actually prefer to attend in person, but given the circumstances, +1 for an online event. Best Regards, -- Alexander Am 22. April 2020 22:44:35 MESZ schrieb Brian Cleary : >+1 for online lurker. I'd also be happy to participate any load tests >before hand. > >On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 1:37 PM r cs wrote: > >> +1 for online too 8-) >> >> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 12:33 PM C K Kashyap >wrote: >> >>> +1 for online :) >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 4:48 AM David Bloom >wrote: >>> +1 lurker interested in an online conference. While it is >disappointing to not be able to meet people in person it seems that attendance >will be dramatically increased. Happy to help with testing online tools if >needed. On Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 1:35 AM Jean-Christophe Helary < jean.christophe.hel...@traduction-libre.org> wrote: > > > > On Apr 22, 2020, at 14:00, Alexander Burger > > wrote: > > > > Would it make sense to plan an online conference instead? We are > playing around > > with Jitsi Meet currently. Any thoughts? > > You must be aware that the FSF's LibrePlanet was moved from IRL to > Jisti (and others) in just a few days of time. In my personal >business, > I've moved all my IRL interactions to Jisti. I find it very >practical. > > Last night I just had a QA/live support session for a piece of >free > software that I'm involved with. There were setting issues that >probably > were personal technical issues but otherwise the meeting went very >smoothly. > > The ability to stream Youtube for already registered presentations >is > something that could definitely be of use in a conference, leaving >the live > part for the Q > > Also, as a "lurker" and very amateur programer, I would never >think of > joining PilCon in Germany, but I'd love to attend if it were >online. I am > sure a lot of people interested in other dialects of Lisp would >find it > easier to join too. > > > Jean-Christophe Helary > --- > http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune > > > > -- > UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subjectUnsubscribe > >> >> -- >> *Níl aon tinteán mar do thinteán féin. *[Irish Gaelic] >> (There is no fireside like your own fireside.) >> >> >> -- You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it. Scott McNealy 1999
Re: Stop using US controlled software stacks!!!
Oh dear, Since you (Guido Stepken) are already ranting about US software stacks (e.g. LLVM), I will take the opportunity to add my 2 Euro-cents. What about your operatjng system? I presume you are using Linux. Have you yet audited the ca. 5 MLoc of code that are the Linux kernel? Other operating systems (the BSDs all hail from the US, except OpenBSD, which is from Canada, but which is well in the US and Her Majesty's Government sphere of influence) have similar problems. Not to mention the hardware, which for the popular modern amd64 platform also comes from the US and contains numerous "security" backdoor. So unless you run your own compiler on your own OS on custom built hardware, it is hard to get the degree of security that you seem to want. Bummer, but we'll somehow have to put up with it. Am 18. April 2020 22:46:14 MESZ schrieb Guido Stepken : >Hi Alex! > >"completely replace it with pil21" ... (LLVM based) > >Using US software stacks, even if open source and under a free license >are >not tolerable. For any nation, for any kind of project. > >US Cloud Act, Patriot Act, by law, force US companies as well US >organisations in general, such as Linux Foundation as well as Apache >Foundation and LLVM Foundation to comply with US law. > >Here's a possible outcome: >https://www.infoq.com/news/2016/06/visual-cpp-telemetry/ > >The compiler itself becomes a NSA/CIA spy tool. With (compressed) over >420 >megabytes of source code size for LLVM, world does not have the >slightest >chance to do any security review on that software stack. > >And that's what stupid cowboys are hoping for: Not only creating >Lock-In - >as well as legal problems - on APIs of all kinds (see Oracle-Google >lawsuit) with Apache/Linux/LLVM/... Foundations, stupid cowboys are >also >injecting spy code into in all kinds of US controlled libraries (NPM >now is >Microsoft/Github owned) and especially compilers, development tools. > >My urgent advice: Stay with your own x64 compiler, forget about >everything >that is coming from or is directed by US companies, US foundations of >any >kind. > >Switch to LLVM with pil21 and i cannot recommend you and your (until >today: >trustworthy) software stack any longer for any kinds of projects. > >And i can assure you: My influence is **much bigger** than you might >think! >Stop that, immediately! > >Use C99 compilers, that are small enough to be security reviewed, such >as >TCC. > >Best regards, Guido Stepken > >Am Samstag, 18. April 2020 schrieb Alexander Burger >: >> Hi Andras, >> >>> If you are interested I have patched the 19.12 32bit sources to >compile >without GCC. >>> I have attached the changed files: pico.h, main.c, apply.c and >flow.c >> >> Thanks a lot! >> >> >>> Since