Re: KDE Discover binary & library names

[Aleix Pol]

On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 9:11 PM, Ivan Čukić  wrote:
> We are heading towards the Plasma Software Compilation :)
>
> One benefit of using Plasma 'everywhere' is that people will start
> seeing the name Plasma more often and maybe speed up the
> KDE-as-in-desktop -> Plasma transition.
>
>> if you were running a Gnome or other desktop variant of your distro
>
> Yes, this is one of the definitions that I'm considering valid (with
> the second one being 'plasma is only plasma shell and plasma
> library').
>
> The problem is that it is not easy to decide whether it fits - there
> will always be at least one non-plasma user who uses an application
> from our community (something like this was posted as an argument for
> spectacle not being called something generic like plasma-screenshot or
> similar). Objectively, how many non-plasma users use dolphin,
> spectacle, ktp, etc.?
>
> BTW, did anyone make an inquiry about whether the discover might be
> useful to lxqt people?

No, but it's not about that. The question is: Would you target LXQt as
your valid personas?

Example 1: We have a plasmoid category in Discover, it's useless in
LXQt and it probably shouldn't show there. Should we consider it a
problem?
Example 2: Should we figure out an alternative to the updates
notifications plasmoid for LXQt?

As a maintainer, I say no. Because it's just not my goal, I think that
being part of Plasma makes it a more appealing product.

Furthermore, Plasma should find ways to better integrate and rely on
Discover to offer resources to its users, which was _the_ reason to
move Discover into Plasma in the first place.

The fact that our stuff can be useful elsewhere shouldn't blur our goals.

Regards,
Aleix
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Re: KDE Discover binary & library names

[Ivan Čukić]

> As a maintainer, I say no. Because it's just not my goal, I think that
> being part of Plasma makes it a more appealing product.

Ok, got you :)
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Re: KDE Discover binary & library names

[Matthias Klumpp]

2016-01-11 16:34 GMT+01:00 Ivan Čukić :
>> As a maintainer, I say no. Because it's just not my goal, I think that
>> being part of Plasma makes it a more appealing product.
>
> Ok, got you :)

GNOME-Software supports "profiles" for other desktop environments,
which mostly means that it stops preferring GNOME apps over other apps
in search results.
One could also implement slight variations in functionality in
Discover, depending on the detected DE, to make it possible for other
DEs to use Discover (e.g. not show Plasmoids on LXQt).
The primary goal should be designing for Plasma though, with any other
functionality not interfering with that goal - I fully agree with
Aleix on that :-)

Cheers,
Matthias
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Re: KDE Discover binary & library names

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Fri, Jan 08, 2016 at 07:08:40PM +0100, Ivan Čukić wrote:
> While I'm not against the name plasma-discover, I think that we are
> starting to use the term plasma in far too many places - wherever we
> used to use KDE.

My definition of what I'd be happy to include in a release is stuff that you'd 
install in a KDE Plasma distro variant but wouldn't if you were running a Gnome 
or other desktop variant of your distro.  In that regard Discover fits in 
because increasingly other desktops come with their own package managers such 
as Gnome Software.  So a name of plasma-discover would do nicely.

Jonathan
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Re: KDE Discover binary & library names

[Ivan Čukić]

We are heading towards the Plasma Software Compilation :)

One benefit of using Plasma 'everywhere' is that people will start
seeing the name Plasma more often and maybe speed up the
KDE-as-in-desktop -> Plasma transition.

> if you were running a Gnome or other desktop variant of your distro

Yes, this is one of the definitions that I'm considering valid (with
the second one being 'plasma is only plasma shell and plasma
library').

The problem is that it is not easy to decide whether it fits - there
will always be at least one non-plasma user who uses an application
from our community (something like this was posted as an argument for
spectacle not being called something generic like plasma-screenshot or
similar). Objectively, how many non-plasma users use dolphin,
spectacle, ktp, etc.?

BTW, did anyone make an inquiry about whether the discover might be
useful to lxqt people?

Cheers,
Ivan

--
KDE, ivan.cu...@kde.org, http://cukic.co/
gpg key id: 850B6F76
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Re: KDE Discover binary & library names

[Ivan Čukić]

Hi all,

While I'm not against the name plasma-discover, I think that we are
starting to use the term plasma in far too many places - wherever we
used to use KDE.

