Re: RFC: Removing of decorations
On Wednesday, March 14, 2012 20:11:29 Martin Gräßlin wrote: > propose to only drop b2 and Plastik and keep laptop under a new name (maybe > just "lightweight" or "thin client"). I would drop Plastik due to the fact > that it is broken with compositing and I don't see anybody starting to fix > it. sounds like a good plan. i would avoid the term "lightweight" however (it implies the wrong things about oxygen ;) and perhaps use something like "simple" or "minimal". oxygen is elegant, laptop would be minimal (or similar) -- Aaron J. Seigo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Re: RFC: Removing of decorations
On Wednesday 14 March 2012 13:22:40 Aaron J. Seigo wrote: > On Sunday, March 11, 2012 11:01:11 Martin Gräßlin wrote: > > Do we have to include by default a visually outdated theme (Laptop) or an > > even broken theme (Plastik) just for thin clients? > > given that i don't want to have to answer all the problems and complaints > from our large user base of thin client installs: imho, yes. > > at the very least, pick one, clean it up a little bit if needed and drop the > rest. but not having something for thin clients at this point would be a > disasterous mistake in terms of user relations and existing user base > support. I take this as a veto from the workspace coordinator ;-) In that case I propose to only drop b2 and Plastik and keep laptop under a new name (maybe just "lightweight" or "thin client"). I would drop Plastik due to the fact that it is broken with compositing and I don't see anybody starting to fix it. For 4.10 I would like to see a new modern style for thin clients being implemented. I'll talk to Nuno. Martin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: RFC: Removing of decorations
On Mar 15, 2012 1:22 AM, "Aaron J. Seigo" wrote: > > On Sunday, March 11, 2012 11:01:11 Martin Gräßlin wrote: > > Do we have to include by default a visually outdated theme (Laptop) or an > > even broken theme (Plastik) just for thin clients? > > given that i don't want to have to answer all the problems and complaints from > our large user base of thin client installs: imho, yes. > > at the very least, pick one, clean it up a little bit if needed and drop the > rest. but not having something for thin clients at this point would be a > disasterous mistake in terms of user relations and existing user base support. It will also be a problem for those who use desktops remotely for a variety of reasons. It also helps to have a simpler style when diagnosing graphics card related problems. > > -- > Aaron J. Seigo Regards, Ben > ___ > Plasma-devel mailing list > Plasma-devel@kde.org > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel > ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: RFC: Removing of decorations
On Sunday, March 11, 2012 11:01:11 Martin Gräßlin wrote: > Do we have to include by default a visually outdated theme (Laptop) or an > even broken theme (Plastik) just for thin clients? given that i don't want to have to answer all the problems and complaints from our large user base of thin client installs: imho, yes. at the very least, pick one, clean it up a little bit if needed and drop the rest. but not having something for thin clients at this point would be a disasterous mistake in terms of user relations and existing user base support. -- Aaron J. Seigo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Re: RFC: Removing of decorations
On Monday 12 March 2012 10:54:52 Hugo Pereira Da Costa wrote: > 1. I'm all for removing the unmaintained decoration. > 2. I'm not sure about the rationale for moving oxygen's (deco) out of > kwin tree. > It is a decoration client, and therefore would best stay is in > kwin/clients. > (especially since it has to be build on top of kwin, unlike oxygen's > "libs" and oxygen's "style"). > > As for the argument "having all oxygen's code in one place". Well, that > would also require to have oxygen's widget style and oxygen's lib at the > same place. (which one ?). And you would still need a "liboxygen.so" > anyway, I think, for the code that is shared by the widget style and the > decoration. > > This to say, what would the moving actually address, solve ? > (you do need to build kwin anyway in order to build oxygen's client). I thought that Oxygen would have wanted to have all code in one place and that this has never been possible because the deco has to be inside kwin. Cheers Martin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: RFC: Removing of decorations
On 03/10/2012 07:51 AM, Martin Gräßlin wrote: Hi all, I was considering to clean up the window decorations in KWin. Currently we ship: * Oxygen (default) * Aurorae (theme engine) * b2 * laptop * Plastik At least for Plastik we know that it is currently broken with Compositing and nobody is going to fix that. All decorations except Oxygen and Aurorae have not seen any (real) commits since 2009. I consider them as bitrotting. In the past we did one decoration removal where we moved the decorations to kde-artwork. I don't think that kde-artwork should be the dumping ground for visually outdated decorations. And with git that would not be possible anyway. Another solution of the past had been to move the code to tag/unsupported which also does no longer work. So what to do? So I propose the following changes: 1. git rm b2 laptop plastik 2. move Oxygen out of the KWin source tree to have all of Oxygen in one place Hi Martin, 1. I'm all for removing the unmaintained decoration. 