Bug#884595: kernel recognizes keyboards and mice as joysticks

[Markus Koschany]

Am 19.12.2017 um 20:26 schrieb Stephen Kitt:
> On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 23:15:02 +0100, Markus Koschany  wrote:
>> Am 18.12.2017 um 22:59 schrieb Stephen Kitt:
>>> On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 17:55:21 +0100, Markus Koschany 
>>> wrote:  
 Preliminary work is already available at:

 https://github.com/denilsonsa/udev-joystick-blacklist

 If the udev maintainers don't want to create and maintain such a
 blacklist, then please mark this bug report as "wontfix" accordingly.
 Please don't reassign it back to affected games and applications.
 Whether I or someone else wants to provide a patch should not be the
 criterion for bug assignment.  
>>>
>>> ... and the joystick package includes the blacklist linked above.
>>> Installing that should fix many of this issues.
>>
>> Alas the joystick package is only optional while udev is priority
>> important. It is rather unlikely that someone will have it installed
>> already. The issue is that those people would not even think about a
>> joystick, they just assume the game/application is broken. It's rather
>> strange to recommend the installation of joystick when you want to play
>> a game without one. This issue should be solved in packages which are
>> guaranteed to be installed on a default desktop computer like udev.
> 
> I’m not claiming it’s the perfect solution, I’m just saying it’s one way for
> users affected by this to fix it (note I didn’t close the bug).

Yeah, I can tell you and Michael apart. My point is that our users won't
make the connection between the game ("controls don't work, it is
broken!), the kernel and some udev rules in your joystick package. You
must explicitly tell them to install it and only very few of them file
bug report anyways.

> The fix is
> available in stable right now, they don’t have to wait for a putative future
> ideal fix. (I think this should be fixed in the kernel, and I know some
> people working on it...)

Sure. This is better than nothing but the kernel issues were reported
six years ago. With a bit of good will we could have already mitigated
this for a large number of users.




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Bug#884595: kernel recognizes keyboards and mice as joysticks

[Stephen Kitt]

On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 23:15:02 +0100, Markus Koschany  wrote:
> Am 18.12.2017 um 22:59 schrieb Stephen Kitt:
> > On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 17:55:21 +0100, Markus Koschany 
> > wrote:  
> >> Preliminary work is already available at:
> >>
> >> https://github.com/denilsonsa/udev-joystick-blacklist
> >>
> >> If the udev maintainers don't want to create and maintain such a
> >> blacklist, then please mark this bug report as "wontfix" accordingly.
> >> Please don't reassign it back to affected games and applications.
> >> Whether I or someone else wants to provide a patch should not be the
> >> criterion for bug assignment.  
> > 
> > ... and the joystick package includes the blacklist linked above.
> > Installing that should fix many of this issues.
> 
> Alas the joystick package is only optional while udev is priority
> important. It is rather unlikely that someone will have it installed
> already. The issue is that those people would not even think about a
> joystick, they just assume the game/application is broken. It's rather
> strange to recommend the installation of joystick when you want to play
> a game without one. This issue should be solved in packages which are
> guaranteed to be installed on a default desktop computer like udev.

I’m not claiming it’s the perfect solution, I’m just saying it’s one way for
users affected by this to fix it (note I didn’t close the bug). The fix is
available in stable right now, they don’t have to wait for a putative future
ideal fix. (I think this should be fixed in the kernel, and I know some
people working on it...)

Regards,

Stephen


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Bug#884595: kernel recognizes keyboards and mice as joysticks

[Markus Koschany]

Am 18.12.2017 um 22:59 schrieb Stephen Kitt:
> On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 17:55:21 +0100, Markus Koschany  wrote:
>> Preliminary work is already available at:
>>
>> https://github.com/denilsonsa/udev-joystick-blacklist
>>
>> If the udev maintainers don't want to create and maintain such a
>> blacklist, then please mark this bug report as "wontfix" accordingly.
>> Please don't reassign it back to affected games and applications.
>> Whether I or someone else wants to provide a patch should not be the
>> criterion for bug assignment.
> 
> ... and the joystick package includes the blacklist linked above. Installing
> that should fix many of this issues.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Stephen

Alas the joystick package is only optional while udev is priority
important. It is rather unlikely that someone will have it installed
already. The issue is that those people would not even think about a
joystick, they just assume the game/application is broken. It's rather
strange to recommend the installation of joystick when you want to play
a game without one. This issue should be solved in packages which are
guaranteed to be installed on a default desktop computer like udev.




