Re: Proposal: move Klipper | Plasma Applet bugs into Plasmashell product

[Nate Graham]

On 4/12/21 12:57 PM, Ben Cooksley wrote:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2021, 6:04 am Nate Graham, Thanks for the explanation. Can I ask you to do your magic to silently

move all bugs in the Klipper product to the Plasmashell | Clipboard
component? Looks like it's about 100 bugs.


We certainly can look into getting that actioned.

Can you please file a ticket for this?

Given how recent this thread is I'd also like to see a little bit more 
time given to allow for those who might have been away over the last 
12-24 hours a chance to respond.


https://phabricator.kde.org/T14360

Nate

Re: Proposal: move Klipper | Plasma Applet bugs into Plasmashell product

[Ben Cooksley]

On Tue, 13 Apr 2021, 6:04 am Nate Graham,  wrote:

> On 4/12/21 11:56 AM, Ben Cooksley wrote:
> > There isn't an exact threshold.
> >
> > The issue is that email providers (such as Google, Outlook.com -
> > Microsoft, Yahoo and GMX) keep track of email servers sending patterns.
> > Should we deviate from these patterns, then their systems will
> > automatically impose restrictions - including at times totally refusing
> > to accept further email.
> >
> > It can also impact on decisions made by their spam filters, which can
> > lead to legitimate email going to spam folders and therefore being
> > missed by people. Depending on the age of the bug, it may also lead to
> > people marking email as spam - which will have an negative impact on the
> > reputation metrics they maintain, and increase the long term risk of
> > email going to the spam folder.
> >
> > This impacts on much more than just Bugzilla, as all KDE.org
> > "transactional" email is sent through one server - so a block against
> > Bugzilla will also block email from Identity, Gitlab and Phabricator
> > among others.
> >
> > It also has spillover implications to our mailing lists (which use a
> > separate server for handling their email) as all actions that take place
> > on Bugzilla lead to an email being sent to the kde-bugs-d...@kde.org
> >  mailing list. Consequently, it will also
> > knock out delivery for those providers used by people subscribed to that
> > list.
> >
> > When we have had these incidents in the past it has sometimes taken
> > several days for the mail queue to drain for all of the involved
> > providers and for email delivery behaviour to totally return to normal.
> > This was very frustrating for the affected contributors at the time, and
> > there was nothing we could do for them except wait - and is therefore
> > something we should avoid.
>
> Thanks for the explanation. Can I ask you to do your magic to silently
> move all bugs in the Klipper product to the Plasmashell | Clipboard
> component? Looks like it's about 100 bugs.
>

We certainly can look into getting that actioned.

Can you please file a ticket for this?

Given how recent this thread is I'd also like to see a little bit more time
given to allow for those who might have been away over the last 12-24 hours
a chance to respond.

Cheers,
Ben


> Nate
>

Re: Proposal: move Klipper | Plasma Applet bugs into Plasmashell product

[Nate Graham]

On 4/12/21 11:56 AM, Ben Cooksley wrote:

There isn't an exact threshold.

The issue is that email providers (such as Google, Outlook.com - 
Microsoft, Yahoo and GMX) keep track of email servers sending patterns.
Should we deviate from these patterns, then their systems will 
automatically impose restrictions - including at times totally refusing 
to accept further email.


It can also impact on decisions made by their spam filters, which can 
lead to legitimate email going to spam folders and therefore being 
missed by people. Depending on the age of the bug, it may also lead to 
people marking email as spam - which will have an negative impact on the 
reputation metrics they maintain, and increase the long term risk of 
email going to the spam folder.


This impacts on much more than just Bugzilla, as all KDE.org 
"transactional" email is sent through one server - so a block against 
Bugzilla will also block email from Identity, Gitlab and Phabricator 
among others.


It also has spillover implications to our mailing lists (which use a 
separate server for handling their email) as all actions that take place 
on Bugzilla lead to an email being sent to the kde-bugs-d...@kde.org 
 mailing list. Consequently, it will also 
knock out delivery for those providers used by people subscribed to that 
list.