clang does not support variable length array in structures I >allocate the bindFrame >>> with alloca() and provided a macro in pico.h to ease this: >allocFrame(). >>> >>> I know that the 32bit version is not the mainstream version, but >feel >free to >>> abuse the patches. >> >> Cool! >> >> As I'm concentrating on pil21, I'm glad if development and >maintenance of >pil32, >> mini and/or ersatz is taken care of by others. Until it is replaced >by >pil21 >> next year, I will do necessary fixes to pil64 and then - if all goes >well >- >> completely replace it with pil21. >> >> Let's hope that no major problems pop up ... ;) >> >> ☺/ A!ex >> >> >> -- >> UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe >> >> -- You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it. Scott McNealy 1999
Re: Latest pil21 under OpenBSD 6.6-STABLE
The patches are already in the latest pil21.tgz. You only need to edit the MAIN variable in the Makefile to include "-L/usr/local/lib" and to delete "-ldl". Other prerequisites are: 1. A working pil64 installation. 2. pil in you PATH 3. The llvm and libffi packages installed. Best Regards, Alexander Am 16. April 2020 20:35:30 MESZ schrieb r...@tamos.net: >On Wed, 15 Apr 2020 00:55 -04:00, Alexander Burger wrote: >> Hi Alexander, >> >> > The latest pil21 (with I/O fns) under OpenBSD/amd64 6.6-STABLE (and >most probably other BSD-platforms) requires patches to build lib.bc >from lib.c. It isn't very much, 5 lines or so. >> > >> > If there is any interest, let me know, I can send the changes >tomorrow. I'm too tired right now. >> >> Yes, please. Thanks! > >I second that. And thank you, both Alexanders! :) > >-- >UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe -- You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it. Scott McNealy 1999
Latest pil21 under OpenBSD 6.6-STABLE
Dear List, The latest pil21 (with I/O fns) under OpenBSD/amd64 6.6-STABLE (and most probably other BSD-platforms) requires patches to build lib.bc from lib.c. It isn't very much, 5 lines or so. If there is any interest, let me know, I can send the changes tomorrow. I'm too tired right now. Best Regards, Alexander -- You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it. Scott McNealy 1999
Pil21 on OpenBSD 6.6-STABLE
To whom it may concern, I have been able to build pil21 under OpenBSD 6.6-STABLE with LLVM 8.0.1. I had to rebuild the bitcode files, as they were built with 9.0.x. Best Regards, Alexander Am 12. April 2020 17:05:47 MESZ schrieb "Alexander Shendi (Web.DE)" : >Hi again, > >Sorry to follow up on my own post, but with some hacking at lib.c and >changing the Makefile I was able to bootstrap a working picolisp >binary. > >However I can't seem to be able to regenerate the *.bc files from the >Lisp files. Two questions: > >1. would anyone be interested in the changes I made? And who is the >maintainer? >2. Any suggestions how to rebuild the system? Do I need a standard >picolisp (i.e. http://software-lab.de/picoLisp.tgz) install? > >Many thanks in advance, > >Alexander > >Am 12. April 2020 15:16:30 MESZ schrieb "Alexander Shendi (Web.DE)" >: >>Dear Lisp, >> >>Happy Easter! >> >>I have tried building pil21 under NetBSD 9/aarch64. I tried to use >>Ersatz-picolisp under OpenJDK8 to generate the *.ll files to bootstrap >>pil21, but it seems some language constructs used in llvm.l are not >>supported. >> >>What is the best way to work around thus? TIA. >> >>Best Regards and stay safe, >> >>Alexander >> >> >>-- >>You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it. >> >>Scott McNealy 1999 > >-- >You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it. > >Scott McNealy 1999 -- You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it. Scott McNealy 1999
Re: Pil21 on NetBSD9/aarch64
Hi, The build of the Emu picolisp variant does not work for me. It first compiles a program called sysdefs, then crashes because it can't find emu.code.l. If you do . /sysdefs > emu.code.l the it fails with another error. Best Regards, Alexander Am 12. April 2020 15:31:50 MESZ schrieb Alexander Burger : >Hi Alexander, > >> I have tried building pil21 under NetBSD 9/aarch64. I tried to use >> Ersatz-picolisp under OpenJDK8 to generate the *.ll files to >bootstrap pil21, >> but it seems some language constructs used in llvm.l are not >supported. > >Unfortunately, neither Ersatz, nor pil32 or miniPicoLisp can be used to >bootstrap pil21. It needs the namespaces (and possibly other things) >from pil64. > >Not sure ATM whether NetBSD is supported in pil64's build process. But >you could >try to build 'emu' > > (cd src64; make emu) > >☺/ A!ex > >-- >UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe -- You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it. Scott McNealy 1999
Re: Pil21 on NetBSD9/aarch64
