Re: virtual package "video-player"?
Quoting IOhannes m zmölnig (Debian/GNU) (2017-11-13 21:50:32) > thanks jonas for the reply, > > On 11/13/2017 08:59 PM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > > Quoting IOhannes m zmölnig (Debian/GNU) (2017-11-13 19:59:28) > >> > >> a good name might be "video-player" or "desktop-video-player" (i'd > >> favour the first). > >> > >> > >> what do you think? > >> if we can come to a consensus, i'd propose this on debian-devel. > > > > To address bug#881326, fallback dependencies should be limited to tools > > not exploding in your face in a non-GUI environment, and tools using > > same syntax to play media. > > hmm, well: > in the specific case of bug#881326, it turned out that the > "Recommends:mpv" was indeed intended to mean "mpv" specifically, rather > than "a generic video player" (as i originally assumed). > so for bug#881326, the "video-player" virtual package is irrelevant anyhow. > > however, i still think being able to install "*a* video player capable > of playing my video collection" is a desirable goal. > > > Simplest approach to address issues like bug#881326 generally would > > probably be to extend package sensible-utils with a "sensible-player", > > knowledgeable about the possible players in Debian fitting the critera.> > > /etc/alternatives could be used (in addition to or instead of > > sensible-utils helper) to provide local sysadmin freedom to prioritize > > among multiple installed players. > > i personally favour a decentralized effort, where any sensible video > player can declare their usability themselves (rather than depending on > a gatekeeper (sensible-utils) to decide which one is part of that group). > (just telling; sensible-utils allows for such a decentralized workflow > anyhow) > i consider "sensible-player" a bad naming (for the thing i was > proposing), as it is too generic. Ok. Then how about doing this, for each video player package: * Package "Provides:" gui-video-player * postinst script register with update-alternatives as providing "/usr/bin/gui-video-player". Done. > in any case, i don't really buy the "not exploding in your face in a > non-GUI environment" argument, in this case. > i'm talking explicitly about an application that displays videos as > pixel data. i see little (useful) ways to not have a GUI (that is: an > X-server or the like) to display a video. Fine - that simply means that you only care about the gui case, not the non-gui-supportive case - which is fine by me - I just recommend to then include "gui" in the virtual name to make that constraint explicit. (alternative keyword is "x11" but I guess in these modern times with Wayland it might be more sensible with the more abstract "gui") > the proposal was modeled after the already existing "pdf-viewer", with > similar uses. > afaict, each "pdf-viewer" will pull in GUI (so you can actually *view* > something). > as a consequence, it is hardly ever "depended" on (mostly recommended or > suggested) - it's perfectly valid to store PDFs on your fileserver that > doesn't have a desktop; otoh, many people who install PDFs via packages > might actually want to look at them. > similarily, i suspect that most people installing software to download > movies will actually want some way to view them (and then there's a few > who don't). If you propose something as vague as "pdf-viewer" then I disagree there is a need for it. Can you elaborate on use cases? It is common in Debian to include a bunch of PDF documents in a package and then declare sloppily "needs a viewer for this stuff" without a need for triggering said viewer - but I am unaware that it is common in Debian to ship a bunch of video files needing similar package hinting. If you want to hint to _users_ that they can pick whatever, then a better approach than virtual package name is to use debtags: axi-cache search video::player interface::graphical (...and then update debtags for e.g. mpv to improve such lookups) - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
Re: virtual package "video-player"?
thanks jonas for the reply, On 11/13/2017 08:59 PM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > Quoting IOhannes m zmölnig (Debian/GNU) (2017-11-13 19:59:28) >> >> a good name might be "video-player" or "desktop-video-player" (i'd >> favour the first). >> >> >> what do you think? >> if we can come to a consensus, i'd propose this on debian-devel. > > To address bug#881326, fallback dependencies should be limited to tools > not exploding in your face in a non-GUI environment, and tools using > same syntax to play media. hmm, well: in the specific case of bug#881326, it turned out that the "Recommends:mpv" was indeed intended to mean "mpv" specifically, rather than "a generic video player" (as i originally assumed). so for bug#881326, the "video-player" virtual package is irrelevant anyhow. however, i still think being able to install "*a* video player capable of playing my video collection" is a desirable goal. > Simplest approach to address issues like bug#881326 generally would > probably be to extend package sensible-utils with a "sensible-player", > knowledgeable about the possible players in Debian fitting the critera.> > /etc/alternatives could be used (in addition to or instead of > sensible-utils helper) to provide local sysadmin freedom to prioritize > among multiple installed players. i personally favour a decentralized effort, where any sensible video player can declare their usability themselves (rather than depending on a gatekeeper (sensible-utils) to decide which one is part of that group). (just telling; sensible-utils allows for such a decentralized workflow anyhow) i consider "sensible-player" a bad naming (for the thing i was proposing), as it is too generic. in any case, i don't really buy the "not exploding in your face in a non-GUI environment" argument, in this case. i'm talking explicitly about an application that displays videos as pixel data. i see little (useful) ways to not have a GUI (that is: an X-server or the like) to display a video. the proposal was modeled after the already existing "pdf-viewer", with similar uses. afaict, each "pdf-viewer" will pull in GUI (so you can actually *view* something). as a consequence, it is hardly ever "depended" on (mostly recommended or suggested) - it's perfectly valid to store PDFs on your fileserver that doesn't have a desktop; otoh, many people who install PDFs via packages might actually want to look at them. similarily, i suspect that most people installing software to download movies will actually want some way to view them (and then there's a few who don't). > Makes sense - but possibly there is no need for distinction but we can > introduce only too new helpers: sensible-gui-player and > sensible-console-player. i see that this distinction might make some sense for certain media types (although not for video, which is what i was trying to suggest). in any case, it is of little importance (to me) to be able to open a video via a given (generic) command, rather than being able to open the file at all. and "xdg-open" usually does a good enough job for *this*. (using mimetypes strikes me as a more sensible approach) fgmards IOhannes signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
Re: virtual package "video-player"?