When we have had these incidents in the past it has sometimes taken 
several days for the mail queue to drain for all of the involved 
providers and for email delivery behaviour to totally return to normal. 
This was very frustrating for the affected contributors at the time, and 
there was nothing we could do for them except wait - and is therefore 
something we should avoid.


Thanks for the explanation. Can I ask you to do your magic to silently 
move all bugs in the Klipper product to the Plasmashell | Clipboard 
component? Looks like it's about 100 bugs.


Nate

Re: Proposal: move Klipper | Plasma Applet bugs into Plasmashell product

[Ben Cooksley]

On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 4:01 AM David Edmundson 
wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 4:21 PM Nate Graham  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On 4/12/21 9:15 AM, David Edmundson wrote:
> > > No objections.
> > >
> > > Be sure to CC sysadmins before doing bulk moves.
> >
> > Saying what? Also what qualifies as bulk?
>
> Please move Product blah to blah.
> They have some secret bugzilla that doesn't send 150 emails.
>
> > Also what qualifies as bulk?
>
> I know we get told off if we send too many, I don't know the precise
> threshold.
> I haven't wanted to test and find out!
>

There isn't an exact threshold.

The issue is that email providers (such as Google, Outlook.com - Microsoft,
Yahoo and GMX) keep track of email servers sending patterns.
Should we deviate from these patterns, then their systems will
automatically impose restrictions - including at times totally refusing to
accept further email.

It can also impact on decisions made by their spam filters, which can lead
to legitimate email going to spam folders and therefore being missed by
people. Depending on the age of the bug, it may also lead to people marking
email as spam - which will have an negative impact on the reputation
metrics they maintain, and increase the long term risk of email going to
the spam folder.

This impacts on much more than just Bugzilla, as all KDE.org
"transactional" email is sent through one server - so a block against
Bugzilla will also block email from Identity, Gitlab and Phabricator among
others.

It also has spillover implications to our mailing lists (which use a
separate server for handling their email) as all actions that take place on
Bugzilla lead to an email being sent to the kde-bugs-d...@kde.org mailing
list. Consequently, it will also knock out delivery for those providers
used by people subscribed to that list.

When we have had these incidents in the past it has sometimes taken several
days for the mail queue to drain for all of the involved providers and for
email delivery behaviour to totally return to normal. This was very
frustrating for the affected contributors at the time, and there was
nothing we could do for them except wait - and is therefore something we
should avoid.


> David
>
> > Nate
>

Regards,
Ben

Re: Proposal: move Klipper | Plasma Applet bugs into Plasmashell product

[Harald Sitter]

On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 6:01 PM David Edmundson
 wrote:
>
> On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 4:21 PM Nate Graham  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On 4/12/21 9:15 AM, David Edmundson wrote:
> > > No objections.
> > >
> > > Be sure to CC sysadmins before doing bulk moves.
> >
> > Saying what? Also what qualifies as bulk?
>
> Please move Product blah to blah.
> They have some secret bugzilla that doesn't send 150 emails.
>
> > Also what qualifies as bulk?
>
> I know we get told off if we send too many, I don't know the precise 
> threshold.
> I haven't wanted to test and find out!

I'm sure moving ALL of anything qualifies as bulk ;)

What with being entirely avoidable noise.

Re: Proposal: move Klipper | Plasma Applet bugs into Plasmashell product

[David Edmundson]

On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 4:21 PM Nate Graham  wrote:
>
>
>
> On 4/12/21 9:15 AM, David Edmundson wrote:
> > No objections.
> >
> > Be sure to CC sysadmins before doing bulk moves.
>
> Saying what? Also what qualifies as bulk?

Please move Product blah to blah.
They have some secret bugzilla that doesn't send 150 emails.

> Also what qualifies as bulk?

I know we get told off if we send too many, I don't know the precise threshold.
I haven't wanted to test and find out!