Hi all 1. Yes, Makefile and lib.c as included in pil21/src. 2. No, I built pil21/bin/picolisp directly. The two bitcode files base.bc and ext.bc were already included and I was able to build lib.bc from the modified lib.c (with the clang C compiler). After that I just typed: touch *.bc ; make. The problem is that I can't regenerate the bitcode files from the Lisp files. Otherwise the executable seems to work fine. The question is: Do you or the current maintainer want these changes? Best Regards, Alexander Am 12. April 2020 17:42:47 MESZ schrieb Alexander Burger : >Hi Alexander, > >> Sorry to follow up on my own post, but with some hacking at lib.c and >changing >> the Makefile I was able to bootstrap a working picolisp binary. > >The lib.c and Makefile in pil21/src/? So it worked with emu? > > >> However I can't seem to be able to regenerate the *.bc files from the >Lisp files. Two questions: >> >> 1. would anyone be interested in the changes I made? And who is the >maintainer? > >What changes are those? > >> 2. Any suggestions how to rebuild the system? Do I need a standard >picolisp (i.e. http://software-lab.de/picoLisp.tgz) install? > >Yes, download and unpack that TGZ, then "make emu" in the src64/ >directory. >Then, in pil21/src, change the path to 'pil' to the proper path, e.g > > $ tar xvfz picoLisp.tgz > $ (cd picoLisp/src64; make emu) > $ cd pil21/src/ > >Change the two "pil" calls to "../../picoLisp/pil", or plant a symbolic >link to that 'pil' etc. > > $ make > >☺/ A!ex > > >-- >UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe -- You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it. Scott McNealy 1999
Re: Pil21 on NetBSD9/aarch64
Hi again, Sorry to follow up on my own post, but with some hacking at lib.c and changing the Makefile I was able to bootstrap a working picolisp binary. However I can't seem to be able to regenerate the *.bc files from the Lisp files. Two questions: 1. would anyone be interested in the changes I made? And who is the maintainer? 2. Any suggestions how to rebuild the system? Do I need a standard picolisp (i.e. http://software-lab.de/picoLisp.tgz) install? Many thanks in advance, Alexander Am 12. April 2020 15:16:30 MESZ schrieb "Alexander Shendi (Web.DE)" : >Dear Lisp, > >Happy Easter! > >I have tried building pil21 under NetBSD 9/aarch64. I tried to use >Ersatz-picolisp under OpenJDK8 to generate the *.ll files to bootstrap >pil21, but it seems some language constructs used in llvm.l are not >supported. > >What is the best way to work around thus? TIA. > >Best Regards and stay safe, > >Alexander > > >-- >You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it. > >Scott McNealy 1999 -- You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it. Scott McNealy 1999
Pil21 on NetBSD9/aarch64
Dear Lisp, Happy Easter! I have tried building pil21 under NetBSD 9/aarch64. I tried to use Ersatz-picolisp under OpenJDK8 to generate the *.ll files to bootstrap pil21, but it seems some language constructs used in llvm.l are not supported. What is the best way to work around thus? TIA. Best Regards and stay safe, Alexander -- You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it. Scott McNealy 1999
Re: Proposal: PilCon 2020
Dear List, dear Alexander Burger, Happy Boxing Day! I would love to attend. However I don't actively use Picolisp right now. If there is enough space, I would love to attend for three days (Monday - (optional) Wednesday) arriving on Sunday. I would set the probability of my attending at 95%. If any of you has a suggestion for a Picolisp project that I could evolve into a Pilcon 2020 presentation, I would be grateful. BTW is Picolisp already ported to NetBSD/arm64? Have a nice day, Alexander Am 25. Dezember 2019 10:56:30 MEZ schrieb Alexander Burger : >Hi all, > >a merry Christmas to everybody! o/ > > >Since a few weeks we were discussing in the #picolisp IRC channel about >holding >a PicoLisp Conference in Langweid / Germany next year. > >It would be on July 27th (Mon), 28th (Tue), and - if necessary - 29th. >I can get >a room and equipment for about 30 people, in "Kulturbahnhof", the old >Langweid >train station building. > >With this mail I'd like to find out how many people are actually >interested to >participate, and their probabilities of attendance (in percent). > >Langweid is by train 15 minutes from Augsburg, or one hour from München >central >station. There are some hotels/pensions in Langweid, and more in >Augsburg or one >of the villages nearby (reachable by train or bus). > >I could make two or three presentations about what I'm working on >currently, >anybody else is welcome to do the same, and/or we could make a general >PicoLisp >workshop. > >One of the oldest PicoLisp customers (since 2002, also the one with the >largest >user base) is about 3 km from Langweid, and I have a probable OK that >some >interested conference attendees might join to visit them. > >Let's discuss further details here in the list, or perhaps in the wiki >at >picolisp.com. > > >I wish peaceful days and a good start into 2020 for all of you! > >☺/ A!ex > >-- >UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe -- You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it. Scott McNealy 1999
35C3
Are any picolispers at 35C3? See https://events.ccc.de/congress/2018/wiki/index.php/Main_Page for details. If so I would like to meet. Best Regards, Alexander -- Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Gerät mit K-9 Mail gesendet.
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