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Bug#884595: kernel recognizes keyboards and mice as joysticks

[Stephen Kitt]

On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 17:55:21 +0100, Markus Koschany  wrote:
> Preliminary work is already available at:
> 
> https://github.com/denilsonsa/udev-joystick-blacklist
> 
> If the udev maintainers don't want to create and maintain such a
> blacklist, then please mark this bug report as "wontfix" accordingly.
> Please don't reassign it back to affected games and applications.
> Whether I or someone else wants to provide a patch should not be the
> criterion for bug assignment.

... and the joystick package includes the blacklist linked above. Installing
that should fix many of this issues.

Regards,

Stephen


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Bug#884595: kernel recognizes keyboards and mice as joysticks

[Markus Koschany]

Am 18.12.2017 um 18:28 schrieb Michael Biebl:
> Am 18.12.2017 um 17:55 schrieb Markus Koschany:
>> retitle 884595 udev: consider blacklisting fake joystick devices
>> reassign 884595 udev
>> clone 884595 -1
>> reassign -1 src:linux
>> retitle -1 kernel recognizes keyboards and mice as joysticks
>> thanks
>>
>> Am 18.12.2017 um 00:33 schrieb Michael Biebl:
>>> Control: reassign -1 powermanga
>>>
>>> Am 17.12.2017 um 23:24 schrieb Markus Koschany:
 Am 17.12.2017 um 23:02 schrieb Michael Biebl:
 [...]
> I don't have access to such a device, but it looks like this device node
> /dev/input/js0 is created by the kernel.
> Please elaborate why this is supposed to be a bug in udev.

 I'm not familiar with udev and I would have expected that the device
 manager is responsible for creating or handling device nodes. This could
 also be a bug in the kernel. We have received similar bug reports [1]
 [2] for games in the past.

 In #714399 [3] Peter De Wachter pointed out that it might be a
 longstanding kernel bug, reported as:

 https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=28912
 https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37982

 But there is also a way to work around this issue by blacklisting such
 devices with udev rules:

 https://github.com/denilsonsa/udev-joystick-blacklist

 I'm not sure if someone ever intends to fix these kernel bugs. If udev
 is not responsible for creating those fake joystick devices for
 keyboards and mice, then please consider to blacklist the affected
 devices, so that they will not be confused with joysticks.
>>>
>>> I'm reassigning this back to powermanga. the udev package is not a
>>> proper place for such a blacklist. I'll let you decide if you want to
>>> reassign this bug to the kernel or if you want to provide such a
>>> blacklist on your own.
>>
>> Michael what point does it serve to reassign this bug back to
>> powermanga? I explained to you that keyboards and mice are recognized as
>> joysticks and powermanga is surely not responsible for creating device
>> nodes. All games and applications with joystick support are affected.
>>
>> I am going to clone this bug report and reassign it to src:linux and
>> reassign 884595 back to udev.
>>
>> Reasoning for reassignment:
>>
>> The kernel is responsible for creating device nodes. Various keyboard
>> and mouse models are detected as joysticks though. This makes several
>> games hard or even impossible to control because the application code
>> assumes a joystick is a joystick and not a keyboard or a mouse.
>>
>> There are two longstanding kernel bugs which describe the same issue for
>> two devices:
>>
>> https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=28912
>> https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37982
>>
>> Here are two more Debian bug reports which describe the same issue
>>
>> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=711350
>> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=714401
>>
>> The issue is still reproducible with the latest kernel in Sid.
>>
>> If this bug cannot be fixed in time for the next stable release aka
>> Buster then I would like to see that the udev maintainers create a
>> blacklist for such keyboards and mice.
>>
>> Preliminary work is already available at:
>>
>> https://github.com/denilsonsa/udev-joystick-blacklist
>>
>> If the udev maintainers don't want to create and maintain such a
>> blacklist, then please mark this bug report as "wontfix" accordingly.
>> Please don't reassign it back to affected games and applications.
>> Whether I or someone else wants to provide a patch should not be the
>> criterion for bug assignment.
>>
> 
> And you reassigned it back even though I explained that udev is not the
> proper place to maintain such a blacklist.
> 
> I'm thus going to close this bug report

This is extremely unhelpful. I wonder what you consider a "proper place"
for a udev blacklist if not udev itself. Just closing a valid bug report
is a poor decision.

Then please also close

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=711350
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=714401





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