David

> Nate

Re: Proposal: move Klipper | Plasma Applet bugs into Plasmashell product

[Nate Graham]

On 4/12/21 9:15 AM, David Edmundson wrote:

No objections.

Be sure to CC sysadmins before doing bulk moves.


Saying what? Also what qualifies as bulk?

Nate

Re: Proposal: move Klipper | Plasma Applet bugs into Plasmashell product

[David Edmundson]

No objections.

Be sure to CC sysadmins before doing bulk moves.

David

Re: Proposal: move Klipper | Plasma Applet bugs into Plasmashell product

[Nate Graham]

Ping on this. After having triaged all Klipper bugs recently, and given 
that it is basically a Plasma service now, I don't see the advantage of 
having multiple components with the product anymore, or even using a 
separate product at all. I would like to propose moving all Klipper bugs 
into a new "Clipboard" component of the Plasmashell product.


Aye or nay?

Nate


On 8/10/20 12:30 PM, Nate Graham wrote:
Then perhaps all of the bugs (not just applet bugs) could be moved into 
a new 'klipper' component within plasmashell? The distinction between 
common code and the applet itself is somewhat amorphous now because the 
applet is the only UI people see.


Nate


On 8/10/20 11:48 AM, David Edmundson wrote:
Right now the component "plasma-widget" is filled with bugs about 
common klipper code.

If we move the component to plasmashell that's not going to change.

Unless you have a new idea on making it really "applet only" we're 
ultimately just going to spread bug reports out across two places, and 
that's just making life harder for everyone.


David

Re: Proposal: move Klipper | Plasma Applet bugs into Plasmashell product

[Nate Graham]

Then perhaps all of the bugs (not just applet bugs) could be moved into 
a new 'klipper' component within plasmashell? The distinction between 
common code and the applet itself is somewhat amorphous now because the 
applet is the only UI people see.


Nate


On 8/10/20 11:48 AM, David Edmundson wrote:
Right now the component "plasma-widget" is filled with bugs about common 
klipper code.

If we move the component to plasmashell that's not going to change.

Unless you have a new idea on making it really "applet only" we're 
ultimately just going to spread bug reports out across two places, and 
that's just making life harder for everyone.


David

Re: Proposal: move Klipper | Plasma Applet bugs into Plasmashell product

[David Edmundson]

Right now the component "plasma-widget" is filled with bugs about common
klipper code.
If we move the component to plasmashell that's not going to change.

Unless you have a new idea on making it really "applet only" we're
ultimately just going to spread bug reports out across two places, and
that's just making life harder for everyone.

David

Re: Proposal: move Klipper | Plasma Applet bugs into Plasmashell product

[Aleix Pol]

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 7:04 PM Nate Graham  wrote:
>
> [Gardening team hat on]
>
> Klipper bugs currently live in the Klipper product, not as a product
> inside the Plasmashell component like other first-party
> shipped-by-default applets. As a result these bugs seem to have been
> overlooked by bug triaging efforts, because the product currently has
> 159 bugs which like they're in desperate need of triaging, marking
> dupes, etc. Also users seem to file bugs in both places which further
> confuses the situation.
>
> I would like to propose moving the applet-specific Klipper bugs into a
> new Plasmashell | Clipboard product.
>
> Any objections?

Sounds good to me. Nowadays klipper being separate from plasma is
mostly an implementation detail as it's maintained by the same team.

Aleix

Proposal: move Klipper | Plasma Applet bugs into Plasmashell product

[Nate Graham]

[Gardening team hat on]

Klipper bugs currently live in the Klipper product, not as a product 
inside the Plasmashell component like other first-party 
shipped-by-default applets. As a result these bugs seem to have been 
overlooked by bug triaging efforts, because the product currently has 
159 bugs which like they're in desperate need of triaging, marking 
dupes, etc. Also users seem to file bugs in both places which further 
confuses the situation.


I would like to propose moving the applet-specific Klipper bugs into a 
new Plasmashell | Clipboard product.


Any objections?

Nate