2. I'm not sure about the rationale for moving oxygen's (deco) out of kwin tree. It is a decoration client, and therefore would best stay is in kwin/clients. (especially since it has to be build on top of kwin, unlike oxygen's "libs" and oxygen's "style"). As for the argument "having all oxygen's code in one place". Well, that would also require to have oxygen's widget style and oxygen's lib at the same place. (which one ?). And you would still need a "liboxygen.so" anyway, I think, for the code that is shared by the widget style and the decoration. This to say, what would the moving actually address, solve ? (you do need to build kwin anyway in order to build oxygen's client). 3. rename "clients" to "decoration" as I personally find the name confusing due to the fact that there is also a Client class in KWin Deleting the old decorations will mean removing the only decorations which work well for thin clients or X forwarding. But I don't consider this an important enough use case to keep visually outdated decorations around. Any comments? Cheers Martin ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Re: Re: RFC: Removing of decorations
On Sunday, March 11, 2012 11:01:11 AM Martin Gräßlin wrote: > Personally I would prefer to see a proper thin client solution consisting of > a lightweight window decoration, a light weight widget style. At the moment > the default KDE Plasma theme is everywhere completely unsuited for the use > in thin client setups. Couldn't agree more, and I'd add that having a proper thin client support is important and that somebody should step up and work on that :) ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: Re: RFC: Removing of decorations
On Sunday 11 March 2012 09:23:46 Luca Beltrame wrote: > In data sabato 10 marzo 2012 07:51:37, Martin Gräßlin ha scritto: > > Deleting the old decorations will mean removing the only decorations which > > work well for thin clients or X forwarding. But I don't consider this an > > The question then is: does Oxygen work realiably for thin clients / X > forwarding? If not, then IMO at least one of the two need to stay, as thin > clients are still used in setups of a certain relevance (think school labs > or something of the sort). Do we have to include by default a visually outdated theme (Laptop) or an even broken theme (Plastik) just for thin clients? Is this the primary target group of our user base? Is it acceptable to ship by default an additional theme which puts KDE into a bad light by most users just for a minor use case? We have to remember that Thin-Clients need major adjustments to the default settings. E.g. running compositing is completely unsuited for a network transparent solution. Also the Qt graphics system backend has to be changed to native. I think it is acceptable to install another window decoration from kde-artwork to get something for thin clients. Personally I would prefer to see a proper thin client solution consisting of a lightweight window decoration, a light weight widget style. At the moment the default KDE Plasma theme is everywhere completely unsuited for the use in thin client setups. Cheers Martin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
Re: RFC: Removing of decorations
In data sabato 10 marzo 2012 07:51:37, Martin Gräßlin ha scritto: > Deleting the old decorations will mean removing the only decorations which > work well for thin clients or X forwarding. But I don't consider this an The question then is: does Oxygen work realiably for thin clients / X forwarding? If not, then IMO at least one of the two need to stay, as thin clients are still used in setups of a certain relevance (think school labs or something of the sort). -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team KDE Science supporter GPG key ID: 6E1A4E79 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
RFC: Removing of decorations
Hi all, I was considering to clean up the window decorations in KWin. Currently we ship: * Oxygen (default) * Aurorae (theme engine) * b2 * laptop * Plastik At least for Plastik we know that it is currently broken with Compositing and nobody is going to fix that. All decorations except Oxygen and Aurorae have not seen any (real) commits since 2009. I consider them as bitrotting. In the past we did one decoration removal where we moved the decorations to kde-artwork. I don't think that kde-artwork should be the dumping ground for visually outdated decorations. And with git that would not be possible anyway. Another solution of the past had been to move the code to tag/unsupported which also does no longer work. So what to do? So I propose the following changes: 1. git rm b2 laptop plastik 2. move Oxygen out of the KWin source tree to have all of Oxygen in one place 3. rename "clients" to "decoration" as I personally find the name confusing due to the fact that there is also a Client class in KWin Deleting the old decorations will mean removing the only decorations which work well for thin clients or X forwarding. But I don't consider this an important enough use case to keep visually outdated decorations around. Any comments? Cheers Martin signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Plasma-devel mailing list Plasma-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/plasma-devel