Quoting IOhannes m zmölnig (Debian/GNU) (2017-11-13 19:59:28) > While looking into [881326], i realized that there is no single > (virtual) package to install a desktop video player. > > i'd like to suggest the introduction of such a package that should be > provided by any general purpose standalone desktop video player that is > capable of playing "any" video format (e.g. the thing that your average > desktop user can install and which will play their video collection). > > here's a quick list of potential packages that should provide it: > - bangarang - Multimedia player with a lightweight interface for KDE > - dragonplayer - simple video player > - gmerlin - multiformat media player > - gst123 - GStreamer based command line media player > - kaffeine - versatile media player for KDE > - mplayer - movie player for Unix-like systems > - mpv - video player based on MPlayer/mplayer2 > - parole - media player based on GStreamer framework > - totem - Simple media player for the GNOME desktop based on GStreamer > - vlc - multimedia player and streamer > - gxine - the xine video player, GTK+/Gnome user interface > - xine-console - the xine video player, user interface > - xine-ui - the xine video player, user interface > > the list was assembled via a quick "apt-cache search", rather than > consulting multimedia-tasks. > > i'm mostly using vlc these days, so i don't know much about the quality > of most players in the list; so there might be some false positives; > also, it's not unlikely that i forgot your favourite player. > the list excludes specialized players (ser-player, aview) and expert > systems (xjadeo, melt) on purpose. for now, it also excludes various GUI > frontends to media-players like mplayer (assuming that having mplayer > installed is enough to play a file - either via cmdline or by > file-association) > > a good name might be "video-player" or "desktop-video-player" (i'd > favour the first). > > > what do you think? > if we can come to a consensus, i'd propose this on debian-devel. To address bug#881326, fallback dependencies should be limited to tools not exploding in your face in a non-GUI environment, and tools using same syntax to play media. Simplest approach to address issues like bug#881326 generally would probably be to extend package sensible-utils with a "sensible-player", knowledgeable about the possible players in Debian fitting the critera. /etc/alternatives could be used (in addition to or instead of sensible-utils helper) to provide local sysadmin freedom to prioritize among multiple installed players. A virtual package would not help resolve runtime decision on what tool to invoke, but tools either known by sensible-utils helper or registering themselves with a coordinated /etc/alternatives name could additionally declare themselves as providing that common name - either is-intended-for-GUI-use or should-survive-console-use.. mpv is usable for both, but seems xine-console is sensible only for the latter (but I don't know, just judge from reading its description).. > oh, and while being there i was also thinking about a virtual package > "music-player" (for playing your music collection of OGG, MP3, FLAC, > WAV,... files). (i don't have a special need for that right now; it > just occured to me to be useful). Makes sense - but possibly there is no need for distinction but we can introduce only too new helpers: sensible-gui-player and sensible-console-player. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
virtual package "video-player"?
While looking into [881326], i realized that there is no single (virtual) package to install a desktop video player. i'd like to suggest the introduction of such a package that should be provided by any general purpose standalone desktop video player that is capable of playing "any" video format (e.g. the thing that your average desktop user can install and which will play their video collection). here's a quick list of potential packages that should provide it: - bangarang - Multimedia player with a lightweight interface for KDE - dragonplayer - simple video player - gmerlin - multiformat media player - gst123 - GStreamer based command line media player - kaffeine - versatile media player for KDE - mplayer - movie player for Unix-like systems - mpv - video player based on MPlayer/mplayer2 - parole - media player based on GStreamer framework - totem - Simple media player for the GNOME desktop based on GStreamer - vlc - multimedia player and streamer - gxine - the xine video player, GTK+/Gnome user interface - xine-console - the xine video player, user interface - xine-ui - the xine video player, user interface the list was assembled via a quick "apt-cache search", rather than consulting multimedia-tasks. i'm mostly using vlc these days, so i don't know much about the quality of most players in the list; so there might be some false positives; also, it's not unlikely that i forgot your favourite player. the list excludes specialized players (ser-player, aview) and expert systems (xjadeo, melt) on purpose. for now, it also excludes various GUI frontends to media-players like mplayer (assuming that having mplayer installed is enough to play a file - either via cmdline or by file-association) a good name might be "video-player" or "desktop-video-player" (i'd favour the first). what do you think? if we can come to a consensus, i'd propose this on debian-devel. oh, and while being there i was also thinking about a virtual package "music-player" (for playing your music collection of OGG, MP3, FLAC, WAV,... files). (i don't have a special need for that right now; it just occured to me to be useful). gfmdsa IOhannes [881326] https://bugs.debian.org/881326 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ pkg-multimedia-maintainers mailing list pkg-multimedia-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-multimedia-maintainers