Cheers,
Ivan

KDE, ivan.cu...@kde.org, http://cukic.co/
gpg key id: 850B6F76
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Re: KDE Discover binary & library names

[Aleix Pol]

On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Ivan Čukić  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> While I'm not against the name plasma-discover, I think that we are
> starting to use the term plasma in far too many places - wherever we
> used to use KDE.

Well, isn't Plasma what the Kool Desktop Environment used to be?
Modulo the things that didn't belong to a Desktop Environment in the
fist place and pushed us for a rebranding.

Aleix
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Re: KDE Discover binary & library names

[Marco Martin]

On Friday 08 January 2016 21:23:27 Aleix Pol wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Ivan Čukić  wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > While I'm not against the name plasma-discover, I think that we are
> > starting to use the term plasma in far too many places - wherever we
> > used to use KDE.
> 
> Well, isn't Plasma what the Kool Desktop Environment used to be?
> Modulo the things that didn't belong to a Desktop Environment in the
> fist place and pushed us for a rebranding.

depends if we pose plasma as strictly the workspace and where the line is 
drawn.
note I don't really have opinions about this, should be whatever way makes 
more sense on a marketing perspective, which i have no idea :p

-- 
Marco Martin
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Re: KDE Discover binary & library names

[Aleix Pol]

On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 5:59 PM, Matthias Klumpp <matth...@tenstral.net> wrote:
> Hi everyone!
> I'd like to start some discussion about the name of the KDE Discover
> binary/library names (not about the name of the thing itself).
> Reason is that the current library and binary names have a few issues.
> At time, Discover publishes a "libdiscover" shared library in a public
> path, and a "muon-discover" binary.
> Keeping the name "muon" in the binary name is IMHO not that great,
> since Muon and Discover are separate products now.
> So renaming the binary to just "discover" might sound like a good
> idea, but at least for us in Debian this will cause some severe
> problems: We already have a package using the "discover" binary name:
> https://packages.debian.org/sid/discover
> It's in /sbin, but having the same binary name in /usr/bin and /sbin
> is generally a bad idea, if it's for completely different tools.
> For the library name - libdiscover - we currently have the same
> problem: https://packages.debian.org/sid/libdiscover2
>
> So, possible solutions would be, for the binary:
>  1) Keep the name "muon-discover", although there is no connection to
> Muon anymore
>  2) Use "plasma-discover"
>  3) Use "kde-discover"
>  4) Use "kdiscover"
>  5) ${ANY_OTHER_NAME}
>
> For the library:
>  A) Keep the name and make it a private library, by moving it out of
> /usr/lib and into e.g. /usr/lib/kde-discover. This would make the lib
> only accessible to Discover itself, other tools wouldn't find it.
>
>  B) Change the name to something like "libkdiscover"
>  C) ${ANY_OTHER:NAME}
>
> Keep in mind that this is only about binary and library names (and
> probably the name of the release tarball?), the name of the
> application remains what it is.
> Aleix and I briefly discussed this on a few occasions last year, but
> would like some feedback from more people on it.

Should we rename it to "plasma-discover" then?

Some +1 from Plasma maintainers? :D

Regards,
Aleix
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Re: KDE Discover binary & library names

[Martin Klapetek]

On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 9:41 AM, Aleix Pol  wrote:

>
> Should we rename it to "plasma-discover" then?
>
> Some +1 from Plasma maintainers? :D
>

+1

Cheers
-- 
Martin Klapetek | KDE Developer
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Re: KDE Discover binary & library names

[Jonathan Riddell]

On Thu, Jan 07, 2016 at 05:59:50PM +0100, Matthias Klumpp wrote:
> So, possible solutions would be, for the binary:
>  1) Keep the name "muon-discover", although there is no connection to
> Muon anymore
>  2) Use "plasma-discover"
>  3) Use "kde-discover"
>  4) Use "kdiscover"
>  5) ${ANY_OTHER_NAME}

Not 4! Please anything but 4! :)

> For the library:
>  A) Keep the name and make it a private library, by moving it out of
> /usr/lib and into e.g. /usr/lib/kde-discover. This would make the lib
> only accessible to Discover itself, other tools wouldn't find it.
> 
>  B) Change the name to something like "libkdiscover"
>  C) ${ANY_OTHER:NAME}

Oh dear gods not B!

> Keep in mind that this is only about binary and library names (and
> probably the name of the release tarball?), the name of the
> application remains what it is.
> Aleix and I briefly discussed this on a few occasions last year, but
> would like some feedback from more people on it.

Thanks for bringing this up, I'm fine with any of 1,2 or 3 and would sync the 
tar to follow that.

Jonathan
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